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Encounter Logging
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ZOS_RogerJ✭✭✭✭Just a friendly reminder to keep the thread on-topic, constructive, and civil. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
(Tagging @Joy_Division too just so I don’t have to reply twice)
I personally don’t care either way because I have a thick skin.
That drama though was just hard to live down - since hardly anyone remembered me at the time you know?
Also *I* could not have used the thing, because *I* wasn’t even in the group referenced in my post. How would I even?
I went to sign up for something and said I was just back from EU and had to log over to grab my achs and he was all blah blah from EU is the new meme yeah sure you are you used BOL on Mage execute or something (I was removed from roster within 5 mins!) and basically just screwed me right there. Because people in this game, some of them, are toxic no life people who cannot handle reality.
And yeah you do not need to ‘sell it’ to me - I’m already FOR it.
I was just saying that I think people will ****absolutely use it to troll and be toxic to people**** no matter how pretty people try to make it sound.Edited by IzzyStardust on May 3, 2019 5:54PM3 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.1 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.2 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
Where's the problem to see the @name if someone on purpose activated it?Noobplar0 -
muh✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
You do understand that the two snippets are with different states of the "Appear Anonymously" setting, do you?
Are you actually complaining that someone that specifically opts into sharing their name has their name in log files while everyone else doesn't?
If you don't go into the setttings and change the state of the "Appear Anonymously" option to be "OFF" your name does not appear in log files.
Edited by muh on May 4, 2019 10:22AM2 -
muh✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.
If logging would've been around back then you probably could've flashed any other log with you not using BoL on the mage.1 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
You do understand that the two snippets are with different states of the "Appear Anonymously" setting, do you?
Are you actually complaining that someone that specifically opts into sharing their name has their name in log files while everyone else doesn't?
If you don't go into the setttings and change the state of the "Appear Anonymously" option to be "OFF" your name does not appear in log files.
I understand that, thank you, I'm not an idiot, even if you want to think I am. However you should understand too that the current state was not the default when ZOS introduced this feature first; and even if I am toggling on the logging, I really don't like the idea that I will appear in logs I'm not actively participated (for example during a dolmen/geyser/dragon). For example if I want to measure my own performance, but I want to do it somewhere public (public dungeon, delve, dolmen), my name will appear in the logs of the players who are there and are logging; any my own log will contain the @name of the people who are there and enabled this feature. What do you think, will it be an easy method to collect @names for in-game spamming or for any reason? Am I the only one who thought about that?Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
Where's the problem to see the @name if someone on purpose activated it?
The player activated it to make an update to ESOLogs, to analyze their performance. I'm definitely not interested to know every people's name who was in my vicinity during my fights. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to use the feature for more malicious intents.3 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzzyStardust wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.
If logging would've been around back then you probably could've flashed any other log with you not using BoL on the mage.
Maybe so xD0 -
pema✭✭✭the info in the log is very very eleborate. And it can serve a purpose.
I wish there was an opt out option, or when you log a fight people have to concent or it won't log.
Even being anonimous it's totaly trackable, it shows your gear, skills, skillpoints etc. That's so easy to trace back....
This can be usefull but also the poisonous apple, were it will be used against people so please make it so we know when we're recorded and have influence on it.6 -
muh✭✭✭
Right, so why does the previous default matter again?Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
You do understand that the two snippets are with different states of the "Appear Anonymously" setting, do you?
Are you actually complaining that someone that specifically opts into sharing their name has their name in log files while everyone else doesn't?
If you don't go into the setttings and change the state of the "Appear Anonymously" option to be "OFF" your name does not appear in log files.
I understand that, thank you, I'm not an idiot, even if you want to think I am. However you should understand too that the current state was not the default when ZOS introduced this feature first; and even if I am toggling on the logging, I really don't like the idea that I will appear in logs I'm not actively participated (for example during a dolmen/geyser/dragon). For example if I want to measure my own performance, but I want to do it somewhere public (public dungeon, delve, dolmen), my name will appear in the logs of the players who are there and are logging; any my own log will contain the @name of the people who are there and enabled this feature. What do you think, will it be an easy method to collect @names for in-game spamming or for any reason? Am I the only one who thought about that?
Do I correctly understand that you would want to log dolmen/geyser/dragons, so you can't set yourself to appear anonymous in those situations?
If not, you already have full control over when you're sharing your name or not via the setting. No one prevents you to only share your name when you actually want to.
Everyone has the option to either not care and share their name 24/7, not share their name at all, or just share it when they actually want to. Right?
I don't think it will be an easy method to collect @names, most people will not even know that they have the option to share their @name or that this feature exists until they maybe join a more endgame raiding focused guild. So the likelihood that someone collecting names that way will actually get a @name out of it is miniscule.
And there are already much easier methods to collect way more @names, no addon required.Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »
I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
Where's the problem to see the @name if someone on purpose activated it?
The player activated it to make an update to ESOLogs, to analyze their performance. I'm definitely not interested to know every people's name who was in my vicinity during my fights. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to use the feature for more malicious intents.
Now if someone would actually use it to collect @names and harass people... For starters they can't be very smart and it could actually be quite entertaining for you. But if not, you can just report and block them and be done with it. Why even bother with them? If someone annoys you, you don't have to suffer their nonsense if you don't want to.1 -
The_White_HawkSoul ShrivenI want to share my opinion on the encounter log:
I think that people should have 3 sharing options available: On/Anonymous/Off
This is because of a few reasons:
- Not everyone likes to be monitored by others
- The opportunity for people who are willing to do wrong is just there with only an On/Anonymous option. (Pointing fingers at people who are not doing enough DPS, lack Buff up times or die too much.)
- In PvP I think that the load-out and the skills should not be shared. Because some people spent a lot of time figuring out builds to kill the enemy and the thing about war/PvP is having that edge over your enemy. So I think it is unfair and unethical for other players to see your load-out in PvP.
It would be good if you get a message if someone in your group is recording/logging. Just so you are aware that you are being monitored.
Do not get me wrong, I think that it has a lot of good potential and can help with perfecting/improving things.
However, there is a lot of potential for misuse and may cause a lot of agitation amongst casual players.
So the idea is good, but there need to be substantial changes/additions before it gets released. An additional off setting being the most important one.5 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the info in the log is very very eleborate. And it can serve a purpose.
I wish there was an opt out option, or when you log a fight people have to concent or it won't log.
Even being anonimous it's totaly trackable, it shows your gear, skills, skillpoints etc. That's so easy to trace back....
This can be usefull but also the poisonous apple, were it will be used against people so please make it so we know when we're recorded and have influence on it.
It's easier to take a picture or screenshot of the group menu than delving into all the data.0 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzzyStardust wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.
If logging would've been around back then you probably could've flashed any other log with you not using BoL on the mage.
Yeah maybe so....I was just trying to see the other side I guess - I personally don’t mind the log; I do wish the display site was ZOS though, not a 3rd party.1 -
DarkerDreams✭✭✭Please, at least disable this in PvP zones. It's crazy that someone can just look and see not only everything I did, but also all the abilities on my bar and all the gear I'm using. That's ridiculous. I should at least be able to hide what I'm using from other players. Not to mention there is enough lag in PvP as it is. Can't imagine this will help any.Edited by DarkerDreams on May 7, 2019 1:06PM3 -
Kihra✭✭✭DarkerDreams wrote: »Please, at least disable this in PvP zones. It's crazy that someone can just look and see not only everything I did, but also all the abilities on my bar and all the gear I'm using. That's ridiculous. I should at least be able to hide what I'm using from other players. Not to mention there is enough lag in PvP as it is. Can't imagine this will help any.
Bar abilities and equipped gear are restricted to group members only.
1 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭Dragonnord wrote: »What about the players that want NO stuff/stats of them logged/saved anywhere when going to trials or so?
I refuse to play Mario kart any more, as the people I race against can see my lap times.3 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭Such drama over this tool. Now that it's Live have a look at the currently uploaded dungeon runs on the web site. I have yet to see one that shows anyone's name except the player doing the logging. Anonymous is all I see.
Anyone that goes out of their way to use this tool to harass others is a total numbskull and should be reported for harassment.0 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »Such drama over this tool. Now that it's Live have a look at the currently uploaded dungeon runs on the web site. I have yet to see one that shows anyone's name except the player doing the logging. Anonymous is all I see.
Anyone that goes out of their way to use this tool to harass others is a total numbskull and should be reported for harassment.
Because ZOS has changed the default setting. Originally the data collecting was enabled for everyone, but they changed it to Anonymous.4 -
TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭this tool is awesome, too bad i cant manage to get it to work... is there somewhere a step by step description how to set it up? for some reason it doesnt record logs for me :-(0
-
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1. You need to download the uploader from the esologs website.
2. You should also create an account there.
3. In the game, you need to type /encounterlogs to start logging.
4. After the fight, type /encounterlog again to stop logging.
5. Use the uploader to upload the log (it's in \Elder Scrolls Online\live\logs) to the site.
6. Try to find out what the hell to do with the data.
2 -
TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭1. You need to download the uploader from the esologs website.
2. You should also create an account there.
3. In the game, you need to type /encounterlogs to start logging.
4. After the fight, type /encounterlog again to stop logging.
5. Use the uploader to upload the log (it's in \Elder Scrolls Online\live\logs) to the site.
6. Try to find out what the hell to do with the data.
omg i didn't know you had to type "/encounterlogs" in game.. where does that stand? jebuz.. thanks a lot !
..actually thought you have to record by using the "Live Log" option in the Logs Updater.....0 -
Tevalaur✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."┌───────────────────────────────┐Author of Sunshine Daydream's Guide to Crafting└───────────────────────────────┘Is Uncle John's band calling you? Do you daydream about Sugar Magnolias? Is your favorite sunflower a China Cat? Tired of Truckin' alone to Terrapin Station? If so, share some Space with other hippies & deadheads in the guild Sunshine Daydream! Send a message in game (PC-NA) to Kaibeth for your invitation.3 -
DyingIsEasy✭✭✭ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."
I agree. ZOS should re-enable all the features of the addon API.0 -
Tevalaur✭✭✭✭✭DyingIsEasy wrote: »ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."
I agree. ZOS should re-enable all the features of the addon API.
If that feature is disabled then the website shouldn't be talking about it being available. If it's not disabled then ZOS is losing trust. I would like some clarification from an official rep, please.┌───────────────────────────────┐Author of Sunshine Daydream's Guide to Crafting└───────────────────────────────┘Is Uncle John's band calling you? Do you daydream about Sugar Magnolias? Is your favorite sunflower a China Cat? Tired of Truckin' alone to Terrapin Station? If so, share some Space with other hippies & deadheads in the guild Sunshine Daydream! Send a message in game (PC-NA) to Kaibeth for your invitation.1 -
DyingIsEasy✭✭✭DyingIsEasy wrote: »ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."
I agree. ZOS should re-enable all the features of the addon API.
If that feature is disabled then the website shouldn't be talking about it being available. If it's not disabled then ZOS is losing trust. I would like some clarification from an official rep, please.
You are confusing a few things here.
The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.Edited by DyingIsEasy on May 23, 2019 8:04AM0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DyingIsEasy wrote: »The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.
LoL. Define "true real time".
But you're right that they are two separate systems, and at least esolog allows for some level of anonymity - which the ESO API wouldn't allow.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on May 23, 2019 8:38AM0 -
DyingIsEasy✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DyingIsEasy wrote: »The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.
LoL. Define "true real time".
But you're right that they are two separate systems, and at least esolog allows for some level of anonymity - which the ESO API wouldn't allow.
I'm just using the same expression Bobby Weir used on page 1 to describe the system.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DyingIsEasy wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DyingIsEasy wrote: »The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.
LoL. Define "true real time".
But you're right that they are two separate systems, and at least esolog allows for some level of anonymity - which the ESO API wouldn't allow.
I'm just using the same expression Bobby Weir used on page 1 to describe the system.
Yes, I was actually LoL'ing at him more than at you :-)0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This tool is amazing! We have been using it for 2 days and already it helped us so much to figure out in trial optimization. Kudos to the maker and to ZOS for making this possible!2