hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
IzzyStardust wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.
Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
You do understand that the two snippets are with different states of the "Appear Anonymously" setting, do you?
Are you actually complaining that someone that specifically opts into sharing their name has their name in log files while everyone else doesn't?
If you don't go into the setttings and change the state of the "Appear Anonymously" option to be "OFF" your name does not appear in log files.
Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
Where's the problem to see the @name if someone on purpose activated it?
IzzyStardust wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.
If logging would've been around back then you probably could've flashed any other log with you not using BoL on the mage.
Right, so why does the previous default matter again?Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
You do understand that the two snippets are with different states of the "Appear Anonymously" setting, do you?
Are you actually complaining that someone that specifically opts into sharing their name has their name in log files while everyone else doesn't?
If you don't go into the setttings and change the state of the "Appear Anonymously" option to be "OFF" your name does not appear in log files.
I understand that, thank you, I'm not an idiot, even if you want to think I am. However you should understand too that the current state was not the default when ZOS introduced this feature first; and even if I am toggling on the logging, I really don't like the idea that I will appear in logs I'm not actively participated (for example during a dolmen/geyser/dragon). For example if I want to measure my own performance, but I want to do it somewhere public (public dungeon, delve, dolmen), my name will appear in the logs of the players who are there and are logging; any my own log will contain the @name of the people who are there and enabled this feature. What do you think, will it be an easy method to collect @names for in-game spamming or for any reason? Am I the only one who thought about that?
Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »I got you don't worry.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
But you don't get that combat data is in no way in hell personal data. And without a name attached to it, there is absolutely no way on earth to identify you out of it.
I've said it in one of those thread when it first came up already. The anonymity toggle is not for people you're playing with, it's impossible to play ESO and be anonymous in game itself.
It's meant to not share your userid/character names outside of the systems ZOS controls.
Cars are combat data, userids/character names are name plates.
And by cars we're talking about the exact same car for everyone, with absolutely no customization. Well, maybe one car per class.
Edit:
Oh and the real question is, do you only walk backwards destroying your ever so subtle footprints you leave behind in the small layer of dust and dirt that covers the streets in real life?
You seem to forget that the raw data contains your @name too, although it have to be mined to be usable - and that is personal data.
I'm sorry what?
It's honestly disgusting how much time and effort you guys put into something you have absolutely no clue how it actually works. And how little you actually care to look into it yourself. But it's so damn easy to whine and cry and mommy will surely come and give you some candy and everything will be fine.
Like really? It's sooooo damn easy to just hop on the PTS yourself and instead of spreading misinformation actually educate yourself.
Enjoy the sneak peak of my "personal data".
First 10 lines from a fresh /encounterlog each:Appear Anonymously: OFF (Character name is Ānonymous, don't be fooled)13,BEGIN_LOG,1556842381086,12,"PTS","en" 32,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 32,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,1,0,F,1,9,"Ānonymous","@muh",4954465580590543799,3,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 393,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 393,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 393,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13620/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5642,0.4792,2.6160,* 874,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,24215,20301,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4795,2.7060,* 1024,ABILITY_INFO,20299,"Sneak","/esoui/art/icons/ability_rogue_067.dds",T,T 1024,EFFECT_INFO,20299,BUFF,NONE,T 1024,EFFECT_CHANGED,FADED,1,24215,20299,1,17365/17365,14978/14978,13487/14978,0/500,0/1000,0,0.5641,0.4796,3.2640,*
Appear Anonymously: ON5,BEGIN_LOG,1556842974138,12,"PTS","en" 5,ZONE_CHANGED,1011,"Summerset",NONE 5,UNIT_ADDED,1,PLAYER,T,4,0,F,1,9,"","",0,4,810,0,PLAYER_ALLY,F 391,ABILITY_INFO,20301,"Crouch Drain","/esoui/art/icons/ability_mage_065.dds",T,T 392,MAP_CHANGED,1349,"Summerset","summerset/summerset_base" 392,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14587/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6605,0.5366,4.5749,* 1382,COMBAT_EVENT,POWER_DRAIN,GENERIC,STAMINA,133,0,27229,20301,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6607,0.5366,4.5600,* 1522,ABILITY_INFO,16037,"Light Attack","/esoui/art/icons/death_recap_melee_basic.dds",T,T 1522,BEGIN_CAST,0,F,27230,16037,1,17199/17199,14853/14853,14720/14853,500/500,0/1000,0,0.6608,0.5366,4.5593,0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0/0,0,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 1522,END_CAST,COMPLETED,27230,16037
You guys...
Edit:
Before you say "I've told you so" or some other nonsense.
The default is "Appear Anonymously: ON."
I know that they changed the default settings. However your first snippet contains your @name in the third line, and it will contain everyone else's @name who enables data collecting - even if they are not in your group. It was tested before the default changes, and I'm sure it was one of the main reason of the change.
Where's the problem to see the @name if someone on purpose activated it?
The player activated it to make an update to ESOLogs, to analyze their performance. I'm definitely not interested to know every people's name who was in my vicinity during my fights. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to use the feature for more malicious intents.
the info in the log is very very eleborate. And it can serve a purpose.
I wish there was an opt out option, or when you log a fight people have to concent or it won't log.
Even being anonimous it's totaly trackable, it shows your gear, skills, skillpoints etc. That's so easy to trace back....
This can be usefull but also the poisonous apple, were it will be used against people so please make it so we know when we're recorded and have influence on it.
IzzyStardust wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »T3hasiangod wrote: »Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@majulook
ah ok schrodinger's cat, the i "think" it would look like what was shown in the ESO live that it was previewed on but now it's something super personal that goes beyond the game.
@Bluepitbull13
I did not see the ESO Live stream. Even if I did see it, I would look at a log that I created to see what was in it.
There is literally no personal data in the logs. They displayed it on ESO Live. It is a text file with variable names and numbers corresponding to abilities, buffs, debuffs, and character names.
but schrodinger's, it can be my light attack rotation in there or a HIPAA violation with my health information
/s
I'm going to be a bit pedantic here, but to be clear, silly as it sounds (because GDPR is silly in a lot of ways), your character name (or even a random identifier) + combat data logs is almost certainly considered "personal data". The GDPR definition of personal data is anything that can be linked to an identifiable person, even if indirectly. See: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2016.119.01.0001.01.ENG#d1e1489-1-1‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;
For instance, at my company, if we transmit a GUID + clickstream over the wire to a third-party, that is considered "personal data" because in our system that GUID can be associated with an IP address or email address or other PII.
However, that does not mean that the data can't be stored, processed, analyzed, sent to other parties, etc. It just means that the user has to give explicit consent and that the data is being collected/stored/processed for a legitimate reason. You give consent when you click that obnoxious "OK" button that pops up on the cookie/data disclaimer on every website these days.
In the case of ESO, we all agree to the Privacy Policy when we first start the game or whenever said Privacy Policy changes.
That Privacy Policy specifies the types of "personal data" collected, in this case the relevant section would be:2. The Personal Data We Collect
...
G. Your Activities, Stats, Friends and Preferences. We collect usage and preference details related to your use of the Services, such as language, in-game purchases, game-play statistics, scores, persona, characters, achievements, rankings, time spent playing, click paths, game profile, preferences, friends (including friend relationships through, for example, the creation of clans) and other data that you provide to us as part of your account.
Additionally, it specifies how that data can be used and shared. Where exactly "Encounter Logging" fits into that scheme is open to interpretation but I don't think ZOS would have any trouble at all here. Of course, IANAL.3. How We Use Personal Data
...
For the performance of our agreement with you. The personal data referred to under Section 2. A, B, C, D, E, F, G and I above may be used to provide our Services to you, including to run contests, sweepstakes or other events or activities in which you participate; improve your gameplay experience; provide tailored customer services and support; matching; for billing and payment purposes; and to handle your enquiries.
...
For our legitimate commercial interests. The personal data referred to under Section 2. D, E, F, G, H and I above may be used to improve and develop our products and services; analyse the use of our Services and generate aggregate statistics about our User community; personalize your experiences (e.g., for your geographic area); send or display targeted marketing; facilitate software updates; assist in security and fraud prevention; for system integrity (preventing hacking, cheats, spamming, etc.); facilitate our business operations and maintain appropriate business records; operate company policies and procedures; facilitate our response to legal process (e.g., a court order, warrant or subpoena); enable us to merge, sell, acquire, or transfer assets; and for other legitimate business purposes permitted by applicable law.
4. How ZeniMax Shares Personal Data
ZeniMax may disclose your personal data as follows, and we will obtain your consent to do so where required by applicable law:
Service Providers and Processor. We may engage vendors, agents, service providers, and affiliated entities to provide services to us or to Users on our behalf, such as support for the internal operations of our websites, online stores (including payment processors), products (such as our games) and services (e.g., message board operations, and technical support processing), as well as related offline product support services, data storage and other services. In providing their services, they may access, receive, maintain or otherwise process personal data on our behalf. Our contracts with these service providers do not permit use of your personal data for their own marketing and other purposes.
I'll repeat, I am not a lawyer. However, my opinion is that ZOS is 100% covered in this use-case by the Privacy Policy that we all agree to based on the language therein. They are using/sharing this data to improve the gameplay experience.
Let me draw an analogy from my world. One of our lines of business involves site usage analytics. That is, you're on some website, and as you're navigating around, the site is transmitting to us (a third party) a stream of data describing your usage of the site (what links you click, how long you spend on each page, etc.). It is basically a GUID + event data (very similar what what is present in these Encounter Logs). That is considered "personal data" according to our DPO. It is also 100% fine for us to process it because the user explicitly consents to this when they agree to the Cookie Policy.
@Joy_Division @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn (or pass on as necessary)
The issue I think that most people have is the fact that through mediums like discord, it is very easy to point out and possibly denigrate players - regardless whether they are anonymous.
If you’re in a group of people the one anonymous will be easy to point out.
Word goes around on discord and to try and deny that fact is delusional at best.
I think that’s the issue most people have.
One bad day can basically ruin someone’s reputation in the blink of an eye.
Or if someone has a stink against someone else, it’s a good way to flame and bait people even if that person was never even the same time person in the group.
We all know that poo sticks together - and groups of people do gang up on other people all the time.
I even have an example myself: I’ve had my VAA HM clear and I’ve been leading VAA as a healer since 2014 and anyone I’ve raided with plus my own videos can tell you how much I complain if I see someone using BOL on execute on the Mage.
Some guy got my name crossed with someone else, started talking/spreading alll this shiz around to people on PCNA shortly after I returned from PCEU, saying I was a bad healer and used BOL in Mage execute which I never have.
His level of shittalking was so damn high and all of it behind my back, that it took me a year to show my ability enough to prove DUDE, IT WAS NOT ME.
I whispered him with ach links, videos, saying I’m sure you have me confused with someone else....nothing but more ***.
Eventually he got kicked from the same guild I quit voluntarily- and everyone was immediately whispering to tell me.
Drama.
I am 38. Past a best effort to make things clear, I don’t care.
That all said I still like the idea of this tool; I just think that the potential for abuse outside ESO and thus within it, is the issue.
Just being honest man if a person wants to *** talk you they dont need this tool, and actually using the example you provided if this tool was around you could easily call *** on his comments.
Oh and it wasn’t actually ever me he was *** talking because I wasn’t in the group full stop. I couldn’t access their log either as I wasn’t in the group.
I think he just realised he was wrong and couldn’t admit it - because he’d already talked so much *** that he was stuck with it or something *shrugs* I never really figured it out.
If logging would've been around back then you probably could've flashed any other log with you not using BoL on the mage.
DarkerDreams wrote: »Please, at least disable this in PvP zones. It's crazy that someone can just look and see not only everything I did, but also all the abilities on my bar and all the gear I'm using. That's ridiculous. I should at least be able to hide what I'm using from other players. Not to mention there is enough lag in PvP as it is. Can't imagine this will help any.
Dragonnord wrote: »What about the players that want NO stuff/stats of them logged/saved anywhere when going to trials or so?
Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »Such drama over this tool. Now that it's Live have a look at the currently uploaded dungeon runs on the web site. I have yet to see one that shows anyone's name except the player doing the logging. Anonymous is all I see.
Anyone that goes out of their way to use this tool to harass others is a total numbskull and should be reported for harassment.
1. You need to download the uploader from the esologs website.
2. You should also create an account there.
3. In the game, you need to type /encounterlogs to start logging.
4. After the fight, type /encounterlog again to stop logging.
5. Use the uploader to upload the log (it's in \Elder Scrolls Online\live\logs) to the site.
6. Try to find out what the hell to do with the data.
ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."
DyingIsEasy wrote: »ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."
I agree. ZOS should re-enable all the features of the addon API.
DyingIsEasy wrote: »ZOS_BobbyWeir wrote: »You may remember that years ago, our addon API unintentionally allowed the ability to show group combat data in real time. While we saw a merit in this as tool, we disabled that capability due to the potential for misuse with having this information readily accessible in the game and in real time. Encounter logging provides a deep look into the same data, but external to the game and not in true real time. We believe these distinctions will swing the balance back towards using a tool like this for constructive purposes rather than nefarious ones.
@ZOS_BobbyWeir If there is no real-time logging, then why does the website you reference state "Two Kinds of Logging
There are two ways you can choose to log. The first is to upload the entire log file after your raid is over. The second way is to do what we call live logging. In this model, the client monitors the log file and whenever it sees new events tacked on to the end of the file, it sends those events up to the Web site. The live logging mode is great for when you want to study wipes right after they happened to see what went wrong."
I agree. ZOS should re-enable all the features of the addon API.
If that feature is disabled then the website shouldn't be talking about it being available. If it's not disabled then ZOS is losing trust. I would like some clarification from an official rep, please.
DyingIsEasy wrote: »The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DyingIsEasy wrote: »The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.
LoL. Define "true real time".
But you're right that they are two separate systems, and at least esolog allows for some level of anonymity - which the ESO API wouldn't allow.
DyingIsEasy wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DyingIsEasy wrote: »The addon API and the encounter logging are two separate systems.
And the live logging feature of the esologs client is not true real-time.
LoL. Define "true real time".
But you're right that they are two separate systems, and at least esolog allows for some level of anonymity - which the ESO API wouldn't allow.
I'm just using the same expression Bobby Weir used on page 1 to describe the system.