Encounter Logging

Pevey

The irony is is that I would be so much more comfortable with the way things used to be, real time in the API, rather than posting for all of posterity on a third party web site. But if the former was unpopular and removed from the game, how in the world did the latter get greenlit?

Hint for ZOS, there is a reason the tech-saavy younguns are gravitating toward things like snapchat that don't stick around. No one wants that.

Kihra

driosketch wrote: »

@Kihra I saw this asked, but never answered. Can any one in the group upload the log? Could a guild leader upload it to private/unlisted, but random #12, picked to fill out this run, upload it to public?

Before I answer this, I should back up and explain more about the site and how looking up people works, etc. This is a simplified overview, since I don't want to write a novel here.

The site has three functional pillars:

(1) Analysis (everything you see when viewing a report to help you progress, get better, study how to improve, see why you died, etc.)
(2) Statistics - Aggregated information about instances and classes/specs, e.g., what spec does the most damage, what spec dies the most on a specific boss, what mechanic does a spec die to, which boss takes more pulls, etc.
(3) Rankings - Leaderboards that let people compete for top scores, etc. The default view for this will be group points, although other metrics (e.g., DPS) will also be available, but the focus will be on the same kind of scoring you see on leaderboards sites right now.

(1) Analysis is designed for private, unlisted and public reports.
(2) Statistics works mostly on public reports, but will also anonymously collect private/unlisted data once enough public kills of a boss have been seen (e.g., how many pulls it takes to kill a boss and information about what mechanics are the most dangerous will draw from anonymized private data). This is not information specific to any one character. It's aggregate info.
(3) Rankings only draws from public reports. Unlisted and private reports don't rank.

When you search for a character on the site, you will get a view that lets you look at that character's public rankings. If that character is set to hidden, you won't see anything, because they opted out. There is no way to character search your way to a report itself. Your only entry point from searched character to report is through rankings, so if they've opted out of rankings or don't have any public logs shown, you won't see anything

So now to answer your question:

There is a (brand new on all my sites) feature for guilds called Stealth Mode, which allows guilds that value their group's privacy to say that only logs uploaded directly to the guild itself can be ranked. So if random #12 uploads it to their personal log space, it wouldn't be allowed to rank. That means it won't be on your character page etc.

driosketch wrote: »

While were at it, if players swap to anonymous between log and /log, how would the data show?

An anonymous version of the player is effectively a different character. My site will have no idea who it is, so I simply treat it as an unknown anonymous player. I can't later turn that back into the correct player, because I don't know who it is.

driosketch wrote: »

Also guilds on site. Is there some verification? Can anyone createcand claim a guild? Can anyone register as part ofva guild, or does it need approval from the leader? What about removing them from a guild when they leave the guild in game, and how does this effect previous private logs?

Unlike WoW/FF (which have APIs I can use to verify), there is no verification, but if someone squats on your name you can let me know. If anyone has bright ideas about how to implement some kind of guild verification scheme, I'm all ears.

The guild on the site has ranks similar to what you might see in-game, e.g., you have a guildmaster, officers, members, recruits and applicants. Officers and the guildmaster can promote, demote and kick other members. Only the guildmaster can promote/demote officers, etc.

If you have a person logging for your guild and for whatever reason, they leave the guild or are kicked, etc. they will lose access to any of the logs uploaded to the guild itself, i.e., the guild retains ownership of those logs. You'd want to kick them from the ESO Logs Guild first to secure that so they couldn't sabotage your logs before kicking them in-game.

driosketch wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not sure why there needs to be a public category at all. Can you explain it? If anything, it seems the unlisted link that can be posted in chat or Discord is all you'd need.

The public category is how you choose to participate in leaderboards. The idea is that every ranking you see on the site must be verifiable, i.e., you can go to the report and see exactly how that rank was achieved.

Elsonso

templesus wrote: »

We don’t have CMX on console. I’m hoping and praying on them porting this to console eventually.

I also want several features from add-ons added to ESO so that console can have them. I pretty much abandoned PS4, and while this disparity was not the top reason, it was definitely a reason. I will likely never return to PS4, at least not in any serious capacity, but that does not change that I think it is important for some add-on features to be moved into ESO so that all platforms can enjoy them.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Having met him, I can say that if it was within the scope of this tool to bring it to consoles, he could do it. While I was talking with him, he presented as a person who really wants to make something that is useful and is willing to listen to players and make adjustments, where possible. Don't dismiss this guy.

He looked quite embarrassed though during the stream (or is it me... ?). He tried to explain vaguely (with Gina and Jessica laughing their a** off ) that they're always close to addon developers - although this isn't an addon, but Kirah came to them to suggest this "pretty cool tool"... Not a word as to why and how they willfully disabled group data sharing in the API 2 or 3 years ago just to change their mind now... and code65536 , who's a very active addon author, mentioned in another thread that this has never been discussed with the community of addon developers.
That doesn't sound very transparent, nor consistent.

ZOS is active with the add-on community. I think that the reason he was vague is that he is not that person. He was describing what Chip Hilseberg does, and I wasn't expecting him to get into detail about that. However, my take is that neither Chip nor Bobby make these policy decisions, and the change in the group data sharing was such a policy decision. It has been talked about elsewhere, at another time. I feel that it was not his role on ESO Live to get into that.

majulook

@Kihra

I have not seen a mention of when the Anonymous flag is set on the logs. Hence the following Question.

When is the Anonymous flag set, during the creation of the log? or is it done on the web site?

Basically asking if the log file prior to up load show all group members name / character name even if a player has selected Anonymous?

Kihra

majulook wrote: »

@Kihra

I have not seen a mention of when the Anonymous flag is set on the logs. Hence the following Question.

When is the Anonymous flag set, during the creation of the log? or is it done on the web site?

Basically asking if the log file prior to up load show all group members name / character name even if a player has selected Anonymous?

There is a checkbox in-game that says you don't want your name included in logs. If that's checked, then what's put in logs is just an empty name field and an anonymous character id, so the log doesn't know who you are, and by extension, my site doesn't know who you are.

In addition, on my site, i also have the capability for character to be hidden from character searching and rankings. Because of the ZOS checkbox, this would only come into play if you both forgot to check the box and participated in content that resulted in a ranking, e.g., a public report with a ranked instance (it's still TBD what is going to be ranked on the site, I will be talking to the community more about that in the coming weeks).

majulook

Kihra wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

@Kihra

I have not seen a mention of when the Anonymous flag is set on the logs. Hence the following Question.

When is the Anonymous flag set, during the creation of the log? or is it done on the web site?

Basically asking if the log file prior to up load show all group members name / character name even if a player has selected Anonymous?

There is a checkbox in-game that says you don't want your name included in logs. If that's checked, then what's put in logs is just an empty name field and an anonymous character id, so the log doesn't know who you are, and by extension, my site doesn't know who you are.

In addition, on my site, i also have the capability for character to be hidden from character searching and rankings. Because of the ZOS checkbox, this would only come into play if you both forgot to check the box and participated in content that resulted in a ranking, e.g., a public report with a ranked instance (it's still TBD what is going to be ranked on the site, I will be talking to the community more about that in the coming weeks).

Thank you for the information.

Hallothiel

@anitajoneb17_ESO

Totally agree with your posts in this & other threads. (As well as others who have expressed unhappiness with this) So thank you for stating clearly most of the issues I have with this.

And there will be real world legal ramifications in UK/EU in regards to data protection & GDPR.

I just hope this never ever comes to consoles as it would stop me getting involved in any trials or end-game stuff ever again. Not because I am necessarily bad at dps or whatever, but because it makes this whole thing seem more like a bloody job then it already does. I have limited time to play so the idea of practicing fecking rotations in order to ‘get gud’ just does not appeal much.

I like doing trials with my guild as it’s FUN -not for leaderboard or skins or some misplaced need to get a sense of achievement from a video game. We learn together & help each other. All well & good - but I can see this then being used in ways that might make people feel uncomfortable, even with good intentions, if it is available to use.

And it will lessen build diversity in the game as if you are not running Alcast’s (or whomever) FotM build or rotation, you might not ‘measure up’ even though you kill the bosses & get things done.

Wolfkeks

@Kihra Sorry to bother you, I'm really torn about this whole thing.
First of all, I like the general idea to be able to see certain aspects of the game to see what went wrong and how to improve yourself. And you show how much effort you put into this, which is admirable! Kudos for that!

But I am not so fond of the idea to record all this data for everyone to see. Don't get me wrong... I tend to share my cm data with my raiding guild so we can see whether we need to improve on certain aspects or not. But I feel like I have very little control (expect setting myself anonymously) over what data I want to share and what I don't want to share.

So I have two little questions...
First of all, would it be an idea to implement a 'warning' of any kind if someone activates the combatlog so everyone who is in that group at least know about it? (Maybe like a little text on the side like "combatlog activated"?)
And secondly, would it be an idea to make a "ready check" before the combat log starts working? I think you mentioned before that it wouldn't make much sense to get part of the data and I totally agree on that. That would not make so much sense. But also some people simple don't want their data recorded which I also totally understand. So maybe it would be an option to make everyone is happy about the recording of data beforehand.

I am not really sure if this can be implemented or not but that's why I ask.

Kihra

Wolfkeks wrote: »

First of all, would it be an idea to implement a 'warning' of any kind if someone activates the combatlog so everyone who is in that group at least know about it? (Maybe like a little text on the side like "combatlog activated"?)
And secondly, would it be an idea to make a "ready check" before the combat log starts working? I think you mentioned before that it wouldn't make much sense to get part of the data and I totally agree on that. That would not make so much sense. But also some people simple don't want their data recorded which I also totally understand. So maybe it would be an option to make everyone is happy about the recording of data beforehand.

I am not really sure if this can be implemented or not but that's why I ask.

That's really a question for ZOS, not for me, since you're talking about in-game engineering work.

Wolfkeks

Kihra wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

First of all, would it be an idea to implement a 'warning' of any kind if someone activates the combatlog so everyone who is in that group at least know about it? (Maybe like a little text on the side like "combatlog activated"?)
And secondly, would it be an idea to make a "ready check" before the combat log starts working? I think you mentioned before that it wouldn't make much sense to get part of the data and I totally agree on that. That would not make so much sense. But also some people simple don't want their data recorded which I also totally understand. So maybe it would be an option to make everyone is happy about the recording of data beforehand.

I am not really sure if this can be implemented or not but that's why I ask.

That's really a question for ZOS, not for me, since you're talking about in-game engineering work.

Ahh sorry, but yeah, maybe ZOS can look for ways so everyone can be happy about this

VaranisArano

@Kihra

Thank you for speaking up in here to clarify some aspects of ESO Logs. I'd like to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

By default, my Character Name is shown AND can be displayed for leaderboard ranking in any Public log uploaded by anyone in a group with me. These rankings are publicly available and searchable without me ever having to agree to anything.

To change that, I have to check the in game box that hides my name. If I want to remove my name later, because someone uploaded one of my logs to Public and now I'm ranked on a leaderboard, I have to create an account, claim my characters, and send an email saying i don't ever want to be ranked.

Is that correct?

I will be perfectly honest. I feel very strongly that the default setting needs to be for everyone to be Anonymous. That way there is zero chance that anyone gets their Character Name attached to a Public, Unlisted, or Private Log without having agreed that their Character Name can be on that. That way no one ends up with their character name on a Public Leaderboard ranking without having agreed to be ranked. That way no one can create a history of a player's logs without that player consenting to have their name attached to the logs.

As stated in an earlier comment, I'm specifically thinking of new and returning players who may not realizing that by failing to check the anonymous box they are by default consenting to have their Character Name and Log shared by anyone using ESO Logs to upload the log, and if that person uploads it as a public log, to have their Character Names ranked.

Kihra

VaranisArano wrote: »

If I want to remove my name later, because someone uploaded one of my logs to Public and now I'm ranked on a leaderboard, I have to create an account, claim my characters, and send an email saying i don't ever want to be ranked.

Is that correct?

Not quite. It's either/or not both. You can either sign up and claim your characters, or just send me an email without registering and I'll hide it.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I will be perfectly honest. I feel very strongly that the default setting needs to be for everyone to be Anonymous

As mentioned, all I care about is that the log be complete fight data. Whether or not the checkbox defaults to Anonymous, doesn't matter to me.

driosketch

Kihra wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

@Kihra I saw this asked, but never answered. Can any one in the group upload the log? Could a guild leader upload it to private/unlisted, but random #12, picked to fill out this run, upload it to public?

Before I answer this, I should back up and explain more about the site and how looking up people works, etc. This is a simplified overview, since I don't want to write a novel here.

The site has three functional pillars:

(1) Analysis (everything you see when viewing a report to help you progress, get better, study how to improve, see why you died, etc.)
(2) Statistics - Aggregated information about instances and classes/specs, e.g., what spec does the most damage, what spec dies the most on a specific boss, what mechanic does a spec die to, which boss takes more pulls, etc.
(3) Rankings - Leaderboards that let people compete for top scores, etc. The default view for this will be group points, although other metrics (e.g., DPS) will also be available, but the focus will be on the same kind of scoring you see on leaderboards sites right now.

(1) Analysis is designed for private, unlisted and public reports.
(2) Statistics works mostly on public reports, but will also anonymously collect private/unlisted data once enough public kills of a boss have been seen (e.g., how many pulls it takes to kill a boss and information about what mechanics are the most dangerous will draw from anonymized private data). This is not information specific to any one character. It's aggregate info.
(3) Rankings only draws from public reports. Unlisted and private reports don't rank.

When you search for a character on the site, you will get a view that lets you look at that character's public rankings. If that character is set to hidden, you won't see anything, because they opted out. There is no way to character search your way to a report itself. Your only entry point from searched character to report is through rankings, so if they've opted out of rankings or don't have any public logs shown, you won't see anything

So now to answer your question:

There is a (brand new on all my sites) feature for guilds called Stealth Mode, which allows guilds that value their group's privacy to say that only logs uploaded directly to the guild itself can be ranked. So if random #12 uploads it to their personal log space, it wouldn't be allowed to rank. That means it won't be on your character page etc.

driosketch wrote: »

While were at it, if players swap to anonymous between log and /log, how would the data show?

An anonymous version of the player is effectively a different character. My site will have no idea who it is, so I simply treat it as an unknown anonymous player. I can't later turn that back into the correct player, because I don't know who it is.

driosketch wrote: »

Also guilds on site. Is there some verification? Can anyone createcand claim a guild? Can anyone register as part ofva guild, or does it need approval from the leader? What about removing them from a guild when they leave the guild in game, and how does this effect previous private logs?

Unlike WoW/FF (which have APIs I can use to verify), there is no verification, but if someone squats on your name you can let me know. If anyone has bright ideas about how to implement some kind of guild verification scheme, I'm all ears.

The guild on the site has ranks similar to what you might see in-game, e.g., you have a guildmaster, officers, members, recruits and applicants. Officers and the guildmaster can promote, demote and kick other members. Only the guildmaster can promote/demote officers, etc.

If you have a person logging for your guild and for whatever reason, they leave the guild or are kicked, etc. they will lose access to any of the logs uploaded to the guild itself, i.e., the guild retains ownership of those logs. You'd want to kick them from the ESO Logs Guild first to secure that so they couldn't sabotage your logs before kicking them in-game.

driosketch wrote: »

Honestly, I'm not sure why there needs to be a public category at all. Can you explain it? If anything, it seems the unlisted link that can be posted in chat or Discord is all you'd need.

The public category is how you choose to participate in leaderboards. The idea is that every ranking you see on the site must be verifiable, i.e., you can go to the report and see exactly how that rank was achieved.

Thank you for your detailed answer.

First off, I like the idea of aggregate data. It's something I wish ZOS would share on their own, but what are you going to do.

I'll probably leave my names public as I have no cares if anyone sees.

I lead a causal guild, so while analysis options helps progression guilds, it seems like more work than my guild needs. That said, it looks like I'm going to be interacting with the site regardless to safegaurd my members' privacy.

VaranisArano

Kihra wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If I want to remove my name later, because someone uploaded one of my logs to Public and now I'm ranked on a leaderboard, I have to create an account, claim my characters, and send an email saying i don't ever want to be ranked.

Is that correct?

Not quite. It's either/or not both. You can either sign up and claim your characters, or just send me an email without registering and I'll hide it.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I will be perfectly honest. I feel very strongly that the default setting needs to be for everyone to be Anonymous

As mentioned, all I care about is that the log be complete fight data. Whether or not the checkbox defaults to Anonymous, doesn't matter to me.

@Kihra

Thank you for clarifying how becoming anonymous works and for clarifying that we should address our concerns about privacy to ZOS.

FrancisCrawford

Kihra wrote: »

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

Question:
Took a look at the website and it looks incredibly thought out and detailed which makes me happy and excited but one thing worries me... Is this going to be worldwide or serverwide, or only the logs you've personally saved? I'd feel uncomfortable posting a log without someone's consent if many people will be able to see it. Just because I wanted to know about something that happened during an encounter.

@Kihra perhaps you could shed some light?

Sure, as mentioned by Bobby, you'll be able to check a checkbox in-game that will cause your name to be omitted when logging. This means if someone did upload it to the Web site, it will just show up as Anonymous and have no connection to any specific character.

In addition, the site itself supports just opting out completely and saying you don't want to ever be ranked, etc. This will be possible by either just sending an email to me through the site's contact us link asking for your character to be hidden (if say you accidentally forgot to check the box in-game), or by creating an account, claiming your character, and toggling its visibility to hidden yourself.

@Kihra,

I hope you'll have a better way to hide data from the public than manual steps like those. If I join a group of strangers, I shouldn't have to do ANYTHING to avert the possibility that data about my playing habits is available into the indefinite future, perhaps to be subpeonaed some day by President Ilhan Omar or Special Prosecutor Barron Trump.

FrancisCrawford

It is essential that this data be very easily made to disappear. Indeed, I'd suggest that it should automatically disappear, including from backups, after a period of time, absent very specific opt-ins by everybody covered. To see why, just consider China's "social credit score", in which people's rights to credit, university admissions, or even travel can be limited based on the video gaming behavior.

Penalties include loss of employment and educational opportunities, as well as transportation restrictions. Those with high scores get perks, like discounts on utility bills and faster application processes to travel abroad.

violations that result in a lowered score include playing too many video games

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/2/18057450/china-social-credit-score-spend-frivolously-video-games

FrancisCrawford

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

One can infer from this data who was gaming at what time. That's significant surveillance right there.

Solinur

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

One can infer from this data who was gaming at what time. That's significant surveillance right there.

You only know that account was gaming. Also ZOS already knows when that happens.

FrancisCrawford

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

Various free countries, including the US, have demanded social media user names and passwords from people attempting to cross their border, including their own citizens.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Solinur wrote: »

You only know that account was gaming. Also ZOS already knows when that happens.

It's "funny" how you pro-logger people keep on saying that, because it happens once, it can happen a zillion times and it's all the same. That because it's already raining it doesn't matter if it rains double, that you'll be wet anyway... do you think you're going to give people more confidence with this strategy ?

And concretely, ZOS knowing my ingame behaviour is one thing. I've agreed to it by using and subscribing to the service. There's a consent, there's a company, and said company has every interest in the world, to keep both its reputation + me as a customer, to keep all this private.
The site esologs.com has no interest in keeping this private, nor in investing in security. We don't even know who they are. Oh yes, some Itchy and Scratchy... errr, sorry, "Irksome and Strange" company based in Houston, TX. With whom I haven't signed anything nor agreed to anything. And who agrees to "anonymize me" but not to erase my data if I want to !

If you don't see the difference, I'd suggest you give me your bank and credit card data, as well as the PIN code. What does it matter if I have that info - your bank already has it !

idk

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Wouldn't compliance with EU privacy laws force an opt-in mechanism? @Kihra

I hope you have consulted a lawyer for professional legal advice on this matter. This could get very expensive for you otherwise imho.

I'll applaud you for thinking outside of the box a little, but I don't see this coming in to play.

1. Your username is already public
2. No real life PII will need to be stored
3. No financial information is on the site
4. No private chat systems or comment sections need to be implemented
5. What privacy is being violated? Your dps in a dungeon? That's not private information, it's just a collection of data that has 0 meaning outside of ESO.
6. The EU may have banned memes, but they haven't banned dps meters yet.

Top tier fear mongering though!

One can infer from this data who was gaming at what time. That's significant surveillance right there.

Very correct. Something those that are blinded by the shiny object this tool is really do not care about and gloss over/make excuses.

Facts are that Zos could have made it so a player could truly opt out of sharing damage information. It is simple changes to the database that would do this and still allow necessary buff information to pass through. Zos chose the lazy strategy.

Further, this would not affect guilds and raid teams from using this to it's fullest effect and they are aware of this because they would require their members to be opted in during their raids. The only reason they are against the idea is they are afraid Zos would pull the entire project instead of doing what is right.

It really is that simple.

DyingIsEasy

This whole discussion shouldn't be about some website but what ZOS exposes through the logging.
And since you can set it to be anonymous this whole argument is invalid.

idk

DyingIsEasy wrote: »

This whole discussion shouldn't be about some website but what ZOS exposes through the logging.
And since you can set it to be anonymous this whole argument is invalid.

It is not truly anonymous. Even some who do not care about the opinions of others have acknowledged that there are situations that an anonymous person could still be identified because they were the only DD in the raid that was toggled as anonymous.

That is why the current design on Zos' end is insufficient.

hedna123b14_ESO

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

"Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual."
Please tie my game name to my real life identity...ill wait...

Various free countries, including the US, have demanded social media user names and passwords from people attempting to cross their border, including their own citizens.

What?

VaranisArano

DyingIsEasy wrote: »

This whole discussion shouldn't be about some website but what ZOS exposes through the logging.
And since you can set it to be anonymous this whole argument is invalid.

No. There's a substantial difference in player privacy protections between "you can set it to be anonymous" and "the default is that everyone is anonymous and you can set it to show your character name if you want."

I think this tool has the potential to be very useful indeed for consenting players.

But I have serious concerns about player privacy under the current system precisely because anonymous is NOT the default. Consent to have one's character name attached to a log that can be made available to anyone the logger wants to share it with or made public with your character name ranked on a leaderboard should not be assumed.

Anonymity needs to be the default in order to protect player privacy.

hedna123b14_ESO

After reading this forum post I'm not surprised ZoS ignores much of feedback from here...

Gilvoth

if everyone in the group consents then it shows.
if one person does not consent then it is shut off.

"Dont show who voted to not consent."

VaranisArano

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

After reading this forum post I'm not surprised ZoS ignores much of feedback from here...

I find the best way to respond is to provide my own reasoned feedback, supported as best I can with facts, whether or not I think ZOS is ignoring it. That's especially true for experimental features like this one where ZOS is implementing something new.

After all, the recent example of PVP faction locks suggests that ZOS often only seems to be ignoring things.

Personally, I suspect that ZOS is waiting for us to give this a try on the PTS. I suspect that the raid groups who go to practice the Sunspire trial will have a blast figuring out all the nuts and bolts of the new data. I do hope that some people are able to take a look at the security features on ESO Logs as well.

DyingIsEasy

idk wrote: »

DyingIsEasy wrote: »

This whole discussion shouldn't be about some website but what ZOS exposes through the logging.
And since you can set it to be anonymous this whole argument is invalid.

It is not truly anonymous. Even some who do not care about the opinions of others have acknowledged that there are situations that an anonymous person could still be identified because they were the only DD in the raid that was toggled as anonymous.

That is why the current design on Zos' end is insufficient.

Without a shadow of a doubt there are situations where an anonymous person can be identified.

Let's say player A wants to truly hurt player B by exposing his low dps.
What stops player A from recording a dungeon run where he does low dps and then changing the log file to replace his name with the name of player B?
I wouldn't like to be a target of something like that either but it's just that ZOS has ZERO control over it.

VaranisArano

DyingIsEasy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

DyingIsEasy wrote: »

This whole discussion shouldn't be about some website but what ZOS exposes through the logging.
And since you can set it to be anonymous this whole argument is invalid.

It is not truly anonymous. Even some who do not care about the opinions of others have acknowledged that there are situations that an anonymous person could still be identified because they were the only DD in the raid that was toggled as anonymous.

That is why the current design on Zos' end is insufficient.

Without a shadow of a doubt there are situations where an anonymous person can be identified.

Let's say player A wants to truly hurt player B by exposing his low dps.
What stops player A from recording a dungeon run where he does low dps and then changing the log file to replace his name with the name of player B?
I wouldn't like to be a target of something like that either but it's just that ZOS has ZERO control over it.

It will be interesting to see how resistant the ESO Log is to being cheesed or edited. I hope people look into that on the PTS, since that's likely to prove a problem for raid groups wanting to use this as a tool.

But when it comes to changing names to name-and-shame players, especially if they just post a picture of the log and not the log itself so it can't be as easily disproved, no editing of the actual log required? There's not really any way for ZOS to stop that. Or even ESO Logs. Heck, I could do that with Combat Metrics and a little bit of Photoshop trickery. You could do that regardless of whether or not the targeted player is set to anonymous or not.