Earthgore.... is it heading for nerfdom?

Jeremy

Minno wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.

What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?

As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?

Zardayne wrote: »

You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.

What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?

As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?

It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.

Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.

Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.

There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.

Sorry, communication, and better use of healing spells are needed. If end game healers can figure it out, so can the pugs lol.

But they haven't figured it out (because there is nothing to figure out). As even the defenders of this nerf have mistakenly admitted - even the "good healers" are complaining about how earthgore makes them useless (it was shields before that and it will be something else after). Why is that if they are such amazingly good healers even according to them? I"ll tell you why - because no matter how good the healer is he or she cannot be in multiple places at the same time or facing in multiple directions at once. Therefore it will always be quicker and safer for a DPS to heal themselves in an emergency instead of relying on a healer to do it - especially on a chaotic fight where everyone is spread about dealing with adds or mechanics.

This isn't a hard issue to understand. The reason healers have a harder time being relevant on this game when compared to other MMORPGs is because there are directional and positional restrains put on their healing spells which are not placed on healers in other games. And if you have ever done an "endgame" trial you'll know "endgame healers" basically just beg for players to stack the whole time.... so they are no better at healing a group that is spread out all over the place than other healers are.

Sounds like a great game though. I wish more games forced you to think about skill/teammate placement!

Maybe if it was done better. But it's not. Frequently you encounter fights that conflict with having to position players around the healer. So instead of adding strategic elements it just adds annoyances.

For example: if you are going to require that damage dealers stay stacked around the healer then don't put adds they have to kill at every corner of the map or mechanics at each end of the battlefield they have to run to and deal with. All this does is encourage people to spread about away from the healer and in different directions and locations - which of course makes it more difficult for them to heal and encourages DPS to simply heal themselves instead (which is what a lot of them wisely end up doing). And that ends up making healers less relevant - especially if the tank is capable of surviving on their own (which a lot of them are).

cpuScientist

EarthGore is a problem set in PvP. It's a big problem set in battlegrounds aswell. It needs to be changed as it is a near automatic reset. I don't really see how anyone can argue that it should stay as is in PvP but I wouldn't mind hearing it.

For PvE however it's a strong potent set that will carry a bad healer. Or make a good one very bored. I don't necessarily think it needs to be deleted as I do in PvP. But it makes bad healers complacent.

It won't save a bad group no, nothing can save a bad group in PvE except a good player. It however masks a bad healer as decent.

In alot of content truly all one needs a tank running it with say yellow orbs or mutagen and it's enough if the group is semi competent.

I was in a VDSA the other day routine stuff easy arena. And we were training a tank my friend who usually heals wanted to dps so we just pugged a heals. They were terrible at keeping mutagen up or sending out energy orbs they would be near dead or the tank would be in need of an emergency heal and would think to then apply mutagen or springs instead of a quick burst heal. In essence they were a bad healer dead ALOT and not really understanding that there is somewhat of a rotation even as a healer. Not understanding which heals to use and when. But that earthgore would proc and burst heal the tank or them and they felt good. Since we were training the tank we figured might as well help this healer, 810+ but maybe new to healing. They said that they were doing great and there was only minimal deaths so we are wrong. Metrics on the tank showed that 4/5 times over prolonged encounters earthgore was most of their healing received by our healer. And they left angrily thinking they were doing a good job.

This little story doesn't mean earthgore needs to be gone from pve but I really think it is far to much of a carry and it's existence makes other balanced sets just seem crap in comparison. 29 seconds cooldown seems long but it's pretty darn short.

Happy and hoping it's really getting melted in PvP

Jeremy

cpuScientist wrote: »

EarthGore is a problem set in PvP. It's a big problem set in battlegrounds aswell. It needs to be changed as it is a near automatic reset. I don't really see how anyone can argue that it should stay as is in PvP but I wouldn't mind hearing it.

For PvE however it's a strong potent set that will carry a bad healer. Or make a good one very bored. I don't necessarily think it needs to be deleted as I do in PvP. But it makes bad healers complacent.

It won't save a bad group no, nothing can save a bad group in PvE except a good player. It however masks a bad healer as decent.

In alot of content truly all one needs a tank running it with say yellow orbs or mutagen and it's enough if the group is semi competent.

I was in a VDSA the other day routine stuff easy arena. And we were training a tank my friend who usually heals wanted to dps so we just pugged a heals. They were terrible at keeping mutagen up or sending out energy orbs they would be near dead or the tank would be in need of an emergency heal and would think to then apply mutagen or springs instead of a quick burst heal. In essence they were a bad healer dead ALOT and not really understanding that there is somewhat of a rotation even as a healer. Not understanding which heals to use and when. But that earthgore would proc and burst heal the tank or them and they felt good. Since we were training the tank we figured might as well help this healer, 810+ but maybe new to healing. They said that they were doing great and there was only minimal deaths so we are wrong. Metrics on the tank showed that 4/5 times over prolonged encounters earthgore was most of their healing received by our healer. And they left angrily thinking they were doing a good job.

This little story doesn't mean earthgore needs to be gone from pve but I really think it is far to much of a carry and it's existence makes other balanced sets just seem crap in comparison. 29 seconds cooldown seems long but it's pretty darn short.

Happy and hoping it's really getting melted in PvP

Healing the tank isn't really the issue though. It's not difficult for a healer to remain facing a tank or to keep regens up on them. I doubt if any healer wears Earthgore so they can burst-heal the tank if they get into trouble. It's the other party members that are running all over the place that's the issue.

So they don't wear Earthgore because they are "bad" healers who need to be carried. They wear it because it is one of the few heals they have access to that can quickly heal someone in need regardless if they are in front of them or not (which is frankly how all heals should work).

Haashhtaag

Glory wrote: »

Assuming incoming changes are as rumored/pictured

• Earthgore will still be crazy strong in PvP due to ground effect removal
• Almost all PvE content in this game does not require any healers whatsoever, with or without this set. Core exceptions being trials and a few veteran 4-mans (but most still easily 3DPS+tank)
• Sets that save wipes by doing something because you did not are not healthy for the game
• Most healing in PvE is so watered down due to most mechanics being one-shot or not. Thus, healers now are mostly buff-bots + a few heals

It's a little sad to see that healers really think a set that eliminates the core reason you exist should exist in this game. There are healthy sets for healers in this game (Sanctuary, Olorime, Transmutation, etc.), which provide advantages to you as a healer by buffing your healing/buffing allies strength/sturdiness. And there are sets that do the work for you.

This set is doing to healers exactly what the Procalypse did to damage dealers - it takes away gameplay elements from you in exchange for doing the job for you. You're no longer playing the game - your gear is.

When you finish a challenging content - whether it's a normal dungeon, a veteran dungeon, a perfect trial, a PvP raid (depending on player skill and preferences) - don't you want to look back and say "dang, my heals were ON POINT! I saved that guy!" instead of "well Earthgore healed my ally before I could."

It's so cool to be a healer in a meta where your allies are saying "man you're healing is OP, thanks for keeping us alive." And it feels terrible to be in one where you're not even needed in veteran dungeons anymore because a set will do your job instead.

Glory’s pvp heals are on point, can confirm. Literally carries

Zardayne

angelncelestine wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

angelncelestine wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

I was thinking the same thing. Back when I started healing we didnt even use monster sets. There was no room to. We still managed to do our job. O.o For those of you that are claiming that we all run in organized groups, and not pugs. I am the healer I am today because I chose to pug dungeons so that I could learn how to handle any situation. At that time I had no monster set whatsoever. Just throwing out something helpful for those of you that don't play Templars.. Rapids/mutagen and healing ward are great skills to use for those chickens running around with there heads cut off . :-)

I did the same thing when the game released on PC and I was healing on my DK. Sure we had no monster sets and I healed like a madman but it would quite foolish of me to not use newer more efficient items and skills as they become available. There's no reason to keep treading the hard road if an easier route becomes available just so I (or you)can prove to everyone were better because we like to continue to work harder.

I am sorry if that came across the wrong way. I in no way meant to imply that you need to heal without the luxury of the monster sets that we can use today. Healers deserve cool stuff to. I am just trying to help people understand that the sky isn't falling because they may or may not be nerfing EG. Really imo people should be looking at it more as a good thing.

Not a problem. Same here. I didn't mean for mine to come off in a rude manner I'm just trying to post and work at the same time which probably isn't a good mix lol.

kargen27

I like using Earthgore in pug trials. Often you have 11 other players running in 14 different directions and Earthgore can help keep a couple of them alive a bit longer.

And it is funny to watch other players run from it.

Jeremy

kargen27 wrote: »

I like using Earthgore in pug trials. Often you have 11 other players running in 14 different directions and Earthgore can help keep a couple of them alive a bit longer.

And it is funny to watch other players run from it.

I believe that's why most healers use it. It's not because they are "bad" and need a "crutch". It's simply because it's one of the few heals we have that can actually heal people when they are running in different directions.

mattaeus01b16_ESO

Chokethorn is just to damn random for my liking. And Bogdan rarely procs. When it does, its hard as hell to see... and never where its useful. Earthgore, you can at least see where it is, and has a decent radius on it to be helpfull... Unless the DPS runs from it.

Jeremy

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

Chokethorn is just to damn random for my liking. And Bogdan rarely procs. When it does, its hard as hell to see... and never where its useful. Earthgore, you can at least see where it is, and has a decent radius on it to be helpfull... Unless the DPS runs from it.

That's why I don't like Chokethorn. It's just too random. Heals are only useful if they activate when they are actually needed. Though for PvP I thought it was pretty decent when healing in large groups.

AbysmalGhul

They should come out with new monster sets for healers that buff, extend, or morph healing abilities. Some variety would be nice because
Chokethorn is a whack set, just like 99% of the other monster sets healers have to choose from.

Knowledge

I feel like Earthgore is too unpredictable and has too long of a cooldown for it to be considered "overpowered". Sure it acts as a throwing save in the heat of battle but it still requires proper positioning and utilization. Skilled players can deal with it.

Jhalin

Jeremy wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like using Earthgore in pug trials. Often you have 11 other players running in 14 different directions and Earthgore can help keep a couple of them alive a bit longer.

And it is funny to watch other players run from it.

I believe that's why most healers use it. It's not because they are "bad" and need a "crutch". It's simply because it's one of the few heals we have that can actually heal people when they are running in different directions.

It’s a crutch that makes the reasonable punishments from bad positioning or ignoring mechanics a non-factor

It makes bad healers think they’re performing adequately. Good healers don’t need it even in a pug. Well organized groups need it even less.

It’s basically if you used Destro ult with a Resto staff equipped. If it’s there for clutch saves on a kiter in vAS or an offtank in vSO then being single target should be no issue. If it’s being used to clear out dangerous ground DoTs to save the group from more damage, then it will fulfill that purpose.

If you’re using it to save a poorly organized, scattered group, where they would under no uncertain terms be failing without the use of this set, then yeah, you’ll feel the hurt as it should be.

A good balance that’s less brain dead than “let your HoTs proc to burst heal everyone in the raid/zerg” would be lowered healing on a single target beyond even this rumor, a capped ground AoE cleanse, and Major Vitailty for anyone in the rain

That one unlucky dps gets their save, the healer still has to use active healing to sustain the group, it relieves but doesn’t negate pressure from heavy AoE drops, and groups that aren’t positioning properly or with healers that are slacking will no longer be able to clear until they actually get better instead of letting themselves get carried by two pieces of armor that aren’t even difficult to get ahold of.

technohic

Knowledge wrote: »

I feel like Earthgore is too unpredictable and has too long of a cooldown for it to be considered "overpowered". Sure it acts as a throwing save in the heat of battle but it still requires proper positioning and utilization. Skilled players can deal with it.

That's why you dont see solo to mid size groups use it in Cyrodiil as they need to move. It's mostly clumped up players you often see turtle up somewhere while they build ultimate then turn and bomb but just zergs use it as well as they have lots of numbers and chances to overlap the proc. Of course I'm not sure this nerf will help that. Probably will just be more of them using it and now it's going to negate a lot more. (not cleanse. There's a difference incase there are anyobe who still doesn't know)

I cant believe pugs in PVE actually make use of it. Dont you have to move a lot out of the red? Maybe just the tank stands there taunting but multiple PUGs moving out of red get hit by this?

I ran it once in Cyrodiil on a night where our guild takes a lot of PvEers around that often are good targets to be bombed and it was comical knowing how easy a particular group usually would blow them up but wiped when they tried in a tight spot. Some fell but usually it was a full wipe for our no crit resist players.

DisgracefulMind

Commancho wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

This change makes sense. For example Zaan provides dps bonus comparable to AOE ultimate but only on single target and with limitation in range. New Earthgore will provide ultimate-level healing on single target and still AOE purge. Still will be strong in dynamic combats when people are not in stack and viable in PVP.

No, everyone will just switch to Templar and use Chokethorn / Troll King and use cleanse and forget about Earthgore.

LOL as if those sets are even close even after the proposed nerf. We are talking a set that provides ultimate level heals and an ultimate ability to negate...to a sappling that heales for 25% less without the extra, and a set that gives 1500 health recovery and is washed out by vamp.

Extended Ritual from Templar's skill line will instanty heal your group in the 18m radius and it will remove up to 5 negative effects including those comming from any ultimate, heal your group for 18s and it provides Purifing synergy which can remove negative effects and it provides instant healing. It has no cooldown, instant cast time, no proc requirements and low cost of 4320 magika. It has also another morph which damages enemies. So tell me, why I should use Earthgore anymore, if I can simply play Templar? This nerf hits all other healing classes than Templar, he was meta before, but now he will be a necessity in any organised PVP/PVE group.

The purify synergy does have a cooldown, all synergies do. The Templar ritual is also a HoT and doesn't burst heal.

Please learn facts before trying to spread an agenda.

And if you don't know how to heal on another class without Earthgore, you should just stick to Templar anyways.

Karmanorway

It should be banned from BGs

DisgracefulMind

Ahtu wrote: »

Earthgore is a counter for negate. There is no other way to deal with negates currently other than another negate. All classes should have a way to counter negates, not just sorcerers.

No they shouldn't. If you're running a raid group you should need to build for sorcerers to counter negates.

Also, there is a counter ---> roll out of the negate.

Juhasow

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.

In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.

Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?

That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.

The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.

Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.

Someone obviously does not play as a healer...

I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.

Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies.

Nah. What you will learn (and quickly) is this fantasy of yours that our heals track allies is just that - a fantasy. There is a reason so many healers use Earthgore. If it was half as easy to keep track of everyone on the battlefield and heal them quickly during an emergency then that would not be the case. But you can pretend we're all just "bad healers" who need a crutch if it makes you feel better. But the truth is this is a real weakness in the healer's tool kit and Earthgore helps mitigate it.

That reason is if they wouldnt use earthgore they would be useless because at that point tank can start using earthgore and be more effective healer then the actual healer. This sets just disables any need to use brain and eyes because the most important role that healer is responsible for which is saving allies from "oh crap" moments will be done by the set. This is why 4 man content is so easily cleared with 3 DDs and tank using earthgore ( I personally got vBRP flawless run that way). It is easy to keep track on allies as a healer people just want to make it easier with earthgore because why not. If You have some pugs in Your group just use simple combo of mutagen+healing ward that's all both abilities will not requre targetting. The only thing that Earthgore helps healers with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard healing.

Zardayne

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.

In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.

Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?

That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.

The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.

Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.

Someone obviously does not play as a healer...

I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.

Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies.

Nah. What you will learn (and quickly) is this fantasy of yours that our heals track allies is just that - a fantasy. There is a reason so many healers use Earthgore. If it was half as easy to keep track of everyone on the battlefield and heal them quickly during an emergency then that would not be the case. But you can pretend we're all just "bad healers" who need a crutch if it makes you feel better. But the truth is this is a real weakness in the healer's tool kit and Earthgore helps mitigate it.

That reason is if they wouldnt use earthgore they would be useless because at that point tank can start using earthgore and be more effective healer then the actual healer. This sets just disables any need to use brain and eyes because the most important role that healer is responsible for which is saving allies from "oh crap" moments will be done by the set. This is why 4 man content is so easily cleared with 3 DDs and tank using earthgore ( I personally got vBRP flawless run that way). It is easy to keep track on allies as a healer people just want to make it easier with earthgore because why not. If You have some pugs in Your group just use simple combo of mutagen+healing ward that's all both abilities will not requre targetting. The only thing that Earthgore helps healers with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard healing.

Let's be honest. Can't we same the same about every proc set for DPS players such as Skoria, etc? How about Blood Spawn procs that save alot of our asses that run it? Arn't those crutches we rely on? Can't we just replace Earthgore in your last sentence there with almost any DPS proc set and change healer to DPS to have the same outcome of using a crutch?

The only thing that Skoria helps DPS with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard damage dealing.[/quote]

I mean isn't using those sets to increase DPS just carrying that person to look like they are more damaging and bad ass than they really are? Oh and it makes killing stuff easier! Those sets proc a hell of a lot more than earthgore...

The problem with Earthgore is in mass PVP, plain and simple. There might be a small group of leet doodz that can run vet DLC dungeons and Trials without a healer and only an Earthgore tank but I bet the majority would get mopped up without a healer saving their ass. I'd even wager they wouldn't care less if Earthgore saved them or Healing ward. They'd just be glad they made it to the end to tell the tale.

Juhasow

Zardayne wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.

In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.

Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?

That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.

The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.

Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.

Someone obviously does not play as a healer...

I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.

Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies.

Nah. What you will learn (and quickly) is this fantasy of yours that our heals track allies is just that - a fantasy. There is a reason so many healers use Earthgore. If it was half as easy to keep track of everyone on the battlefield and heal them quickly during an emergency then that would not be the case. But you can pretend we're all just "bad healers" who need a crutch if it makes you feel better. But the truth is this is a real weakness in the healer's tool kit and Earthgore helps mitigate it.

That reason is if they wouldnt use earthgore they would be useless because at that point tank can start using earthgore and be more effective healer then the actual healer. This sets just disables any need to use brain and eyes because the most important role that healer is responsible for which is saving allies from "oh crap" moments will be done by the set. This is why 4 man content is so easily cleared with 3 DDs and tank using earthgore ( I personally got vBRP flawless run that way). It is easy to keep track on allies as a healer people just want to make it easier with earthgore because why not. If You have some pugs in Your group just use simple combo of mutagen+healing ward that's all both abilities will not requre targetting. The only thing that Earthgore helps healers with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard healing.

Let's be honest. Can't we same the same about every proc set for DPS players such as Skoria, etc? Can't we just replace Earthgore in your last sentence there with almost any DPS proc set and change healer to DPS to have the same outcome.

The only thing that Skoria helps DPS with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard damage dealing.

I mean isn't using those sets to increase DPS just carrying that person to look like they are more damaging and bad ass than they really are? Oh and it makes killing stuff easier! Those sets proc a hell of a lot more than earthgore...

The problem with Earthgore is in PVP, plain and simple. There might be a small group of leet doodz that can run vet DLC dungeons and Trials without a healer and only an Earthgore tank but I bet the majority would get mopped up without a healer saving their ass. I'd even wager they wouldn't care less if Earthgore saved them or Healing ward. They'd just be glad they made it to the end to tell the tale.

Wow looks like there is some contest on taking things out of context and twisting them on that forum. Is skoria proccing when You need it the most and on enemie that You need it the most to proc ? Because that is what earthgore is doing with healing.

But yeah lets keep to Your idea of comparing healing sets to damaging sets 1 to 1. If there would be a damaging set that before multipliers proc 30k bleed (since heals also do not scale from penetrations) AoE dmg in 6 seconds on the ground and would disable some buff on enemies inside it with 35 second cooldown would that set be ok for You ?

kargen27

technohic wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

I feel like Earthgore is too unpredictable and has too long of a cooldown for it to be considered "overpowered". Sure it acts as a throwing save in the heat of battle but it still requires proper positioning and utilization. Skilled players can deal with it.

That's why you dont see solo to mid size groups use it in Cyrodiil as they need to move. It's mostly clumped up players you often see turtle up somewhere while they build ultimate then turn and bomb but just zergs use it as well as they have lots of numbers and chances to overlap the proc. Of course I'm not sure this nerf will help that. Probably will just be more of them using it and now it's going to negate a lot more. (not cleanse. There's a difference incase there are anyobe who still doesn't know)

I cant believe pugs in PVE actually make use of it. Dont you have to move a lot out of the red? Maybe just the tank stands there taunting but multiple PUGs moving out of red get hit by this?

I ran it once in Cyrodiil on a night where our guild takes a lot of PvEers around that often are good targets to be bombed and it was comical knowing how easy a particular group usually would blow them up but wiped when they tried in a tight spot. Some fell but usually it was a full wipe for our no crit resist players.

That groups do tend to move around a lot is exactly why it gets used in pugs especially trials. You have players running all over the place. I can keep a tight group alive through the worst of stuff no problem. Even slightly scattered good chance I am keeping them all up. When you have some on a boss, some on a few adds off to one side and another running from an archer he was attacking in the back somewhere it is nice to have that blood shower from time to time hit a few of them.

One thing that blood cloud does for me is when it goes off over someone away from group I might not have seen I can tell them after the fight if they stay nearer the group I can keep them alive easier. I like running trials with pugs sometimes because it offers a unique challenge when not everybody knows what they are doing. Earthgore can come in handy for that.

Zardayne

Juhasow wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.

In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.

Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?

That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.

The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.

Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.

Someone obviously does not play as a healer...

I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.

Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies.

Nah. What you will learn (and quickly) is this fantasy of yours that our heals track allies is just that - a fantasy. There is a reason so many healers use Earthgore. If it was half as easy to keep track of everyone on the battlefield and heal them quickly during an emergency then that would not be the case. But you can pretend we're all just "bad healers" who need a crutch if it makes you feel better. But the truth is this is a real weakness in the healer's tool kit and Earthgore helps mitigate it.

That reason is if they wouldnt use earthgore they would be useless because at that point tank can start using earthgore and be more effective healer then the actual healer. This sets just disables any need to use brain and eyes because the most important role that healer is responsible for which is saving allies from "oh crap" moments will be done by the set. This is why 4 man content is so easily cleared with 3 DDs and tank using earthgore ( I personally got vBRP flawless run that way). It is easy to keep track on allies as a healer people just want to make it easier with earthgore because why not. If You have some pugs in Your group just use simple combo of mutagen+healing ward that's all both abilities will not requre targetting. The only thing that Earthgore helps healers with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard healing.

Let's be honest. Can't we same the same about every proc set for DPS players such as Skoria, etc? Can't we just replace Earthgore in your last sentence there with almost any DPS proc set and change healer to DPS to have the same outcome.

The only thing that Skoria helps DPS with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard damage dealing.

I mean isn't using those sets to increase DPS just carrying that person to look like they are more damaging and bad ass than they really are? Oh and it makes killing stuff easier! Those sets proc a hell of a lot more than earthgore...

The problem with Earthgore is in PVP, plain and simple. There might be a small group of leet doodz that can run vet DLC dungeons and Trials without a healer and only an Earthgore tank but I bet the majority would get mopped up without a healer saving their ass. I'd even wager they wouldn't care less if Earthgore saved them or Healing ward. They'd just be glad they made it to the end to tell the tale.

Wow looks like there is some competition on taking things out of context and twisting them on that forum. Is skoria proccing when You need it the most and on enemie that You need it the most to proc ? Because that is what earthgore is doing with healing.

But yeah lets keep to Your idea of comparing healing sets to damaging sets 1 to 1. If there would be a damaging set that proc 30k+ bleed (since heals also do not scale from penetrations) AoE dmg in 6 seconds on the ground and would disable some buff on enemies inside it with 35 second cooldown would that set be ok for You ?

I'm not trying to take things out of context I'm just trying to prove that all of these proc sets are a crutch when it boils down to it. Be it healing, damage mitigation, or damage procs. When I run as DPS on my magden, Skoria procs multiple times within 35 seconds and 2 gets me around 30k. I'd Venture to say I get 3-4 procs in 35 seconds which is well over a 30k heal. Of course I'm talking PVE here. Truth is I'd be fine if all proc sets were pulled but they're not so I try and enjoy them for what they are and try to use them to shore up deficiencies in my build or class.

Juhasow

Zardayne wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.

In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.

Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?

That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.

The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.

Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.

Someone obviously does not play as a healer...

I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.

Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies.

Nah. What you will learn (and quickly) is this fantasy of yours that our heals track allies is just that - a fantasy. There is a reason so many healers use Earthgore. If it was half as easy to keep track of everyone on the battlefield and heal them quickly during an emergency then that would not be the case. But you can pretend we're all just "bad healers" who need a crutch if it makes you feel better. But the truth is this is a real weakness in the healer's tool kit and Earthgore helps mitigate it.

That reason is if they wouldnt use earthgore they would be useless because at that point tank can start using earthgore and be more effective healer then the actual healer. This sets just disables any need to use brain and eyes because the most important role that healer is responsible for which is saving allies from "oh crap" moments will be done by the set. This is why 4 man content is so easily cleared with 3 DDs and tank using earthgore ( I personally got vBRP flawless run that way). It is easy to keep track on allies as a healer people just want to make it easier with earthgore because why not. If You have some pugs in Your group just use simple combo of mutagen+healing ward that's all both abilities will not requre targetting. The only thing that Earthgore helps healers with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard healing.

Let's be honest. Can't we same the same about every proc set for DPS players such as Skoria, etc? Can't we just replace Earthgore in your last sentence there with almost any DPS proc set and change healer to DPS to have the same outcome.

The only thing that Skoria helps DPS with is just lowering amount of brain cells needed to be good at already not that hard damage dealing.

I mean isn't using those sets to increase DPS just carrying that person to look like they are more damaging and bad ass than they really are? Oh and it makes killing stuff easier! Those sets proc a hell of a lot more than earthgore...

The problem with Earthgore is in PVP, plain and simple. There might be a small group of leet doodz that can run vet DLC dungeons and Trials without a healer and only an Earthgore tank but I bet the majority would get mopped up without a healer saving their ass. I'd even wager they wouldn't care less if Earthgore saved them or Healing ward. They'd just be glad they made it to the end to tell the tale.

Wow looks like there is some competition on taking things out of context and twisting them on that forum. Is skoria proccing when You need it the most and on enemie that You need it the most to proc ? Because that is what earthgore is doing with healing.

But yeah lets keep to Your idea of comparing healing sets to damaging sets 1 to 1. If there would be a damaging set that proc 30k+ bleed (since heals also do not scale from penetrations) AoE dmg in 6 seconds on the ground and would disable some buff on enemies inside it with 35 second cooldown would that set be ok for You ?

I'm not trying to take things out of context I'm just trying to prove that all of these proc sets are a crutch when it boils down to it. Be it healing, damage mitigation, or damage procs. When I run as DPS on my magden, Skoria procs multiple times within 35 seconds and 2 gets me around 30k. I'd Venture to say I get 3-4 procs in 35 seconds which is well over a 30k heal. Of course I'm talking PVE here. Truth is I'd be fine if all proc sets were pulled but they're not so I try and enjoy them for what they are and try to use them to shore up deficiencies in my build or class.

Earthgore is problematic in both PvE and PvP because it disables brain usage and oversimplifies healing in most important moments of it. You cannot say that currently existing damaging monster sets like skoria oversimplify DPSing the way earthgore is doing that to healing. You can get close to the same result without those damaging monster helmets and I dont think so there is any damaging monster set You would be able to give someone impresion "woof good that I had it because otherwise my team wouldnt kill that boss" but there is lot of situations where You can say " woof that earthgore just saved us".

Dont forget that skoria is single target set that deals significantly less AoE dmg and in way smaller area plus it is reduced by resistances something that heals are not effected by so if we would have damaging version of earthgore with bleed dmg it would propably do more single target DPS then skoria on single target and way more in AoE. Damaging earthgore would propably also disable boss AoEs on the ground. Also lets not forget that earthgore procs in the moment when it's needed the most so it's basically like skoria magically would proc always on the enemie You want at the moment You want it to proc despite multiple enemies being affected by Your DoTs. Comparing damaging sets and healing sets 1 to 1 is just straight silly and misses the point and that skoria argument is more of a meme for me the real argument. Also there is a difference between a crutch and a CRUTCH.

You took things out of context and You proved nothing with that.

Zardayne

kargen27 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

I feel like Earthgore is too unpredictable and has too long of a cooldown for it to be considered "overpowered". Sure it acts as a throwing save in the heat of battle but it still requires proper positioning and utilization. Skilled players can deal with it.

That's why you dont see solo to mid size groups use it in Cyrodiil as they need to move. It's mostly clumped up players you often see turtle up somewhere while they build ultimate then turn and bomb but just zergs use it as well as they have lots of numbers and chances to overlap the proc. Of course I'm not sure this nerf will help that. Probably will just be more of them using it and now it's going to negate a lot more. (not cleanse. There's a difference incase there are anyobe who still doesn't know)

I cant believe pugs in PVE actually make use of it. Dont you have to move a lot out of the red? Maybe just the tank stands there taunting but multiple PUGs moving out of red get hit by this?

I ran it once in Cyrodiil on a night where our guild takes a lot of PvEers around that often are good targets to be bombed and it was comical knowing how easy a particular group usually would blow them up but wiped when they tried in a tight spot. Some fell but usually it was a full wipe for our no crit resist players.

That groups do tend to move around a lot is exactly why it gets used in pugs especially trials. You have players running all over the place. I can keep a tight group alive through the worst of stuff no problem. Even slightly scattered good chance I am keeping them all up. When you have some on a boss, some on a few adds off to one side and another running from an archer he was attacking in the back somewhere it is nice to have that blood shower from time to time hit a few of them.

One thing that blood cloud does for me is when it goes off over someone away from group I might not have seen I can tell them after the fight if they stay nearer the group I can keep them alive easier. I like running trials with pugs sometimes because it offers a unique challenge when not everybody knows what they are doing. Earthgore can come in handy for that.

I agree with this totally and when I get into a pug that likes to scatter all over during fights I tend to run earthgore over Bogdan. With an experienced group that keeps it tight I prefer Bogdan any day. Back in the day without monster sets we used what we had and made it work. Nowadays some of these Vet DLCs have us a lot more spread out and there's some big hitters. Couple that with some pug players who are running and rolling and diving all over it can get chaotic.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

The purposed rumor will make it useless in pve content.

not rly...when im tanking my earthgore procs on the random players I dont want to support cuz they shouldn't die in the 1st place and I dont pug( yes use ur damn vigors properly!) besides if it would be made single target depends how...if its only for the user that would be good if it would be on a random target depending who is at 50% that would be literally worst...cuz I know a V!@#$%a Plant helm that can do far better...with a less CD and a higher heal overall also the only bad part on that is cuz it can proc randomly...literally ignoring the 5% hp tank and heals the 90% hp dd that is safe and sound at max range from all harm :V cuz logic

Vicarra

To say that Earthgore "simplifies healing" or "removes the need to use braincells" or "replaces healers" is to deliberately gloss over the fact that the wearer does not get to control how or when or where it procs.

Lokirules

If Pvers really want someone to blame for the Earthgore Nerf don’t blame the Ball groups of Cryo blame the great 1vXs who expect to one shot Zerglings and then Tbag them

Lab3360

I call bs on all of it

IMO devs arr making tje changr likely because something in the new class will make it op or devs have found a backdoor manner to implement it in New class.

This is typical marketing for companies like these.

They wave the carrot to get you to buy the content. Then they nerf it because they duplicate elsewhere to induce purchase of content.

Remember Major Mending for Templar?
Who has Major Mending passive now?
Remeber Major Toughness under
Alliance War Skill line?

What class has Major Toughness now?

Olupajmibanan

Tasear wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.

But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.

You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.

Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.

Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.

Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?

Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.

People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.

Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run

Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference

Half population of healers use it. Using fallicies doesn't help case against earthgore.

You can apply crutch set to any healing set, including nightflame.

Nightflame as dominate healing set if earthgore changes go through will have imbalance in proc ratios between classes of healers.

Troll King will cause issues against vampires in groups. It will do exactly what earthgore did but better as long as no vampires. You will miss that cooldown.

Chokethron heals individual more per sec then earthgore.

Blades will be in a better spot, but progression needs more heals over resources.

This will be cascading effects after earthgore changes.

On a side note, this rumor feels false. There's no way devs didn't realize what negating all effects will do to gameplay after curse eater crisis. Then you still want to sell dlc and effectiveness is silly in pve.

Sentinel of Rkugamz would be good option for healers too if it weren't bugged atm. I've made a report here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/467749/sentinel-of-rkugamz-spawn-location-bug

Unified_Gaming

On xbox EU, this set is a massive pain in the *** in pvp. If you fight out numbered and time ultimates to drop a group or part of a zerg, the moment earthgore procs it usually saves them and results in your group being out of ult for defensive play. This is the same story in bgs with premades too.

As for PvE, earthgore is very useful but it sadly doesn't enourage people to learn mechanics fully or simply allows them to survive in situations that don't seem intended. In one instance, I watched a group do vet scale caller and the poison boss had the vents shooting poison and the tank didn't move onto it quick enough but he had earthgore and not a single person died as it bought him about 4 seconds to actually get to the right place.

The set in its current form is unbalanced for pvp massively and makes players get away with more than they should in dungeons - not so much for trials however.

Mr_Walker

Nerf sorcs?