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Earthgore.... is it heading for nerfdom?
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Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.Edited by Jeremy on April 10, 2019 6:37PM5 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭New earthgore. It'll now remove all ground effects but heal only 1 ally.
Edited by Juhasow on April 10, 2019 6:37PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull in certain types of content. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?Edited by Juhasow on April 10, 2019 6:39PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?
That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?
That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.1 -
Vicarra✭✭✭✭✭Could not agree more with Jeremy. As someone who is frequently in lfg groups in Sotha, where I am sometimes the only healer (or one of perhaps two to three), we are frequently pitted against organised ball groups, or emp groups, where a fortunate and well-placed EG proc is the only thing that keeps enough people up and alive to turn the tide of battle helps us against the zerg. I don't heal in dungeons, because I don't care to do dungeons, where you have to conform to the cookie-cutter playestyle or be kicked. But as a magsorc healer, EG is the only thing that helps me to be even remotely effective on a large and widely spread battlefield where no one wants to be a healer and the skill level of those involved is mixed, and often not good. I do not want to be pigeonholed into having to play a templar just to be able to heal effectively, and EG is one of the sets that gives me the freedom to "play my way".
Often it doesn't proc when it's needed. Usually it procs on someone who doesn't need it, or someone who doesn't know what it is and rolls away, or it procs at the start of a fight before anyone is even seriously hurt, or procs on someone who's already dead. When it's badly timed, nothing is going to save us against a zerg. But sometimes, very occasionally, it procs exactly when I need a lifeline, and it lets me cast something else, either another heal on a different part of the fight, or a time stop, or a root, or something else to support my team. While it's true that it's beloved by idiot ball groups, it's also beloved by people like me, who fight outnumbered most of the time, where it's saved my ass or my group enough times to make it worthwhile running over something that offers flat healing %. When you're the only healer in a group of 24, where no one is bunched up or behaving like you want them to, you need every tool in the box at your disposal.
Edited by Vicarra on April 10, 2019 6:46PMPAWS - Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff!
Haakon Stormblade - Nord Illusionist, Dwemer scholar, Horse Whisperer, Bringer of Storms6 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
Half population of healers use it. Using fallicies doesn't help case against earthgore.
You can apply crutch set to any healing set, including nightflame.
Nightflame as dominate healing set if earthgore changes go through will have imbalance in proc ratios between classes of healers.
Troll King will cause issues against vampires in groups. It will do exactly what earthgore did but better as long as no vampires. You will miss that cooldown.
Chokethron heals individual more per sec then earthgore.
Blades will be in a better spot, but progression needs more heals over resources.
This will be cascading effects after earthgore changes.
On a side note, this rumor feels false. There's no way devs didn't realize what negating all effects will do to gameplay after curse eater crisis. Then you still want to sell dlc and effectiveness is silly in pve.2 -
angelncelestine✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I was thinking the same thing. Back when I started healing we didnt even use monster sets. There was no room to. We still managed to do our job. O.o For those of you that are claiming that we all run in organized groups, and not pugs. I am the healer I am today because I chose to pug dungeons so that I could learn how to handle any situation. At that time I had no monster set whatsoever. Just throwing out something helpful for those of you that don't play Templars.. Rapids/mutagen and healing ward are great skills to use for those chickens running around with there heads cut off . :-)1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?
That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.
Someone obviously does not play as a healer...
I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.5 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Shhh. Let people think that once this is changed all of a sudden Tank / DPS group will die out. I would rather my DPS with burst heal skill that is competitive both in Mana/hp ratio and heal <Since over heals don't really matter> against purely specced healers without having to spec into healing at all not be nerfed.1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?8 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Shhh. Let people think that once this is changed all of a sudden Tank / DPS group will die out. I would rather my DPS with burst heal skill that is competitive both in Mana/hp ratio and heal <Since over heals don't really matter> against purely specced healers without having to spec into healing at all not be nerfed.
I had a lot of time to think about that issue. I think there should be 3 dps groups even four just wish it costed them more to do so then it does now. That would let people be Happy on both sides.0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭angelncelestine wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I was thinking the same thing. Back when I started healing we didnt even use monster sets. There was no room to. We still managed to do our job. O.o For those of you that are claiming that we all run in organized groups, and not pugs. I am the healer I am today because I chose to pug dungeons so that I could learn how to handle any situation. At that time I had no monster set whatsoever. Just throwing out something helpful for those of you that don't play Templars.. Rapids/mutagen and healing ward are great skills to use for those chickens running around with there heads cut off . :-)
I did the same thing when the game released on PC and I was healing on my DK. Sure we had no monster sets and I healed like a madman but it would quite foolish of me to not use newer more efficient items and skills as they become available. There's no reason to keep treading the hard road if an easier route becomes available just so I (or you)can prove to everyone were better because we like to continue to work harder.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The game should just enforce the balance in a group - 2 DPS a healer and a tank for dungeons.Edited by TequilaFire on April 10, 2019 7:06PM1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?
That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.
Someone obviously does not play as a healer...
I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.
Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies. Seriously game makes healing so easy You would've to play without monitor to have issues with targeting allies with heals.Edited by Juhasow on April 10, 2019 7:08PM2 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
Half population of healers use it. Using fallicies doesn't help case against earthgore.
You can apply crutch set to any healing set, including nightflame.
Nightflame as dominate healing set if earthgore changes go through will have imbalance in proc ratios between classes of healers.
Troll King will cause issues against vampires in groups. It will do exactly what earthgore did but better as long as no vampires. You will miss that cooldown.
Chokethron heals individual more per sec then earthgore.
Blades will be in a better spot, but progression needs more heals over resources.
This will be cascading effects after earthgore changes.
On a side note, this rumor feels false. There's no way devs didn't realize what negating all effects will do to gameplay after curse eater crisis. Then you still want to sell dlc and effectiveness is silly in pve.
How can you honestly defend earthgore when you’re the class rep who pushed for the shield changes because healers felt useless because of shields? This set literally makes healers more useless than shields. Be honest with yourself, for once.6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?
That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.
Someone obviously does not play as a healer...
I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.
Somebody obviously does not know how to adapt while playing healer. I suggest You to slot mutagen and healing ward while running with pugs or stay behind the team and use BoL. You'll learn pretty fast how heals track allies.
Nah. What you will learn (and quickly) is this fantasy of yours that our heals track allies is just that - a fantasy. There is a reason so many healers use Earthgore. If it was half as easy to keep track of everyone on the battlefield and heal them quickly during an emergency then that would not be the case. But you can pretend we're all just "bad healers" who need a crutch if it makes you feel better. But the truth is this is a real weakness in the healer's tool kit and Earthgore helps mitigate it.Edited by Jeremy on April 10, 2019 7:15PM2 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.
Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.
There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.Edited by Jeremy on April 10, 2019 7:24PM4 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.
Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.
There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.
1) completely ruin the entire landscape of the game for 1 set, pure brilliance by you.
2) good healers do and can and this game has so much smart healing that the fact you even bring this up is embarrassing. Try healing other MMOs then get back to me.
Carry set is a carry set. No end game trial guild runs it.6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.
Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.
There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.
1) completely ruin the entire landscape of the game for 1 set, pure brilliance by you.
2) good healers do and can and this game has so much smart healing that the fact you even bring this up is embarrassing. Try healing other MMOs then get back to me.
Carry set is a carry set. No end game trial guild runs it.
1) I did not say to ruin the entire landscape of the game. So that made no sense.
2) Now you are just contradicting yourself. You just said that "good healers' complain about Earthgore because it makes them useless in four man content. YOu can't have it both ways.
And I have healed in many other MMORPGS. And this is the only MMORPG I have ever played that requires people to stand in a circle or for you to stare at your target to heal them. So thank you for bringing that up. It just makes my point for me.Edited by Jeremy on April 10, 2019 7:32PM5 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I might would agree with you if not the fact so many of the fights on this game actually encourage players to run around like headless chickens.
In any case - Earthgore is not a "crutch set". It's a smart set for healers and is useful to them - which is the purpose of a set. Why isn't it considered a "crutch set" for DPS players to use monster sets that give extra damage? It's a ridiculous logic.
Funnily enough earthgore is actually what makes healers less usefull. Why You would need a healer if tank or DD with that set can replace him in most "oh crap" moments ?
That's only true if other players in the group assume some of the responsibly of healing themselves - which would be true with or without Earthgore.
The problem here isn't Earthgore. The problem is it's often easier for DPS to heal themselves during oh crap moments then for the healer to track them down and heal them. Which brings me back to the original post.
Yeah tracking allies is so hard in the game which automatically tracks allies with heals lel.
Someone obviously does not play as a healer...
I suggest you go heal some pugs for awhile. You'll learn pretty fast how well heals "track" allies.
Esspecially with players like me who try to survive high damage AoE's2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.
Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.
There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.
Sorry, communication, and better use of healing spells are needed. If end game healers can figure it out, so can the pugs lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.
Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.
There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.
Sorry, communication, and better use of healing spells are needed. If end game healers can figure it out, so can the pugs lol.
But they haven't figured it out (because there is nothing to figure out). As even the defenders of this nerf have mistakenly admitted - even the "good healers" are complaining about how earthgore makes them useless (it was shields before that and it will be something else after). Why is that if they are such amazingly good healers even according to them? I"ll tell you why - because no matter how good the healer is he or she cannot be in multiple places at the same time dropping circles underneath everyone or facing in multiple directions at once. Therefore it will always be quicker and safer for a DPS to heal themselves in an emergency instead of relying on a healer to do it - especially on a chaotic fight where everyone is spread about dealing with adds or mechanics.
This isn't a hard issue to understand. The reason healers have a harder time being relevant on this game when compared to other MMORPGs is because there are directional and positional restrains put on their healing spells which are not placed on healers in other games. And if you have ever done an "endgame" trial you'll know "endgame healers" basically just beg for players to stack the whole time.... so they are no better at healing a group that is spread out all over the place than other healers are. Otherwise they would not be telling everyone to stack.Edited by Jeremy on April 10, 2019 7:57PM8 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
I guess now good healers are those being those blessed with be able to run in pre-mades where your experienced tank knows to bring his resto staff. There are a lot of good healers who PUG too and those of us that do are usually not so lucky to have a great geared tank that enters the group finder ready to use his resto staff. In all of the PUGs I have ran as healer I can only think of one time where I wasn't needed as full time healer/buffer and that's because the tank we had was truly very well geared and experienced. He told me he had it and I flipped over to DPS and we cleared house. Truth is that hardly ever happens for us good healers living the lowly pug life.
It still amazes me that a tank with a resto bar and earthgore can make a healer feel useless. Hell if I'm not laying out the heals I'm throwing out damage, orbs, and other buffs like crazy. I don't think I've ever felt useless.
Edited by Zardayne on April 10, 2019 8:02PM2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
It’s been explained. Good healers complain about it because it makes them useless in all 4 man content in this game. Literally a tank can wear this set with a back bar resto build with 3 dps.You know I can see the complaints of Earthgore in PVP. I face it all the time in Cyrodiil and it's ridiculous in big groups. PVP folks should really be the only ones complaining about Earthgore.
What I think is absolutely funny is the fact that some people who PVE are complaining about it and calling it an OP set and unnecessary and if you use it you must suck . Call me old school or whatever, but I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and been a PnP player many years prior to that. When it comes to PVE in video or Pen & Pencil gaming it's always been to complete the objective (Dungeon/World Boss/Big Baddie with all means available. Why in the hell are people complaining about this set from a pve standpoint is beyond me. Maybe it makes them feel elite and special and they want everyone to know just how billy badass they are. Who really cares if it's a crutch set? If someone feels it shores up their builds deficiency what does it matter?
As I mentioned earlier and got no response..Should we now look at proc damage sets our dps are running and call them out for using their available crutches (of course not)?
Again: the issue here is not Earthgore. The issue is it's often easier for the DPS to heal themselves during an emergency than to rely on the healer to do it. Because it doesn't matter how "good" the healer is. The odds of him or her being able to heal a DPS - (especially a DPS who is on the other side of the room dealing with some mechanic or chasing down an add) faster than the DPS could heal themselves is remote.
Nerfing Earthgore is not going to fix this problem. Just like nerfing shields did not fix this problem.
There are only two ways to fix this problem. 1. Make it to where DPS cannot effectively and quickly heal themselves. 2. Make it to where the healer can effectively and quickly heal a DPS regardless of their position on their battlefield. Otherwise nothing is going to fix this problem unless they want to start redesigning their fights.
Sorry, communication, and better use of healing spells are needed. If end game healers can figure it out, so can the pugs lol.
But they haven't figured it out (because there is nothing to figure out). As even the defenders of this nerf have mistakenly admitted - even the "good healers" are complaining about how earthgore makes them useless (it was shields before that and it will be something else after). Why is that if they are such amazingly good healers even according to them? I"ll tell you why - because no matter how good the healer is he or she cannot be in multiple places at the same time or facing in multiple directions at once. Therefore it will always be quicker and safer for a DPS to heal themselves in an emergency instead of relying on a healer to do it - especially on a chaotic fight where everyone is spread about dealing with adds or mechanics.
This isn't a hard issue to understand. The reason healers have a harder time being relevant on this game when compared to other MMORPGs is because there are directional and positional restrains put on their healing spells which are not placed on healers in other games. And if you have ever done an "endgame" trial you'll know "endgame healers" basically just beg for players to stack the whole time.... so they are no better at healing a group that is spread out all over the place than other healers are.
Sounds like a great game though. I wish more games forced you to think about skill/teammate placement!Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
angelncelestine✭✭✭✭
I am sorry if that came across the wrong way. I in no way meant to imply that you need to heal without the luxury of the monster sets that we can use today. Healers deserve cool stuff to. I am just trying to help people understand that the sky isn't falling because they may or may not be nerfing EG. Really imo people should be looking at it more as a good thing.angelncelestine wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »@jeremy I agree. A bad healer is just as bad with or without.
But I never said otherwise. What I said is that it gives an effective alternative to a bad healer in many situations.
You may not have been saying it. But a lot of people in this thread were. They were acting like Earthgore was so overpowered all a healer had to do was slap it on and that would forgo the need to use any other abilities - which is just so absurd. And that was what that post you responded to of mine was addressing.
Good healers don’t use it, plain and simple.
Perhaps you've never healed PUGs with non templar class (One without a smart heal). The other classes don't have the luxury of breath of life instantly bailing us out even though you can't see your target. When I'm on my warden you had better be in my heal's cone (shrooms) or AOE (seeds) if you need some burst but in a pug these folks can be running all chaotic. Earthgore can give one of the healers classes some "smart" burst heal for emergencies that our class isn't built with. I switch between Earthgore and Nightflame depending on how the pugs acting.
Then again according to you those of us healers that do use Earthgore obviously aren't leet enough to be real healers. Should I say the same when a DPS chooses to run Skoria?
Definitely. It's even useful to Templars now since they changed Breath of Life to where you have to see them as well.
People who do not play as healers - especially in pugs (and I would suggest that's a majority of the people posting in favor of these nerfs) don't realize just how useful a heal like this is. Because our base tool kits really gives us nothing to effectively deal with situations where people are running all over the place in different directions (often with mobs chasing them) and needing heals to stay alive. They assume everyone stands in our area of effects or ideally positions themselves for heals when that's rarely the case - especially during chaotic fights.
Sorry to break it to you but if your group is running around like headless chickens then they shouldn’t be succeeding. Players scraping by with those awful habits only reinforces them which will only do them a disservice in the long run
Earthgore is a crutch set. Good healers did without before, they can do without now. It’ll sure be easier to tell the difference
I was thinking the same thing. Back when I started healing we didnt even use monster sets. There was no room to. We still managed to do our job. O.o For those of you that are claiming that we all run in organized groups, and not pugs. I am the healer I am today because I chose to pug dungeons so that I could learn how to handle any situation. At that time I had no monster set whatsoever. Just throwing out something helpful for those of you that don't play Templars.. Rapids/mutagen and healing ward are great skills to use for those chickens running around with there heads cut off . :-)
I did the same thing when the game released on PC and I was healing on my DK. Sure we had no monster sets and I healed like a madman but it would quite foolish of me to not use newer more efficient items and skills as they become available. There's no reason to keep treading the hard road if an easier route becomes available just so I (or you)can prove to everyone were better because we like to continue to work harder.2 -
bzz86✭✭✭✭Its sort of funny how much discussion this topic has spark ;-)
Even nerfed with the screen shot presented earlier that it heals only 1 pax with 35sec CD it might still be good in some single player or dungeon content. As for trials it might be situational with clear tank focus but probably if nerfed replaced by something like Bogdan I guess.
Either way I will still keep it for some setups.0 -
GloryClass RepresentativeAssuming incoming changes are as rumored/pictured- Earthgore will still be crazy strong in PvP due to ground effect removal
- Almost all PvE content in this game does not require any healers whatsoever, with or without this set. Core exceptions being trials and a few veteran 4-mans (but most still easily 3DPS+tank)
- Sets that save wipes by doing something because you did not are not healthy for the game
- Most healing in PvE is so watered down due to most mechanics being one-shot or not. Thus, healers now are mostly buff-bots + a few heals
It's a little sad to see that healers really think a set that eliminates the core reason you exist should exist in this game. There are healthy sets for healers in this game (Sanctuary, Olorime, Transmutation, etc.), which provide advantages to you as a healer by buffing your healing/buffing allies strength/sturdiness. And there are sets that do the work for you.
This set is doing to healers exactly what the Procalypse did to damage dealers - it takes away gameplay elements from you in exchange for doing the job for you. You're no longer playing the game - your gear is.
When you finish a challenging content - whether it's a normal dungeon, a veteran dungeon, a perfect trial, a PvP raid (depending on player skill and preferences) - don't you want to look back and say "dang, my heals were ON POINT! I saved that guy!" instead of "well Earthgore healed my ally before I could."
It's so cool to be a healer in a meta where your allies are saying "man you're healing is OP, thanks for keeping us alive." And it feels terrible to be in one where you're not even needed in veteran dungeons anymore because a set will do your job instead.mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock4