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Earthgore.... is it heading for nerfdom?
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HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Once again, I would just like to reiterate for the benefit of people who hate proc heal sets in all situations and want to replace everything with flat buffs:
This approach does NOT work for no-CP pvp, including BGs. Just because YOU like PVE and don't take part in something, doesn't mean you can dismiss it. Given the massive number of proc damage sets (which y'all aren't complaining about), and the prevalence of burst NB builds in PVP, a lucky proc heal can mean the difference between survival and being 2-shot by some cheesy lethal arrow spammer.
If you need an earth gore proc to survive a snipe spammer you are doing it wrong.
Sincerely,
A fellow BG and no CP Cyrodiil playerPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK3 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Once again, I would just like to reiterate for the benefit of people who hate proc heal sets in all situations and want to replace everything with flat buffs:
This approach does NOT work for no-CP pvp, including BGs. Just because YOU like PVE and don't take part in something, doesn't mean you can dismiss it. Given the massive number of proc damage sets (which y'all aren't complaining about), and the prevalence of burst NB builds in PVP, a lucky proc heal can mean the difference between survival and being 2-shot by some cheesy lethal arrow spammer.
Given that in BGs it is very unrealistic to wipe a group as soon as a single earthgore proccs, i find the set to be even more frustrating to play against there than anywhere else.Jo'Khaljor2 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PVP whiners are the only people who like this change. And people who never play healers.
Exactly anything that hurts the solo PvP experience is turned to useless for groups. So healers actually saved lives in PvP so let's Nerf them? I am tried of group play not being considered with changes.
This change has nothing to do with solo-PvP, and actually has group PvP more in mind than anything. As it stands now you can have a 24 man raid that should die when they are rightfully outplayed being saved by a ridiculous amount of Earthgore procs going off. That 24 man raid can sit there stacking on flags over and over and over and be untouchable by siege, timed ult bombs, and are completely excused for every single mistake them make due to....Earthgore. This, then, brings up issues because (unless an actual organized guild group is on and in that exact location to fight them, which isn't always the case) they can go and roll the map around and the rest of the players that are trying to fight them can't do anything at all.
This is just one example.
Another example does delve into the small-scale experience. If 2-4 people are coordinating ultimates, playing the fight against the other group that's outnumbering them in a smart manner, are fully outplaying the other group, why should a 2-piece monster helm save that other group? They didn't use any strategy to be saved, they didn't do anything but equip a 2-piece helm that negates ultimates and aoe heals for a ridiculous amount.
So, again, why should Earthgore, a 2-piece, "outplay" actual strategy? Why should it also carry players who aren't actually doing anything?
I PvP healed from group sizes for 4-16 for a long time as well; even when Earthgore was originally overpowered I still healed on a magicka Warden with Bloodspawn equipped and didn't need to bother with it. So why is it, now, that there's healers saying they need it and it'll be the end of the world for them? Learn to position yourself, learn where you should and shouldn't be in your groups as a healer. Learn how to get out of negate bombs instead of standing there and waiting for a 2-piece set to save you.
People are defending an absolutely broken set by claiming it's super mega important for PvE and that it "saves people in PvP so why should it be taken away," and that's exactly how sets like this stay broken for so long.
Again, there's not just one specific group in PvP that Earthgore was hurting more than another - it is unhealthy in every aspect for PvP. And, no, the devs don't want to balance PvE and PvP separately, and they've said they didn't want to, so, if we care about this game, we do need to look at how sets affect both environments.
PvE will be fine without Earthgore being as strong as it is now. PvP will be better once it's adjusted. Blaming and segregating different groups of players for a nerf that is needed isn't the way we should be going to reinforce this community as a whole.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.9 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This change makes sense. For example Zaan provides dps bonus comparable to AOE ultimate but only on single target and with limitation in range. New Earthgore will provide ultimate-level healing on single target and still AOE purge. Still will be strong in dynamic combats when people are not in stack and viable in PVP.
No, everyone will just switch to Templar and use Chokethorn / Troll King and use cleanse and forget about Earthgore.
LOL as if those sets are even close even after the proposed nerf. We are talking a set that provides ultimate level heals and an ultimate ability to negate...to a sappling that heales for 25% less without the extra, and a set that gives 1500 health recovery and is washed out by vamp.1 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Once again, I would just like to reiterate for the benefit of people who hate proc heal sets in all situations and want to replace everything with flat buffs:
This approach does NOT work for no-CP pvp, including BGs. Just because YOU like PVE and don't take part in something, doesn't mean you can dismiss it. Given the massive number of proc damage sets (which y'all aren't complaining about), and the prevalence of burst NB builds in PVP, a lucky proc heal can mean the difference between survival and being 2-shot by some cheesy lethal arrow spammer.
Removal all proc sets. Problem solved. These trash no skill sets that encourage effortless gameplay are unhealthy for both PvP and pve0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I will still be using Earthgore after these changes go live.
Right, because it removes all ground effects in its proc with the changes.
This is something I seriously hope the devs look at and remove. I think limiting Earthgore to removing one ground effect still is a lot more balanced. That, or they remove the ability for Earthgore to negate ultimates completely. No 2-piece should remove ultimates, I'll stand by that; it's a completely ridiculous concept.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.1 -
DLM✭✭✭✭✭A screenshot was leaked a couple of weeks ago.
(1 item) Adds 4% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal yourself or an ally under 50% health, you conjure a pool of quenching blood underneath them, immediately removing all previous enemy placed effects, and healing the lowest Health ally in the area for 31200 Health over 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 35 seconds.
You're welcome.
Lame. Time to switch to another set then.
Honestly I see so many people thinking that this is a bad AOE and getting out of it that it won't make much of a difference.Edited by DLM on April 10, 2019 12:31PM0 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep in mind that after another Nerf to Earthgore where it only heals one player every Zergling will have Earthgore. So what did this upcoming Nerf accomplish? I guess it placates those screaming for it to be nerfed until they see it is still "overperforming" in their eyes as every Zergling wears it as they Zerg through Keeps and Resources.
Players adapt to all the Nerfs and simply change what they wear or how many players in their groups wear a certain Monster set. Soon we will see in these very same threads people complaining about whatever healing Monster set becomes the new norm in PVP.
Oh, and also keep in mind that many, many PVP players (and PVE) got their Earthgore head piece from the Golden Vendor when it was there for 100K Gold or whatever the AP cost was. I am certain most PVP players did not spend the time in Bloodroot Forge earning that Monster head piece.1 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »One of the greatest changes ZOS has done in this game if it goes through. Set is a hard carry in PvE and PvP.
there are way stronger sets in PVE Endgame now, but it can carry the mid tier raiders, which again is a nerf for them.
in hightier PVE ther are already only the DoM set and maybe some bogdan arround..so jeah
nerf for PVP and PVE low / mid tier
Yeah, normal ZOS modus operandi at work here if this comes true: nerf stuff without any regards for midtear players.
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They can change Earthgore, I'm fine with that since it's clearly the most OP-est group healing set in PvP, I guess we'll just have to use Bogdan for the very first time ever even though it's not as good and could use a buff. Stay focused on worrying about EG and getting that super strong, 35 second cooldown set dealt with.0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A screenshot was leaked a couple of weeks ago.
(1 item) Adds 4% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal yourself or an ally under 50% health, you conjure a pool of quenching blood underneath them, immediately removing all previous enemy placed effects, and healing the lowest Health ally in the area for 31200 Health over 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 35 seconds.
You're welcome.
Lame. Time to switch to another set then.
Yes. Sadly, another set that will go completely unused. If that’s true, a total waste of 2 slots.0 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Idea
Reduce its healing power by 50%
Only negate 1 effect but not ultimate
Keep the same cooldown
Stay an aoe heal0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This change makes sense. For example Zaan provides dps bonus comparable to AOE ultimate but only on single target and with limitation in range. New Earthgore will provide ultimate-level healing on single target and still AOE purge. Still will be strong in dynamic combats when people are not in stack and viable in PVP.
No, everyone will just switch to Templar and use Chokethorn / Troll King and use cleanse and forget about Earthgore.
LOL as if those sets are even close even after the proposed nerf. We are talking a set that provides ultimate level heals and an ultimate ability to negate...to a sappling that heales for 25% less without the extra, and a set that gives 1500 health recovery and is washed out by vamp.
Extended Ritual from Templar's skill line will instanty heal your group in the 18m radius and it will remove up to 5 negative effects including those comming from any ultimate, heal your group for 18s and it provides Purifing synergy which can remove negative effects and it provides instant healing. It has no cooldown, instant cast time, no proc requirements and low cost of 4320 magika. It has also another morph which damages enemies. So tell me, why I should use Earthgore anymore, if I can simply play Templar? This nerf hits all other healing classes than Templar, he was meta before, but now he will be a necessity in any organised PVP/PVE group.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This change makes sense. For example Zaan provides dps bonus comparable to AOE ultimate but only on single target and with limitation in range. New Earthgore will provide ultimate-level healing on single target and still AOE purge. Still will be strong in dynamic combats when people are not in stack and viable in PVP.
No, everyone will just switch to Templar and use Chokethorn / Troll King and use cleanse and forget about Earthgore.
LOL as if those sets are even close even after the proposed nerf. We are talking a set that provides ultimate level heals and an ultimate ability to negate...to a sappling that heales for 25% less without the extra, and a set that gives 1500 health recovery and is washed out by vamp.
Extended Ritual from Templar's skill line will instanty heal your group in the 18m radius and it will remove up to 5 negative effects including those comming from any ultimate, heal your group for 18s and it provides Purifing synergy which can remove negative effects and it provides instant healing. It has no cooldown, instant cast time, no proc requirements and low cost of 4320 magika. It has also another morph which damages enemies. So tell me, why I should use Earthgore anymore, if I can simply play Templar? This nerf hits all other healing classes than Templar, he was meta before, but now he will be a necessity in any organised PVP/PVE group.
LMAO! OK. Roll templar if you think it does that. You clearly have no idea the difference of removing negative effects and a full negate, nor do you realize the difference between 30k heals and whatever ER does. HAHAHA9 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This change makes sense. For example Zaan provides dps bonus comparable to AOE ultimate but only on single target and with limitation in range. New Earthgore will provide ultimate-level healing on single target and still AOE purge. Still will be strong in dynamic combats when people are not in stack and viable in PVP.
No, everyone will just switch to Templar and use Chokethorn / Troll King and use cleanse and forget about Earthgore.
LOL as if those sets are even close even after the proposed nerf. We are talking a set that provides ultimate level heals and an ultimate ability to negate...to a sappling that heales for 25% less without the extra, and a set that gives 1500 health recovery and is washed out by vamp.
Extended Ritual from Templar's skill line will instanty heal your group in the 18m radius and it will remove up to 5 negative effects including those comming from any ultimate, heal your group for 18s and it provides Purifing synergy which can remove negative effects and it provides instant healing. It has no cooldown, instant cast time, no proc requirements and low cost of 4320 magika. It has also another morph which damages enemies. So tell me, why I should use Earthgore anymore, if I can simply play Templar? This nerf hits all other healing classes than Templar, he was meta before, but now he will be a necessity in any organised PVP/PVE group.
LMAO! OK. Roll templar if you think it does that. You clearly have no idea the difference of removing negative effects and a full negate, nor do you realize the difference between 30k heals and whatever ER does. HAHAHA
Yeah, the comparison is pretty ridiculous xPPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK3 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭LMAO! OK. Roll templar if you think it does that. You clearly have no idea the difference of removing negative effects and a full negate, nor do you realize the difference between 30k heals and whatever ER does. HAHAHA
Sources of healing can stack and it's easy to achieve overheal level on templar, especialy with CP.
As for the "HAHAHA", I invite you for a duel on EU (@Commancho).
Edited by Commancho on April 10, 2019 1:57PM1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LMAO! OK. Roll templar if you think it does that. You clearly have no idea the difference of removing negative effects and a full negate, nor do you realize the difference between 30k heals and whatever ER does. HAHAHA
Sources of healing can stack and it's easy to achieve overheal level on templar, especialy with CP.
As for the "HAHAHA", I invite you for a duel on EU (@Commancho).
LOL dude stop! Just too much ridiculousness and I am embarrassed for you. "How dare you laugh at me comparing ER to Earthgore!" *snicker* "I challenge you to a duel!"1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This change makes sense. For example Zaan provides dps bonus comparable to AOE ultimate but only on single target and with limitation in range. New Earthgore will provide ultimate-level healing on single target and still AOE purge. Still will be strong in dynamic combats when people are not in stack and viable in PVP.
No, everyone will just switch to Templar and use Chokethorn / Troll King and use cleanse and forget about Earthgore.
LOL as if those sets are even close even after the proposed nerf. We are talking a set that provides ultimate level heals and an ultimate ability to negate...to a sappling that heales for 25% less without the extra, and a set that gives 1500 health recovery and is washed out by vamp.
Extended Ritual from Templar's skill line will instanty heal your group in the 18m radius and it will remove up to 5 negative effects including those comming from any ultimate, heal your group for 18s and it provides Purifing synergy which can remove negative effects and it provides instant healing. It has no cooldown, instant cast time, no proc requirements and low cost of 4320 magika. It has also another morph which damages enemies. So tell me, why I should use Earthgore anymore, if I can simply play Templar? This nerf hits all other healing classes than Templar, he was meta before, but now he will be a necessity in any organised PVP/PVE group.
Perfect example of how having a set do the work for you is detrimental to the game overall...1 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LMAO! OK. Roll templar if you think it does that. You clearly have no idea the difference of removing negative effects and a full negate, nor do you realize the difference between 30k heals and whatever ER does. HAHAHA
Sources of healing can stack and it's easy to achieve overheal level on templar, especialy with CP.
As for the "HAHAHA", I invite you for a duel on EU (@Commancho).
LOL dude stop! Just too much ridiculousness and I am embarrassed for you. "How dare you laugh at me comparing ER to Earthgore!" *snicker* "I challenge you to a duel!"
So, let me get this straight. He thinks Ritual provides the kind of burst AOE heal EG does?
My goodness.
The duel part I kind of snickered as well. Bruh. Just stahppp!!1 -
Shalktonin✭✭✭A screenshot was leaked a couple of weeks ago.
(1 item) Adds 4% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal yourself or an ally under 50% health, you conjure a pool of quenching blood underneath them, immediately removing all previous enemy placed effects, and healing the lowest Health ally in the area for 31200 Health over 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 35 seconds.
You're welcome.
Would be a bad move. Chokethorn ba does the exact same thing. Redundant set with rumored change.
Cept Chockethorn is shorter time smaller amount.0 -
kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sweet! Maybe if it gets nerfed, I won't be asked to run people through vBRF anymore.
Anything that brings less focus on having to run these Vet DLC Dungeons, the better.
I would be sad to see it get nerfed in a way since it is a really good set, but we could always adapt.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »LMAO! OK. Roll templar if you think it does that. You clearly have no idea the difference of removing negative effects and a full negate, nor do you realize the difference between 30k heals and whatever ER does. HAHAHA
Sources of healing can stack and it's easy to achieve overheal level on templar, especialy with CP.
As for the "HAHAHA", I invite you for a duel on EU (@Commancho).
LOL dude stop! Just too much ridiculousness and I am embarrassed for you. "How dare you laugh at me comparing ER to Earthgore!" *snicker* "I challenge you to a duel!"
So, let me get this straight. He thinks Ritual provides the kind of burst AOE heal EG does?
My goodness.
The duel part I kind of snickered as well. Bruh. Just stahppp!!
No, he thinks that extended ritual has 28m range while EG has aprox 8m radius. Which means that you dont have to stack with your team, but simply sit comfortable in the back of your zerg group without being bothered by ultimates being thrown at you (such as Negate). Also he thinks that extended ritual doesn't have 35s cooldown. So you can even remove EG from the game entirely and ridiculus heals & cleaning will be still a part of PVP.
I have challanged you for the duel, because I'm tired of nerf-all crybabies, but I guess it wouldn't change nothing, since people like you always will find excuses why someone else performs better than them. Even if you would be playing in the same sets with the same classes you would be still complaining about your internet connection or sun shining through your window.1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »YamiKuruku wrote: »personally i don't like earthgore THAT much but i still have it as a base set next to bodgan and trollking but... tbh no healing monsterset is that overwhelming and earthgore was sometims helpful for oh *** moments or lamia boss in SO, guess we healers cant have some cool stuff without the pvp crowd crying
You are supposed to save the oh **** moment. Not some cheese set doing it for you without effort.
Sounds easier said than done. Try running with Pugs as a Magden healer. My guess is people saying Earthgore isn't needed for healing do not PUG much and have the convenience of a made group with voice coordination.I don't have brainless smart heals to heal the jagoff running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I have to position myself just to make sure they don't die which could ultimately leave the rest of my party as risk. From a Pug running Healer, I like to Run Earthgore (Nightflame too) quite a bit. It's my Oh shite button when herding cats and one gets loose.
I also do quite a bit of PVP and in that environment it's made a mess of things with these ball groups of mindless, aeo spamming wonders. I'm beginning to feel like another poster said, these monster sets might need to be disabled for pvp.
As far as cheese sets doing it for us. Hell everyone runs cheesy proc sets if they got em. From Grothdar, Skoria, Zaan, Blood Spawn, etc. My guess is you have no problems running some of those too.Edited by Zardayne on April 10, 2019 3:22PM2 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭Earthgore is a counter for negate. There is no other way to deal with negates currently other than another negate. All classes should have a way to counter negates, not just sorcerers.1
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Earthgore is a counter for negate. There is no other way to deal with negates currently other than another negate. All classes should have a way to counter negates, not just sorcerers.
You mean you can't walk out of it? What about the rest of your crew; have any stam builds? And earthgore is still going to remove negates lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭A screenshot was leaked a couple of weeks ago.
(1 item) Adds 4% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal yourself or an ally under 50% health, you conjure a pool of quenching blood underneath them, immediately removing all previous enemy placed effects, and healing the lowest Health ally in the area for 31200 Health over 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 35 seconds.
You're welcome.
Fun part worst for PvP and PvE😯
Yes let's negate everything.
Yes let's get rid of only other aoe heal monster set besides nightflame.
Weren’t you one of the most vocal people about healers feeling useless? This set literally made you useless in all 4 man content. Because what would happen is you’d have 3 dps and a tank wearing EG. The raid guilds I know only use Bogdan.Edited by Haashhtaag on April 10, 2019 3:31PM7