Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

BlueRaven

Yes it's P2W.

I think it is.

If I start a new character for PvP and I don’t pay to have all the skyshards unlocked. I will be at a disadvantage compared to someone who had done it.

And btw, at least on one of my characters, I have every skyshard unlocked. Every skyshard.

BNOC

No it's not P2W.

Universe wrote: »

Skyshard packs, monster helm items and skill lines in the crown store etc. is P2W.
The moment it lands in the crown store, I will safely label ESO as P2W game.

Some shortcuts are fine, like upgrading the Riding Speed/Stamina/Capacity and reducing crafting research time, but when the shortcuts are directly related to combat effectiveness and hard earned achievements, it crosses a thin line to the P2W model.
While players will not get exclusive special weapons/power from the new crown store features, they will utilize the crown store to get stronger and skip a lot of normal gameplay & achievements.

Topic is r.e Skyshards which are not pay to win at all - It's a pay to shortcut that which only requires time.

I've always said the same thing - With the removal of Cadwells requirements in 1T, you can go and collect ALL the zone skyshards (excl Cyrodil until 10cmb). You can even collect all of the Lorebooks for 10 MG on a brand new toon, before you did anything else as well if you wanted.
(I know you'd get some exp and level up slightly, but not a lot)

Those things you've mentioned as fine shortcuts, they're not really much different are they if you think about them?
For example: I'd argue that purchasing master crafter at level 1 is a much bigger advantage than having (insert unrealistic, crazy number) skill points, but only being able to apply ~+1 more per gained level than someone who didn't buy them because you unlock lines and their respective skills, manually.

Let's not even talk about the advantage CP has on my 1 day old alt vs BillyGoat7382's 1 day old character - If p2w is a concern r.e this then you've got much bigger fish to fry.

Blinkin8r

Yes it's P2W.

My stamblade has every skyshard in the game. Yes that takes some work, but the edge my stamblade has against other people is because I've put so much time into that character specifically.
Say the new Chapter drops, Me and some other dude make Necros. I buy the skyshard pack, but he can't afford it. Because of this I have all the passives I could ever need, full access to any skills I want, I'm probably able to test all the class skills out before he is, heck I can even put skillpoints into Snakeblood and not care. This gives me a huge edge over this other player who didn't pay. Imo that's pay to win.

Tandor

No it's not P2W.

As you can unlock the skill points ingame, it isn't remotely P2W. However, it's greatly dumbing down the game and simply pandering to those whose approach to alts is that they want everything on their alts and they want it all NOW!

A sad development in my view, but somewhat inevitable given the way the entitlement movement is growing in all walks of life. Not nearly enough to drive me from the game, but perhaps an ominous first step in that direction.

Ertosi

Yes it's P2W.

Skill Points are directly used in combat. Being able to pay to have all additional alts instantly gain those unearned Skill Points is the very definition of pay to win. The fact that you have to "unlock" the ability to do so on another character doesn't change this fact.

Starlock

Yes it's P2W.

BlueRaven wrote: »

I think it is.

If I start a new character for PvP and I don’t pay to have all the skyshards unlocked. I will be at a disadvantage compared to someone who had done it.

And btw, at least on one of my characters, I have every skyshard unlocked. Every skyshard.

Yup. It's pretty disgusting.

As a role-player, the blatant pay-to-win aspect of it doesn't really impact me - and in many respects will make developing new characters an order of magnitude easier - but the fact that they are monetizing this at all makes for a sour flavor.

If this is to be a feature, it SHOULD NOT be monetized. It should be an OPTION for FREE to EVERYONE who has been playing this game for a long time.

zaria

No it's not P2W.

Universe wrote: »

Skyshard packs, monster helm items and skill lines in the crown store etc. is P2W.
The moment it lands in the crown store, I will safely label ESO as P2W game.

Some shortcuts are fine, like upgrading the Riding Speed/Stamina/Capacity and reducing crafting research time, but when the shortcuts are directly related to combat effectiveness and hard earned achievements, it crosses a thin line to the P2W model.
While players will not get exclusive special weapons/power from the new crown store features, they will utilize the crown store to get stronger and skip a lot of normal gameplay & achievements.

Who are talking about monster sets???
The monster set weapons are cosmetic.

Skyshards is not P2W more than horse riding, who is worse as its behind an hard time gate, not just time consuming.
You still need to get the magic guild books who take you all over zones anyway and more zones than needed for skyshards unless you also want to max out crafting.

StormeReigns

No it's not P2W.

Not even close to what P2W is.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

BlueRaven wrote: »

I think it is.

If I start a new character for PvP and I don’t pay to have all the skyshards unlocked. I will be at a disadvantage compared to someone who had done it.

And btw, at least on one of my characters, I have every skyshard unlocked. Every skyshard.

Do you have the gold to buy the Skyshards?

If not then I guess you're up the crik w/out a paddle.

AlnilamE

Other.

Hey, if it stops the "skyshards should be account wide" thread, let them do it. If people want to pay not to play the game, it's their money.

Rikumaru wrote: »

It's kinda absurd this isn't a base game feature but rather is being made into a paid feature.

Someone else suggested that you should be able to buy them with gold, which I'm fine with. Right now, you can easily buy them with time, though, so they are a base game feature already.

Alaztor91

No it's not P2W.

How is this more P2W than a race change? There is nothing hard about collecting skyshards unless they are in Cyrodiil/Imperial City(ZOS probably isn't going to sell ''packs'' for those zones), if you dedicate enough time to it you will get them all eventually.

While this is more controversial than a XP boost scroll, it's not really different from mount lessons.

Mintaka5

No it's not P2W.

Nah. I welcome more of this type of stuff. As a player who cannot spend a lot of time in the game, if I can pay to make up for downtime, to gain the same advantages as those who play all day, everyday, then it's not really p2w it's balance.

haelene

No it's not P2W.

For the love of all things good in this world, please stop using this term to mean "things are buyable with real money".

P2W = buying things with real money that aren't available otherwise.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Alaztor91 wrote: »

How is this more P2W than a race change? There is nothing hard about collecting skyshards unless they are in Cyrodiil/Imperial City(ZOS probably isn't going to sell ''packs'' for those zones), if you dedicate enough time to it you will get them all eventually.

While this is more controversial than a XP boost scroll, it's not really different from mount lessons.

Frankly, even the ones in Cyrodil and the IC aren't that big a deal... if you're careful...

It's a time-suck, but, it's not really that big a deal.

Androconium

Yes it's P2W.

Its ***.

They'll balance this by making other things more time consuming to get. You people still don't get this company's business model and drivers.

Be lazy and pay for low level chars to be comparatively overskilled then, if you must.

You lazy and incompetent players, you.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

haelene wrote: »

For the love of all things good in this world, please stop using this term to mean "things are buyable with real money".

P2W = buying things with real money that aren't available otherwise.

You mean Crowns aren't real money?

My CC Statement says otherwise!

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

grannas211 wrote: »

No its pay for Convenience

That's a poor excuse. If "convenience" isn't p2w, then I want a chest full of equipment(including monster helmets) at the very beginning of the dungeon. I am going to clear it anyways, why even bother?

Tandor

No it's not P2W.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Hey, if it stops the "skyshards should be account wide" thread, let them do it. If people want to pay not to play the game, it's their money.

It might stop those threads, but what it will undoubtedly do is lead the posters of such threads to move on to the next thing they want to be able to advance instantly through the Crown Store rather than by playing the game - completing the Psijic Order skill line is perhaps one such thing, pushing harder on mount training is another.

code65536

Yes it's P2W.

It's something that we've all clamoured for. And it's a good feature to have. But it should not be a crown store exclusive.

If there's an option to pay gold to some Mages Guild NPC to do it, that'll be fine.

Starlock

Yes it's P2W.

Androconium wrote: »

Its ***.

They'll balance this by making other things more time consuming to get. You people still don't get this company's business model and drivers.

Oh gods. Now you've gotten me worried. If this is the direction the game is going to go, it may be time for me to say farewell.

Tyrobag

Other.

This option should be free, but I guarantee that it will cost 10000 crowns instead.. -_-

It feels icky that they're making this something you have to buy in the crown store. If its not pay to win, it fees very close. The "I've already unlocked it on another character" excuse works for adding this as a free option, but when you have to pay for it it becomes a VERY slippery slope.

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

Tyrobag wrote: »

This option should be free, but I guarantee that it will cost 10000 crowns instead.. -_-

It feels icky that they're making this something you have to buy in the crown store. If its not pay to win, it fees very close. The "I've already unlocked it on another character" excuse works for adding this as a free option, but when you have to pay for it it becomes a VERY slippery slope.

It's another band-aid which should be just patched in but instead we have to buy it. I think this change will mark the decline of this title.

Ertosi

Yes it's P2W.

Turelus wrote: »

XP scrolls.

A lot of people have used XP scrolls as a justification for why buying Skyshard Skill Points is ok.

It should be noted there is a subtle but massive difference between an XP scroll which allows you to gain XP faster and being able to outright buy Skill Points instantly. The only way to truly say the two were comparable would be if XP Scrolls instantly gave you a huge chunk of experience without that character actually having to go through gameplay to earn it on.

heaven13

I'm sorry y'all but I called this ages ago, that if skyshards ever became less of a grind it would be a pay for convenience thing like mount training. I'm really not surprised at all.

Tandor

No it's not P2W.

code65536 wrote: »

It's something that we've all clamoured for. And it's a good feature to have. But it should not be a crown store exclusive.

If there's an option to pay gold to some Mages Guild NPC to do it, that'll be fine.

False premise - it is not something "we've all clamoured for" - not by a long way.

ezio45

Other.

Its not pay to win, but it is shady asf.

@ZOS_RichLambert

I have no issue with this itself. My issue is that this is way to incentivized on console. Skyshards and lorebooks on console are a pita. We dont have addons for this and you havent given us that tool. If we need to hunt lore books or skyshards it requires going away from game on a second device. To look up and mark locations of skyshards one at a time. Either going through achievements to see what ones would have already got marking them off or going through every single shard in zone.

Now your telling us we can have them unlocked for all our characters after we have already gone thru that pita but ONLY IF WE PAY YOU.

Despite the fact console has been asking for this QoL change for years.

Rich, ik this is some bs *** from upper management being like how do we monetize this more. You know though man this isnt how a games company should treat the player base. If your gunna add this to the shop you have to at least give console the map markers for this. Otherwise its just a massive slap in the face to us.

SeaGtGruff

Other.

I voted for (3) "other" because I think it's possibly-- possibly-- a little tiny bit of (1), but it's a lot of (2), except I don't want to vote for (2) because I think that would imply that I endorse the idea whereas I don't especially like it.

I'm relatively new to MMOs-- ESO is my only MMO, and I've been playing for about 2 years now-- so maybe I don't understand what P2W means. But to me P2W means you can't win unless you pay, and I don't think that this is that.

At best, it's just a convenient shortcut for players who've already earned the achievement on one character and don't want to have to earn it all over again on another character.

Furthermore, it seems like overkill in most cases, because it really isn't all that difficult or time-consuming to travel to a zone and run around absorbing skyshards whose locations are already known. The hardest part about earning the achievement in the first place is having to explore a zone when you haven't discovered all of its wayshrines yet and must therefore take the long way-- especially if that involves completing some battle so a particular gateway fort or whatnot is freed from an enemy alliance. The second-hardest part is figuring out where the dang things are.

The one case where I can see this being truly useful is for Cyrodiil, because collecting all of the skyshards in rodiil is a genuine pain due to the possibility of being attacked by other players even if you aren't actively participating in a campaign at the time-- and even then it's largely an unnecessary convenience, since you can safely navigate most of Cyrodiil without too much fear of being attacked as long as you're sneaking. The important exception is for the skyshards which are locked behind the gates, since the only way you can collect those is if your character's alliance has managed to open the gates.

Aside from Cyrodiil, this just strikes me as another way for ZOS to let hardcore veteran players accelerate the process of raising a new character to its maximum possible development. And in a way it's less of a "cheat" than buying riding lessons and crafting research and the like, because buying the skyshards thing would still require having to earn the achievement on at least one character. For comparison, it's like saying "you can buy riding lessons but you can't use them unless you've already maxed out the riding lessons on at least one of your characters," or "you can buy crafting research but you can't use it unless you've already researched all of the traits on all of the items in all of the crafting skill lines on at least one of your characters."

Now, I'm not saying that scrolls for riding lessons and crafting research are actually a cheat, which is why I said "cheat" in quotes-- in other words, I'm saying that some people might think of them as cheating, but I don't. What I do think is that they are a lazy player's crutch, or something along those lines-- not that, exactly, but sort of like that, perhaps akin to reading a summary of a novel for class instead of reading the actual novel. I have all sorts of scrolls for riding lessons and crafting research and experience boosts that I've acquired as level-up rewards or daily rewards or from CS bundles (upgrade packs and CEs of DLC)-- and I haven't used a single one, because I preferred to take the long road of actually playing the game.

For me, the whole point of playing ESO and the other TES games is the playing of the game as opposed to "beating" the game-- that is, enjoying the journey in itself as opposed to standing on top of the mountain and saying "I made it to the top of the mountain!" Yeah, you did-- but did you get there by climbing, driving, taking a helicopter, or transporter beam?

To me, buying and using a scroll like this wouldn't be paying to win, nor would it be cheating against other players-- but it would be cheating myself out of "fun." And yes, I said that in quotes, because I realize that some people might not think of having to earn an achievement all over again on a new character as fun.

KingofAnnwn

No it's not P2W.

It's not P2W. It's a convenience. Most ALTs won't need more skyshards than for the skills and passives they need for a build.

Ertosi

Yes it's P2W.

haelene wrote: »

For the love of all things good in this world, please stop using this term to mean "things are buyable with real money".

P2W = buying things with real money that aren't available otherwise.

Correction:

P2W = buying things with real money that give you an advantage.


Similar, many justify such things by focusing on "Win", and while things like outright buying Skill Points doesn't let you outright win, it most certainly gives you an advantage over those who aren't spending the cash.

NyassaV

Other.

I still want global achivements