Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

Turelus

No it's not P2W.

Aznarb wrote: »

Look more like a cash grab than p2w.
Skyshard are easy to get, boring, but easy.
And you've to unlock on a char bfore be able to pay for an other one.
Also it's only by region, gonna be hella expensive for all.
So, not P2W, just cash grab for lazy.

Rob did mention they might do packs to buy them all together (maybe with discount?) but those were the details they hadn't figured out yet.

Leeched

Knowing ZO$ the price for this will be exorbitant high so no one will buy it anyways

DarcyMardin

No it's not P2W.

I like the idea and don’t think it’s pay to win. It sounds particularly good to me this week, since I’ve been running around Tamriel seeking skyshards on my 19th and 20th characters, and I’m pretty sick of it.

It would only be p2w if you could buy all the skyshards/skillpoints on your first character, without having ground them all out once.

Besides, take it from a very non-elite player — just because I can slot the skill with a skillpoint doesn’t mean I can use it effectively

lillybit

No it's not P2W.

It's really just an extension of CP being across characters. You have to put in the work but once you do it helps all your other characters too.

I just wonder if it carries on, so you'll unlock future skyshards after purchase, or will have to buy again and again to unclock more

KappaKid83

No it's not P2W.

No, if you have to have it unlocked on your main but pay to have it transferred over to an ALT to save time I would group it as a shortcut like lowering craft research time and riding skills.

eklhaftb16_ESO

Other.

As my grandma used to say: "Two things I'd like to have: your worries and Rotschild's money."

Couldn't care less, really. Gathering skyshards isn't a competitive thing, it's a leisure activity to provide a little diversion from doing quests. Whether you get your skyshards faster than me or slower than me, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Sure, it may look like P2W at first, but when you think about it, you'll realize it's actually P2AP - Pay to Avoid Playing. If one has enough money to burn and is willing to pay to skip the game, it's 1) their problem, 2) no concern of mine, 3) more money for ZOS.

ghastley

Other.

Not quite, but getting very close.

I don't like it, because a new character needs the skill build-up to use them, and the skyshard hunt is an appropriate way to do so. There has to be a better way to avoid the "repeat grind" aspect that still provides the practice on the new set of skills. And there always will be a new set of skills, or you wouldn't need a new character, you'd just re-spec.

FilteredRiddle

Yes it's P2W.

Absolutely.

You are paying real-life money, for combat power/effectiveness in ESO. That is by definition, P2W.

Things like mount speed/capacity/stamina are a convenience item. Things like research scrolls are a convenience item. Things like XP scrolls are a convenience item. None of those things directly relate to your in-game power, and capabilities in combat. Being able to create a new toon and pay to unlock ~400 skill points absolutely relates to and effects your in-game power.

I have always said this - the ability to apply skyshard/mage's guild/psijic line to other characters - should be an option when you've unlocked the highest tier achievement. However, it should be something you simply unlock when you reach that goal. Allowing people with fiscal freedom to instantly access all skill points, while people without that same financial security will be unable to do so, is pretty crap in my opinion.

WeerW3ir

Yes it's P2W.

IT IS P2W. why you guys even considering it?

Goren

Yes it's P2W.

It comes down to your definition of "Pay 2 Win". For me it means you can buy yourself an advantage that isn't available for someone who doesn't pay. Of course you can collect all those skyshards on your own, but this advantage is about getting them all at once. This way you can roll a Necromancer, level him up, buy some skill points and be the first one in any Necromancer related leaderboards you'd like while others still need to farm skill points.

I personally don't care if it's pay 2 win, this is a good feature. It would be great though if you could craft all the Mages Guild Books, put them in your house and level your Mages Guild skill line just by reading them.

Turelus

No it's not P2W.

Goren wrote: »

It comes down to your definition of "Pay 2 Win". For me it means you can buy yourself an advantage that isn't available for someone who doesn't pay. Of course you can collect all those skyshards on your own, but this advantage is about getting them all at once. This way you can roll a Necromancer, level him up, buy some skill points and be the first one in any Necromancer related leaderboards you'd like while others still need to farm skill points.

I personally don't care if it's pay 2 win, this is a good feature. It would be great though if you could craft all the Mages Guild Books, put them in your house and level your Mages Guild skill line just by reading them.

Being first at something doesn't mean winning over other players though unless it's a race to be first at everything. In which case... XP scrolls.

Goren

Yes it's P2W.

Turelus wrote: »

Being first at something doesn't mean winning over other players though unless it's a race to be first at everything. In which case... XP scrolls.

Well then what is your definition of P2W?

Narvuntien

No it's not P2W.

I don't think it is pay to win because I am not sure how exactly it is winning to have the skyshards, it's not making your character stronger than non-paying customers.

It is a HUGE convenience though hours of mostly pointless gameplay skipped whenever you make a new character.

The only win thing is you can quickly level a new class when nerfs/buffs make something else the BIS

Zaketh

Goren wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Being first at something doesn't mean winning over other players though unless it's a race to be first at everything. In which case... XP scrolls.

Well then what is your definition of P2W?

For me, it is a cash exclusive purchase: Somethin you can not get in game by playing, but ONLY with irl money

WhyMustItBe

Other.

It may not be pay to win, but the fact it is Crown only with no gold option to unlock IS totally lame.

Rikumaru

Yes it's P2W.

It's kinda absurd this isn't a base game feature but rather is being made into a paid feature.

Miswar

Other.

If these are obtainable only via real money and crownstore than it is bs.

That is just pure greed by ZoS but if these are obtainable via ingame functions than good.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Of course it's really not any more P2W than buying scrolls...

Turelus

No it's not P2W.

Goren wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Being first at something doesn't mean winning over other players though unless it's a race to be first at everything. In which case... XP scrolls.

Well then what is your definition of P2W?

Being able to purchase an advantage no one else can obtain via in game means which can be used in competitive play, or "gold ammo".

So gear, consumables, abilities etc. which are exclusive to cash shops. There is an argument that if the in game version is kept frustratingly hard to achieve then it's P2W but I don't think this SP is.

You need 12 for bar skills, 50ish for passives and you're set for a basic build, most of those will come from levelling.

Browiseth

No it's not P2W.

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

You are paying real-life money, for combat power/effectiveness in ESO. That is by definition, P2W.

it really is true that if you repeat something enough times it becomes fact, huh

Casul

No it's not P2W.

I will be utilizing this, I wasnt going to make a nerco because cyrodiil shards are cancer. But this opened an option for me. Well done ZOS

FabresFour

No it's not P2W.

P2F, not P2W

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

Browiseth wrote: »

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

You are paying real-life money, for combat power/effectiveness in ESO. That is by definition, P2W.

it really is true that if you repeat something enough times it becomes fact, huh

I DO believe in Fairies! I DO believe in Fairies!

Elsonso

Other.

A lot of people have been asking for leveling acceleration and account-wide-ness stuff here in the forum.

I am not exactly pleased with this, and have not decided exactly what to think. However, I can say that it is definitely a slippery slope situation.

Rake

Yes it's P2W.

Yes. So many players had to spend time getting these, alliance war locked ones too.

TequilaFire

Other.

I will still collect shards the normal way because when I create a new character I need to unlock those zones collect lore books and materials anyway.
You level your character by doing so in the process.

Danikat

Other.

IMO it's the same sort of thing as buying a race change token instead of deleting and remaking your character or buying a crown store mount before getting to level 10. It's paying for convenience - to be able to do something more quickly, but it doesn't allow you to do anything which other players can't do or even something which is a serious advantage.

I think the difference between that and pay to win is a grey area rather than a clear line - it would be impossible to divide all the kinds of things games sell into two clear and distinct sets of 'pay to win' and 'not pay to win', rather it's a spectrum. Some games have some very clear pay to win options, even ones where technically you can get the same things for free. For example my dad plays some RTS on his tablet where you either pay to unlock new units, buildings, upgrades etc. or earn them in game, but it takes so long to earn them that you could never keep up with someone who buys them and if you play against them you wouldn't stand a chance. That to me is definitely pay to win.

This is not an entirely different system - someone who collects sky shards on one character then power levels all their alts (probably using crown store XP scrolls) and buys sky shard packs for them (and probably buys bag slots, horse training, vampire/werewolf and whatever else as well) will be able to have a full selection of end-game ready characters more quickly and easily than someone who doesn't buy sky shard packs, or any of that other stuff.

But then we're into the perennial question of what you win by doing that. The person above who paid to rush through creating a stable of alts might well have a bunch of level 50/CP characters with lots of skill points, but they'd still need gear for them all and most importantly they'd need to know how to play them. Yes they can copy a build from a website and watch a video explaining how it works, but that's not the same as actually knowing how to play it.

So basically I think this provides a useful convenience for some people (for people like me who create alts mainly for overland questing it's fairly useless, I don't need those skill points to start what I want to do and I'll get them on all my characters anyway) but it's not enough on it's own, or even combined with other convenience items in the crown store to constitute pay to win. If this trend kept going it could, eventually, become part of a pay to win system but we're 5 years into ESO already and this is as far as we've got, unless we get a sudden change in direction it will be a long time before that happens.

Turelus

No it's not P2W.

lordrichter wrote: »

A lot of people have been asking for leveling acceleration and account-wide-ness stuff here in the forum.

I am not exactly pleased with this, and have not decided exactly what to think. However, I can say that it is definitely a slippery slope situation.

They stated this was a tester for future ideas as well, so expect the guild lines and potentially alliance war lines to be the future purchases.

Slack

According to forums, even DLC achievements, that don't even reward a title, are pay to win, so...

Sylvermynx

No it's not P2W.

I don't really care whether it is or isn't p2w. I won't buy them anyway, as I really enjoy wandering the world on all my 24 toons picking them up etc.