source: linkAccount Wide Things
Starting in Elsweyr you’ll be able to buy Skyshard SP unlocks for Crowns if you’ve previously completed the achievement on another character. There might be bundles (zones, alliances etc), however much of this was in development at the time and nothing was nailed down.
Caligamy_ESO wrote: »This game has been sliding into p2w gradually for a long time now.
You cannot compete with someone on a single target fight with a new monster set such as Zaan in terms of DPS, you can get close but we all know this is the best single target dps monster set. You can't cast a (free) stronger heal and purge in Cyrodil while on a DPS character without an Earthgore set. Just as you can't really do the insane 'power creep' dps that everyone is flinging about these days without new trial gear (relequen, siroria, etc.) All of these are locked behind paywalls. You can try to put whatever pretty little mental bow on it you want to justify it in your own head but it is still locked behind a purchase.
Skyshards however.. pale in comparison in my eyes, its not REALLY p2w but now it gives access to whales to just crank out an alt anytime they feel like it and not have to invest the time into it that everyone else will and dive right into the end game or pvp content with it. So here we are.. I already know what will happen, there will be CP810 maxed out Necromancers on Day 1 who only need to obtain Lorebooks, Fighters guild, and Psijic skills. With the profits on skyshards Zo$ will probably do Lorebooks next.
disintegr8 wrote: »It's only pay to win if you are competitive.I'm not competitive, so it does not affect me if someone else pays to get an advantage on their second, third, fourth character.
Oliviander wrote: »The only real PTW aspect in ESO are the motifs in crown store.
1. You get achievementpoint for it
2. you get an significant financial benefit ingame for getting more master writs.
3. I think it's nearly impossible to get all motifs for 15 toons without buying some or even the majority of them.
So you don't just save time like buying some Skyshards.
You get an ongoing gold benefit for the investment.
You can get to a point which is nearly impossible to achieve without paying (at least for 15 toons)
I would call that PTW
But you also get achievement points for the skyhards so if you are
hard on the issue you may call it PTW. But as it is not really difficult to collect the needed skyshard´s
I for myself wouldn't call it PTW
DCUO did this with Skill Points. It then led to them selling artifact xp which is directly tied to power.
disintegr8 wrote: »It's only pay to win if you are competitive.I'm not competitive, so it does not affect me if someone else pays to get an advantage on their second, third, fourth character.
Then BDO isn't p2w either
DCUO did this with Skill Points. It then led to them selling artifact xp which is directly tied to power.
Interesting fact.
I won't be surprised if ESO will go full F2P in the next 3 months to 1 year.
F2P games model involves many micro transactions which are P2W or borderline P2W, so it makes sense ZOS is preparing the game to this transition.
DCUO did this with Skill Points. It then led to them selling artifact xp which is directly tied to power.
Interesting fact.
I won't be surprised if ESO will go full F2P in the next 3 months to 1 year.
F2P games model involves many micro transactions which are P2W or borderline P2W, so it makes sense ZOS is preparing the game to this transition.
disintegr8 wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »It's only pay to win if you are competitive.I'm not competitive, so it does not affect me if someone else pays to get an advantage on their second, third, fourth character.
Then BDO isn't p2w either
What is BDO?
Never heard of it.disintegr8 wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »It's only pay to win if you are competitive.I'm not competitive, so it does not affect me if someone else pays to get an advantage on their second, third, fourth character.
Then BDO isn't p2w either
What is BDO?
@disintegr8 Black Desert Online
DCUO did this with Skill Points. It then led to them selling artifact xp which is directly tied to power.
Interesting fact.
I won't be surprised if ESO will go full F2P in the next 3 months to 1 year.
F2P games model involves many micro transactions which are P2W or borderline P2W, so it makes sense ZOS is preparing the game to this transition.
I don't see how they could ever go full FTP. With the infinite crafting bag and DLC content all tied to a sub. How could they end that. What would happen to all the people who sub for that reason. What would happen to the 1000s of crafting components they have.
DCUO did this with Skill Points. It then led to them selling artifact xp which is directly tied to power.
Interesting fact.
I won't be surprised if ESO will go full F2P in the next 3 months to 1 year.
F2P games model involves many micro transactions which are P2W or borderline P2W, so it makes sense ZOS is preparing the game to this transition.
I don't see how they could ever go full FTP. With the infinite crafting bag and DLC content all tied to a sub. How could they end that. What would happen to all the people who sub for that reason. What would happen to the 1000s of crafting components they have.
ZOS can figure something out.
For example, the crafting bag can be changed to monthly crown store crafting bag tokens to keep the access to the crafting bag.
Same for double bank/furnishings.
There are many bad options which can replace the current model ESO has.
DCUO did this with Skill Points. It then led to them selling artifact xp which is directly tied to power.
Interesting fact.
I won't be surprised if ESO will go full F2P in the next 3 months to 1 year.
F2P games model involves many micro transactions which are P2W or borderline P2W, so it makes sense ZOS is preparing the game to this transition.
I don't see how they could ever go full FTP. With the infinite crafting bag and DLC content all tied to a sub. How could they end that. What would happen to all the people who sub for that reason. What would happen to the 1000s of crafting components they have.
ZOS can figure something out.
For example, the crafting bag can be changed to monthly crown store crafting bag tokens to keep the access to the crafting bag.
Same for double bank/furnishings.
There are many bad options which can replace the current model ESO has.
Monthly crown store. That is a sub just by a different name
Facefister wrote: »They've just confirmed that they'll also add Skilllines like Mages Guild and Psijics on the store.
Facefister wrote: »That's the entire point of it. Putting monetized band aids on the broken systems like in this case, leveling an alt. Why patch it when you can sell the patch. Just like the Welkynar motifs. Make the grind so long and boring so people can just buy it for 6k crowns.It’s not sharing achievements, it’s buying power with cash. The people who will use it don’t care about characters, they just want their power with as little time spent as possible.
I will use this if I feel it's priced fairly. And I will do so because I want to play the character I care about in content I care about, not run around mindlessly across overland zones and running passed 1-shot mobs of no difficulty or intrigue in delves to collect all the glowy things. And no, I won't slow down and "acquire Skyshards naturally instead of grinding them", as many opponents of account-wide Skyshards tend to suggest, because I have content I'd like to play and it is not the overland content I've already taken my time to enjoy at least once.
I'm the kind of person that does things once. Books? Read it once. Games? Play it to completion once. Movies? Watch it once. Shows? Watch it once. I don't enjoy doing the same exact activity more than once. So while I enjoyed and was engrossed in overland content the first time I roleplayed through it and will enjoy future overland content as it gets released, I will almost never enjoy going through any of it again.
It's not that I "don't care about characters". On the contrary, I love coming up with backstories and deciding on their personalities and how they'll solve problems differently than my other characters. But in the interest of not boring myself to tears by doing content I've already done, and for players like me, gameplay concessions must be made. I will buy the skyshards for my alts, and I will then go on to immediately enjoy the characters I've created by joining them in activities I enjoy.
I absolutely wish it weren't (or won't be) a cash shop feature - it should be a basic game feature - but I will take advantage of it to increase my enjoyment of the game in any form I find at least reasonable.
I think the term pay to win is too black and white. I think a better question to ask is if buying skyshards is paying for power? And my answer is yes. If it were up to me I wouldn't add the ability to buy skyshards, if I had to compromise then I would make it a one time purchase per account where all the characters share the skyshards.
Caligamy_ESO wrote: »This game has been sliding into p2w gradually for a long time now.
You cannot compete with someone on a single target fight with a new monster set such as Zaan in terms of DPS, you can get close but we all know this is the best single target dps monster set. You can't cast a (free) stronger heal and purge in Cyrodil while on a DPS character without an Earthgore set. Just as you can't really do the insane 'power creep' dps that everyone is flinging about these days without new trial gear (relequen, siroria, etc.) All of these are locked behind paywalls. You can try to put whatever pretty little mental bow on it you want to justify it in your own head but it is still locked behind a purchase.
Are those other MMOs that have levels, content, and power locked behind expansions also P2W? Because your logic dictates that they are, as ESO is doing the same thing, just more often and without level cap increases.
Elara_Northwind wrote: »I doubt anybody is against alts getting the skyshard achievements, I think everybody is on board with that [...]
I'm against it, so kindly don't speak for all of us. I saw a few others post saying the same.
Pay-to-Skip cash-shop options are still a "softer" form of Pay-to-Win as they allow players to bypass content and thus save time; time is an advantage. To me, it doesn't matter if the content has already been cleared by one of a Player's characters; that doesn't mean they deserve the option to buy it for their other characters that haven't earned it.
I think another problem here is that most folks eager to see such a thing have grave misconceptions about how it's going to be implemented. Let's see what little we know about it so far:source: linkAccount Wide Things
Starting in Elsweyr you’ll be able to buy Skyshard SP unlocks for Crowns if you’ve previously completed the achievement on another character. There might be bundles (zones, alliances etc), however much of this was in development at the time and nothing was nailed down.
Add that to today's stream where ZOS said purchases are going to be on a per-character basis, not per-account and it starts to get real nasty. And yes, yes, yes, I know this is all conjecture at this point, but it's still a good place to look because it seems like it puts us in the ballpark for what to expect.
Anybody remember how additional Outfit Slots work? At 1500 crowns a slot, it's been calculated that unlocking every slot for all of their characters will cost a player about $1200 before tax. And remember, there are just 9 additional Outfit Slots to unlock for each character.
If unlocking a Skyshard Bundle is comparable in price to an Outfit Slot (and that's being nice, given Skyshards give you skill points so they'll probably be even more expensive because they give real utility) it's going to cost players even more. You've got your base alliance zones + Coldharbour + Cyrodiil + IC + Orsinium + Hew's Bane + Gold Coast + Morrowind + Clockwork City + Summerset + Mirkmire + Elsweyr + each future chapter and DLC. That's already 3 times the slots needed to buy per character!With three times the slots to buy over Outfit Slots, if they're the same price that would be about $3600 to unlock them all for all of your characters. And that's still assuming they won't be MORE expensive per slot because they actually add character power.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***