Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Ertosi wrote: »

This thread isn't dying down, is it? *grabs a stick*

I hope it is because it's pretty clear to everyone but a few paranoid people that this isn't really p2w. You won't "win" even if you have all skyshards at once, not necessarily. It only makes you strong quickly, but not strongER.

Call it pay to catch up, if you want. Skyshards for people in a hurry, like the book from Neal Degrasse Tyson.

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

ZonasArch wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

This thread isn't dying down, is it? *grabs a stick*

I hope it is because it's pretty clear to everyone but a few paranoid people that this isn't really p2w. You won't "win" even if you have all skyshards at once, not necessarily. It only makes you strong quickly, but not strongER.

Call it pay to catch up, if you want. Skyshards for people in a hurry, like the book from Neal Degrasse Tyson.

Which is such an amazing change! But not for real money, per character! It was just pointed out to me in a way probably much better that I can explain it, that we are all directing our anger at this cash grabbing scheme at ZOS, when it really isn't them who is to blame, they create a game that we all love, and we all obviously love it very much or we wouldn't all be on the forums debating this! Those who work on the business side of things, Zenimax Media, they are the ones who are making these gross decisions, to charge us for absolutely everything.

As a housing enthusiast I am shocked on a regular basis at the prices charged at times for things in this game. over £100 for a house! In a game! These crown prices for homes (among other things) is something that I have personally complained about since the release of housing, but not enough people did complain, people went out and bought several of these homes despite their unreasonable price, and now they are becoming more expensive than ever! As a community, if we don't stand up for our beliefs on these issues, they will never change, and will keep getting worse, which is fine for those who don't mind throwing their hard earned cash at the greedy fat cats sat in their offices at Zenimax Media, trying to mastermind their next scheme to fleece us fans of the game, but I doubt most people have the money to throw away, or wish to do so, even if they do have the money.

If they are going to start allowing us to unlock achievements account wide, which is great and something that I, personally, am completely on board with, then they should not be charging us real money for it, and certainly not per character! The idea is a great one, but it's implementation is just so disgusting, and like I have said before in a previous post, sets a horrible standard for any future 'convenience' items that might appear in the crown store in the future.

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

This thread isn't dying down, is it? *grabs a stick*

I hope it is because it's pretty clear to everyone but a few paranoid people that this isn't really p2w. You won't "win" even if you have all skyshards at once, not necessarily. It only makes you strong quickly, but not strongER.

Call it pay to catch up, if you want. Skyshards for people in a hurry, like the book from Neal Degrasse Tyson.

Which is such an amazing change! But not for real money, per character! It was just pointed out to me in a way probably much better that I can explain it, that we are all directing our anger at this cash grabbing scheme at ZOS, when it really isn't them who is to blame, they create a game that we all love, and we all obviously love it very much or we wouldn't all be on the forums debating this! Those who work on the business side of things, Zenimax Media, they are the ones who are making these gross decisions, to charge us for absolutely everything.

As a housing enthusiast I am shocked on a regular basis at the prices charged at times for things in this game. over £100 for a house! In a game! These crown prices for homes (among other things) is something that I have personally complained about since the release of housing, but not enough people did complain, people went out and bought several of these homes despite their unreasonable price, and now they are becoming more expensive than ever! As a community, if we don't stand up for our beliefs on these issues, they will never change, and will keep getting worse, which is fine for those who don't mind throwing their hard earned cash at the greedy fat cats sat in their offices at Zenimax Media, trying to mastermind their next scheme to fleece us fans of the game, but I doubt most people have the money to throw away, or wish to do so, even if they do have the money.

If they are going to start allowing us to unlock achievements account wide, which is great and something that I, personally, am completely on board with, then they should not be charging us real money for it, and certainly not per character! The idea is a great one, but it's implementation is just so disgusting, and like I have said before in a previous post, sets a horrible standard for any future 'convenience' items that might appear in the crown store in the future.

Interestingly enough, you could see the same price hike in GTA online... Old stuff, just as good as new stuff, would be priced so much higher. Happened there with cars, happened here with mounts and houses and the like. They stop pushing when they reach the ceiling. Happens that the ceiling for ESO players is stupid high...

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

ZonasArch wrote: »

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

This thread isn't dying down, is it? *grabs a stick*

I hope it is because it's pretty clear to everyone but a few paranoid people that this isn't really p2w. You won't "win" even if you have all skyshards at once, not necessarily. It only makes you strong quickly, but not strongER.

Call it pay to catch up, if you want. Skyshards for people in a hurry, like the book from Neal Degrasse Tyson.

Which is such an amazing change! But not for real money, per character! It was just pointed out to me in a way probably much better that I can explain it, that we are all directing our anger at this cash grabbing scheme at ZOS, when it really isn't them who is to blame, they create a game that we all love, and we all obviously love it very much or we wouldn't all be on the forums debating this! Those who work on the business side of things, Zenimax Media, they are the ones who are making these gross decisions, to charge us for absolutely everything.

As a housing enthusiast I am shocked on a regular basis at the prices charged at times for things in this game. over £100 for a house! In a game! These crown prices for homes (among other things) is something that I have personally complained about since the release of housing, but not enough people did complain, people went out and bought several of these homes despite their unreasonable price, and now they are becoming more expensive than ever! As a community, if we don't stand up for our beliefs on these issues, they will never change, and will keep getting worse, which is fine for those who don't mind throwing their hard earned cash at the greedy fat cats sat in their offices at Zenimax Media, trying to mastermind their next scheme to fleece us fans of the game, but I doubt most people have the money to throw away, or wish to do so, even if they do have the money.

If they are going to start allowing us to unlock achievements account wide, which is great and something that I, personally, am completely on board with, then they should not be charging us real money for it, and certainly not per character! The idea is a great one, but it's implementation is just so disgusting, and like I have said before in a previous post, sets a horrible standard for any future 'convenience' items that might appear in the crown store in the future.

Interestingly enough, you could see the same price hike in GTA online... Old stuff, just as good as new stuff, would be priced so much higher. Happened there with cars, happened here with mounts and houses and the like. They stop pushing when they reach the ceiling. Happens that the ceiling for ESO players is stupid high...

That is sadly very true

DaveMoeDee

No it's not P2W.

ErMurazor wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

Whats so hard to understand?!? P2W = With real money buy things you cant get in game.

Thus skyshards, xp scrolls, horsetraining and so on are just timesavers NOT P2W

I don't think you understand your own definition of P2W. Can you get instant 60 horsetraining for 0 gold in game? Can you get 5 skill points instantly in game?

Thanks for making my point clearer. Its all about convienience and time saved. And its great for someone with a full time job and family like me. I can get my new chars ready faster.

We should be precise here. This is not just convenience. It is impossible for a level 5 character to collect all skyshards in the game without paying. Why is it impossible? Because the act of collecting the skyshards would level you way beyond level 5.

While I am fine with selling skyshards for alts, the reality is that it could lead to power levels previously not possible in below 50 PvP if only people who buy skyshards can unlock all their combat related passives.

So this legitimately could be considered P2W, but only for under 50 PvP. This would be the first thing ZOS sold that allowed power levels not obtainable without spending crowns, even if those benefits dissipate as the character levels.

ArenGesus

No it's not P2W.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

Whats so hard to understand?!? P2W = With real money buy things you cant get in game.

Thus skyshards, xp scrolls, horsetraining and so on are just timesavers NOT P2W

I don't think you understand your own definition of P2W. Can you get instant 60 horsetraining for 0 gold in game? Can you get 5 skill points instantly in game?

Thanks for making my point clearer. Its all about convienience and time saved. And its great for someone with a full time job and family like me. I can get my new chars ready faster.

We should be precise here. This is not just convenience. It is impossible for a level 5 character to collect all skyshards in the game without paying. Why is it impossible? Because the act of collecting the skyshards would level you way beyond level 5.

While I am fine with selling skyshards for alts, the reality is that it could lead to power levels previously not possible in below 50 PvP if only people who buy skyshards can unlock all their combat related passives.

So this legitimately could be considered P2W, but only for under 50 PvP. This would be the first thing ZOS sold that allowed power levels not obtainable without spending crowns, even if those benefits dissipate as the character levels.

You don't unlock the passives by buying the points, you merely have them available to you to spend once you have leveled your skills/passives. Whoever buys this will still spend the same amount of time grinding those skills up, they just have a choice in how they go about the grind.

JinMori

Yes it's P2W.

It;s borderline p2w, but what i wonder is, this should get a backlash, people asked this for a long time, and what you give us is a crown store thing, considering the mess this game is in, bugs everywhere, problems of all kind, this pisses me off greatly.

emily3989

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Can you achieve it in game? Yes so it's not a p2w.

PTW is not exclusive to only out of game items. Being able to buy trials drops or VMA weapons in crown store would be PTW imo

dcam86b14_ESO

No it's not P2W.

I love this idea. It even says you can't get the SP unless you've unlocked the achievement on another character, so you have to level a toon before you can get them on your alts. I fully support it.

ManwithBeard9

Yes it's P2W.

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

I love this idea. It even says you can't get the SP unless you've unlocked the achievement on another character, so you have to level a toon before you can get them on your alts. I fully support it.

You dont have to level a toon, you have to collect skyshards, so a level 26 could have all the skyshard achievements and then buy your skill points for future characters.

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

I love this idea. It even says you can't get the SP unless you've unlocked the achievement on another character, so you have to level a toon before you can get them on your alts. I fully support it.

You dont have to level a toon, you have to collect skyshards, so a level 26 could have all the skyshard achievements and then buy your skill points for future characters.

So? That's what I do today and I kick butts like crazy on BGs and sometimes in cyro. Having the option to buy it won't make you better or worse at the game.

belial5221_ESO

No it's not P2W.

P2W actually means ... buying an item not availiable to be attained ingame, that gives players a clear advantage over other players which cannot afford to spend real money on ingame items. Paying for anything you can get ingame, through actually playing, is just there for people who think they have to be first/best/coolest at everything,and not P2W,maybe P2BABR(pay to boast about being rich) lol.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

P2W actually means ... buying an item not availiable to be attained ingame, that gives players a clear advantage over other players which cannot afford to spend real money on ingame items. Paying for anything you can get ingame, through actually playing, is just there for people who think they have to be first/best/coolest at everything,and not P2W,maybe P2BABR(pay to boast about being rich) lol.

If paying money means you get to circumvent gameplay requirements, that’s P2W

By your definition putting vMA weapons in the store wouldn’t be P2W

max_only

Other.

Elder Scrolls Blades is the literal definition of pay to win, this game is a charity by comparison

max_only

Other.

Diundriel wrote: »

i just hope you can buy it with Gold aswell

They said in the stream it cannot be gifted. It will be crowns only. Only crowns, per character, per skyshards zone achievement.

The only zone this is worth it for is Cyrodiil. Suffer Horse Riding Sim once, just once, pay for the other characters.

DenMoria

Yes it's P2W.

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

P2W actually means ... buying an item not availiable to be attained ingame, that gives players a clear advantage over other players which cannot afford to spend real money on ingame items. Paying for anything you can get ingame, through actually playing, is just there for people who think they have to be first/best/coolest at everything,and not P2W,maybe P2BABR(pay to boast about being rich) lol.

On the other hand, that is also penalizing people that CAN afford to pay for the convenience.

wishlist14

Other.

I chose other because as someone else pointed out here, the question does not really apply to eso .
Pay to win means you need to pay $$$ in order to advance in-game and actually "win" something be it a reward of some kind unattainable by other means. In eso . getting all skyshards on all your characters or on any given character does not reward you with anything that is not doable without paying $$, In simple terms, you can go out and get all skyshards yourself manually without spending anything.

Now, I cannot say it is not 'not pay to win' either because I feel that if I voted that way then I'm saying it's ok for zos to make skyshards purchasable via store with crowns. There are too many things I would rather spend my crowns on and buying skyshards is not on my agenda. Sure, it's a grind to get all skyshards on all my 10 characters but they get xp doing it so I just have to look at it as a part of the levelling experience.

I still have to go out and do world dungeons and kill delve bosses etc so I need to go into those areas to get those delve achievements so why not just grab my skyshard while im doing that rather than pay crowns and forget about delve achieves?
If you pay for skyshards via crowns but you have not first unlocked skyshard achievements on at least one character then all of us that had to do all our pvp skyshards, public dungeons and delves etc ….all our work seems kinda meaningless. I'm proud that I unlocked my skyshards achievement by getting all skyshards in Tamriel.i got a sense of accomplishment from doing that. I have the skyshards in my home to prove it. Isn't this what drives us to want to achieve things in this gam.? if you can buy everything eventually without having to at least go out and achieve on one character first it cheapens the experience. I hope eso have thought of this.

I pay for costumes, pets, houses, motifs, house items, other character cosmetic items (some day hair dyes :P)....These things are my priorities to spend my crowns on which btw cost real money. I ususally buy my crowns in crown sales or ask for family to gift me crowns for birthdays etc so to me my crowns are valuable. I don't make insane amounts of gold in-game to be able to buy my crowns from crown sellers so it always comes out of my rl money. I tend to use my in-game gold to buy attunable crafting stations which I enjoy collecting.

I was going to leave recently cause I was so frustrated and yes I'm human.....not a robot <sarcasm>.I stopped playing eso for a few days and searched for other games but ended up re-playing TES lol (I'm the kid that runs away from home and hides in the shed ) I decided to stay for a while cause at the end of the day I love this game. And when I go out there nothing compares to Eso ...not by a long shot in my eyes. This is a quality game . I apologise if I get emotional ..but i'll never ever apologise for being honest and being me and voicing my views because they never come from a malicious place. So it's not about not wanting to invest money into eso but it's about wanting to preserve the integrity of eso. But it's just my own personal views still someone out there may feel the same way. Thank you for reading

Tsar_Gekkou

No it's not P2W.

max_only wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

i just hope you can buy it with Gold aswell

They said in the stream it cannot be gifted. It will be crowns only. Only crowns, per character, per skyshards zone achievement.

The only zone this is worth it for is Cyrodiil. Suffer Horse Riding Sim once, just once, pay for the other characters.

Can't be gifted? This is actual garbage.They're fine with people farming gold and using it to buy crown store pets and stuff from other people, but not for things that people can actually use?

Dartricz

No it's not P2W.

I do not like it but It's no way near p2w. If you think you are at a disadvantage because someone has all the skyshards and you don't you are an idiot. I have never went into PvP or pve without enough skill points so I can have every skill and passive I need.

DaveMoeDee

No it's not P2W.

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

P2W actually means ... buying an item not availiable to be attained ingame, that gives players a clear advantage over other players which cannot afford to spend real money on ingame items. Paying for anything you can get ingame, through actually playing, is just there for people who think they have to be first/best/coolest at everything,and not P2W,maybe P2BABR(pay to boast about being rich) lol.

It doesn't just mean buying items. That is just one example. Do not confuse examples with the full definition.

As I and others have pointed out a few times, this gives an advantage in under-50 PvP because I don't think it is possible to get enough skill points for all passives that impact combat and PvP through gameplay at low levels. You level too fast. This means that people who don't spend will end up in sub-50 PvP with points missing from some passives that increase their power level.

I have no idea how much power those passives add, but they do add to your power level. This means that skyshard buying IS p2w for under-50 PvP.

On the other hand, it is not p2w for endgame. It is just a convenience to speed things up and reduce another needless grind.

Dartricz wrote: »

I do not like it but It's no way near p2w. If you think you are at a disadvantage because someone has all the skyshards and you don't you are an idiot. I have never went into PvP or pve without enough skill points so I can have every skill and passive I need.

Then you didn't do sub-50 PvP, because people have to skip skill passives there. I suppose being all one armor type and having the same weapon on both bars could help. Or only using a single class skill line. But I don't know how many top builds can get away with that.

Blaqk_EyeD

No it's not P2W.

You already did the work. Just a way to alleviate the grind for people with multiple characters. Would like to see the mount speed across whole account but that is an easy cash grab for Zeni when it comes to impatient players.

Drelkag

No it's not P2W.

If you didn't have to lock them on one character already I would say it's P2W.

This is pay for convenience, which is what a cash shop should offer and nothing more.

Rygonix

Yes it's P2W.

I originally thought it was P2W then I realized we already had similar P2C items available for a long time like the mount training books.

O_LYKOS

No it's not P2W.

If i pay for skyshards i'm just paying for convenience. Skyshards are obtainable in game. So me and someone earning them both have the same advantage. I'm just taking the lazy option. So no. it's not pay to win

ThePlayer

Other.

I personally will never spend a penny to buy skyshard, if they want to improve this useless search for skyshards they have to do it for free on account.
It is not pay to win, it is just a way to speed everything up for a player who has already done his good research in Tamriel.
If they want money for something that should be free i will continue my search for skyshard as i have done so far and i will no longer be ESO +

OrdoHermetica

No it's not P2W.

Honestly, I don't see it being much different from buying mount training, except it's less P2W than that since you have to get the shards on a different character in the first place, while a brand new character on a brand new account can get to a fully trained mount instantly if they throw enough money at it. That makes a huge difference in, say, PvP, and while Skyshards can give you skill points, you still need to level those skills up to make use of them.

So, basically, it's really pay for convenience. And as others have noted, ZOS is a company that somehow thinks charging $15 for a single outfit slot on a single character is reasonable pricing, so I have no doubt that it'll be so comically expensive that very few people will ever actually buy them.

mairwen85

Other.

The thread that refuses to die...

reg369

Yes it's P2W.

I don't like it and I still hope they wont include it. Skyshards are a cool collectible and if you think about it, they are the only real reason why the open world is important for charecter building. All the leveling can just be done by playing rdm dungeons. I think it just goes against the spirit of the game to have these and I don't know why people are happy about it. I always saw skyshards as a cool reward that I find in the open world.

reg369

Yes it's P2W.

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

It's disappointing, but at least those players who had been requesting things like this have an option now, and they still have to earn them in some way.

But why should they have the options? Skyshards are a massive part of the game and a smart and cool way to reward exploring. To world in ESO matters.

reg369

Yes it's P2W.

Ertosi wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

XP scrolls.

A lot of people have used XP scrolls as a justification for why buying Skyshard Skill Points is ok.

It should be noted there is a subtle but massive difference between an XP scroll which allows you to gain XP faster and being able to outright buy Skill Points instantly. The only way to truly say the two were comparable would be if XP Scrolls instantly gave you a huge chunk of experience without that character actually having to go through gameplay to earn it on.

You also get Scrolls as daily reward and in events, so there is no need to buy them.