Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

Canned_Apples

No it's not P2W.

It sounds like it's going to be a per-character purchase........................................................................................

linoge63

No it's not P2W.

Its pay to maintain sanity

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

[img][/img]Head in Hands

mairwen85

Other.

@Elara_Northwind I'm not disrespecting your opinion. I agree it is a d!ck move. I've put in this thread my opinion several times, and I do believe that it sets the door ajar for more crown offers that walk a tighter line. However, I disagree that the many things that are already (ergo unnecessary for crown) account wide will follow.

I switched to pc from console 28 days ago. I'm cp 300 already with no overland questing; on my original xbox account it took me 4 years to hit cp 810. The catch up mechanic is in such force that my 4 year effort is undone in essence. The game has evolved to cater for the disparity of leveling vs cp... And skyshards, originally intended to reward exploration of zones, that intent obsolete by one tamriel, are the next mechanic addressed. If crown only, disgusted, if crown or gold, I can get behind the change...

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

Numerikuu wrote: »

Unlocking the achievement should allow you to purchase the points with gold as well.

Regardless, this is the beginning of more *** to come. Seen it time and time again with MMOs, this is just Zenimax testing the waters. Expect worse things from the CS in the future.

Mages Guild/Fighter's Guild/Undaunted will be next.

Elara_Northwind

Yes it's P2W.

mairwen85 wrote: »

@Elara_Northwind I'm not disrespecting your opinion. I agree it is a d!ck move. I've put in this thread my opinion several times, and I do believe that it sets the door ajar for more crown offers that walk a tighter line. However, I disagree that the many things that are already (ergo unnecessary for crown) account wide will follow.

I switched to pc from console 28 days ago. I'm cp 300 already with no overland questing; on my original xbox account it took me 4 years to hit cp 810. The catch up mechanic is in such force that my 4 year effort is undone in essence. The game has evolved to cater for the disparity of leveling vs cp... And skyshards, originally intended to reward exploration of zones, that intent obsolete by one tamriel, are the next mechanic addressed. If crown only, disgusted, if crown or gold, I can get behind the change...

They already said on the stream today, it is going to be a crown store purchase. I have played since beta, and every year more and more questionable content is added to the crown store. It's sad. I love this game and it's turning into something ugly.

Holly_Matchet

No it's not P2W.

Not P2W since it is something you have already done once. This was said to be a QOL improvement and should should be available for every account. This should not be a crown store only purchase.

mairwen85

Other.

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

@Elara_Northwind I'm not disrespecting your opinion. I agree it is a d!ck move. I've put in this thread my opinion several times, and I do believe that it sets the door ajar for more crown offers that walk a tighter line. However, I disagree that the many things that are already (ergo unnecessary for crown) account wide will follow.

I switched to pc from console 28 days ago. I'm cp 300 already with no overland questing; on my original xbox account it took me 4 years to hit cp 810. The catch up mechanic is in such force that my 4 year effort is undone in essence. The game has evolved to cater for the disparity of leveling vs cp... And skyshards, originally intended to reward exploration of zones, that intent obsolete by one tamriel, are the next mechanic addressed. If crown only, disgusted, if crown or gold, I can get behind the change...

They already said on the stream today, it is going to be a crown store purchase. I have played since beta, and every year more and more questionable content is added to the crown store. It's sad. I love this game and it's turning into something ugly.

Then the question is not whether p2w or not - - but rather is this acceptable practice?

Let's separate knee jerk hysteria from clear interpretation of intent. Monetization of player demand vs requirement to play effectively. Which carries the greater weight, and which is achievable only via real world currency.

Knowledge

No it's not P2W.

I don't believe it's P2W personally. It's not much different than buying a level boost in WoW or other games to me.

If they were selling gear I would say that would be P2W.

max_only

Other.

Canned_Apples wrote: »

It sounds like it's going to be a per-character purchase........................................................................................

It will be yes. That’s what I gleaned from the stream.

If you pay for it every time, can you really look in the mirror and call yourself a winner lol?

miteba

No it's not P2W.

Pay2Win it is a fairly easy concept! It's when you buy something that will give you an ingame advantage, when that "something" isn´t avaiable in any other way. Or when you buy "something" that will give you more ingame power/stats than the ones that are avaiable through the game.

- Does buying SkyShards in Crown Store add exclusive SkyShards that werent already avaiable ingame, and that werent already found in the account?
- No?
- Then it is not Pay2Win. Thank You! Next!

SathuDuwa

Almost everything that requires lots of time investment and waiting (with cooldown) is now at the crown store with no cooldowns
- mount training (with no cooldown)
- research time (with no cooldown)
- storage chests (why PVP or grind daily writs for master writs)
- skill points (coming soon)

More things that may be monetized (as they only require time):
- Mages Guild levelling
- Fighter's Guild levelling
- Class Skill / Weapon Skill Levelling
- Craft Skill levelling
- New character instant level to Level 50
- Instant Max CP

So I've just come to accept it.

Archemer

Other.

It's not... But we're starting to dip our toes in the Black Desert Online brand of pay to convenience. Which hurts to say because i genuinely love this game. However, it's way too aggressive and monetizes things we should not be paying for.

Collecting skill points once should be an account option like collecting heirlooms/mounts/transmog in wow, or just not be a thing you can skip at all. Squeezing the playerbase with direct build influencing mechanics like this is...

Well it's getting there. After a certain point there's a critical mass of sorts where players will just decide collectively that there's too much pay to convenience, or that there's enough collectively to classify the game as pay to win.

The sky isn't falling, but I'm no longer going to participate in reigning in that thought process in other players.

thedude33

No it's not P2W.

Lindsey

No it's not P2W.

I have collected every skyshard in the game on my main character. It took a lot of time and a lot of patience. I am glad that I have the option to not have to do it again another 12 times. It is definitely NOT pay to win!

Monsieur

Yes it's P2W.

The biggest problem with this thread is that pay to win has different meanings to different players and the majority of the thread is spent arguing with each other over who’s definition is right.

We should be more focused on whether we feel like this is a dirty underhanded tactic from ZOS or whether this is acceptable.

Archemer

Other.

Monsieur wrote: »

The biggest problem with this thread is that pay to win has different meanings to different players and the majority of the thread is spent arguing with each other over who’s definition is right.

We should be more focused on whether we feel like this is a dirty underhanded tactic from ZOS or whether this is acceptable.

Agreed 100%. This is part of why i voted "Other". It's undeniably a cheap cash grab tactic. The weight of it and if or not it's pay to win is more ambiguous.

It's definitely pay to convenience at least.

Shadow-Fighter

Yes it's P2W.

Lindsey wrote: »

I have collected every skyshard in the game on my main character. It took a lot of time and a lot of patience. I am glad that I have the option to not have to do it again another 12 times. It is definitely NOT pay to win!

Next time you will "Pay" to get advantage of it!

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Monsieur wrote: »

The biggest problem with this thread is that pay to win has different meanings to different players and the majority of the thread is spent arguing with each other over who’s definition is right.

We should be more focused on whether we feel like this is a dirty underhanded tactic from ZOS or whether this is acceptable.

It is perfectly acceptable. To get this you'll need to have the achievement first, meaning you played through it at least once. Giving this to lazy butt players is a bit of a cash grab but that's about it. Besides... How many of your builds actually require more than, say, 100SP? If level to 50, and you do *only* public dungeon group bosses, plus that lonely shard inside each one, you'll get another 29 and 1/3. That gets you to 93SP and 1Shard. Go in, kill boss, get shard, get out. This is so so fast to do... There's no reason to even consider buying SP an issue. It's that simple... And if you run group dungeons to level up, you'll also get SP from those quests.

Notice how easy is to get enough?

That's why I think it's 100% ok and acceptable and couldn't be more detached from p2w.

Wanna see p2w? Go play BDO. Come here after, let us know what you think.

Gythral

it is
Pay to not play (and line a suits pocket)


Why pay to not play a game you enjoy???

Archemer

Other.

ZonasArch wrote: »

Wanna see p2w? Go play BDO. Come here after, let us know what you think.

BDO started with convenience items. They didn't end up pay to win over night.
This is a game with:
Paid mounts and pets
Paid convenience items (Bites, repairs, food, gems, ect)
A subscription most communities view as necessity
Gambling crates
Paid expansions
Paid dlc
Paid cosmetics

And now more convenience in the form of paid account skill point sharing.

ZoS needed to chill at paid dlc, expansions, and a subscription with a cash shop. That was absolutely plenty. The constant influx of convenience purchases and gambling crate content doesn't need defending. It makes us (the players who love ESO) and this game look very trashy.

labambao

No it's not P2W.

I think it should be free. I mean accountwide. Because those of us, who have 8-15 chars are really bored to getting skyshards, books etc. But paying for that? Sure, if all skyshards that i have on my main would cost for the char only 1k crown. But not 1k crowns for every location. Also i want all skillpoints from quests added to the crown store. And that psijic skill line. 80% of players do not want to do same boring actions and quests again and again. I hope they will be smart and dont add this all with high prices.

Lord_Eomer

Yes it's P2W.

Monsieur wrote: »

The biggest problem with this thread is that pay to win has different meanings to different players and the majority of the thread is spent arguing with each other over who’s definition is right.

We should be more focused on whether we feel like this is a dirty underhanded tactic from ZOS or whether this is acceptable.

This ^

BoraxFlux

No it's not P2W.

It is definitely not pay ro win,
Players that don´t buy it can still get them in game.
Players that do not want to do the same grind have an opt-out with this purchase, they might enjoy the game better.
The pre-requisite is a very wise move, imho players still have to do full Tamriel map the first time, which -can be- an incentive to do quests and encounter other players in area's they wouldn't normally travel.
I'm all for improving the brew.

JediCody

No it's not P2W.

driosketch wrote: »

I honestly don't care with regards to skyshards. If someone wants to buy skyshard completions per character, which is in my view is one of the easiest collects on an alt, let them get fleeced. I hope they are 5000 per zone.

That's about how I feel after thinking it over, though I do acknowledge that this is a slippery slope.

Ultimately, in this case, I'm glad ZOS will have more revenue.

DLM

No it's not P2W.

It's Pay to Sanity. If I want to play a new character it is to have fun and explore a new playstyle, not to go on a hunt once again.

Thrawniel

No it's not P2W.

It's not p2w at all. Those shards are available to everyone, and with addons/online maps for consoles there's zero challenge aside time investment.

I will gladly pay to unlock Cyro ones on alt, as I cba to pvp on them aside from doing the tutorial(and no, even those are not a challenge either. Just wait for the zerg and follow it. If you are careful, you can even follow enemy zerg. Like how I got EP skyshards by tailing blue zerg on AD main). I'd rather spend all this time doing something fun.

I already got all the skyshards on main. I do not want to waste time on them on alts. It's not like I'm buying those without having unlocked them first.

If you think this is p2w, then count xp scrolls, research reducers and extra character slots as p2w. Because you are clearly confusing convenience with 'win'.

You do not need it to run trials or ranked pvp. By the time you get there, you collect more than enough skillpoints from other activities, so it will be irrelevant (my main is sitting on 30+ of extra skill points atm). What it goods for is lowbie alts that can invest into hirelings etc without sacrificing their combat skills.

P.S. SWTOR has been having similar system with datacrons for a while now, and it works fine.

Jamdarius

Other.

A few months ago ZOS was claiming that there is 2 much gold in players pockets, so why not make it also an option purchasable by gold to remove excessive gold (only if your main obtained it once)?

I know it is to make some new cash for the ESO however I believe we should have very expensive gold purchase option for each zone, like 1m + gold or something per zone or 100-200k per skyshard.

nickl413

No it's not P2W.

Its not pay to win. It isnt giving you access to anything no one else has access to. It's not like gathering skyshards takes any kind of skill. It takes away from the experience of the game but it isnt pay to win.

Numerikuu

Yes it's P2W.

Monsieur wrote: »

The biggest problem with this thread is that pay to win has different meanings to different players and the majority of the thread is spent arguing with each other over who’s definition is right.

We should be more focused on whether we feel like this is a dirty underhanded tactic from ZOS or whether this is acceptable.

Amen.