Are you happy with the racial changes that most likely will go live?

MLGProPlayer

Not really...

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Basically, what I got from this "racial rebalancing" is that all DC races are now god-tier.

Everyone else? Pure, useless trash.

My 4 Bretons are now buffed beyond OP in magic, my 2 Redguards aren't incredibly better, but still in a decent place.

On the other hand, my 5 Bosmer and 4 Altmer characters have been gutted in the most lore-shattering way possible with Hawk's Eye and Spell Recharge. It's disgusting.

Enjoy that "diversity" they kept promoting this change would bring.

I've never seen this company fail so hard at meeting their original stated objective.

Your choice of words says that you don't understand how close all this is... No race is God tier, none is trash. Sustain races are able to use blue food and increase their damage, while damage races can use regen food and increase their sustain. At the moment, the second option is slightly better (because regen food is overloaded), but it doesnt have to stay that way.

As a mostly PvE player, what do I get from Hawk's Eye? From Spell Recharge?

Oh, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Just 3 skillpoints that got freed up to be used elsewhere.

Even a health bonus or any other sort of utility I could say would be useful in PvE, but these two? No way in hell.

Don't worry about it. He's just a Class rep and not a race rep so he's got no idea what he's on about. If its balanced in DPS at top level then he's quite happy to tell you "you don't understand how close all this is". No other roles and play styles exist nor matter. Thats why ZOS said they will balance around all roles and didn't. So he's here defending them because he would lose the "class rep" status otherwise. Just like other companies which said "don't like it, don't play it" they are copying the same attitude. It's a win-win.

PTS only exists to test the crown store. Does it work? Great, job done.

Some of the class reps have actually criticized the changes. There is no official policy stating they need to shill for ZOS.

Left4Daud

Yes, there is a whole world of significance to racial identity OUTSIDE of the viability of wailing on a fricken target dummy. Gutting the flavor of races that have years and years of established lore and passionate players enjoying that identity is fundamentally wrong. None of that flavor needed to be removed to get your stupid PVE dps equality which is all you seem to care about.

The fact that you can’t see this, or if you can, but still don’t care, is alarming to say the least.

[edited to remove bashing]

sirpz

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

orcs, redguards, khajiits, and dunmer (+ arguable bosmer, theyre decent) are all viable stam dps

imperials, nords, argonians are all viable tanks

altmer, dunmer, khajiit, and breton are all viable mag dps

argonians, breton, and altmer are all viable healers

and bosmer, orc, khajiit and altmer are all just really good for pvp

seems to me all the races are all very viable and overall balanced, with some having a slight edge on others

no clue how its possible to say only 3 or 4 races are viable

sirpz

cheifsoap wrote: »

Honestly, I'm a little annoyed that I'm going to have to race change to a nord in order to be a competitive tank in PVE. For PVP, I'll just delete my argonian and reroll the meta for PVP caster

argonians are still solid tanks tho... I dont think a single group would turn you away for not being a nord tank.

colossalvoids

Most of them look good!

This changes gave me faith in overhauled combat team and class rep program, we weren't even close ever to such a changes.
With as much options to go who can possibly be really pissed? Right, forums qq brigade as always. Why hop pts and test, better just go create another useless post with "X is useless (as i heard), zos killing the game" as this options gives some promotion withing qq community. Most people even endgame are clueless (not saying i have a clue to everything, lol) and that shows that we in a dare need of new voices like it was Gilliam before for lots of people. People need clear and competent explanation and probably math for some to be seen and not just 1-2 posts explaining from random players that wanted to help out the rest. But well, thats another topic.

90% here didn't wanted the game to be balanced at all (or only at one specific aspect), only their main should be buffed and thats it, changes are done boys and girls we're good to go.
We've got 6 perfectly viable stamina dps races instead of 1 and 4 for magicka side instead of 2. Differences on 26+ mil parses are in 100-200DPS at max and that was never achieved before. Argonians are not the only go to tank race and still sky is falling i guess. Yes, there are some rp stuff like thieving and everything but on live you can be unseen under the very nose of a guard if you want to build that way and thats what players want? Maybe TMG(TGM?) or testinghall should be added into passives too? Especially when it was stated that stealth will be brought up in other skill tree in a future. Always thought it should be player skill based, not gear/passive's choise but what i know about modern gaming, silver plates and stuff.

Is it flawless overall? No (just like my english). Is it in much better state with most changes? 100% yes. Ofc some fixing will be done in live notes and after it will go live when it will be playtested in different environments. I only hope that this changes will bring other issues like classes & skill lines lacking, cp's, snared to death pvp, some food's and other pain points to name a few.

Kadoin

Eh, I will make the most of them without race changing. I have 3 Altmer, 3 Dunmer, 2 Redguard, 1 Bosmer.

It's honestly not the first time I've gotten the short end of things, but every time I adapted and came back with builds that were better. These "nerfs" aren't even too terrible, and I can see use in every class passive.

I am only disappointed I don't have a Khajit to show ZOS exactly why that 10% crit healing bonus is a bad idea. But that's what I'll do when it goes live and I get new char slot, they said they weren't changing anything right?

We'll see about that...Can't wait!

MLGProPlayer

Not really...

Masel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Basically, what I got from this "racial rebalancing" is that all DC races are now god-tier.

Everyone else? Pure, useless trash.

My 4 Bretons are now buffed beyond OP in magic, my 2 Redguards aren't incredibly better, but still in a decent place.

On the other hand, my 5 Bosmer and 4 Altmer characters have been gutted in the most lore-shattering way possible with Hawk's Eye and Spell Recharge. It's disgusting.

Enjoy that "diversity" they kept promoting this change would bring.

I've never seen this company fail so hard at meeting their original stated objective.

Your choice of words says that you don't understand how close all this is... No race is God tier, none is trash. Sustain races are able to use blue food and increase their damage, while damage races can use regen food and increase their sustain. At the moment, the second option is slightly better (because regen food is overloaded), but it doesnt have to stay that way.

I don't know where to start breaking down this statement....

So now you have Altmer barely hanging on to viability thanks to food while Orc and Dunmer are overperforming because of it.

Is food not a part of the same *** game? Racial passives should be balanced around all available variables. You don't balance around the possibility of future nerfs to food, which in itself will cause a world of problems for balance (nerfing food drops Altmer completely out of endgame viability).

Alt_Might

No, I hate them!

I kind of wanted to get into this game. Atm the game feels super pve. Bgs are meh, and I haven't tried the pvp zone. Other than that it feels pointless. I don't want to plug any mmos, but many new mmos are a bit more promising. And Racials seem stream lined and less important. Eh whatever I guess.

TheBonesXXX

cheifsoap wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

Every single race is viable for any kind of content. There is no discussion on that. Some of them might be more competitive than others but this is the whole point of competitive. Things can only be equally good if they are exactly the same.

They could have easily adjusted values to bring all of the races closer together. All it would have taken is minor tweaks.

If we're still going to have clear-cut meta races, what was the point of this patch?

I think no matter what, there will always be a clear cut meta though.

This is what people who are new to MMORPG's don't seem to understand. There will always be meta, there will always be a want or a need to min/max. It's not as bad with this game but the philosophy of min/max is still strong

A meta is fine for most games, not for anything with "Elder Scrolls" on it.

Silver_Strider

No, I hate them!

sirpz wrote: »

cheifsoap wrote: »

Honestly, I'm a little annoyed that I'm going to have to race change to a nord in order to be a competitive tank in PVE. For PVP, I'll just delete my argonian and reroll the meta for PVP caster

argonians are still solid tanks tho... I dont think a single group would turn you away for not being a nord tank.

The reason for this has more to due with the sheer lack of Tanks and that currently on Live, there really isn't any fundamental differences between races that make them "better" tanks than one another. Argonian was easy mode Tanking because it had so much built in self sustain vs other races that anyone could pick it up and didn't require any thought to pop a potion at low resources, so you only ever had to worry if $#!% hit the fan. Now, however, some races actually offer a substantial edge over others in terms of Tanking, with Nords and Imperials offer more frequent Warhorns than all other races, making them better suited for competitive groups, Nord more so since their passive has more potential uptime than Imperial's cost reduction. Competitive being the keyword here as these are the groups that are purely toxic and demand 100% BiS everything in order to stay in top form, be it a 1% difference or a 0.1% difference. So, ORc Stamina DPS, either Altmer or Breton Magic DPS, Breton Healers and Nord Tanks only for them.

This normally wouldn't be an issue but ESO has a hive minded mentality to it, in which the word of Streamers is gospel and everyone needs to be X race to be even remotely good as all other races are bad by default. It bleeds into people's minds and over time just leads to ignorance, much like how so many people kick low CP players from even basic vet dungeons, like Wayrest or Fungal Grotto, even to this day. At the end of the day, as far as the meta is concerned, there is only 3-4 viable races next patch; Nord Tanks, Breton Healers/Magic DPS (Maybe Altmer Magic DPS), and Orc Stamina DPS. All other races are irrelevant.

Masel

Yes, absolutely!

I never said I like the roll dodge passive. I dont. But people lose their minds on a small utility passive while they got buffed on another.

Us class reps have been reading the feedback for the pastt weeks in our free time and you know what? I told them that many people dont like the roll dodge thing. I told them that many also dont like the stamina return on altmer. I told them that many players think orc is overtuned and that I can get where they are coming from. I have criticized these passives too.

But I also know the other end. Players complained about the stealth passive for examples all the way when it was there. Ofc some people liked it, but also many many people didn't. So what they did is buff the universal part in form of stamina and recovery. I have no clue why this roll dodge passive is there, and I'm not the biggest fan of it. But in total, I can see these passives to be a big improvement to before. Same with altmer. People focus on that one passive they dont like but ignore the ones that improved significantly.


I just can't understand how many people here can rage that hard when they just got a buff to their race compared to live. People are insulting me now because I voiced an opinion that didnt match theirs, which is why I'll stop posting for now.

max_only

Not really...

@masel I’m sorry if I insulted you. With this last response you still have not addressed the issue. It is not the roll dodge. It is not the stealth passive’s bonus damage. It is the radius reduction. You don’t mention it because you haven’t understood it. Thus It is not representative of concerns.

You say: people didn’t like the stealth passive
We say: it’s fine to remove the 10% extra damage, but why remove the 3m radius for one race?
You say: I don’t even like the roll dodge
We say: we aren’t talking about the roll dodge, we are talking about something we used being replaced with something we don’t use.

Its not my intention to insult you. And you have the power to remove yourself from the conversation so cheers to that. Not communicating is also another form of communication, it tells people that one doesn’t care to understand.

Them:“I gave you gummy bears why are you complaining?”
Us: “Because you chopped off my leg, these things aren’t related.”
Them: “who even uses legs anyway, you’ll be bench curling out there with the best of them!”
Us: “again, you are missing the topic”
And so on.

Masel wrote: »

I never said I like the roll dodge passive. I dont. But people lose their minds on a small utility passive while they got buffed on another.

Us class reps have been reading the feedback for the pastt weeks in our free time and you know what? I told them that many people dont like the roll dodge thing. I told them that many also dont like the stamina return on altmer. I told them that many players think orc is overtuned and that I can get where they are coming from. I have criticized these passives too.

But I also know the other end. Players complained about the stealth passive for examples all the way when it was there. Ofc some people liked it, but also many many people didn't. So what they did is buff the universal part in form of stamina and recovery. I have no clue why this roll dodge passive is there, and I'm not the biggest fan of it. But in total, I can see these passives to be a big improvement to before. Same with altmer. People focus on that one passive they dont like but ignore the ones that improved significantly.


I just can't understand how many people here can rage that hard when they just got a buff to their race compared to live. People are insulting me now because I voiced an opinion that didnt match theirs, which is why I'll stop posting for now.

Tommy_The_Gun

Not really...

Masel wrote: »

All parses and math I have seen show that these races are all within a margin that can be put down to human error and chance at this point, and it baffles me how big of a deal these tiny differences are to many people. This is the first time I understand that you simply can't do it right. People will complain whatever change is coming, and it is quite difficult to filter out unbiased reasonable feedback.

The share fact that you only care about dps parses, and when those parses are more or less in margin of an arbitrary "human error" pretty much shows that you ignored 66% of the rest of players.
DPS is not the only role out there. We have tanks & healers too. The whole point of this racial rebalance was to make each race more or less vailable for all roles in all type of content. Meanwhile what will happen is out of 10 races we have only 3 or 4 that will be used to do content. It is the total opposite of the original racial rebalance goals.
And btw. It would be fine if this was said by a random person on forums, but peaple look at your avatar and they see "Class Representative". [edited to remove bashing]

Cundu_Ertur

No, I hate them!

Masel wrote: »

I never said I like the roll dodge passive. I dont. But people lose their minds on a small utility passive while they got buffed on another.

You are still missing the point. We lost stealth to get a counter-stealth detection thing. It is a complete inversion of how the race was played in the 3 most recent single player games. It is a complete inversion of what is in the lore. I've never complained about the roll-dodge movement thing, though I have laughed at the pointlessness of the somewhat later penetration bonus. I knew from the start that the 20% bonus wasn't going to make it through PTS, but I didn't have a huge problem with it. I've never complained much about losing the bonus damage out of stealth. The problem has always been that the Bosmer have ALWAYS had a bonus to stealth and never, ever, EVER any kind of counter stealth, ever.

Alcast

I personally prefered the week 1 race changes over the ones now. However, if ZOS thinks those changes right now are better, then so be it. Not saying that I agreed with everything in week 1 but I definitely found it better then it is currently.

Orillion

Some are nice, others are not.

Overall they're not too bad imho.
On a purely personal level i would have liked the Dunmer to keep their Flame damage bonus since it's a pretty unique trait, and the Altmer to get their magicka return thingy (instead of stamina). The Bosmer stealth change seems useless to me but in the end i don't think it's much of a game changer.
Certainly nothing to ragequit about, that's for sure.

OtarTheMad

Some of the racials need to be adjusted a bit, for me the jury is still out but I also think we are being a little harsh on ZOS and the reps. The community asked for racial changes and they are trying, I give them all the credit in the world for that.

To me, and maybe I am seeing/remembering this incorrectly, but this reminds me of when Wardens came out and a lot of people were against them completely, some even quit the game over them. They said they are OP and blah blah and then they hit live and players got to use them in all different situations and then reality hit... they were actually bottom of the barrel.

I am probably crazy, shocker, but I believe that since the DPS numbers are so close together that in any given situation/dungeon run/trial run whatever any race could be top because no one DPS' like a robot each time (perfectly). Sometimes abilities didn't fire, or your rotation got messed up or the boss charged you cause the tank died or WHATEVER. I am just saying that the numbers between the races are close, maybe closer than they ever were and it's okay. Sorry that DPS is the top conversation for races and not much about healing and tanking but hard to produce test results like DPS and not many posted results from any sort of dungeon runs and how the healing and tanking was.

The class reps are doing the best that they can with the info given. I bet some of us couldn't even imagine the amount of info they are fed every day and probably from 80 different directions. That can't be easy and on ZOS for trying to rebalance racials that some in the community pushed for while trying to make as many people happy as they could and keep a vision. The class rep program is working, I don't think many games do this... maybe they do idk. Thanks to them for dealing with a gaming community which is NEVER easy.

Lastly, the Bosmer change was odd but still kind of lines up with them being bow users. They might not have had stealth detection bonuses in other games but were there any bonuses like that in the games anyway?

Masel

Yes, absolutely!

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

All parses and math I have seen show that these races are all within a margin that can be put down to human error and chance at this point, and it baffles me how big of a deal these tiny differences are to many people. This is the first time I understand that you simply can't do it right. People will complain whatever change is coming, and it is quite difficult to filter out unbiased reasonable feedback.

The share fact that you only care about dps parses, and when those parses are more or less in margin of an arbitrary "human error" pretty much shows that you ignored 66% of the rest of players.
DPS is not the only role out there. We have tanks & healers too. The whole point of this racial rebalance was to make each race more or less vailable for all roles in all type of content. Meanwhile what will happen is out of 10 races we have only 3 or 4 that will be used to do content. It is the total opposite of the original racial rebalance goals.
And btw. It would be fine if this was said by a random person on forums, but peaple look at your avatar and they see "Class Representative". Like holy s***. If class reps says things like this, it convincess me more & more that class rep program was a terrible idea...

I never said that parses are the only thing I care about. I tank, I heal, I play cyrodiil, I play bgs. Nowhere did I say these passives are 100% perfect. But they achieve a much better balance than the ones we have on live and THAT was the goal.

For every role and playstyle you have various options to execute it.

Only 3 or 4 will be used to do content? I highly doubt that. For instance, I will make my stamblade a bosmer now because the 258 recovery synergises perfectly with the 15% recovery bonus they have and I dont have a bosmer yet.

Stop the hysteria already.

actosh

Some are nice, others are not.

Will keep as well my Imperial for Tank/dps/PvP roles. Just like him and the passives are more than okay.
Not the strongest in anything but well rounded. Maybe i dont have a prob with that cause in earlier mmo´s u sometimes had to make sacrifices to get something else.

dave_harter_ESO

Some are nice, others are not.

Many of the changes are okay. The Bosmer loosing stealth is still very irritating as well as my Altmer healer loosing regen.

Elwendryll

Yes, absolutely!

Khajiit stamsorc.

On live.
DW/Bow. without relequen. 32-33k dps self buffed.

On pts.
2H/bow. without relequen. 33-35k dps self buffed.

Regarding pvp, I only play in no-cp. So no bonus crit damage, no bonus crit resistance. I really think that will favor the new khajiit passive.

From my observations, we're not forced to stack crit. On the contrary, we should let go on some crit and invest more into raw damage.

I truly think all the changes are for the better and are healthy for the game. I'm satisfied, and excited about dropping DW (In my case). I fully understand why a lot of people are concerned or disappointed, but I'm not one of them.

John_Falstaff

No, I hate them!

@Elwendryll , without high crit, you're simply not using your racial passive, that's all. And since you're sitting at very low damage (and 35k is very low when talk's about limits of different races), you just don't know the difference. It's not a position from which one can judge the racial changes.

cyberjanet

Not really...

My problem is that races and classes are still shoehorned into boxes. No Redguard magicka users, for example. You have a redguard, you have to play stamina. Tough.

Seraphayel

Most of them look good!

Razorback174 wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Basically, what I got from this "racial rebalancing" is that all DC races are now god-tier.

Everyone else? Pure, useless trash.

My 4 Bretons are now buffed beyond OP in magic, my 2 Redguards aren't incredibly better, but still in a decent place.

On the other hand, my 5 Bosmer and 4 Altmer characters have been gutted in the most lore-shattering way possible with Hawk's Eye and Spell Recharge. It's disgusting.

Enjoy that "diversity" they kept promoting this change would bring.

I've never seen this company fail so hard at meeting their original stated objective.

Your choice of words says that you don't understand how close all this is... No race is God tier, none is trash. Sustain races are able to use blue food and increase their damage, while damage races can use regen food and increase their sustain. At the moment, the second option is slightly better (because regen food is overloaded), but it doesnt have to stay that way.

As a mostly PvE player, what do I get from Hawk's Eye? From Spell Recharge?

Oh, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Just 3 skillpoints that got freed up to be used elsewhere.

Even a health bonus or any other sort of utility I could say would be useful in PvE, but these two? No way in hell.

This is outright false for Spell Recharge. It's undeniably useful in PvE, too.

max_only

Not really...

Masel wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

All parses and math I have seen show that these races are all within a margin that can be put down to human error and chance at this point, and it baffles me how big of a deal these tiny differences are to many people. This is the first time I understand that you simply can't do it right. People will complain whatever change is coming, and it is quite difficult to filter out unbiased reasonable feedback.

The share fact that you only care about dps parses, and when those parses are more or less in margin of an arbitrary "human error" pretty much shows that you ignored 66% of the rest of players.
DPS is not the only role out there. We have tanks & healers too. The whole point of this racial rebalance was to make each race more or less vailable for all roles in all type of content. Meanwhile what will happen is out of 10 races we have only 3 or 4 that will be used to do content. It is the total opposite of the original racial rebalance goals.
And btw. It would be fine if this was said by a random person on forums, but peaple look at your avatar and they see "Class Representative". Like holy s***. If class reps says things like this, it convincess me more & more that class rep program was a terrible idea...

I never said that parses are the only thing I care about. I tank, I heal, I play cyrodiil, I play bgs. Nowhere did I say these passives are 100% perfect. But they achieve a much better balance than the ones we have on live and THAT was the goal.

For every role and playstyle you have various options to execute it.

Only 3 or 4 will be used to do content? I highly doubt that. For instance, I will make my stamblade a bosmer now because the 258 recovery synergises perfectly with the 15% recovery bonus they have and I dont have a bosmer yet.

Stop the hysteria already.

Facepalm.

There isn’t any hysteria. It is a perfectly rational and measured response to the loss of stealth reduction on Bosmer.

One doesn’t go five years of playing chess only for the GM to declare that knights can’t jump anymore.

Turelus

Some are nice, others are not.

I'm happy with a few, I think Altmer, Khajiit and Bosmer feel wonky where they threw something together to try and appease the outrage.

I think there were better more interesting options they could have gone with. Also I don't really like how some races get passive bonuses where's other get active ones.

Vulsahdaal

Not really...

Seraphayel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Basically, what I got from this "racial rebalancing" is that all DC races are now god-tier.

Everyone else? Pure, useless trash.

My 4 Bretons are now buffed beyond OP in magic, my 2 Redguards aren't incredibly better, but still in a decent place.

On the other hand, my 5 Bosmer and 4 Altmer characters have been gutted in the most lore-shattering way possible with Hawk's Eye and Spell Recharge. It's disgusting.

Enjoy that "diversity" they kept promoting this change would bring.

I've never seen this company fail so hard at meeting their original stated objective.

Your choice of words says that you don't understand how close all this is... No race is God tier, none is trash. Sustain races are able to use blue food and increase their damage, while damage races can use regen food and increase their sustain. At the moment, the second option is slightly better (because regen food is overloaded), but it doesnt have to stay that way.

As a mostly PvE player, what do I get from Hawk's Eye? From Spell Recharge?

Oh, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Just 3 skillpoints that got freed up to be used elsewhere.

Even a health bonus or any other sort of utility I could say would be useful in PvE, but these two? No way in hell.

This is outright false for Spell Recharge. It's undeniably useful in PvE, too.

I dont see it. How can you add to a tank thats already full?

On PTS I put zero points into 'spell' recharge and have had no issues. With stamina anyway

Seems pretty useless to me..

Seraphayel

Most of them look good!

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Basically, what I got from this "racial rebalancing" is that all DC races are now god-tier.

Everyone else? Pure, useless trash.

My 4 Bretons are now buffed beyond OP in magic, my 2 Redguards aren't incredibly better, but still in a decent place.

On the other hand, my 5 Bosmer and 4 Altmer characters have been gutted in the most lore-shattering way possible with Hawk's Eye and Spell Recharge. It's disgusting.

Enjoy that "diversity" they kept promoting this change would bring.

I've never seen this company fail so hard at meeting their original stated objective.

Your choice of words says that you don't understand how close all this is... No race is God tier, none is trash. Sustain races are able to use blue food and increase their damage, while damage races can use regen food and increase their sustain. At the moment, the second option is slightly better (because regen food is overloaded), but it doesnt have to stay that way.

As a mostly PvE player, what do I get from Hawk's Eye? From Spell Recharge?

Oh, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Just 3 skillpoints that got freed up to be used elsewhere.

Even a health bonus or any other sort of utility I could say would be useful in PvE, but these two? No way in hell.

This is outright false for Spell Recharge. It's undeniably useful in PvE, too.

I dont see it. How can you add to a tank thats already full?

On PTS I put zero points into 'spell' recharge and have had no issues. With stamina anyway

Seems pretty useless to me..

Well for me it has a use in solo PvE as well in group dungeons were you need stamina. What's your point? You can make use of that racial in PvE. Is it maybe more useful in PvP? It is. Is it therefore useless in PvE? In no way.

Elwendryll

Yes, absolutely!

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Elwendryll , without high crit, you're simply not using your racial passive, that's all. And since you're sitting at very low damage (and 35k is very low when talk's about limits of different races), you just don't know the difference. It's not a position from which one can judge the racial changes.

It's very low, but:
1) keep in mind I'm a sorcerer.
2) can you tell me the percentage of the playerbase that does more than that?

I think, on the contrary, it's fully relevant to judge the passives. I got a straight buff. Full raid buff is only one side of the spectrum, and as I'm not using relequen, my parses rely more on my own rotation.

I sit at 59% crit. I'm definitely using my passive, what's the point of stacking crits if you don't have high base damage?

It's nice to take into account the competitive aspect of the game, but let's be real, ESO isn't a competitive game. That's not where the money comes from.

John_Falstaff

No, I hate them!

@Elwendryll , I think sorcs hit much higher on live, but I'm not judging, just mentioning that limit is much higher for the class. And I don't think that the majority (admittedly) of players who don't do a lot of damage are in position to judge the passives, simply because in this side of spectrum, the passives don't really matter much. When you hit 35k, racial passives is not where you should look for biggest buffs. Sure, you got 2k dps right off the bat with off meta build, but then you'll want to grow as a player, you want to hit higher, you want into progression runs, and then it turns out that your buff was in fact a nerf, because you actually got your best buffs by far from your skill and gear, and now you're on top side of the spectrum looking to be competitive with others. And you can't, because you're at the point where everything is exhausted except racials - and the passives that were your 'kiddy wheels' will stop you from pushing the edge - no matter how hard you push it, your friendly dunmer neighbor will jump higher with same effort.

If you're happy staying where you are, it's okay, not judging. But I just feel it's more selfish to ask for a buff where a little effort in improving your skill will get you those 2k dps, than to ask for a buff when everything else is pushed to the limit and it's only this buff that can put you in line with others.