Are you happy with the racial changes that most likely will go live?

Seraphayel

So the last version of the PTS notes (4.3.4) was posted and there are no racial changes anymore. This means the 4.3.3 version of racials will most likely be the final version that goes live.

If you can't remember, let me copy & paste a summary of all the racial changes:


Altmer (last update: 4.3.2)

• Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain
• Spell Recharge: Restore 645 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest.
• Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Argonian (last update: 4.3.2)

• Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed
• Resourceful: Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Increased the Health, Magicka, and Stamina restore from drinking a potion to 4000 from 3620.
• Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
• Life Mender: Increased the Healing Done bonus to 6% from 4%.

Bosmer (last update: 4.3.3)

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10%
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 10% Movement Speed for 6 seconds and a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.

Breton (last update: 4.3.2)

• Increases Experience gain in Light Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Alliance Point gain
• Gift of Magnus: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Spell Attunement: Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery. The Spell Resistance granted by this effect will now be doubled if you are afflicted with Burning, Chilled, or Concussed.
• Magicka Mastery: Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.

Dunmer (last update: 4.3.2)

• Increases Experience gain in Dual Wield Skill Line by 15%, reduces damage taken from Lava by 50%
• Dynamic: Increased the Max Magicka and Stamina granted to 1875 from 1250.
• Resist Flame: Increases your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect. Removed the Max Health bonus from this passive.
• Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

Imperial (last update: 4.3.3)

• Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
• Tough: Increases your Max Health by 2000.
• Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reworked the 5% Block and Bash cost reduction to 3% cost reduction of all abilities (all the things!).

Khajiit (last update 4.3.3)

• Increases Experience gain in Medium Armor Skill Line by 15%, 5% bonus change to successfully pickpocket
• Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100. Increased the Magicka and Stamina Recovery bonuses to 85 from 75.
• Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina bonuses to 825 from 750.
• Feline Ambush: Reworked the 8% Spell and Weapon Critical Strike Chance to 10% Critical Damage and Critical Healing. Decreased the reduction of your Stealth radius to 3m from 5m.

Nord (last update: 4.3.0)

• Increases Experience gain in Two Handed Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on drink buffs
• Stalwart: Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
• Resist Frost: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
• Rugged: Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.

Orc (last update: 4.3.2)

• Increases Experience gain in Heavy Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 10% Inspiration gain
• Brawny: This passive now grants 2000 Max Stamina instead of 500 Health and 500 Stamina.
• Unflinching: This passive now grants 1000 Max Health and heals you for up to 600 when you deal damage with a weapon, with a 4 second cooldown. Previously, it granted 4% Healing Taken, and 380 Stamina and Health when dealing damage with a weapon.
• Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

Redguard (last update: 4.3.2)

• Increases One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, 15 extra minutes on food buffs
• Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%. Added a bonus that reduces the effectiveness of Snares applied to you by up to 15%.
• Conditioning: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Faulgor

Some are nice, others are not.

Altmer and Bosmer need a flavour-adjustment, Argonians still need other viable bonuses.

The rest seem fine, although you could make the argument that Orcs need to be toned down a bit.

Azyle1

I'm torn.

I love my Khajiits and they certainly aren't useless for stam builds. They are very, very viable. I just do not know how much better Dunmer / Orc will be. If, in fact they are just within ~1000 dps, then I guess I am OK with the racial changes, selfish as that may be. I don't really care mag stuff as I do not play mag.

Royaji

I just want to remind everyone about what happened in HotR PTS with mundus stone rebalancing and how live patch was significantly different than PTS version of changes with that update.

Claiming that current PTS is going live is a very questionable gamble.

MLGProPlayer

Not really...

Not really. Still lots of issues:

- Altmer: Stamina regen is a useless PvE passive; no reason to pick the race over Breton
- Khajiit: Consistently parses below Dunmer, no reason to pick them over dark elf
- Orc: Parses too high compared to the rest of the field, no reason to pick any other race for stamina
- Bosmer: Give them their stealth back
- Argonian: What is their role now?

DeadlyRecluse

If current PTS goes live, yes, I'll be happy.

I'd like to see altmer made less wonky, and personally I'd like my 20% buff to health regen back on at least one race.

BlueRaven

No, I hate them!

Bosmers losing stealth is just infuriating, and it’s clouding my judgement about everything else.

Suddwrath

Some are nice, others are not.

I was happy with some of the changes.

But the Altmer's Spell Recharge passive is just plain dumb.

Altmers are known for being spellcasters and magicka damage dealers...how on earth does it make sense to give them stamina recovery? Heck, it's even called "SPELL Recharge".

It's times like these that make me seriously question ZOS' reasoning.

Seraphayel

Most of them look good!

Royaji wrote: »

I just want to remind everyone about what happened in HotR PTS with mundus stone rebalancing and how live patch was significantly different than PTS version of changes with that update.

Claiming that current PTS is going live is a very questionable gamble.

If they wanted to make any changes to racials they would have done that in 4.3.3 or 4.3.4. They didn't 4.3.3 had minor adjustments and 4.3.4 absolutely nothing in that regard besides bug fixes. The gamble is to think 4.3.5 will have some huge surprise changes when it comes to racials.

Banana

Yes, absolutely!

Yes. Im a breton

Royaji

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

I just want to remind everyone about what happened in HotR PTS with mundus stone rebalancing and how live patch was significantly different than PTS version of changes with that update.

Claiming that current PTS is going live is a very questionable gamble.

If they wanted to make any changes to racials they would have done that in 4.3.3 or 4.3.4. They didn't 4.3.3 had minor adjustments and 4.3.4 absolutely nothing in that regard besides bug fixes. The gamble is to think 4.3.5 will have some huge surprise changes when it comes to racials.

Once again, people who did a lot of testing and figured out all the BiS in 3.1.4 PTS only to find out that in 3.1.5 everything was entirely different would like a word. Things like Kajiit changes from 4.3.3 can happen in 4.3.5 very easily.

Tommy_The_Gun

Not really...

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

martijnlv40

Not really...

Faulgor wrote: »

Altmer and Bosmer need a flavour-adjustment, Argonians still need other viable bonuses.

The rest seem fine, although you could make the argument that Orcs need to be toned down a bit.

This exactly, though I want to add to give the Dunmer 150 spell damage to fire abilities and remove a bit from their weapon/spell damage (to 200 or so), and reduce resources to 1750 (from 1875), so they have their niche back!

Seraphayel

Most of them look good!

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

I just want to remind everyone about what happened in HotR PTS with mundus stone rebalancing and how live patch was significantly different than PTS version of changes with that update.

Claiming that current PTS is going live is a very questionable gamble.

If they wanted to make any changes to racials they would have done that in 4.3.3 or 4.3.4. They didn't 4.3.3 had minor adjustments and 4.3.4 absolutely nothing in that regard besides bug fixes. The gamble is to think 4.3.5 will have some huge surprise changes when it comes to racials.

Once again, people who did a lot of testing and figured out all the BiS in 3.1.4 PTS only to find out that in 3.1.5 everything was entirely different would like a word. Things like Kajiit changes from 4.3.3 can happen in 4.3.5 very easily.

That's why I added "most likely".

Royaji

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

Every single race is viable for any kind of content. There is no discussion on that. Some of them might be more competitive than others but this is the whole point of competitive. Things can only be equally good if they are exactly the same.

Sabbathius

Some are nice, others are not.

You gotta remember what the ultimate purpose of these changes is, and always has been - money. As long as race change sells for cash, there's a strong financial incentive for the developers to poorly balance racials, so that a year down the line they can repeat the process, once again in the name of balance, and have the feeble-minded pay to race change to the optimal race yet again. And again, and again.

The only thing I can tell anyone who is unhappy - DO NOT FALL FOR THE TRICK! Stay whatever race you are. In a year or two, you are virtually guaranteed that ZOS will spin the wheel again, and your race might be optimal once more. It is a strange game they are playing, and the only way to win is not to p(l)ay.

SilverPaws

No, I hate them!

Khajiit's basically instead of ganker role are now useless. Say farewell to those few khajiit dk's, templars. This passive unusable in pvp. Good job Zos.

DeadlyRecluse

Sabbathius wrote: »

You gotta remember what the ultimate purpose of these changes is, and always has been - money. As long as race change sells for cash, there's a strong financial incentive for the developers to poorly balance racials, so that a year down the line they can repeat the process, once again in the name of balance, and have the feeble-minded pay to race change to the optimal race yet again. And again, and again.

The only thing I can tell anyone who is unhappy - DO NOT FALL FOR THE TRICK! Stay whatever race you are. In a year or two, you are virtually guaranteed that ZOS will spin the wheel again, and your race might be optimal once more. It is a strange game they are playing, and the only way to win is not to p(l)ay.

The cash grab argument lost some traction, imo, when they added 3 free change tokens.

I have 12ish max level toons...if I were to decide to play them all as endgame toons, I'd need to racechange a handful of them, but I'm not playing 12 toons at endgame. 3 tokens covers me for the foreseeable future.

....I would certainly agree if they weren't including those tokens.

Nord_Raseri

Some are nice, others are not.

most of my characters are nords. I still think they need a buff, or at least a little something added to or slightly changed. maybe add a bit of weapon damage or change the ultimate generation to 'When taking or dealing damage, gain 5 ultimate. this effect can happen every 8 seconds'. one of those changes would make nords slightly more viable as a dps.

Temeraire507

Most of them look good!

Sabbathius wrote: »

You gotta remember what the ultimate purpose of these changes is, and always has been - money. As long as race change sells for cash, there's a strong financial incentive for the developers to poorly balance racials, so that a year down the line they can repeat the process, once again in the name of balance, and have the feeble-minded pay to race change to the optimal race yet again. And again, and again.

The only thing I can tell anyone who is unhappy - DO NOT FALL FOR THE TRICK! Stay whatever race you are. In a year or two, you are virtually guaranteed that ZOS will spin the wheel again, and your race might be optimal once more. It is a strange game they are playing, and the only way to win is not to p(l)ay.

Yes and that is why they give us three free race and name change tokens. They are sooo greedy. The races totally didn't need a rebalancing or something like that. And it is absolutely mandatory for everyone to change because of 200-1000, even because of 3000 DPS (that depend on crit-luck and other random aspects in fights) at the absolute top he/she is never going to reach. We should sue them for such an insult. (I guess (or at least hope) everyone got the sarcasm)

xMovingTarget

Some are nice, others are not.

Well, Dunmers in the end are not worse than they used to. They actually got buffed. I like the dunmer changes. Also let you change from stam to mag as you feel like.

The rest looks decent. My stam chars will likely become Orc.

Some races are off for the worse though or rather substential changes. See Bosmer. Altmer too with sustain. Khajiit is just ouch.

zaria

Some are nice, others are not.

Azyle1 wrote: »

I'm torn.

I love my Khajiits and they certainly aren't useless for stam builds. They are very, very viable. I just do not know how much better Dunmer / Orc will be. If, in fact they are just within ~1000 dps, then I guess I am OK with the racial changes, selfish as that may be. I don't really care mag stuff as I do not play mag.

Khajiit need an buff after the last nerf without any comment, in fact I guess they just theory crafted effect without parsing it.
Magic Khajiit is an serious buff since live anyway.
I can live with it but we should obviously scream for buffs, Khajiit is pretty simple once you got parses simply buff a bit.

Nords and Argonians is harder because of PvP balance. For Khajiit its just to buff sustain and resources a bit.
Might throw in some block cost reduction or similar as we would be an decent tank race with some sustain buff, an potato race

Lord_Sando

Yes, absolutely!

Orc happy.......Yes?

Mudcrabber

Some are nice, others are not.

I'm still happy that Khajiit are becoming magicka-viable, though it's been a rollercoaster with it momentarily becoming best-of-everything and then having that taken away.

I'm unhappy that my Argonian DPS main is getting an across-the-board nerf, though I chose it for its looks rather than its passives.

I like that there's a reason to pick Breton now.

I feel for Bosmer's losing their stealth. I think they decided there was too much overlap with Khajiit, and that one had to go.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Yes, absolutely!

SilverPaws wrote: »

Khajiit's basically instead of ganker role are now useless. Say farewell to those few khajiit dk's, templars. This passive unusable in pvp. Good job Zos.

@SilverPaws Not necessarily. Just do a bit of theory crafting m8, youll find a solution just like I did^^

MLGProPlayer

Not really...

Royaji wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

Every single race is viable for any kind of content. There is no discussion on that. Some of them might be more competitive than others but this is the whole point of competitive. Things can only be equally good if they are exactly the same.

They could have easily adjusted values to bring all of the races closer together. All it would have taken is minor tweaks.

If we're still going to have clear-cut meta races, what was the point of this patch?

Azyle1

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

Every single race is viable for any kind of content. There is no discussion on that. Some of them might be more competitive than others but this is the whole point of competitive. Things can only be equally good if they are exactly the same.

They could have easily adjusted values to bring all of the races closer together. All it would have taken is minor tweaks.

If we're still going to have clear-cut meta races, what was the point of this patch?

I think no matter what, there will always be a clear cut meta though.

ezio45

No, I hate them!

Another disappointing patch

MLGProPlayer

Not really...

Azyle1 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have 10 races in eso. 3 or 4 of them will be vailable to do content. Nuff said...

Every single race is viable for any kind of content. There is no discussion on that. Some of them might be more competitive than others but this is the whole point of competitive. Things can only be equally good if they are exactly the same.

They could have easily adjusted values to bring all of the races closer together. All it would have taken is minor tweaks.

If we're still going to have clear-cut meta races, what was the point of this patch?

I think no matter what, there will always be a clear cut meta though.

That depends on how small they can get the gaps in DPS.

Altmer and Dunmer currently have a 125 magicka or 12 spell damage difference, which results in a virtually inconsequential difference in DPS. They could have gotten all the races within these margins if they really wanted to. The problem, as always, is that ZOS doesn't properly test changes.

cheifsoap

Not really...

Honestly, I'm a little annoyed that I'm going to have to race change to a nord in order to be a competitive tank in PVE. For PVP, I'll just delete my argonian and reroll the meta for PVP caster

simeion

Most of them look good!

Bosmer: Dodge roll passive still sucks
Argonian: 1500 health

These are the only two differences I would make.