Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

ibeprofun

Im going to make a bet on this...

After most people have exhausted their free race change tokens, ZOS will "tweek" bosmers, giving them their stealth passive back. Then, they get to charge us for new race change tokens.

It's actually just a business decision.

Sylvermynx

With my ping, I can't dodge roll or bar swap etc. So it's useless for me. Yeah I know I'm one of those edge cases, so it's a damn good thing I enjoy the game.... in other directions.

Really, I love the game. I have various issues with the combat. I also have issues with the way quests are developed. Sure I can do a lot of the "lead up" stuff on any given faction quest line....

Eh, you don't get xp on that sort of thing. And you certainly do NOT get the skill point + goodies. With 2k ms ping (all the time - it's satellite, not getting better EVER) I simply cannot get through the "mini boss" at the end of most quest lines. It's actually pretty frustrating....

ibeprofun

This is OT, but...

Maybe you should be playing a tank class. Use proc sets to kill.

oranje_elf

surprisingly, while I do not have much hopes, I still come to forums daily just to check this particular thread to see if someone from ZoS mentioned we are looking into this.

Over 3+ years of my presence in ESO I survived through many nerfs to my beloved characters, yet somehow I managed to adapt to all of them. This nerf is the first one I have serious difficulties with. I always knew that my bosmer is not the best-race-in-slot, there were always races who damaged more, tanked better, etc. But OK, I understand, it is an mmo, and the main combat developer/designer just has another race as his favorite.

Yet, there was something what made bosmer better than others - I could pretend playing him that the stealthy questing gameplay mattered. I roleplayed a stealthy assassin/thief knowing I am the best stealthy character (even if it did not matter much from the mechanics point of view - and this is actually quite obvious now after easily finishing all the heists during the event without the stealthy passive). Still, in my head this knowing that I excel at something helped roleplaying. I cannot roleplay him anymore. I just know that imperials are more stealthy. I cannot see my character as the stealthiest assassin any more.

Please, promise us that you would at least consider looking through the racial passives once more.
One more time, in a year (or whenever). So that we all (bosmers) may have a hope.

Cundu_Ertur

Tasear wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Bosmer just add something that makes they good at stealth not just finding people in stealth... like movement speed.

Since they are big on giving set bonuses as passives now, rather than percentages, then why not make the stealth part of the Bosmer passive the same as the Night's Silence or Shadow Dancer's Raiment sets: Ignore the movement penalty of Sneak. Then my Bosmer can trade the NS set for Night Mother's Embrace and be back to an additional 2 meter detection reduction when paired with the 2 meter reduction of the 3 pc bonus of Night Terror set.

It's not quite the 3 meters we had before, and would still put us 1 meter less stealthy than Khajiit.... but it would still make both Bosmer and Khajiit have to wear 2 stealth related sets to hit the cap of both reduction and speed combined.

That also negates a significant vampire perk, and a top level one at that (dark stalker, 9 level vampire req, only procs at stage 4).
I don't see why this is complicated. It was a mistake to take stealth away from Bosmer. Rectify the mistake by not doing that.

Issue is khajitt already has that perk and they wanted things differently between races. So I do believe bosmers do have a case lorewise I think if calling for changes got to see how bosmers can have shealth but not same as khajitt. Also unlike shealth detection make them good as theives.

And that's silly. What will Breton get since Altmer get magic? There hasn't been a problem with Bosmer and Khajiit both having bonuses to stealth for over 15 years. It is part of the lore for both races, some of which goes even farther back to Daggerfall and beyond, every bit as much as magic is part of the lore for Breton and Altmer. It is impossible to keep from duplicating parts of passives for things: the way Orcs and Dunmer overlap with their respective weapons damage bonuses, or the various stamina bonuses for several races, or the various magicka bonuses for several races. It's silly to single stealth out with some kind of highlanderesque 'there can be only one' nonsense. There has NEVER been only one stealthy race in TES. Ever. It's silly, monumentally Dr. Seuss level rhyming silly, to start with that now.

edit to add: the problem is that the original bonus was too high, and the ability for other races to get a similar bonus non-existent. The racial bonus (which ought to be shared between the Khajiit and Bosmer) should be lower, 1/2 to 1/3 of what it is now; and every race should be able to improve their stealth to a greater degree than now possible.

I don't disagree but that's what it says how the approached design changes. The unique non combat things were a looked as one per race as you can see.

So I suggest consider weighing debate with understanding why they made changes then try to convince them otherwise.

How would khajitt be different from bosmer in shealth feature? Why should they both have same or different? How has changes to bosmers impacted gameplay. Show them how this is still very important to your gameplay experience.

You've admitted there were mistakes in how the Bosmer got treated, but I think there was a more fundamental mistake that may be getting overlooked.

Several times we have brought up the fact that things like stamina or magic pools are shared, but you were like (and I'm very loosely paraphrasing here), "but those things matter." And that's an even more fundamental issue than completely getting the Bosmer lore wrong. Because stealth is part of the archetypal gameplay that has been at the core of all TES games. The archetypes have always been warrior, mage, thief. The trivialization of stealth as an unimportant bit of roleplay fluffy lore-based flavor is basically removing the thief from that triad. If I'm right, that this is how stealth is viewed, then the promise to revamp the legerdemain systems is almost certainly going to be an unending bucket of woe and misery for those of us who have always been more thief than warrior or mage.

luizpaulom17

Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

I hated losing my cat 8% crit, was crying on forums for it... and when changes came to Live got 2k more DPS on first try... They did a good job over all, ony orc now seems a bit OP, but still its more balanced.

Cundu_Ertur

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

I hated losing my cat 8% crit, was crying on forums for it... and when changes came to Live got 2k more DPS on first try... They did a good job over all, ony orc now seems a bit OP, but still its more balanced.

Actually my ability to use cloak and snipe is completely unaffected, so you lose there.
What the gankers would complain about was the loss of the 10% damage boost out of stealth, which we haven't complained about at all, so you lose there.
We've already addressed this multiple times, so you lose there.

kthnxbye

BlueRaven

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

I hated losing my cat 8% crit, was crying on forums for it... and when changes came to Live got 2k more DPS on first try... They did a good job over all, ony orc now seems a bit OP, but still its more balanced.

I don’t think this guy is trolling, just 100% bad reading comprehension.

I know this thread is long, but maybe at least read the first and last pages.

oranje_elf

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

To spam cloak you need a better mana regen, stealth passive does not help you with that. Like, at all.

Alucardmike

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

I hated losing my cat 8% crit, was crying on forums for it... and when changes came to Live got 2k more DPS on first try... They did a good job over all, ony orc now seems a bit OP, but still its more balanced.

Excuse me, if I got you wrong, but you are only talking of PVP or heighend gamers.

To be honest, I do about 3k/4k dps. I know I am a bad player, but I am a roleplayer, so I only use one bar and only one weapon (bow). In the other hand, I have a dagger/shortsword.

So please tell me how this patch helps mewith my role, as a merchant of Valenwood and thief of Altmer? It doesn't. Because I do nearly no fighting. Only to protect myself. (Or my goods)

wedgebert

Sylvermynx wrote: »

With my ping, I can't dodge roll or bar swap etc. So it's useless for me. Yeah I know I'm one of those edge cases, so it's a damn good thing I enjoy the game.... in other directions.

Really, I love the game. I have various issues with the combat. I also have issues with the way quests are developed. Sure I can do a lot of the "lead up" stuff on any given faction quest line....

Eh, you don't get xp on that sort of thing. And you certainly do NOT get the skill point + goodies. With 2k ms ping (all the time - it's satellite, not getting better EVER) I simply cannot get through the "mini boss" at the end of most quest lines. It's actually pretty frustrating....

You say you're an edge case, but there's probably more players in your ping-challenged situation than people who have niche roll-dodge builds that can actually benefit from Hunter's Eye.

Anthony_Arndt

Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »

Maybe we are looking and talking about this the wrong way.....

What if ZoS/ESO is invoking "The right of theft" on our stealth reduction and we must give them something of equal value to acknowledge the prowess they have shown in stealing from us!

You... might have something there.

So.. how many wheels of cheese would it take?

And are there any Bosmer players in the Baltimore area?

Ratzkifal

wedgebert wrote: »

Like you said there's not a lot you can do with stealth. It's really only

1. Harder to spot
2. Move faster
3. Hide faster
4. Less cost
5. Improved damage

I was also coming to this conclusion pretty much. There are several options for 5, but only one way for 2 to 4. For 1 I was thinking about making a difference between radius while moving and radius while standing still, but I don't want to take away the radius of Khajiit when they suddenly stop moving, so that only leaves radius while standing still. They said that 5m were too much, because people could sneak up right to under a guard's nose, but if you can't walk there, then maybe those 5m wouldn't be a problem. Then again, in PvP Bosmer could hide in keeps and basically stay undetectable unless you use flare. Not sure if that is a good thing, but it would certainly give the skill more use.

#3 hiding faster has lots of uses in PvP, but doesn't help in a heist or sacramant all that much. An invisibility frame upon crouching wouldn't work either, because that would mess things up in PvP too (being equivalent to a dodgeroll at 0 cost). It could work on a cooldown though maybe. "Upon crouching, your character turns invisible for 1 second. This effect can only activate once every 16 seconds" or something along the lines. It would also work like a safety net in a way, when an NPC tries to attack you in a sacrament, because you screwed up and they noticed, you could crouch and they wouldn't chase you. What are your thoughts on that? Could that make up for the loss of 3meters?

wedgebert

The problem with a short duration invisibility is that if you screw up in a sacrament or pickpocketing or something, you'd crouch, go invisible, but the NPC would likely be running towards you the whole time. So it's very likely that as soon as the invisibility frame wears off, you'd just be instantly detected again.

I would like it if all traits were balanced towards PvE since that's where most of them are right now anyways. Really only Bosmer and Altmer have PvP focused passives at the moment. Hunter's Eye being of little to no use outside of PvP and not much use inside of it either (many reports of the improved stealth detection also making it so you are detected). And the Altmer Spell Recharge is pretty worthless in PvE since if you do mechanics even halfway decently, you'll always have enough stamina (as a magicka altmer) to dodge/block. Plus, way more people PvE than PvP.

If they want to have PvP passives, they should add a 4th passive to each race that only works in BGs or Cyrodiil/IC. That way all races an have something instead of shafting two races (both AD!) with a lose of PvE power.

Cundu_Ertur

wedgebert wrote: »

The problem with a short duration invisibility is that if you screw up in a sacrament or pickpocketing or something, you'd crouch, go invisible, but the NPC would likely be running towards you the whole time. So it's very likely that as soon as the invisibility frame wears off, you'd just be instantly detected again.

I would like it if all traits were balanced towards PvE since that's where most of them are right now anyways. Really only Bosmer and Altmer have PvP focused passives at the moment. Hunter's Eye being of little to no use outside of PvP and not much use inside of it either (many reports of the improved stealth detection also making it so you are detected). And the Altmer Spell Recharge is pretty worthless in PvE since if you do mechanics even halfway decently, you'll always have enough stamina (as a magicka altmer) to dodge/block. Plus, way more people PvE than PvP.

If they want to have PvP passives, they should add a 4th passive to each race that only works in BGs or Cyrodiil/IC. That way all races an have something instead of shafting two races (both AD!) with a lose of PvE power.

While this is a bit off-topic, what they should have done with spell recharge is that for every rank in that passive you regain more magic, but you also become increasingly vulnerable to magic damage. This reflects how Altmer were in previous games. Each player could choose: better regen but higher vulnerability, or less vulnerable with lower regen. The flavor description would be that Altmer can draw on the latent power of previously cast spells in a fight, but doing so opens them up to incoming magical damage.

Ratzkifal

wedgebert wrote: »

The problem with a short duration invisibility is that if you screw up in a sacrament or pickpocketing or something, you'd crouch, go invisible, but the NPC would likely be running towards you the whole time. So it's very likely that as soon as the invisibility frame wears off, you'd just be instantly detected again.

If I remember correctly, then NPCs actually stop moving if you go invisible. Guards will throw a flare at the position they last saw you, but one second should be enough to get away from it. If only we had some way to test these hypothetical passives to see if they would even work the way we want them to.

wedgebert

But do we really want them? We were all pretty happy with the 3m stealth reduction and there wasn't any weird interactions with it. Plus it was more helpful in things like heists (where getting caught at all is the penalty) and open world thieving.

A brief invisibility window still seems more tailored to PvP as it won't help much in PvE unless it can work while in combat, but that just makes it rather strong. Especially when paired with skills that do extra damage or have effect riders when used from stealth.

Plus, it still seems like it's intruding on the vampire skill line since that's currently the only way to stealth faster. I really don't see them devaluing a skill line that they sell for crowns (even if it's obtainable other ways)

Ratzkifal

wedgebert wrote: »

But do we really want them? We were all pretty happy with the 3m stealth reduction and there wasn't any weird interactions with it. Plus it was more helpful in things like heists (where getting caught at all is the penalty) and open world thieving.

A brief invisibility window still seems more tailored to PvP as it won't help much in PvE unless it can work while in combat, but that just makes it rather strong. Especially when paired with skills that do extra damage or have effect riders when used from stealth.

Plus, it still seems like it's intruding on the vampire skill line since that's currently the only way to stealth faster. I really don't see them devaluing a skill line that they sell for crowns (even if it's obtainable other ways)

Why would it not work in combat? That was the whole idea behind it. The cooldown should prevent abuse on Nightblades. It's a good point about devaluing that skill line though, but then again, what are our other options? I would rather like the 3m back as well, since no other buff is nearly as generally useful in stealth gameplay as 3m reduction. Without those 3m, the only thing that would be helpful I feel is something like that. Even speed isn't as needed, although I would already be happy about anything that represents the stealth lore.

The more I think about it the less I think there can be a compromise that satisfies everyone (ZOS's presumed standpoint, balance, lore, us).

wedgebert

I assumed it wouldn't work in combat because you can't stealth in combat. And the few times I've tried to use cloak or an invisibility potion in combat, combat didn't end for me. But it's quite possible I was doing something wrong.

I'm definitely to ideas to replace the stealth radius, but like you said, nothing seems a useful. Getting stuck with some sort of niche stealth talent is just as bad as not having stealth.

None of this is helped by ZOS's adamant refusal to even acknowledge to the public that there is even a valid issue. They've been completely silent on the matter despite a bunch of different threads on the subject and this thread being one the largest active threads around.

billp_ESO

I wasn't sure why ZoS would decide to suddenly change a fundamental lore action. Sometimes MMO's change just for the sake of the illusion of progress.

But if the next DLC to be sold is focused on Khajit, it makes perfect sense that ZoS would nerf the stealth for Bosmer.

That would be just like them.

Universe

billp_ESO wrote: »

I wasn't sure why ZoS would decide to suddenly change a fundamental lore action. Sometimes MMO's change just for the sake of the illusion of progress.

But if the next DLC to be sold is focused on Khajit, it makes perfect sense that ZoS would nerf the stealth for Bosmer.

That would be just like them.

While this may be logical business-financial wise, it is kind of a conspiracy theory...

anadandy

Today on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/b2jriv/the_sneaky_bosmer/

Ratzkifal

anadandy wrote: »

Today on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/b2jriv/the_sneaky_bosmer/

Putting it here so everyone can enjoy it. Source is the link above.

KMarble

ibeprofun wrote: »

Im going to make a bet on this...

After most people have exhausted their free race change tokens, ZOS will "tweek" bosmers, giving them their stealth passive back. Then, they get to charge us for new race change tokens.

It's actually just a business decision.

They gave us 3 (three) race change tokens. If one changes one's wood elf to another race and the devs revert the passive back to what it was, one would still have 2 (two) tokens to change back.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

With my ping, I can't dodge roll or bar swap etc. So it's useless for me. Yeah I know I'm one of those edge cases, so it's a damn good thing I enjoy the game.... in other directions.

Really, I love the game. I have various issues with the combat. I also have issues with the way quests are developed. Sure I can do a lot of the "lead up" stuff on any given faction quest line....

Eh, you don't get xp on that sort of thing. And you certainly do NOT get the skill point + goodies. With 2k ms ping (all the time - it's satellite, not getting better EVER) I simply cannot get through the "mini boss" at the end of most quest lines. It's actually pretty frustrating....

I play on a substandard (to most people) computer with an awful internet speed. Although I can do some of the stuff you say you can't, my setup and my skills (or lack thereof) makes it so that I'm not good at a lot in this game.

Despite those issues, playing a thief was never a problem. So, yeah, taking stealth away from wood elves crippled my game.

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Stop crying m8... U just want that passive back so U can keep using cloak and snipe on BGs, like most elves and Cats used tu do... Get over it...

I hated losing my cat 8% crit, was crying on forums for it... and when changes came to Live got 2k more DPS on first try... They did a good job over all, ony orc now seems a bit OP, but still its more balanced.

What if I told you that I don't PVP and that my wood elf cannot cloak?

Ratzkifal wrote: »

#3 hiding faster has lots of uses in PvP, but doesn't help in a heist or sacramant all that much. An invisibility frame upon crouching wouldn't work either, because that would mess things up in PvP too (being equivalent to a dodgeroll at 0 cost). It could work on a cooldown though maybe. "Upon crouching, your character turns invisible for 1 second. This effect can only activate once every 16 seconds" or something along the lines. It would also work like a safety net in a way, when an NPC tries to attack you in a sacrament, because you screwed up and they noticed, you could crouch and they wouldn't chase you. What are your thoughts on that? Could that make up for the loss of 3meters?

Not for me, it wouldn't. Unless I misunderstood what you mean by this temporary invisibility. This is what I understood from your proposition : change the word stealth to invisibility and make it last only one sec.

IMO heists, and to an extent sacraments, are a very bad way to understand how stealth works in this game. Once you steal or kill successfully outside of heists and sacraments, the deed is done and you can keep on playing as if nothing had happened. Your char can only be punished if they are caught in the act.

Because of the mechanics of the game, giving chars a temporary invisibility won't help with stealing since it takes several seconds to place the char right, and even when someone gets the timing just right, the cool down would make the second and third attempt a nightmare, as we would have to wait even longer - while moving the char, so it doesn't get detected.

I only did one heist before the event that ended today. I failed that first one (went over the time limit), but thought it was because I didn't know the map. After getting more acquainted with them due to the event I realized that heists are the complete opposite of how stealing works in the rest of the game.

With day-to-day stealing, I crouch and approach slowly, repositioning my char ever so slightly to get a better angle. Then the game forces me to wait for a green light and a bell so I can finally activate the action (when picking a pocket. The last part is unnecessary when stealing from containers). Heists (and sacraments after the targets are down) are about speed.
While I do agree that a thief should also be good at running, running isn't stealth and the game doesn't have a mechanic that catches the thief/assassin after the fact.

Ratzkifal

KMarble wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

#3 hiding faster has lots of uses in PvP, but doesn't help in a heist or sacramant all that much. An invisibility frame upon crouching wouldn't work either, because that would mess things up in PvP too (being equivalent to a dodgeroll at 0 cost). It could work on a cooldown though maybe. "Upon crouching, your character turns invisible for 1 second. This effect can only activate once every 16 seconds" or something along the lines. It would also work like a safety net in a way, when an NPC tries to attack you in a sacrament, because you screwed up and they noticed, you could crouch and they wouldn't chase you. What are your thoughts on that? Could that make up for the loss of 3meters?

Not for me, it wouldn't. Unless I misunderstood what you mean by this temporary invisibility. This is what I understood from your proposition : change the word stealth to invisibility and make it last only one sec.

IMO heists, and to an extent sacraments, are a very bad way to understand how stealth works in this game. Once you steal or kill successfully outside of heists and sacraments, the deed is done and you can keep on playing as if nothing had happened. Your char can only be punished if they are caught in the act.

Because of the mechanics of the game, giving chars a temporary invisibility won't help with stealing since it takes several seconds to place the char right, and even when someone gets the timing just right, the cool down would make the second and third attempt a nightmare, as we would have to wait even longer - while moving the char, so it doesn't get detected.

I only did one heist before the event that ended today. I failed that first one (went over the time limit), but thought it was because I didn't know the map. After getting more acquainted with them due to the event I realized that heists are the complete opposite of how stealing works in the rest of the game.

With day-to-day stealing, I crouch and approach slowly, repositioning my char ever so slightly to get a better angle. Then the game forces me to wait for a green light and a bell so I can finally activate the action (when picking a pocket. The last part is unnecessary when stealing from containers). Heists (and sacraments after the targets are down) are about speed.
While I do agree that a thief should also be good at running, running isn't stealth and the game doesn't have a mechanic that catches the thief/assassin after the fact.

This is not meant to replace sneaking of course. But it allows to go into sneak successfully even during combat (as long as you get out of detection range during that 1 second). Think of it as pressing ctrl being like casting cloak at 0 magicka cost and 1second duration once every X seconds.

Outside of Heists and Sacraments, sneaking is not a punishable offense and in trespassing areas, being detected can often result in combat immediately upon being detected, which may just result in more people detecting you and more enemies fighting you. Sure, it wouldn't be as great as avoiding a bounty in the first place, but it would make getting away (and trying again) easier.

It's not optimal and I am not that big of a fan of my idea either. All I tried was to come up with a good compromise between being unique (the way ZOS seems to want it) and being actually useful for a stealth passive.

Cundu_Ertur

No offense, and I get what you are saying, but buying into this false narrative is not going to end well. Imagine that only one race would get bonuses relevant to being a warrior, and only one race would get bonuses relevant to being a mage. We don't have to imagine for the thief, because that's the moronic crapsack world that we're in. What is the archetype or role for all of the remaining 7 races? Nothing is what. Bosmer, along with Khajiit, have always been part of that thief archetype before. Stealth -- sneaky hiding better stealth -- is vital for a thief, the way magic is for a mage.

Ratzkifal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

No offense, and I get what you are saying, but buying into this false narrative is not going to end well. Imagine that only one race would get bonuses relevant to being a warrior, and only one race would get bonuses relevant to being a mage. We don't have to imagine for the thief, because that's the moronic crapsack world that we're in. What is the archetype or role for all of the remaining 7 races? Nothing is what. Bosmer, along with Khajiit, have always been part of that thief archetype before. Stealth -- sneaky hiding better stealth -- is vital for a thief, the way magic is for a mage.

I'm not buying into it, don't worry. Think of it as proof through contraposition. Since it's pretty damn impossible to come up with something that allows Bosmer and Khajiit to be equally sneaky in two very different ways, we can only conclude that the opposite must be the case and we either need to accept shared passives if we want to stay true to the lore or the stealth system needs to be expanded enough to make room for more unique approaches to stealth.
Eitherway, ZOS needs to do something about it, because we won't accept having our lore get compromised!

Cundu_Ertur

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

No offense, and I get what you are saying, but buying into this false narrative is not going to end well. Imagine that only one race would get bonuses relevant to being a warrior, and only one race would get bonuses relevant to being a mage. We don't have to imagine for the thief, because that's the moronic crapsack world that we're in. What is the archetype or role for all of the remaining 7 races? Nothing is what. Bosmer, along with Khajiit, have always been part of that thief archetype before. Stealth -- sneaky hiding better stealth -- is vital for a thief, the way magic is for a mage.

I'm not buying into it, don't worry. Think of it as proof through contraposition. Since it's pretty damn impossible to come up with something that allows Bosmer and Khajiit to be equally sneaky in two very different ways, we can only conclude that the opposite must be the case and we either need to accept shared passives if we want to stay true to the lore or the stealth system needs to be expanded enough to make room for more unique approaches to stealth.
Eitherway, ZOS needs to do something about it, because we won't accept having our lore get compromised!

Ahhhh, the double secret triple reverse play. Sorry I blew it for ya, man.

BlueRaven

anadandy wrote: »

Today on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/b2jriv/the_sneaky_bosmer/

The comments were particularly interesting, it appears that even now there are some people who didn't know Bosmers lost their stealth passive.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Sithis' Shadow are you lot still banging on about this?

If you have not adapted to the change by now you should reroll something easier because a stealth character is not for you. Wycymyr my Nord Thief laughs at those that need the old Bosmer passive to be able to give pockets a good rummage