PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

satanio

Imperial Red Diamond passive is applied in a same way as Sturdy trait.

Formula is as follows
Block Cost = (( 1730 - Shield-Play ) * (1-Shadow Ward) (1-Sturdy) ( 1-Fortress) *(1-New Red Diamond)) * (1-Defensive Posture)

So 2 shieldplay enchants, 23% in shadow ward, 4 Sturdy items on live makes your block cost = 502
With new passive ON PTS it makes it to 477. So Imperial tank gains 25 stamina per 0,5 sec at best scenario.
Non-tank players get the cost of block from 1730 down to 1643 stam cost, which is not great either.

@ZOS_Gilliam
Please, I suggest to change the Red Diamond block cost % reduction to flat value of 203 block cost instead, basically make it like Shield-Play enchantment. It would make it far significant, I mean cmon, Imperial really needs some love.

jaysins

I tested Orc out last night and the health and stam changes are fairly brutal. I had 1k less health on a medium armor build in cyrodiil which is pretty rough. Stam was down as well but I definitely felt the health one more and having such low health doesn't really fit the orc archetype imo. The healing from attacking isn't as strong as the health recovery was in cyrodiil but still better than nothing and getting some stam back was nice so a fair trade off. I think the movement bonus of swift should be all movement and not just sprint as when fighting that's where it will be noticeable and really beneficial.

Vapirko

@BaylorCorvette thats interesting, here are my stats in CP PvP I just wrote something up quickly and posted about it. It's interesting that I have a ton more max stam than you but am losing only a few hundred more in the change. I would have expected that in comparison to me you'd lose almost nothing around that 33k mark. Are your stats with CP?

In Cyro on live my stats are 37589 stamina and 26921 health
On PTS stats are 36021stamina and 26026 health

katorga

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The magicka loss from Gift of Magnus was bigger than expected. We had calculated that 1500 or so will be lost. I personally have really lost 2k though. Another proof, math isn't always reliable here.

All my elemental damage has dropped by a 100 on tooltips. The added spell damage to elemental talent can't compensate for this loss. While all of this isn't the end of the world, being weakened again isn't a good feeling.

@Dracane Your post made me check it on PTS and yeah. Math is reliable. For some reasons, I hope it is bug, ZoS decided that the racial stat bonuses arent affected by CP at all.

It doesnt make sense why would they go with this and add another confusing thing to account for, so I am almost settling on it being bug.

My gut says that over time, maybe a few patch cycles, ZOS will hammer on max stats to keep them flat or lower to get ahead of power inflation. Likely combined with some radical changes to CP, and replacing open-ended percentage increases with flat values in every situation where a flat value doesn't over-power, for example small dot ticks or hot ticks.

Dracane

Derra wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The magicka loss from Gift of Magnus was bigger than expected. We had calculated that 1500 or so will be lost. I personally have really lost 2k though. Another proof, math isn't always reliable here.

All my elemental damage has dropped by a 100 on tooltips. The added spell damage to elemental talent can't compensate for this loss. While all of this isn't the end of the world, being weakened again isn't a good feeling.

@Dracane Your post made me check it on PTS and yeah. Math is reliable. For some reasons, I hope it is bug, ZoS decided that the racial stat bonuses arent affected by CP at all.

It doesnt make sense why would they go with this and add another confusing thing to account for, so I am almost settling on it being bug.

It´s sadly not a bug as it´s mentioned in an official post to work that way by Gilliam.

The racial ressources are supposed to not scale properly ? O.o That is even more of a nerf then than expected.
They ASSURED us that flat values would be so great, because they scale with everything. Now we get to know they do not scale and are not great at all ?

This enrages me all over again.

Maseri

Looking over the racial changes, I have to say the Bosmer’s Steath passive needs some work:

Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

I understand wanting to get rid of the damage done from stealth because it is a niche benefit, that is completely fine and makes sense, but changing this passive into two even more niche benefits is going in the wrong direction. I don't like getting rid of the reduction to detection radius but if you're going to stick with it Hunter's Eye needs to at least expand to 5m to mirror the benefit Khajiit receive.

If you're going to rework this, I would give Bosmer the same reduction in stealth detection radius bonus Khajiit receive with 5m and give some X% reduction to roll dodge cost or sprint cost. Both of these are more universal benefits which can be tuned easily and as a whole keep in line with the flavor Bosmer had previously.

BaylorCorvette

Vapirko wrote: »

@BaylorCorvette thats interesting, here are my stats in CP PvP I just wrote something up quickly and posted about it. It's interesting that I have a ton more max stam than you but am losing only a few hundred more in the change. I would have expected that in comparison to me you'd lose almost nothing around that 33k mark. Are your stats with CP?

In Cyro on live my stats are 37589 stamina and 26921 health
On PTS stats are 36021stamina and 26026 health

@Vapirko my stats are in CP, yes. You're losing 4.35% of your stam and I'm losing 3.99% of my stam. I'm sure the 0.36% difference is in some sort of rounding issue with how ZoS calculates things.

Vapirko

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

@BaylorCorvette thats interesting, here are my stats in CP PvP I just wrote something up quickly and posted about it. It's interesting that I have a ton more max stam than you but am losing only a few hundred more in the change. I would have expected that in comparison to me you'd lose almost nothing around that 33k mark. Are your stats with CP?

In Cyro on live my stats are 37589 stamina and 26921 health
On PTS stats are 36021stamina and 26026 health

@Vapirko my stats are in CP, yes. You're losing 4.35% of your stam and I'm losing 3.99% of my stam. I'm sure the 0.36% difference is in some sort of rounding issue with how ZoS calculates things.

So this is essentially much worse if your Stam is already low, which is kind of the opposite of what it was assumed to be. So probably hulking draugr will see a lot more use. Well idk. For my build it’s fine. For some reason I thought that, because it was previously a percentage, that the max stat would be better the lower your Stam but it appears that it would have to be so much lower as to be not viable. An interesting although not welcome development.

BaylorCorvette

Vapirko wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

@BaylorCorvette thats interesting, here are my stats in CP PvP I just wrote something up quickly and posted about it. It's interesting that I have a ton more max stam than you but am losing only a few hundred more in the change. I would have expected that in comparison to me you'd lose almost nothing around that 33k mark. Are your stats with CP?

In Cyro on live my stats are 37589 stamina and 26921 health
On PTS stats are 36021stamina and 26026 health

@Vapirko my stats are in CP, yes. You're losing 4.35% of your stam and I'm losing 3.99% of my stam. I'm sure the 0.36% difference is in some sort of rounding issue with how ZoS calculates things.

So this is essentially much worse if your Stam is already low, which is kind of the opposite of what it was assumed to be. So probably hulking draugr will see a lot more use. Well idk. For my build it’s fine. For some reason I thought that, because it was previously a percentage, that the max stat would be better the lower your Stam but it appears that it would have to be so much lower as to be not viable. An interesting although not welcome development.

I don't know if I'd completely agree with that assessment. On live you get more bang for your buck if you stack max resources because of % amps. Now racials are losing that. Like I mentioned in my previous post, you're losing 4.35% of your stam from live to PTS vs my 3.99%. In whole numbers, you're losing 1,568 stamina and I'm losing 1,234 stamina. A difference of 334 stamina or about the equivalent of 31.8 weapon damage (using 10.5 stamina is about equal to 1 weapon damage).

I don't know what sets you run, but I suspect your tool tip values will be effected about same as mine from live to PTS. So the question comes down to whether or not 30.9k stamina is acceptable vs 36k. For StamSorc and my playstyle the answer is likely to be yes. However for your Stamplar since you're going for larger POTL ticks and do not have access to dark deal you staying with higher stamina probably makes more sense.

In summary, not much is changing other than our total max stamina is dropping 3.99-4.35%.

Anoregon

Arseny wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

I'd love to see weapon and spell damage instead of healing done on the Argonian passive, since weapon and spell damage affect healing done AND give Argonians a damage option.

^This is the best decision, it allows people who play Argonians, not to only be tanks or healers, but also to be competitive DD.
My main character is Argonian Stamina DD, and it is pretty hard to have a good DPS in any serious veteran content.

Indeed. With the current changes leaving the potion-based passive in place (but nerfed) and the nerfing of everything else, Argonians are pretty much bottom of the barrel at everything except healing, and they were already a weak DD choice. It seems like such a waste to not have them be competitive options in a DD role.

And if it takes the complete removal of the current potion mechanic in resourcefulness in order to free up enough racial budget to allow for that sort of damage buff, I'd be more than ok with that.

Vapirko

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

@BaylorCorvette thats interesting, here are my stats in CP PvP I just wrote something up quickly and posted about it. It's interesting that I have a ton more max stam than you but am losing only a few hundred more in the change. I would have expected that in comparison to me you'd lose almost nothing around that 33k mark. Are your stats with CP?

In Cyro on live my stats are 37589 stamina and 26921 health
On PTS stats are 36021stamina and 26026 health

@Vapirko my stats are in CP, yes. You're losing 4.35% of your stam and I'm losing 3.99% of my stam. I'm sure the 0.36% difference is in some sort of rounding issue with how ZoS calculates things.

So this is essentially much worse if your Stam is already low, which is kind of the opposite of what it was assumed to be. So probably hulking draugr will see a lot more use. Well idk. For my build it’s fine. For some reason I thought that, because it was previously a percentage, that the max stat would be better the lower your Stam but it appears that it would have to be so much lower as to be not viable. An interesting although not welcome development.

I don't know if I'd completely agree with that assessment. On live you get more bang for your buck if you stack max resources because of % amps. Now racials are losing that. Like I mentioned in my previous post, you're losing 4.35% of your stam from live to PTS vs my 3.99%. In whole numbers, you're losing 1,568 stamina and I'm losing 1,234 stamina. A difference of 334 stamina or about the equivalent of 31.8 weapon damage (using 10.5 stamina is about equal to 1 weapon damage).

I don't know what sets you run, but I suspect your tool tip values will be effected about same as mine from live to PTS. So the question comes down to whether or not 30.9k stamina is acceptable vs 36k. For StamSorc and my playstyle the answer is likely to be yes. However for your Stamplar since you're going for larger POTL ticks and do not have access to dark deal you staying with higher stamina probably makes more sense.

In summary, not much is changing other than our total max stamina is dropping 3.99-4.35%.

I’ll be fine with that amount, I was more concerned about your build lol. In that case I’m okay with it and if this is the balance for Orc I’m good. If they want to to toss in more Stam/health then great but I doubt they will. My tool tip for PoL does take a hit but it’s not gonna be a game changer. Everything else looks good with the exchange for wpn damage. Maybe slightly lower or higher depending, ill have to do a closer comparison another time. All said and done I don’t think it’s gonna be too much difference. More like they just moved things around as apprised to a big nerf which imo is a plus in the context of most eso changes. Feels like what a balance pass should feel like.

Xvorg

The saddest part is that we will give all the right suggestions, but ZoS will still keep their vision....

BaylorCorvette

Yeah it's not going to be game breaking if they keep health and stamina at 500 but I really do think 1k of each would make things a bit better. Fortunatley the 380 stamina return every 4 seconds will help with the stamina recovery as well. However, the 380 heal is such a waste IMO. won't do much in PvE and is completely useless in PvP with battle spirit cutting that heal into 140 every 4 seconds. I rather see that heal eliminated and buff the stamina return to 500-600.

Cireous

Give some stealthy stuff back to my Bosmer please. That is all.

Beruge

Did argonian just get nerfed to pre-Wrothgar?

To be honest, with as radical changes as this, its is 1 or 2

1: You lost your vision.
or
2: You never had a vision.

One thing is slightly tweaking the races, another thing is fully reworking the races. This is huge change to the core of the game.

And as with all the other subjects you keeps messing up like;

1: introducing tons of proc sets like viper sting.
2: Nerf proc sets, because "it was not inteded to work like this"
3: Introduce sloads
4: Repeat step 2.

What is said that these changes will create balance? Will it be like all the previous times you mess up? Where the new meta somehow "suprisingly" is related to the new dlc/chapter.

These racial balancing notes, looks very little like 'balancing note'. What they look more like is meta changing notes, and they look strangely related to the race change tokens - that "suprsingly" just got on sale.

SodanTok

General feedback:

Overall the balance went in the right direction and I like it. But I feel like choice (if it was choice) to exclude resources from being amplified by CP (20%) affects the balance this update was trying to achieve. If going by set bonus value, 129 weapon damage is 1 set bonus same as 1096 stamina (or however much it is) and that is fine, but on sets those stats are increased from CP. If racial resources arent increased on CP they are essentially worth less than would same amount be on set.

Other point is that I think the race passives went little too high with the numbers. Giving huge amount of damage/regen/resources. Much smaller numbers would have been better for balance imo.

Altmer
I think giving altmer both highest value of magicka and spell damage and somewhat significant sustain passive is overkill. Even if they are actually balanced compares to others it just seems like they got too much damage focus on them.

Bosmer
From PVP standpoint great changes. And it seems in PVE they went from worst to balanced race. I just hope when inevitably people cry enough and cause change in either the sneak stuff or the speed stuff the other passives will be buffed in response to improve damage/sustain.

Dark Elf
I like that Dark Elf changes that put them as another option for hybrid race and I definitely dont want to see return of singular purpose passives (like fire damage). But I agree this was quite drastic change for this race and its use (best magDD -> hybrid choice) and if not anyone else at least every dark elf should have been compensated with race change for each char they have.

Khajiit
As a khajiit stamDD I am not unhappy but neither I am happy with the changes. Offering more hybrid option is always nice, but it feels like it just weakens it as option (I know, fits dunmer too). I think it deserves buff to sustain and I know it means sacrificing something else - and that something else should be health regen. Helath regen is useful stat in PVP, but only in one variant - % buff. Old passive acting as % allowed to comboes with high health recovery granting sets (notably troll king). Change from % to just base value is not in any way good trade. It is now worthless recovery. I understand it cant be % again but if it isnt % it just doesnt do anything and only feels like waste. Even something like 25 stam/mag recovery instead of it would be better (and thats less than 100 health recovery in set bonus value!)

Nord
Good buffs but one big mistake. Ulti gen. It feels cool and it definitely is cool but it just ruins the balance when it comes to support options. All other race options are selfish options. This is the only option out of all races that can support others because ultimates that can support other exist. Support roles (mostly in pve) are already maxed on support capabilitie as much as they can (3 sets, many support skills) and this just added another. It doesnt matter that other options offer better sustain or stronger healing or more resources to spare. At some level with power creep or general skill of the user/group and difficulty of content there is no longer any need for sustain or stats and thats the spot that Nord will be the only race out of all options that can give something to the group. Feels like opposite of balance.

Redguard
I dont think it should have gotten that big of sustain buffs, but overall I like how put in place it was (or more like other races were brough up). Only worry is that with this amount of sustain there is just some small tweak (of general sustain or weapon skills) that will just make it win again and we will be waiting again for years before its addressed.

Samsquanch

Stupid changes. They don’t follow the lore at all. A scrawny imperial has 5x as much health and stamina as an orc? WTH are y’all smoking?

Hunterka71

I gathered my courage and decided to speak on Bosmer changes. I do respect other players and their play styles, please respect mine and don't tell me the stealth detection change in Bosmer is not important- for me it is.
I chose this race as non-animal stealth race, it suits my playstyle and I don't care for combat numbers, sorry, so don't tell me speed is great for PVP
I tried it on PTS and I feel greatly annoyed now with the change, being a thief and all. I can't use all togreher night's silence with night terror and mother gaze - the only way it would resemble my play on live.

So I propose:
1. Leave Bosmer at least 2 meters of stealth detection reduce , it will still be much less than Khajiit.

2. @ZOS_Gilliam if you are stuck on those changes for reasons I can't see at this stage of game, please make a 2 piece set with 1 piece - x stam recovery, 2 pieces- stealth detection radius reduce - 2 or 3 m, jewelry preferable.
Such set would let me (and other like minded players) retain my pve casual playstyle and even enable "play as you wish" stealthy game for other races.

Either way , please do not ignore a segment of players who are the most likely buying all that fluff from store and who made race choices based on things other than min/maxing.

SkysOutThizeOut

Everyone has less health and less max stats. Not just one race. It’s okay because everyone is reduced.

Drako_Ei

Argonian got nerfed into the ground because of resourceful pasive, i would rather to have that passive removed, so we can get real balance, I wont be playing with the character i have been playing for years next patch, and that makes me really sad, and i refuse to change his race, even if it means not being always at the top, but i wasnt expecting it to become the wrost race, at this point rework argonian passives please, do something like you did with khajiits, or at least let the race be cosmetic except for the fun passive (bosmer, orcs, altmers and redguards will disagree)

mb10

I really like the way you went about Nords.

I feel like they have a good amount of passives to their race and is ingrained well with the lore. Cold and physical/spell resistence for example.
This is the same for Argonians as theyre great alchemists, healers and should be immune to disease. I kinda wish they were also immune to the poison status effect but that could be lore breaking, Im not sure?


Now I feel like Altmer, although they're powerful DPS wise dont have anything that specific to their race at all its just flat max mag, spell damage and the regen. There isnt anything unique about that so I feel like they should have something unique.

I like the way you've gone with Khajiit. Lore wise, Khajiit have very sharp claws so I thnik a bleed damage from attacks within 2 meters could be quite realisitc for khajiit and unique.

Wood elf movement speed is slightly OP imo, could be 2 seconds instead but 20% increase is fine imo. Perhaps wood elves should get into stealth slightly quicker than every other class?

Imperials are great warriors but also great mages (Abnur Tharn?), and atm I feel like Imperials are just a 2nd or even 3rd choice for stamina classes. They have a 15% for one of their passives to go off so 85% of the time they only have 2 passives so its quite unfair and as mentioned, limited to being 2nd,3rd choice for stam.

Breton got great balance changes imo

Orcs have been well balanced and appropriate to the lore. I think the max stat bonuses can be criticised but also can be praised as their sustain, damage and movement is great. So perhaps 500 is fine.

Redguards have general bonuses and a nice cost reduction which is cool. lore wise theyre best known for their endurance so i feel like redguard are in a good/interesting place.

MLGProPlayer

olsborg wrote: »

Altmer seems to be the clear choice for both dmg and sustain, since you need both.

They are actually not top in either category.

Khajiit is currently king of magicka DPS.

Breton is king of sustain and tied with Altmer for DPS (if not pulling slightly ahead).

Altmer get 572 magicka back every 6 seconds, which is the equivalent of 192 magicka recovery (or 192 magicka back every 2 seconds).

Assuming the average cost of a magicka skill is 3000 magicka, and you cast 1 skill every second, Breton are saving ~420 magicka every 2 seconds vs. the Altmer's 192. This is a huge difference and allows Breton to slot a spell damage enchant on their weapon vs. an absorb magicka.enchant. Ultimately, damage and sustain comes out very close when both races are geared out though. This is good balance.

The problem with Khajiit is that crit damage modifiers push their DPS higher than anyone else right now.

Alaya

Bosmer/Wood Elves:

Stealth detection isn't really useful in PvE and that detection isn't really enough in PvP either. It seems rather useless. I liked our stealth passive better. Everything else is fine although disease resistance is also lore friendly and we lost that.

Also thanks for giving stealthy players the ONLY option to play as a Khajiit and not any other race.

jediprime74

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So...for those of us who bought the Imperial upgrade specifically for the Imperial racial passives (I got mine on console launch) - do we get a refund for the upgrade?

Imperial has rarely, if ever, been BIS as a race. Second or third best? Sure, pretty consistently. These racial passive changes are gutting Imperials and I am not pleased with them at all.

I am a bit grumpy about this, my opinion may change over time, but right now I am not happy at all.

Yamenstein

jediprime74 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So...for those of us who bought the Imperial upgrade specifically for the Imperial racial passives (I got mine on console launch) - do we get a refund for the upgrade?

Imperial has rarely, if ever, been BIS as a race. Second or third best? Sure, pretty consistently. These racial passive changes are gutting Imperials and I am not pleased with them at all.

I am a bit grumpy about this, my opinion may change over time, but right now I am not happy at all.

Imperial passives have never been BiS. So you asking for a refund for that excuse makes no sense.

Jeez. People complain when it's both possible and not possible to pay to win.

Arseny

mb10 wrote: »

This is the same for Argonians as theyre great alchemists, healers and should be immune to disease. I kinda wish they were also immune to the poison status effect but that could be lore breaking, Im not sure?

They are immune to disease not because they are great alchemists, but because they live in swamps.
Btw their passives from the last 3 single player games:
Skyrim:
Skill and Modifier
Lockpicking +10 Light Armor +5 Alteration +5 Pickpocket +5 Restoration +5 Sneak +5
Special abilities
Histskin: Invoke the power of the Hist to recover health ten times faster for 60 seconds. Can only be used once per day.
Resist Disease: Your Argonian blood is 50% resistant to disease.
Waterbreathing: Your Argonian Lungs can breathe underwater.
Oblivion:
Skill and Modifier
Alchemy +5 Athletics +10 Blade +5 Hand-to-Hand +5 Illusion +5 Mysticism +5 Security +10
Special abilities
Resist Disease – 75%
Resist Poison – 100%
Water Breathing – can breathe underwater indefinitely
Disposition – +5 when speaking to other Argonians
Morrowind:
Skill and Modifier
Alchemy +5 Athletics +15 Illusion +5 Medium Armor +5 Mysticism +5 Spear +5 Unarmored +5
Spells
Waterbreathing for 120 seconds
Abilities
Immune to Poison – 100% Resistance to Poison
Resist Disease – 75% Resistance to Common Diseases

Vapirko

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Yeah it's not going to be game breaking if they keep health and stamina at 500 but I really do think 1k of each would make things a bit better. Fortunatley the 380 stamina return every 4 seconds will help with the stamina recovery as well. However, the 380 heal is such a waste IMO. won't do much in PvE and is completely useless in PvP with battle spirit cutting that heal into 140 every 4 seconds. I rather see that heal eliminated and buff the stamina return to 500-600.

I did a bit of dueling today on my Orc stamplar which I use a DW frontbar and one absorb Stam enchant for sustain. My stamina sustain sits at 1511 normally.

One thing I noticed is that sustain feels like it took a definite hit. I had to rely on heavy attacks a lot more. If nothing changes I’ll prob switch to 2H front bar with a full sustain enchant and make use of the 2H sustain boost on kill passive and go DW backbar and use rending slashes to keep the orc sustain ticking. Other than that everything felt pretty similar, though you’re absolutely right that the small amount of health return is entirely inconsequential. I would vote to remove that completely in favor of a bit more max Stam if not health and Stam, 1k would be amazing but even 750 might do the trick if the devs feel that 1k is too high.

IronWooshu

I posted this before, Nord may look good on paper but in actuality they aren't really that great outside of PVP and in PVP any race can do fine.

they need to make it 5 ultimate every 5 seconds when in combat (this will work for all ROLES - YES FREEDOM ZoS).... or just remove it entirely and give us weapon damage and stam sustain and allow us to compete Stam DPS because even with the ultimate passive and resists they don't look to be BiS tank and if they aren't BiS tank and weakest in terms of damage for magicka and stamina than Nord may actually be just as bad as they are on live.

There is a reason no one tests Nords and no one is talking about Nords because they are the least played race for how bad they've been on live and nothings really changed with the new passives when you play them on PTS, you just go.. oh ok and notice nothing different.

@ZOS_Gilliam

they look good on paper, that is it.

Kurat

Argonian nerf was needed but this is a bit too harsh. For what is this race intended to use now? There are better tank and healer options now and every other race has passives to increase dps. Why Argonian has to be the weakest dps race?
It only got 1k magica while all other races got 1.5-2k resource or wep/spell dmg buff or both. How is this balance? People say you still got potions but what good are they if I hit like a wet noodle.
I dont see any reason to use Argonians anymore other than for RP.
I thought all this racial rework was supposed bring more balance and make everyone more viable for different builds. I agree that this potion thing needed nerfing but people may wanna play Argonian not only as tanks. Give them at least 2k magica or spell dmg like other races. If people cant stand them potions then remove them completely and give some sustain other ways. Some cost reduction or fixed value.

IronWooshu

Kurat wrote: »

Argonian nerf was needed but this is a bit too harsh. For what is this race intended to use now? There are better tank and healer options now and every other race has passives to increase dps. Why Argonian has to be the weakest dps race?
It only got 1k magica while all other races got 1.5-2k resource or wep/spell dmg buff or both. How is this balance? People say you still got potions but what good are they if I hit like a wet noodle.
I dont see any reason to use Argonians anymore other than for RP.
I thought all this racial rework was supposed bring more balance and make everyone more viable for different builds. I agree that this potion thing needed nerfing but people may wanna play Argonian not only as tanks. Give them at least 2k magica or spell dmg like other races. If people cant stand them potions then remove them completely and give some sustain other ways. Some cost reduction or fixed value.

from my experience on PTS, Argonian doesn't feel any different from live, sure they don't heal as much from the potion passive but they will still be BiS tanks and the 3% magicka really didn't help you in damage as much as you think.

also from my understanding healing received is heals done from another player on you and doesn't count for your own heals to yourself, I believe to amplify heals on yourself you want healing done and healing taken, corect me if I am wrong here but playing as the Argonian I didn't feel like I had any less survival.