PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

Bloodystab

Arseny wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

I'd love to see weapon and spell damage instead of healing done on the Argonian passive, since weapon and spell damage affect healing done AND give Argonians a damage option.

^This is the best decision, it allows people who play Argonians, not to only be tanks or healers, but also to be competitive DD.
My main character is Argonian Stamina DD, and it is pretty hard to have a good DPS in any serious veteran content.

Just wait to see our Sustain with -1k Stamina from Potion that is already crap because You use 1st potion before actual PvE starts so you wait 45 sec for another use and 1h Enchantments will be nerfed so Stamina drain also.

I already have trouble on my Argonian Stamblade to keep up in Fights, after changes i'll gonna need to enchant rings to Regen and loss again more dmg.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Bloodystab wrote: »

Arseny wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

I'd love to see weapon and spell damage instead of healing done on the Argonian passive, since weapon and spell damage affect healing done AND give Argonians a damage option.

^This is the best decision, it allows people who play Argonians, not to only be tanks or healers, but also to be competitive DD.
My main character is Argonian Stamina DD, and it is pretty hard to have a good DPS in any serious veteran content.

Just wait to see our Sustain with -1k Stamina from Potion that is already crap because You use 1st potion before actual PvE starts so you wait 45 sec for another use and 1h Enchantments will be nerfed so Stamina drain also.

I already have trouble on my Argonian Stamblade to keep up in Fights, after changes i'll gonna need to enchant rings to Regen and loss again more dmg.

Sounds like you need to heavy attack more.

Bloodystab

Sounds like few more "tweaks like this" and i can fully replace Light attacks in rotation by Heavy attacks.

Zer0oo

Overall the changes look quite good. For me, there is no clear winner for the races that you really have to be neither stamina nor mag.

Some minor concerns:

Altmer

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time

The restriction on class skills is quite harsh especial on mag sorcs and stam dds in general since they do not have a class skill as spamable.
theoretical this skill gives but this regen does not get buffed by any %:
575/6=95.8 mag/s~192 reg

more realistic is 7-8 sec till you activate this passive:
575/7=82.1mag/sec~164 reg
575/8=71.9 mag/sec~142 reg
For stam it is even worse: stam sorc for example uses hurrican every 10 sec -> ~100 stam reg
The same goes for tanking since you do not really use class skills. armor buff every 20 sec -> 50 stam reg

It would be better if the cooldown and they stats would be increased to 10 sec.(Could also reduce lag ^^)
It would be kinda cool if altmer would be ultimate instead of stam. For example: gain 1000 mag and 4 ulti when you use a class skill this can happen every 10 sec. This would be nice for both stam, mag and tanking. Would be more unque and would not look so strange as with the random stam return when you max pool is bigger...



Argonian
I am fine with these changes. the 1k hp looks kinda low

Wood Elf

Resist Affliction: Gain 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

They are no longer immune to desease status effect which is quite a big nerf for pvp
The dodge roll bonuse is a nice idea but 20% is nothing if snared and quite fast when stacked with major expedition if not snared.

Breton
They look overall quite nice. By far best mag sustain and with that sustain they could even beat altmer damage wise. It will be really strong in pvp

Dark Elf
This one is kinda wierd. Raw damage wise it will be the best stam race and second best for mag. (if there would not be so sustain problems) The overall stats are ok but dunmer was by far the strongest damage race for mag since the last racial changes so there will be a lot of QQ.

Imperial
This class feels quite underwhelming stat wise and they just feel nothing special.

Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

This passive is quite rng based and could potential be to strong in some extrem aoe situations but underwhelming at best in others

Khajiit
At first the stats on this race look low but the crit is quite hudge in pve (stam and mag). Maybe the kitty race will be best mag dps race???(Please NO) On the other side crit chance is not the best stat for pvp

Nord
looks really intressting and maybe the bis tanking race now

Orc
Looks ok. I hope the sustain passive triggers from dots if not see altmer why i could be quite weak.

Redguard
Is still the Number 1 stam sustain race. They direct damage condition is not as restricted as the others. Damage wise it is not the best anymore but with the sustain they will probably out dps the others like breton.

Aluneth

One simple word to describe the Imperial racial passives.

Boring

cazlonb16_ESO

Overperformance of Argonians on live stems from the combination of the potion passive with potion cooldown cheesing. There are two obvious ways to go about this:

1. Prevent potion cooldown cheesing alltogether or specifically for the Argonian passive by adding a cooldown to the passive or something
2. Replace the passive with something else

What you should absolutely not do is "balance" the race around said combination of the passive and cooldown cheesing. Yet it looks to me like that is exactly the approach taken here, whacking everyone not cheesing into the ground with the big ole nurfhammer.

DarkerDreams

I'll just throw in one more voice saying to please remove the worthless stealth detection passive from bosmers and give us something we can actually use. Even if your not giving us the decreased stealth radius or increased damage like before, at least make it something that is actually useful instead of the utterly useless detection you gave them.

Ragnaroek93

WIZZARD2K wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

While I like the changes to wood elves overall, I am very disappointed to see the removal of the stealth passive and addition of a stealth detection passive.

1.) Stealthiness has been part of wood elf lore in the elder scrolls series. It was a primary reason that I play the race.

2.) the developer notes for this change suggest that stealth gameplay is niche, but the replacement ability - stealth detection - is considerably more niche and will see little use in game.

Please revert this change or rethink the changes to stealth passives.

100% second this. Stealthy wood elf is my favorite "fun" thing to do around Tamriel. I have zero desire for pvp passives. Please stop ruining PVE for the sake of PVP. Detection and Roll Dodge? Roll Dodge is unreliable in PVE content, since you can't count on the game considering you out of danger (I've tried to roll out of red, no more!).
Unless you're adding some stealth npcs around Tamriel, requiring me to PVP to make use of my replacement ability seems unfair.

Roll Dodge just works fine for me in PvE and this passive isn't useless, it's actually very strong in content like vMSA too (and it'll be very helpful when another solo trial gets released).

susmitds

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown#latest

DPS of every race DD tested.

SodanTok

Dracane wrote: »

The magicka loss from Gift of Magnus was bigger than expected. We had calculated that 1500 or so will be lost. I personally have really lost 2k though. Another proof, math isn't always reliable here.

All my elemental damage has dropped by a 100 on tooltips. The added spell damage to elemental talent can't compensate for this loss. While all of this isn't the end of the world, being weakened again isn't a good feeling.

@Dracane Your post made me check it on PTS and yeah. Math is reliable. For some reasons, I hope it is bug, ZoS decided that the racial stat bonuses arent affected by CP at all.

It doesnt make sense why would they go with this and add another confusing thing to account for, so I am almost settling on it being bug.

Derra

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The magicka loss from Gift of Magnus was bigger than expected. We had calculated that 1500 or so will be lost. I personally have really lost 2k though. Another proof, math isn't always reliable here.

All my elemental damage has dropped by a 100 on tooltips. The added spell damage to elemental talent can't compensate for this loss. While all of this isn't the end of the world, being weakened again isn't a good feeling.

@Dracane Your post made me check it on PTS and yeah. Math is reliable. For some reasons, I hope it is bug, ZoS decided that the racial stat bonuses arent affected by CP at all.

It doesnt make sense why would they go with this and add another confusing thing to account for, so I am almost settling on it being bug.

It´s sadly not a bug as it´s mentioned in an official post to work that way by Gilliam.

MLGProPlayer

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@MLGProPlayer , I'm looking at the parses - not sure how to explain the difference on the metrics. Fact is, altmer has 200 regen to spare on those particular parses, not sure why and not sure if it's tradable for damage. But there's that.

I think you're looking at the wrong parse, because it's:

Altmer = 1664
Khajiit;l = 1575

Vaneur

I don't understand why they said that they just want to let every race fit better for every role and then make imperials only viable for PVE tanks (and they also got a passive which is pure rng friendly) the imperial race is one of my favourites (I switched long ago mi main to redguard cuz his pasives perform better but i'd like to play imperial again), so... what I suggest:

Imperial

Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
Tough: Gain 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000. It's ok
Conditioning: Gain 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000. it's ok
Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%. → When you deal Direct Damage, you are healed for 1750. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. Reduces all your cost by 5%.

Not more rng at racial passives, I think these changes would let imperials be more versatile and playable as a DPS aswell (not just as a tank)

SodanTok

Derra wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

The magicka loss from Gift of Magnus was bigger than expected. We had calculated that 1500 or so will be lost. I personally have really lost 2k though. Another proof, math isn't always reliable here.

All my elemental damage has dropped by a 100 on tooltips. The added spell damage to elemental talent can't compensate for this loss. While all of this isn't the end of the world, being weakened again isn't a good feeling.

@Dracane Your post made me check it on PTS and yeah. Math is reliable. For some reasons, I hope it is bug, ZoS decided that the racial stat bonuses arent affected by CP at all.

It doesnt make sense why would they go with this and add another confusing thing to account for, so I am almost settling on it being bug.

It´s sadly not a bug as it´s mentioned in an official post to work that way by Gilliam.

Must have missed that. Thats quite... not great solution in my opinion as the 20% CP buff for stats is one of the reasons weapon/spell damage isnt that much overperforming stats.

Toc de Malsvi

Roll dodge speed bonus on Bosmer is meaningless when snared,even with bow, and very strong when not snared. Taking into account snare removal tools short duration, and resource cost of snare removal+ dodgeroll, this should be relatively balanced.

RaddlemanNumber7

I just did some benchmarking for my Bosmer bow ganker. So, this is just buffed Lethal Arrows to the back of the head from long range, in crouched stealth for the first shot, and from cloak for subsequent shots. Same build, same buffs, same situation, in the same place, in the same home, on the same target dummy. Numbers are exclusive of poison status and enchantment procs.

On Live he is getting 35180 for his first shot and 34002 for subsequent shots.

On PTS as a Bosmer he's getting 33050 first shot and 31941 for subsequent shots.

On PTS as a Dunmer he gets 34520 first shot and 33293 for subsequent shots.

This is a pretty cruel nerf for my Bosmer character.

It also shows that Bosmer are no longer the best archers in Tamriel. The numbers make it plain - if you want to excel at hunting with a bow in stealth you should be a Dunmer. So much for the Dev's objective of retaining and enhancing the unique feeling and flavour each race provides, and remaining faithful to established lore.

ezio45

Azyle1 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Only issue i have with the new racials are darkelf and khajiit

Darkelf is just highelf or redguard with less sustain and resources. I feel like upping darkelfs resources pools would make it a good trade off for stam builds that need more mag or mag builds that need more stam. As of right now though i dont think the trade off is worth it.

Khajiit, I like it. It is a good option for high crit playstyles, both mag or stam. really need to up the regen tho

@ezio45

Khajiit still seem strong for stam dps?

I mean yes but looking at all the other options now i think the regen is really lacking compared to others. Its not that is weak, darkelf isnt really weak either. Its just that right now what they offer isnt enough to get people to pick them over others

like khajiit is nice and the crit might be a cool thing to build with. Something like going higher on crit and lower on based damage but when im having to give up on regen too then I start looking at highelf or redguard and thinking about how i can build crit up in other ways like sets.

Zer0oo

Please make it more clear that redguard passive also affects weapon ultis.

John_Falstaff

@Toc de Malsvi, pretty sure I'm looking at the right ones. See the links to screenshots below the video:

Khajiit: 1575 magicka/s regen, 1876 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 301 magicka/s (602 regen).
Altmer: 1664 magicka/s regen, 1819 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 155 magicka/s (310 regen).

That's a hefty difference. For those particular parses, altmer has 292 regen to spare. Make what you want of it.

Toc de Malsvi

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi, pretty sure I'm looking at the right ones. See the links to screenshots below the video:

Khajiit: 1575 magicka/s regen, 1876 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 301 magicka/s (602 regen).
Altmer: 1664 magicka/s regen, 1819 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 155 magicka/s (310 regen).

That's a hefty difference. For those particular parses, altmer has 292 regen to spare. Make what you want of it.

@John_Falstaff
?

John_Falstaff

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi, pretty sure I'm looking at the right ones. See the links to screenshots below the video:

Khajiit: 1575 magicka/s regen, 1876 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 301 magicka/s (602 regen).
Altmer: 1664 magicka/s regen, 1819 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 155 magicka/s (310 regen).

That's a hefty difference. For those particular parses, altmer has 292 regen to spare. Make what you want of it.

@John_Falstaff
?

Check yourself? Those are what I mean:

Khajiit Parse (60.5k-62k) -- https://i.imgur.com/RQdMGnX.png
High Elf Parse (58k-60.5k)-- https://i.imgur.com/0R7woGY.png

And don't forget that numbers are per second, not in terms of regen. Multiply by two to get the regen (which is per 2 seconds).

Toc de Malsvi

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi, pretty sure I'm looking at the right ones. See the links to screenshots below the video:

Khajiit: 1575 magicka/s regen, 1876 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 301 magicka/s (602 regen).
Altmer: 1664 magicka/s regen, 1819 magicka/s drain -> deficit of 155 magicka/s (310 regen).

That's a hefty difference. For those particular parses, altmer has 292 regen to spare. Make what you want of it.

@John_Falstaff
?

Check yourself? Those are what I mean:

Khajiit Parse (60.5k-62k) -- https://i.imgur.com/RQdMGnX.png
High Elf Parse (58k-60.5k)-- https://i.imgur.com/0R7woGY.png

And don't forget that numbers are per second, not in terms of regen. Multiply by two to get the regen (which is per 2 seconds).

@John_Falstaff

Check who you have been going back and forth with.

Toc de Malsvi

Sometimes when you reply too fast you can tag the wrong people.

John_Falstaff

@Toc de Malsvi , oh - right. ^^ Sorry; I've been scrolling up and down while replying and clicked the wrong name - sorry about that. ^^

The above was meant for @MLGProPlayer

NobleX35

The racial changes for Imperial are highly underwhelming and don’t make a lot of sense with the theme of the overall balance changes. The combat team wanted to increase player options and open up more avenues, but then add in a percentage cost reduction to block and bash which is mostly only useful for tanking... This limits player options and should be reevaluated. I think a lot of great suggestions have been brought up for improving the Red Diamond passive and not limiting Imperials to just tanking rolls.

Imperials need a better theme than just “discount tanks.” One option could be to give them 500-1000 Max Magicka and make their theme the “Max Stat” race, which could provide many unique hybrid options and open up build diversity options for stamina classes.

Vaneur wrote: »

Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%. → When you deal Direct Damage, you are healed for 1750. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. Reduces all your cost by 5%.

Alternatively, this sounds very interesting as well because it provides imperials with some sustain options and could be interesting if it also affects ultimate costs.

ankeor wrote: »

Imperial

Red Diamond: When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Break Free by 10%

I think this option also sounds intriguing, although could run into the same problem as the block cost reduction as being too situational.

olsborg

Altmer seems to be the clear choice for both dmg and sustain, since you need both.

Kuramas9tails

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Khajit : remove health recovery bonus and increase stam & mag recovery to 150

^^^^^ YES PLEASE

John_Falstaff

I second converting khajiit health recovery into stamina and magicka sustain. Raid-buffed (and unsustainable) parses already are a good hint that khajiits will have to trade their parity in damage for sustain when it comes to anything remotely real. And flat health recovery is one most useless passive ever.

tunepunk

Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

I'm curious if this applies to Werewolf attacks, as they don't count as weapon attacks i suppose?

Olupajmibanan

Nord ultigen should be changed to something like 2 ultimate every 4 seconds (instead of 5 ultimate every 10 seconds). It is clear that this race is meant for tanks and this way we would limit it's usage for healers. Healers do not take damage so consinsently as tanks do, but they surely get some damage once per 10 seconds. It would also create nice decisive synergy.

Imperial block cost reduction should be flat value (let's say 250) instead of %, and it should be additive with shield-play enchantment. Otherwise, it's not worth even mentioning.