ZOS: Can this stupid PUG "trick" get a fix?

Jameliel

Noone wants to take 30 minutes plus running Bloodroot Forge with lowbies who basically get carried. Have already ran all the dungeons 100 times +. Please let us run a quick dungeon, collect box and be done with it. There will be plenty of times you can spend however much time you want on running long, drawn out dungeons.

Mureel

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

Why though?

because you wanna USE event to get carried by everyone to all sorts of things you haven't done yet?

Mureel

Reverb wrote: »

Since people are spending like 45 min in a loop of "ready check; forming group; someone declined the invite, you have been placed at the front of the queue" I don't blame them one bit for wanting to cheese through a fast instance.

LOL 45 mins. Pics or it didn't happen.

That kinda hyperbole is why we get a 6 hour maint on a saturday.

Mureel

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

While that 'stupid PUG trick' is being 'fixed', perhaps a couple other fixes should be in order as well:

Option in random for: Any dungeon / Any non-DLC dungeon.
Option in all LFG for: Any four will do / Classic triad (one tank, one healer, two dps).

I don't use the random aspect of the dungeon finder at all since I boycott DLC dungeons. I'm not complaining about them, simply judge them as not fun and I'm simply not about to go into any dungeon unless I know exactly which one it is and I know I'm prepared for it.

I also only pug on my healer and sometimes my tank so would always opt for a classic triad group. But I know there are many dps who would rather have a faster queue than the long ones they have now and choice might help some and hopefully decrease the number of fake tank/heals inflicted on dps who follow the rules and want a classic group.

HOW are they NOT FUN? We find them plenty fun. Or you mean you cannot get a group to do them?

D0PAMINE

Mureel wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

While that 'stupid PUG trick' is being 'fixed', perhaps a couple other fixes should be in order as well:

Option in random for: Any dungeon / Any non-DLC dungeon.
Option in all LFG for: Any four will do / Classic triad (one tank, one healer, two dps).

I don't use the random aspect of the dungeon finder at all since I boycott DLC dungeons. I'm not complaining about them, simply judge them as not fun and I'm simply not about to go into any dungeon unless I know exactly which one it is and I know I'm prepared for it.

I also only pug on my healer and sometimes my tank so would always opt for a classic triad group. But I know there are many dps who would rather have a faster queue than the long ones they have now and choice might help some and hopefully decrease the number of fake tank/heals inflicted on dps who follow the rules and want a classic group.

HOW are they NOT FUN? We find them plenty fun. Or you mean you cannot get a group to do them?

They're just repetative. The new ones are fun for a while but all the old ones have been done to death.

Auggy

Can't we let people play how they want? If you don't like something then don't do it.

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

Oh, you're one of those type of people.

Karmanorway

No. Im glad the Group finder Works like that. When the finder actually starts working (1 am) i want to do the daily With all my 11 characters. Not being stuck on the first one in scalecaller peak for 5 hrs because pugz wont listen to mechanics.. i have better things to do with my life lol

AlnilamE

yodased wrote: »

The easiest fix is to not allow random queues to intersect with specific dungeon queues.

If you have a specific dungeon you want to do, queue for that dungeon and wait for 3 more people who want to do that specific dungeon are found.

Queuing solo into specific dungeon and then getting mad when people don't want to do your choice is absurd. Everyone is saying that you take the risk of, well i am not sure what, but a risk when you queue for a random.

I can assure you that if people are banned for this, the workaround will be swift and you simply will not be able to do the dungeon you want to without a premade group.

It goes both ways, random should expect random players and dungeons and those that queue for specific dungeons should no be included in the pool of random player/dungeon combos.

You are being disingenuous if you say that queuing for a specific dungeon is the same as queuing for a random

But the whole point of the Random queue is to backfill groups for people who are queuing for a specific dungeon. The only exception is when you pre-make your random group. Otherwise, it's pretty safe to assume that at least one person there queued for the dungeon you ended up in.

So no, splitting the Random queue is not the answer. You might as well just eliminate the random queue and the reward for it.

weedgenius wrote: »

Why do you care? Like, really... how does this negatively impact your personal experience?

The person queued for a dungeon they wanted to complete and the group bailed on him but still got the reward for "helping"?

AlnilamE

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Run the dungeons on 10 characters a day for the length of the event and then tell me how much fun they are. I want to get them done as quickly as possible. I don't find them fun anymore, I want the event tickets and the loot. I've been running these dungeons for the last 4 years...

Form a group of like-minded players in zone and have at it.

essi2

I didn't know this was a thing until someone did it yesterday, should probably be classified as an exploit.

peacenote

Lunachik wrote: »

I think its a ban worthy exploit to hop out of dungeon , and I while I'm not surprised its happening, I am disappointed. I left 2 groups today because someone decided to leave and to do Fungal Grotto once we were inside, one person went w/them in each case. The other person and I got a time penalty because we left the group, but the exploiters just went on to get their reward? Yeah, not a great system. I know there are always ppl looking for the easiest way to get things, but putting other ppl in this position is poor treatment of other gamers. I also know that players are reporting folks who are doing it. I guess ZoS will have to decide if it's ban worthy or not.

However, I do agree that not having an option to disable the DLC dungeons for random dailies is an issue. I would like to see an option for ESO plus players/dlc owners to turn that content off for their daily. Yes, I pay for that content and enjoy it, but I think it would be better for everyone, if we had the choice to turn it off for all queue types, rather than being required to play it.

I hope a solution can be worked out. Thank ZoS folks for all your hard work.

Really good post. So I'm quoting it.

I think the gap in our community between people who learn the DLC dungeons and new folks who don't know better and are likely to quit because they are popped in a DLC dungeon and have a bad experience is wide enough that something should be done. My vote would be to add some more tiers to the random dungeon rewards. Top tier is ALL vet dungeons, including DLC, and you can't queue for it and get the reward if you aren't a subscriber and/or eligible to play all possible content. If there is an extra reward I think enough people will still participate. Next tier is DLC only. Then non-DLC. And then, normals. I see no reason to split the normal queue out.

From personal experience, sometimes I will go into a random vet completely ready and willing to do anything that pops up. I've got time. Sometimes, I queue with fingers crossed and will groan inside if I get a DLC. When I'm not in the mood or short on time, I'd like to exclude them.

There are always people that will use exploits. This seems like a case, though, where we are better off addressing root cause - WHY are so many people using it - rather than just patching it out but ignoring the current community pain point. Some folks seem like they are just trying to reduce time spent (which is an exploit) but some seem like they are using it to enjoy the game more by doing dungeons they like. I'd like to see that happen without the side effect of the time penalty or group disagreement that has been described.

LeagueTroll

Jolipinator wrote: »

I asked a group in Volenfell to go to Fungal Grotto today and they ignored me. They preferred to stand outside the various doors for 10 minutes because we were inexplicably still in combat.

If you want to play long dungeons during this event find 3 other people who feel the same way. Most players don't have a lot of time to play.

exactly

AlnilamE

peacenote wrote: »

Lunachik wrote: »

I think its a ban worthy exploit to hop out of dungeon , and I while I'm not surprised its happening, I am disappointed. I left 2 groups today because someone decided to leave and to do Fungal Grotto once we were inside, one person went w/them in each case. The other person and I got a time penalty because we left the group, but the exploiters just went on to get their reward? Yeah, not a great system. I know there are always ppl looking for the easiest way to get things, but putting other ppl in this position is poor treatment of other gamers. I also know that players are reporting folks who are doing it. I guess ZoS will have to decide if it's ban worthy or not.

However, I do agree that not having an option to disable the DLC dungeons for random dailies is an issue. I would like to see an option for ESO plus players/dlc owners to turn that content off for their daily. Yes, I pay for that content and enjoy it, but I think it would be better for everyone, if we had the choice to turn it off for all queue types, rather than being required to play it.

I hope a solution can be worked out. Thank ZoS folks for all your hard work.

Really good post. So I'm quoting it.

I think the gap in our community between people who learn the DLC dungeons and new folks who don't know better and are likely to quit because they are popped in a DLC dungeon and have a bad experience is wide enough that something should be done. My vote would be to add some more tiers to the random dungeon rewards. Top tier is ALL vet dungeons, including DLC, and you can't queue for it and get the reward if you aren't a subscriber and/or eligible to play all possible content. If there is an extra reward I think enough people will still participate. Next tier is DLC only. Then non-DLC. And then, normals. I see no reason to split the normal queue out.

From personal experience, sometimes I will go into a random vet completely ready and willing to do anything that pops up. I've got time. Sometimes, I queue with fingers crossed and will groan inside if I get a DLC. When I'm not in the mood or short on time, I'd like to exclude them.

There are always people that will use exploits. This seems like a case, though, where we are better off addressing root cause - WHY are so many people using it - rather than just patching it out but ignoring the current community pain point. Some folks seem like they are just trying to reduce time spent (which is an exploit) but some seem like they are using it to enjoy the game more by doing dungeons they like. I'd like to see that happen without the side effect of the time penalty or group disagreement that has been described.

Just allow people to exclude the DLC and get the blue reward instead. And people who don't have the DLC to begin with get only blue rewards.

I personally go into a random with open eyes, knowing I'm just as likely to get Bloodrot Forge as Spindleclutch (for some reason I rarely get the in-between dungeons, it's either very low ones or DLCs). And I'm fine with that.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This is just a video game. The '"rules" therefore, are arbitrary. Run a dungeon, get a stupid prize. Does it really matter whether its a random dungeon? Do a thing, get a shiny box. It's not like people found a way to get the box without doing a dungeon.

It always amuses me when you get these self-appointed morality warriors fighting over an arbitrary distinction like it was the word of god.

"BUT GUIZE ZOSE INTENDED IT THAT WAYYYYY!!!!!"

Yeah, the same company that intends us to only have 200 transmute stones in storage so our inventory is filled, the same company that charges 5k to change an outfit. This game is designed to take as much of your time as possible, so you can find ANY way to steal some of your precious time back, then you are a saint, not a sinner.

To those that condemn you, well there will always be moral um... no fun police, telling you not to do something that bothers them on a philosophical level (but doesn't really affect them), and then complaining to get it ruined for everyone. You meet them in first grade ratting you out to the teacher for taking an extra cookie then they follow you through college, employment, politics etc. There will always be this type of person. Best to ignore their squeals.

yodased

Where does it say that random is designed to fill specific criteria for a player queuing a specific dungeon?

I get that is a logical argument for one function of the random, but to say that it exists solely to fill groups of people that want a specific dungeon is crazy.

So you get to not do a random dungeon and get a random group while everyone else is queued for a random dungeon and a random group.

Why are you special? What makes your choice to do a particular dungeon circumvent the fact that you are not actually getting randomness?

You should be banned for exploiting the random dungeon finder.

Wildberryjack

Is it really that big of a deal that most want to just get it done fast for their tickets? I mean pick your battles, this isn't one to bother with.

xeNNNNN

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

you know there are people who have done these dungeons a million times and just want to get it over with right? doing the long as heck DLC dungeons even on normal is still tedious.

I am not even sure what the argument here is, everyone can do it....so nobody can really moan about an unfair advantage...plenty of people get what they want and of or not people have done all the dungeons anyway and are going to do them at some point either way.

If you're going to cite solo players thats their fault not the communities, this is an MMO. You dont have a guild then join one plenty are always recruiting.

MilwaukeeScott

Exploiting is bad, mkay

carlos424

When the only dungeon ques that seem to work are vet dlc dungeons and you get ported in with a few cp 300’s, then ya, you might want to port to an easier dungeon option, unless you want to spend 6 hours trying to get through Vet March of Sacrifices. Btw, The first day I spent a couple hours getting through Vet Bloodroot with a pug, so I think I paid my penance.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Dungeon queues are still terrible post patch.

ZOS should just change the event to "Run any dungeon, kill last boss, get a box" That way people could group up and just direct travel to the dungeon without group finder. Would solve both problems.

max_only

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

Yeah I’m not carrying random people through Scalecaller.

If everyone in the group agrees I don’t see the problem.

Zacuel

It's like when Squidward makes a point just for everyone in Bikini Bottom to do the exact opposite.

Morale is: Don't be a Squidward.

mimicks

Lol the group I run with have been doing this. When youve got 14 toons all doing their dailies via 5 minute FG1 runs, grinding this event suddenly becomes a lot more bearable . Not to mention there's a barely functioning Dungeon Finder thrown into the mix.

I literally don't see the harm in this unless a teammate in a pug is berating other teammates who dont wanna for whatever reason -- some people can need quests, skillpoints, undaunted rep and it's understandable.

Kooky_Koala

I was in a party that did that when we got a Dragonbones dungeon. Given the problems with dungeon finder and today's 5 hour maintenance, followed by not being able to log in to the EU server, why should we worry about this? Various players will want to do dungeons on several characters and they spend lots of time not being able to get into a random normal dungeon, or indeed the server.

When the game and servers are made of cheese, I don't really object to people cheesing it.

yodased

I just had to solo the last boss in fang lair, what a great event

biovitalb16_ESO

Out of all the problems in this game you choose to complain about this?l Please quit.

sevomd69

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I didn't know that was a thing. Sounds awesome. Maybe I'll start doing that.

Oh, you're one of those type of people.

Can say the same about you as well...

SickDuck

Yes, please fix this so we need to ask someone to join with his lvl 10 alt to achieve the same thing. Cheating without an effort makes me sick!

(Or maybe rethink the whole "random" dungeon concept and come up with something that rewards you inline with the effort? Guess that would be too much to ask...)

Coatmagic

Reading through this am seeing a disturbing number of 'only people that can complete any and every dungeon in the game should get any rewards for this event' sentiments. That kind of attitude is why I stay away from any PUG content in this game.

As for people just randomly porting out to wherever they want to be, that is just plain rude, and they should have made a group and qued for what they wanted to do.

AFAICT, from looking the GF over, you can actually select what dungeon you want to que for, so how you decided going and doing the one you want is an exploit is beyond me.

Again, people queing for random then porting out of PUGs should be sorted if possible because kicking them wastes everyone's time.

Be respectful folks!

VaranisArano

Coatmagic wrote: »

Reading through this am seeing a disturbing number of 'only people that can complete any and every dungeon in the game should get any rewards for this event' sentiments. That kind of attitude is why I stay away from any PUG content in this game.

As for people just randomly porting out to wherever they want to be, that is just plain rude, and they should have made a group and qued for what they wanted to do.

AFAICT, from looking the GF over, you can actually select what dungeon you want to que for, so how you decided going and doing the one you want is an exploit is beyond me.

Again, people queing for random then porting out of PUGs should be sorted if possible because kicking them wastes everyone's time.

Be respectful folks!

You can use the groupfinder to select the dungeon you want - however, doing so does not grant the Daily Random Dungeon rewards and exp, unless you are using the exploit mentioned here.