ZOS: Can this stupid PUG "trick" get a fix?

ZeroXFF

I've never seen anyone in actual PUGs use this trick, I did do it with premades when we went for pledges. However I do agree that at the very least it's a bug, and technically shouldn't happen.

With that said, the difficulty difference between FG1 and vFH is insane. I've been saying for a long time that there should be a tiered system for dungeons. Not only will it allow people to be able to queue for the kind of content that they have time and the skills for, but it will also give people a sense of progression when each tier has dungeons of comparable difficulty in it, and people know what tier they are or are not qualified for.

I'd also go further than DLC/non-DLC, because even though it has been a trend that DLC dungeons are harder, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case in the future, and comparing vFG1 to vCoA2 or vWGT to vFH isn't appropriate either. There is a big difference in difficulty and/or time requirement between all 4 of these, and the tier system should reflect that.

Also having an undaunted arena with scores for the performance of a specific role could help people figure out what dungeons they should or should not go to. I explained what I have in mind in a different thread with a different context, if you're interested, but that would solve the problem of people dropping out of dungeons too, because they would be more confident in the group's skills.

firedrgn

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh.... I think y'all are missing why ZOS doesn't put in a toggle for "DLC dungeons OFF".

Because no one would ever run them except the "elite".... So how many is that per day? 20k toons out of 2M?

Not sure i have pugged brf rom fl. And hopfully others.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

There's purely 2 sides to this. So you queue a random normal and get Mazz or ICP. Yes a semi decent group is going to have the "that was a boss?" reaction and annihilate all in the path, but those dungeons take time simply because of the length of them.

In the mean time a group of 4 can queue a random, port to FG1 and have a 4 minute run, swap to alts and repeat, get what the event gives and then be skipping on their merry way back to Cyrodiil, or Blackrose Progression, skin runs, BG's, Skyshards or any other number of activities that they want or need to be doing.

You dangle those 2 options in front of people and many will take the path that gets them to what they want to do faster.

AlnilamE

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh.... I think y'all are missing why ZOS doesn't put in a toggle for "DLC dungeons OFF".

Because no one would ever run them except the "elite".... So how many is that per day? 20k toons out of 2M?

If they make you get blue rewards if you exclude DLC, they can go right ahead.

Jaraal wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh.... I think y'all are missing why ZOS doesn't put in a toggle for "DLC dungeons OFF".

Because no one would ever run them except the "elite".... So how many is that per day? 20k toons out of 2M?

But the toggle would enable folks with low level characters or alts the opportunity to do easier content, rather than not doing any Undaunted at all for fear of failing at the harder dungeons, or even worse, slowing down the "elite" folks who actually want seasoned vets to make their DLC experience better. Not to mention, the servers would run a lot smoother with the majority of folks running less computationally intensive old world content, rather than the newer DLC graphics.

This isn't really a problem 51 weeks out of the year, when you can check boxes and do your preferred dungeons. But somebody thought it would be a good idea to have an event where easy and hard gives out the same rewards. Is anybody actually surprised that folks want to do the minimum required? Especially when it's a nightmare to even do the event successfully.

Low level characters are limited to lower tier dungeons. You are not going to get a DLC dungeon in the group finder until you hit 45.

If you don't like the dungeon you got, you can ask people if they want to port. If everyone agrees (ie, everyone is from the random queue), then go right ahead. But if people in the group actually wanted to complete the dungeon you queued up for, then you should leave group and requeue if you don't want to do that dungeon.

supaskrub

MasterSpatula wrote: »

People want the rewards without taking the risk they’re being rewarded for. Disappointing.

Do you actually understand the fact that doing fg1, missing out bosses and getting done in record time gives the same event rewards from the same event loot table as trudging your way through CoS, ICP, Scalecaller etc so why take “the risk” when there’s a way easier and quicker option?.

Aurielle

Oh my god. Why is this an issue, OP? If I’m queueing for a random dungeon during this event and get normal WGT, and the (inevitably low CP) group does not want to port to FG1, I’ll simply drop group and move on to the next character. I’m not going to carry people through DLC dungeons when I’m trying to complete the daily normal ASAP.

Anyway, this is a bit of a moot point for me, as my work schedule has made it difficult for me to play these past few days. I absolutely see where people are coming from, though, by wanting to port to a quick dungeon if they get a long dungeon or a DLC dungeon. Most of us have run these dungeons literally hundreds of times and just want quick event rewards.

KingMagaw

Well the other 3 gimps can do there dungeon while i solo FG1 faster than them

Trinity_Is_My_Name

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

Yes, it needs to be fixed. One day...one day.....

Of course others are going to defend it. They are the ones doing it over and over. My last two randoms were Moonhunter Keep and Bloodroot Forge. Both PUGS completed them. Lot of fun. I'm in no hurry to rush through a bunch of toons to get the gold boxes.

ZOS, yes, fix this!

0lbertikus

Hopefully soon we get an offiffical statement by ZOS whether this is considered an exploit or not. More and more ppl start asking to port into FG1 after queuing for random dungeon. I dont wanna make use of exploits so I just left my current PUG cause they decided to switch from Arx to FG1.

POps75p

I guess that some people are "Holy than Though"

Bekkael

I hated it, but I had to use that trick yesterday to be able to finish, as I only started trying to do dungeons just before this event. Can’t remember what dungeon it was, but right after we landed in it and started fighting, the tank asked if we were on vet, as even the trash mobs took time to kill. After the first boss (that took about 7-10 minutes to kill, he/she typed that he/she had to go and make dinner. 🙄 I mean, why que if you have no time to actually run the dungeon? Anyway, that left me with two CP 170’s, a damager who didn’t have much damage, and a fairly decent healer. I’m CP 540ish, and I do okay, but I can’t completely carry others through tough content alone. It was obvious we weren’t going to handle the tough dungeon (which I had never done and had no clue what to expect). I was the only one with a mic, and asked if they wanted to do a quick, easy dungeon to get their tickets and they typed yes into the chat and told me I was leader. 😬 Usually, I prefer to follow.

Anyway, FG1 was one of the few dungeons I had already randomly landed in once or twice, so I knew I would be alright if I had to solo parts, which I did end up having to do.

So yeah, screw hard DLC dungeons with mixed bag randoms, including ones who bail straight off. I’m new to the dungeon thing and just not practiced enough yet to carry through hard dungeons or I definitely would. Not everyone is trying to cheat the system, some of us are just trying to survive and get the event done. ☹️

Amiliana

I find it a bit amusing that people have not reacted to this until it is part of this event.

If you get a tough dungeon in random vet/normal you have been able to port to a different dungeon for a long time, it did NOT start with this event.

The fact that you get rewards for completing your choice of dungeon is also not new. It was not that far back that we were constantly ported into dungeons that had not been reset, and still got the rewards when we ported and finished a different one.

If ZOS were considering this as an important exploit, they would have fixed it with the group finder patch they had the other day.

Junkriid

If you think teleporting to a different dungeon is bug exploit, what about animation cancelling? It should be considered as bug exploit because you are supposed to wait until every skill you cast has ended the animation, right? No, it has nosense, until Zos says it actually is bug exploit or, like someone say "hack using".. porting to another dungeon.. And like many people already said, I don't want to run a 2+ hours dungeon with players lvl 15, 21 and so on, because of many reasons:
1) these days the dungeon finder is really bugged, we thought they fixed it but we still get "unable to queue at this time", "someone has declined" and long queues so sometimes, it already takes 10/15 minutes just to get in a dungeon;
2) after 4/5 years, it's hard to find fungal grotto 2, vaults of madnes and other long dungeons, fun to play and it takes way too much time to complete if you're in party with low level players;
3)as I said, unless Zos reveals to us that this is bug abusing or anything else, I will gladly go to fungal grotto 1 if my team agree, because not everyone have 24 hours a day they can spend playing and I think that if someone has a couple of available hours, there should be a way to do the event without being forced to stay hours and hours doing the same dungeons you've been doing for 4 years.

If you're not ok with the fg1 teleporting, just say "I don't agree", there's no need to make a federal case out of it.

Linaleah

honestly at this point my only problem with this is people who zone in and just start porting without saying a single word. communicate in chat what you are doing. not everyone is still aware of this, people are NOT mind readers so you cannot expect random group to just know what the heck you are doing. personaly - I'll just go along with whatever, unless its something that is physically outside of group's ability to finish. but SAY what it is you are doing if its something other then running the dungeon you originally landed in.

thanks

nadrokal

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I've never seen anyone in actual PUGs use this trick, I did do it with premades when we went for pledges. However I do agree that at the very least it's a bug, and technically shouldn't happen.

Happened to me twice yesterday in pugs, "heading to FG1 port to me." I went as well. And here's why. I had sat in the queue for a full 20 minutes before the "someone has declined" BS even began. 25 minutes to even get into a random dungeon. The kicker is, it came up Elden Hollow I - one of easiest. But not the fastest so off to FG1 they went. I weighed the options - 25 minutes to get that far, versus another potential 25 minutes (plus timer) if I left and re-queued so I went as well. But the whole thing has changed my enthusiasm for doing as many as I can, to getting my tickets, helping a couple of friends maybe get a ticket, and then just doing something else.

MilwaukeeScott

I see a lot of post here explaining to the judge why they broke the law.

Always funny stuff

Chrlynsch

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Run the dungeons on 10 characters a day for the length of the event and then tell me how much fun they are. I want to get them done as quickly as possible. I don't find them fun anymore, I want the event tickets and the loot. I've been running these dungeons for the last 4 years...

This right here is the thing. If they would have made it account bound cooldown for the rewards, this probably wouldn't be a thing. Because some people feel like they have to run it on all their alts or they are missing out. These people want to make the process as quick as possible.

generalmyrick

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

i had this happen to me for the first time today! i was shocked! didn't know it worked like that.

zaria

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I've never seen anyone in actual PUGs use this trick, I did do it with premades when we went for pledges. However I do agree that at the very least it's a bug, and technically shouldn't happen.

With that said, the difficulty difference between FG1 and vFH is insane. I've been saying for a long time that there should be a tiered system for dungeons. Not only will it allow people to be able to queue for the kind of content that they have time and the skills for, but it will also give people a sense of progression when each tier has dungeons of comparable difficulty in it, and people know what tier they are or are not qualified for.

I'd also go further than DLC/non-DLC, because even though it has been a trend that DLC dungeons are harder, it doesn't necessarily have to be the case in the future, and comparing vFG1 to vCoA2 or vWGT to vFH isn't appropriate either. There is a big difference in difficulty and/or time requirement between all 4 of these, and the tier system should reflect that.

Also having an undaunted arena with scores for the performance of a specific role could help people figure out what dungeons they should or should not go to. I explained what I have in mind in a different thread with a different context, if you're interested, but that would solve the problem of people dropping out of dungeons too, because they would be more confident in the group's skills.

Falckreach hold? March of sacrifice is an pug killer on normal. I rank the normal as harder than vet 1 dungeons.
And yes they changed the dlc dungeons so the standard vet should not be so hard but HM is very hard.
Also experience, lots of the March of sacrifice issues is experience have had normals fail because people did not get CoS2 mechanic on second last boss or headless chickens in Darkshade 2

Joy_Division

Do people just want the reward boxes for logging in?

Because 10 minutes of mindlessly easy dungeoneering is too much of a chore, they've got better things to do, so just pick the mindlessly easy dungeon that takes 5 minutes. And I bet the people who port into FG I just drop down the waterfall because then it only takes 4 minutes.

That people complain about "carrying scrubs" and not wanting to be bothered with "noobs" is selfish, a cop out, and is not healthy at all for the long term prospects of the game. You know, they once sucked too. They were carried. They were a noob. Their suckiness pissed people off too. But someone was patient enough to show them the ropes so they wouldn't suck.

Considering even when ZOS incentives people - for one week out of the year - to get off their elitist high horse and actually interact and play with newer players, people can't be bothered, then these people are clearly not doing anything at all to foster the growth off this game, to help ensure inexperienced players stick at it.

I did Ruins of Mazzatun and Cradle of Shadows both with two players who weren't even level 30 and the other being like 200 CP. The mobs are still super easy to kill, they hardly do any damage, and the "scrubs" can simply be told the mechanics - just like someone did for all of us once. It was not a problem at all. There was only one wipe, and that happened because the "tank" aggroed the final boss and the door closed before I got into the room. If people are half as good as they think they are, even the hardest dungeons can be pretty much soloed and it's not a big deal to spend those 10 minutes or so out of their busy schedule this one week out of the year helping some newer players in the game and giving them an opportunity to to actually participate in content that so many players can't be bothered with.

warabi

Dawnblade wrote: »

Let's see...

Complete FG1 in a few minutes with no issues, collect reward box, go on to do whatever else in game...

OR

...get a newer, longer DLC with players who do not know any of the mechanics, and waste my evening as they treat the dungeon like progression raid night.

Anyways - I'd love to see them better balance and / or segregate the dungeons in the queue, providing an opt in / out and / or better rewards for doing DLC / vet DLC.

Absolutely this. Also, OP, keep in mind that people are trying to do 8+ chars for these boxes a day. Having to do that with what Dawnblade just posted is like mental torture.

Ramber

No Spat, people want it to be fair in more then just 1 way.

I agree this should be turned back on/off in the event other things are fixed first. Not the least of which is the problem of queueing as a different roll just to get into a dngn. If you Queue as a dps you expect a tank to be a tank and healer to be a healer. if they are all just some weak dps queueing as different roles how would you expect that team to complete any vet dngn much less a vet dlc dngn? The answer is they can't and i have seen it. a 15k health tank that swares it will be ok, that he "does it all the time" then proceeds to wipe on the first boss immediately upon the first hit he takes because he has never actually been in that dungeon to know how hard it is.

Should the other 3 players be punished because this guy did what he did? or should they have another option that does not allow for the replacement tank to be just another liar? Or waiting 15 mins to requeue only to replay the scenario?

As i suggested before this looks more like a way ZOS chose to patch/fixed other problems and is therefore not an issue.

Mureel

AlnilamE wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Where does it say that random is designed to fill specific criteria for a player queuing a specific dungeon?

I get that is a logical argument for one function of the random, but to say that it exists solely to fill groups of people that want a specific dungeon is crazy.

So you get to not do a random dungeon and get a random group while everyone else is queued for a random dungeon and a random group.

Why are you special? What makes your choice to do a particular dungeon circumvent the fact that you are not actually getting randomness?

You should be banned for exploiting the random dungeon finder.

Why don't people get the same reward for queuing for a specific dungeon then? Because the reward is for the people playing "hired sword" (or staff) for someone who needs to complete a group to run a specific dungeon they want to run.

So everyone is supposed to just be all *sure!* to whatever dungeon anyone decides they will take advantage of

slofwnd wrote: »

I actually use group finder for specific dungeons with sets I need, very annoying when people jump into Grotto instead....

Well I’m sure you can handle it for a week- and if you ‘need’ special sets, surely you have a guild you run with where you need such sets (because in overland you need nothing) and then you can get them to help.

It’s not the end of the world and you can choose to not port.

Not really that complex.

Mureel

In all the ones I’ve run (and I’ve done Tank Train choo! choo! runs 15+ on a couple of the days ), I ask: anyone need gear or the skill point? Wanna pop to fg1 or stay?

Sometimes was pop, sometimes stay.

People are mostly cool.

Just be cool and they likely will too!

I got loads of carries/skill points for my lowbie by just asking ‘could we stay? I’d really appreciate the skillpoint!’

I think some people are really overblowing things.

Thankfully, most things that are full of hot are are apt to just float away. ;-)

Jaraal

Amiliana wrote: »

The fact that you get rewards for completing your choice of dungeon is also not new. It was not that far back that we were constantly ported into dungeons that had not been reset, and still got the rewards when we ported and finished a different one.

If ZOS were considering this as an important exploit, they would have fixed it with the group finder patch they had the other day.

Exactly, see this almost every day in guild chat. "Need help with final boss in vet(DungeonNameHere), x up for invite" and then you join group, port in, kill boss in a couple minutes, loot monster helm, and leave. If this was an exploit they would have stopped the ability to do this years ago.

Ramber

yes im sure he has as many and similar guilds as you have Jar... lets all assume as much as possible and start getting stuff done!

FilteredRiddle

Junkriid wrote: »

If you're not ok with the fg1 teleporting, just say "I don't agree", there's no need to make a federal case out of it.

Exactly this.

You have been able to do this since the game came out. People haven't complained because most people don't do this during normal PUGs. If/when they do, it's usually with a pre-made group of 4. If - and I genuinely mean if - someone does it in a PUG, you have 2 options: if only one person wants to do it, tell them no and if they travel anyways, kick them from the group OR if only one person doesn't want to do it, kick them from the group so they can re-queue without the 15 minute penalty.

For this event if you have 1 or 2 or 3 toons, sure, spending 30 minutes on a normal dungeon might seem like no big deal. It'll only take you 30 minutes to 1.5 hours to get all of your toons finished, and you move on with your day. For people who have 2-3 times as many toons though, taking 30 minutes to complete a single dungeon is completely unfeasible. I have 11 toons; can you imagine spending 5.5 hours running random normal dungeons for the event? How would I do anything else in the game? Hell, how would I do that on most days?! One of my closest ESO friends has the full 15 toons; should she spend 7.5 hours running random normal dungeons? That's insanity. If not for the FG1 switch, every time I got CoA II or a DLC dungeon, I'd probably choose to leave group and switch toons to try my luck elsewhere.

Stop complaining. Let people do the event how they want to do it, and either kick people out who travel to FG1 (if they're the minority) or ask to be kicked and re-queue (if you're the minority). When the event is over, everything will return to normal and you'll have nothing to worry about.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Stop complaining. Let people do the event how they want to do it, and either kick people out who travel to FG1 (if they're the minority) or ask to be kicked and re-queue (if you're the minority). When the event is over, everything will return to normal and you'll have nothing to worry about.

THIS!! FOR TALOS'S SAKE THIS

Can't we solve this as a community instead of running to Daddy ZOS and forcing them to come up with some policy or fix that will just make things worse? As history has shown, ZOS really struggles figuring out moral issues in their own video game or what counts as cheating or harassment, so lets not worry their pretty little heads over it.

Just communicate with your group and solve it like adults.

I've been running a little experiment since this started and the results have been interesting.
Whenever my PUG, (usually with at least someone below lvl 50) hits one of the longer more mechanics bound dungeons (like bloodroot forge) I usually message them and ask them what they want to do.

I type something like this:
"Hey all, this is one of the newer dungeons with complicated mechanics that you have to be aware of even on normal, we may wipe a few times if you are new. It may take an hour or so to complete. Here are our options: We can do this and I will try my best to explain the mechanics, or we can port to an easier dungeon and still get the reward. what do you want to do?"

The usual response I get is that people are curious and willing to try the new dungeon, especially if they haven't done it before, but are willing to port if we wipe too many times. Sometimes a few people are pressed for time and would rather do an easier one. that is ok too. Everyone agrees and then we do it.

Why can we all just solve it like that? Among ourselves. And not cry to ZOS every time a little talking to your fellow humans can fix something?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Does seem like this needs to be that huge of an issue.

Acrolas

I think the main issue is that this method permits you to take a shortcut within a shortcut, which seems like an unfair way to get not only the reward box, but the bonus experience and supplies.

If FG1 didn't have such an obvious shortcut, I might feel differently. But there's definitely intent here to expedite the process beyond what would be, perhaps, a reasonable expectation.