ZOS: Can this stupid PUG "trick" get a fix?

redspecter23

Tholian1 wrote: »

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

@zos

Is using the Random Dungeon finder then porting to the dungeon of your choice considered an exploit?

I don't want to get banned if it is.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

AlnilamE wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

Let's see...

Complete FG1 in a few minutes with no issues, collect reward box, go on to do whatever else in game...

OR

...get a newer, longer DLC with players who do not know any of the mechanics, and waste my evening as they treat the dungeon like progression raid night.

Anyways - I'd love to see them better balance and / or segregate the dungeons in the queue, providing an opt in / out and / or better rewards for doing DLC / vet DLC.

I think you highlighted a root cause of the issue here. Of all the dungeons in the pool, they are not of equal length and difficulty. Sure, there will always be some that are easier or shorter than others, but the difference between FG1 and Scalecaller is huge. A fast group can finish FG1 in under 5 minutes. There is a zero percent chance of that ever happening in a DLC dungeon, partially due to length, difficulty and also the crazy amount of boss monologing that seems to be present before you can even start many fights.

Yes, this workaround is giving people easier random completions but the root issue is that the dungeon pool has such a vast difference in how long it can take to finish them. This causes people to find the path of least resistance and there is a very easy way to get that right now.

If this were to be fixed in some way, it could just lead to more problems. People simply dropping out of DLC randoms and swapping toons to try again or just eating the 15 minute penalty knowing that even with that penalty they might just get a faster dungeon the next time.

If all dungeons in any given pool of randoms were of similar length and difficulty, the issue becomes mostly a non issue.

So are you suggesting something like splitting the dungeon pools by pledge giver? With tiered rewards where only the DLC dungeons get what is the current random daily reward? (Or maybe still have a "all dungeons" queue that also rewards the current reward but you take your chances).

There essentially already is a tier system. You can lock out the DLC randoms by just not owning them. If you choose to not sub or not buy the DLC you have an easier pool of randoms. It's a bit backward really. Paying to lose in a way. My personal preference would be to just put the base game dungeons in the random pool. If you want to run the DLC dungeons, just select them and queue. In that way those that sub to the game or own the DLC's can have the same advantage that those that choose not to sub already have. I know that I would definitely do the random queue a lot more if the DLC's were excluded in some way. I went out of my way to cancel my sub during the duration of this event so I can enjoy it more. I shouldn't be rewarded with easier queues by giving ZOS less money, but it is what it is.

Sievertsv

thanks for the info didnt know about that makes doing the daily on 5 characters easier now

Nyladreas

What in the actual flying frig(<. <) even is the point of playing the game if you're just going to do this stupid crap lol.

Where are you rushing to? Why even? Are you trying to play a game or are you just addicted with absolutely no sense of respect for other players?

Do you want to just be an annoying narcissistic little bug or do you want to help others get through something for the sake of fun?


Is all you care about some stupid event reward??? Really? Just me me me me me and I... The *** is this century, mate?

I'm sorry to say this but if any of these things; other players, "long dungeon", incompetence, not enjoying the game for what it is, irritation over irrelevant chunks of binary code etc. applies to you... Then you have a much larger problem than all those together and should honestly take a break. Or better yet seek medical aid.

This is extremely sad. ZOS should label this as an official exploit and remove it or even give out temp bans for your own sake.

DarcyMardin

Whoa, I didn’t know this was a thing. I never use the random dungeon finder except when I absolutely have to, as in this event. Not that it’s been working for me during this event. But the one time it did actually work, it was porting my husband and me into Falcreath Hold, when my game crashed before I landed. I can’t say I was sorry—I would have been tempted to bail if I had gotten in.

DLC dungeons demand a totally different level of play than the regular dungeons. With a group that’s unaccustomed to them, they aren’t fun at all. The dungeon finder needs to be adjusted so players aren’t thrown into situations they can’t handle.

AlnilamE

redspecter23 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

@zos

Is using the Random Dungeon finder then porting to the dungeon of your choice considered an exploit?

I don't want to get banned if it is.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

AlnilamE wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

Let's see...

Complete FG1 in a few minutes with no issues, collect reward box, go on to do whatever else in game...

OR

...get a newer, longer DLC with players who do not know any of the mechanics, and waste my evening as they treat the dungeon like progression raid night.

Anyways - I'd love to see them better balance and / or segregate the dungeons in the queue, providing an opt in / out and / or better rewards for doing DLC / vet DLC.

I think you highlighted a root cause of the issue here. Of all the dungeons in the pool, they are not of equal length and difficulty. Sure, there will always be some that are easier or shorter than others, but the difference between FG1 and Scalecaller is huge. A fast group can finish FG1 in under 5 minutes. There is a zero percent chance of that ever happening in a DLC dungeon, partially due to length, difficulty and also the crazy amount of boss monologing that seems to be present before you can even start many fights.

Yes, this workaround is giving people easier random completions but the root issue is that the dungeon pool has such a vast difference in how long it can take to finish them. This causes people to find the path of least resistance and there is a very easy way to get that right now.

If this were to be fixed in some way, it could just lead to more problems. People simply dropping out of DLC randoms and swapping toons to try again or just eating the 15 minute penalty knowing that even with that penalty they might just get a faster dungeon the next time.

If all dungeons in any given pool of randoms were of similar length and difficulty, the issue becomes mostly a non issue.

So are you suggesting something like splitting the dungeon pools by pledge giver? With tiered rewards where only the DLC dungeons get what is the current random daily reward? (Or maybe still have a "all dungeons" queue that also rewards the current reward but you take your chances).

There essentially already is a tier system. You can lock out the DLC randoms by just not owning them. If you choose to not sub or not buy the DLC you have an easier pool of randoms. It's a bit backward really. Paying to lose in a way. My personal preference would be to just put the base game dungeons in the random pool. If you want to run the DLC dungeons, just select them and queue. In that way those that sub to the game or own the DLC's can have the same advantage that those that choose not to sub already have. I know that I would definitely do the random queue a lot more if the DLC's were excluded in some way. I went out of my way to cancel my sub during the duration of this event so I can enjoy it more. I shouldn't be rewarded with easier queues by giving ZOS less money, but it is what it is.

The thing is that the DLC dungeons are not that much harder than Girion's dungeons. It's just a matter of practice.

I'll take White Gold Tower over City of Ash II, for example. The dungeons were designed to increase in difficulty as the zones progress, and that is still the case even with One Tamriel. And CoA II is worse to me than any of the DLC dungeons I'm familiar with.

The other problem is that the reason there is a "Random Dungeon" queue in the first place is to fill groups for people who want to run a specific dungeon. So if new DLC dungeons come out, people are going to want to run them. If ZOS decides to throw those people under the bus because people queuing for randoms don't want to do them, they might as well just do away with the Random Dungeon queue all together.

firedrgn

So um you type what into the text box?. Im just asking for a friend.

freespirit

Omg …… I know about that "trick" BUT seriously everyone, how hard are any "normal" dungeons???

idk

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

@zos

Is using the Random Dungeon finder then porting to the dungeon of your choice considered an exploit?

I don't want to get banned if it is.

It is clearly not what is intended though it is humorous that most normal dungeons challenge someone that much they can only handle FG1.

Considering Zos completely ignored the GF issue for over a year and is just now attempting to fix it they will not care any more about this exploit.

To OP, and anyone else, just kick the player. They deserve that much.

MilwaukeeScott

Maintenance tomorrow at 6 am on ALL platforms?

Fix today?

Temp bans tomorrow?

Florial

redspecter23 wrote: »

There essentially already is a tier system. You can lock out the DLC randoms by just not owning them. If you choose to not sub or not buy the DLC you have an easier pool of randoms. It's a bit backward really. Paying to lose in a way. My personal preference would be to just put the base game dungeons in the random pool. If you want to run the DLC dungeons, just select them and queue. In that way those that sub to the game or own the DLC's can have the same advantage that those that choose not to sub already have. I know that I would definitely do the random queue a lot more if the DLC's were excluded in some way. I went out of my way to cancel my sub during the duration of this event so I can enjoy it more. I shouldn't be rewarded with easier queues by giving ZOS less money, but it is what it is.

I wanted to comment on this and say that I totally agree. I bought a second account because I truly love the game however I WILL NOT buy the ESO+ for exactly this reason. I know if I queue for a random, I will be assured of getting a non DLC dungeon. My buddies also know that and I've encouraged a few not to get ESO+ for a second account. I use my second account to get into the easier, less time intensive dungeons. This event has been good to me for exactly that reason. Not worth the hassle IMO. My finger has been on the sub button for quite some time for the convenience of the crafting bag and other perks however I just don't want the DLC dungeon hassle. In my opinion this is a money loss for ZOS. Really a shame. I would love a system where you could opt out.

With that said, when I do have the time, I like the DLC dungeons and plan on learning them all very well--on my main account. I hate having to avoid content but at times, I just want to have a relaxing evening to play without all the hassle. Not a surprise that folks are taking advantage of this loophole.

Lunachik

There are couple of good points made in this convo. I just wanted to comment on those.

I think its a ban worthy exploit to hop out of dungeon , and I while I'm not surprised its happening, I am disappointed. I left 2 groups today because someone decided to leave and to do Fungal Grotto once we were inside, one person went w/them in each case. The other person and I got a time penalty because we left the group, but the exploiters just went on to get their reward? Yeah, not a great system. I know there are always ppl looking for the easiest way to get things, but putting other ppl in this position is poor treatment of other gamers. I also know that players are reporting folks who are doing it. I guess ZoS will have to decide if it's ban worthy or not.

However, I do agree that not having an option to disable the DLC dungeons for random dailies is an issue. I would like to see an option for ESO plus players/dlc owners to turn that content off for their daily. Yes, I pay for that content and enjoy it, but I think it would be better for everyone, if we had the choice to turn it off for all queue types, rather than being required to play it.

I hope a solution can be worked out. Thanks ZoS folks for all your hard work. /edited for typos

firedrgn

You can face roll most the normals. You dont need a healer you dont need a tank. Who is actually using this?
Im not sure its that big of a deal.
Enlighten me if u want, but there are other issuse that need taken care of first.

gabriebe

So this is what happens to the guy who reminds the teacher to verify we all did our homework when he grows up, uh...

yodased

The easiest fix is to not allow random queues to intersect with specific dungeon queues.

If you have a specific dungeon you want to do, queue for that dungeon and wait for 3 more people who want to do that specific dungeon are found.

Queuing solo into specific dungeon and then getting mad when people don't want to do your choice is absurd. Everyone is saying that you take the risk of, well i am not sure what, but a risk when you queue for a random.

I can assure you that if people are banned for this, the workaround will be swift and you simply will not be able to do the dungeon you want to without a premade group.

It goes both ways, random should expect random players and dungeons and those that queue for specific dungeons should no be included in the pool of random player/dungeon combos.

You are being disingenuous if you say that queuing for a specific dungeon is the same as queuing for a random

Epona222

This is all well and good BUT ONLY APPLIES IF DUNGEON FINDER ACTUALLY PUTS YOU IN ANY DUNGEON INSTEAD OF THE CONSTANT FAILED READY CHECK BUG....

Sorry for yelling, am a little unhappy about the poor rate of success when using dungeon finder so far during this event. I wish I could have the opportunity to opt for Fungal instead - I would just like to have it stop saying that someone wasn't ready and going into a loop of that.

Foobiscuit11

My "fix" for this was just to run these on my level 24 nightblade healer. Fairly fast queues (under 5 minutes) and the hardest one I'll get is Elden Hollow I. I understand how that doesn't work well if you have a full 14 CP 810s...but that's when I would ask my guild if anyone wants to do a random dungeon on a low level alt they're working on. I did that the other day too with my CP 400 tank...ran a guildie's level 18 nightblade through Banished Cells I.

Jeremy

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

It's hard for me to imagine a logical argument against this being an exploit.

So I agree with you. There is nothing random about cherry-picking the easiest dungeon.

Epona222

Foobiscuit11 wrote: »

My "fix" for this was just to run these on my level 24 nightblade healer. Fairly fast queues (under 5 minutes) and the hardest one I'll get is Elden Hollow I. I understand how that doesn't work well if you have a full 14 CP 810s...but that's when I would ask my guild if anyone wants to do a random dungeon on a low level alt they're working on. I did that the other day too with my CP 400 tank...ran a guildie's level 18 nightblade through Banished Cells I.

I am not actually talking about long queue times for max level dps, I am talking about dungeon finder being completely broken for pre-made groups of 4 and refusing to put them in a dungeon - keeps looping back to the ready check. The exact same thing happened for this event last year too

Vapirko

It has nothing to do with picking the easiest dungeon lol. It’s just a way to run a specific dungeon for drops or a pledge, while also getting the random reward. Although why anyone gives a *** is beyond me. For most players doing dungeons hold so little interest and anyone can do any of them. It’s one thing when people are exploiting the boss mechanics on a vet HM trial for an achievement. or whatever it was, but to “exploit” into a different dungeon is like who cares? Not even the DLC dungeons on normal can really be considered a challenge and you’re not really getting around any mechanics per say. In fact I had one group who wanted to go into a harder dungeon than what we randomly loaded into. So I was like sure why not, it’s normal anyway. And I’m not gonna suffer a queue penalty for leaving. Got my dungeon runs in very quickly this way. By contrast I tried the actual random group tool and got stuck in ready check. Waited 10 min for something to change then logged off. So, ZOS has no moral high ground here lol if there is one to take.

karekiz

yodased wrote: »

The easiest fix is to not allow random queues to intersect with specific dungeon queues.

If you have a specific dungeon you want to do, queue for that dungeon and wait for 3 more people who want to do that specific dungeon are found.

Basically you might as well remove specific que for non pledge dungeons at that point.

ChunkyCat

I’m going to laugh when I read the patch notes stating that this has been fixed, but nothing was done to fix group finder issues.

firedrgn

Ive nver had anyone port to fung

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Do you know how tiring it is whenever you get into a group through the Activity Finder only for the leader to say 'lemme p0rt to fungal grotto 1, brah' because he/she/it/whatever refuses to do the actual the dungeon they get? You STILL get the rewards from the Activity Finder even though they manually port to an easier "dungeon" (Fungal Grotto 1 is just an oversized delve, seriously). That isn't a 'random dungeon through the activity finder' in my book. Can that get fixed, please? Pretty please.

I'm sure people will disagree because this easy peasy lemon squeezy cheesy "trick" is too much of a convenience for them.

EDIT: Lo and behold! People who like to exploit stuff already came in to defend this. I'm done.

I have pugged every dungeon in game with the exception of some dlc vets. I pugged evey single random dungeon tonget undaunted. I have never not one time ever had anyone lemme port to fg1.

How many dungeons u running a day to get it to happen so much? Or what you playing on? Xbox?

An_An

Meh. Spend 15 minutes on a trivial but long normal dungeon versus spend 5 min on a trivial but short dungeon. I’d choose the latter... it’s not like anyone has any doubt whether we’d complete the normal dungeon whatever it may be ...

If OP wants a challenge might I suggest queuing for vet dungeons instead. They too give the same rewards...


Or ...

Were you planning to take advantage of the event to farm dungeon gear? You naughty boy.

weedgenius

Why do you care? Like, really... how does this negatively impact your personal experience?

bottleofsyrup

Why does it trigger you so much?

Mister_DMC

Run the dungeons on 10 characters a day for the length of the event and then tell me how much fun they are. I want to get them done as quickly as possible. I don't find them fun anymore, I want the event tickets and the loot. I've been running these dungeons for the last 4 years...

D0PAMINE

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I didn't know that was a thing. Sounds awesome. Maybe I'll start doing that.

Oh, you're one of those type of people.

I do feel bad for using that trick, but I only do it in my circle of friends, and only if everyone agrees. It is an exploit nontheless, and will get fixed.

D0PAMINE

MasterSpatula wrote: »

People want the rewards without taking the risk they’re being rewarded for. Disappointing.

Actually, in my case, I don't care about the rewards. Im getting bored of dungeons but my friends want the prizes and undaunted etc. We blast through it then do something overland because there are 5 of us. It's a serious exploit, and it's going to get abused and potentially ruin the event for people who want to run an actual random dungeon.

mocap

i bet many people didn't even know about this before this topic. Tx, OP. You screw it even more, lol

D0PAMINE

idk wrote: »

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

@zos

Is using the Random Dungeon finder then porting to the dungeon of your choice considered an exploit?

I don't want to get banned if it is.

It is clearly not what is intended though it is humorous that most normal dungeons challenge someone that much they can only handle FG1.

Considering Zos completely ignored the GF issue for over a year and is just now attempting to fix it they will not care any more about this exploit.

To OP, and anyone else, just kick the player. They deserve that much.

Agreed. There are people who are still reluctant to kick. It's the best tool players can use to settle disputes without needing ZoS to step in everytime.