PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

WuffyCerulei

Trying this change on the PTS, and it just feels to clunky. Someone could easily interrupt you, and you're essentially dead.

Sandman929

I'd almost like to see this go live to see what people come up with to adapt. I guess the out-pouring of "the sky is falling" sorcs is making me hope this goes live.

Emma_Overload

I'm excited about the Overload changes, especially for PvE, but...........

The 1 second cast time on Conjured Ward is a DEATH SENTENCE for Mag Sorc in PvP.

I can live with (and adapt to) the other changes, but the cast time is too much. Sorc defense is so flimsy we MUST be able to cast Ward instantly in order to prevent immediate death.

SpiderCultist

Revert that second cast time, please.

DeadlyRecluse

I don't play a lot of magsorc, but I'm posting in this thread to be part of what will possibly be the longest class feedback thread ever.

That shield change is such an extreme change to not just an ability, but an entire playstyle.

valeriiya

My concern is the lag we experience in PvP PS4 NA, it sometimes takes me three times to bar swap if a shield is on the other bar so now i have to slot it twice and pray to the server gods that it works first try. 1 sec in PVE or PvP is a long time.

lygerseye

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

ZOS balance quote: "We want Sorcerers to feel like they have access to their full arsenal while in Overload mode. This ability is updated to better integrate with other abilities. As soon as you Overload light attack you can cast an ability, just like the light attacks of any other weapon set."

If you really want us to feel like we have access to our "full arsenal" then why are you removing the third bar???? This literally is having the opposite effect of what is intended! That description of your intentions is just an extra slap in the face!

Thank you. Saved me the time of typing this myself.

lpfan678

I guess I just don't understand why ZOS has spend so long using resource management as a primary focus of combat updates and then they sidestep that whole philosophy with a cast time on shields. It makes shield abilities unusable in many PvE situations. Magicka DPS characters are already squishy and susceptible to one-shots and this makes it even more so. Please look into cost balances with shields, not cast times.

notyuu

So..shield changes are...uncomfortable to say the least of it.. it's not the resistance + critable setup, no it's the 1 second cast time, making sheilds go from pre-emptive defense to basically pointless, as by the time you can cast one, you're already dead/the sheild you put up was burnt all the way though, meaning you eaither have to focus on sustaining a shield constantly or outputting damage..basically killing sorcs main [and basically only] defensive measure, rednering the change a moot point, I would strongly suggest removing the cast time [or lowering it to like 0.5 seconds t the most]

NBrookus

Hixtory wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I haven't mained a sorc in years, so the following isn't salty sorc tears:

Yes, sorcs infinately stacking shields was annoying. But this is too much. Sorcs don't have crap for defense and heals aside from shields.

At a minimum, Hardened/Empowered Ward need to be instant. Go ahead and make Harness have a cast time so sorcs can't stack stack stack, but if Hardened isn't instant sorcs have no way to defend reactively and no way to burst heal in combar aside from a pet they have to double bar.

Templars have complained and complained about cast time abilities... why do you think adding this pain to other classes is a good idea?

The change to crit should be enough, but if they so much want the 1s delay make it that harness is the only one instant. So if you want to stack shields you have to go harness first and then hardened.

This way all builds can have at least 1 shield, I dont need it in my magDK but certainly yes in the sorc. MagDK can have a lot of heals going on, sorc doesnt.

I dont like this change, and I hope they revert it back to just crit allowed

Indeed. I think the crit thing can be balanced with mitigation -- pending testing -- just means sorcs have to wear something other than pajamas and think about resists and impen. Most good sorcs invest in impen now.

Cast time on shields tho... I feel sorry for sorc mains.

nuttytom

Sorry but there is actually no way anyone from ZOS plays a magsorc in pvp. The shield cast time especially is just terrible.

Lord-Otto

Dracane wrote: »

Malpeczka wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Since I don't need to care anymore from now on. I am openly saying, I am going to sell my account. Ban me if you wish.
I've never said this before but I am done with this non-sense. Observing this pts cycle will be my last move and then it's time to move on from this destructive nerf fest.

Dramatically dissapointed by the class reps and the new combat designer. Absolute failure.

I want to buy it and delete

We have a deal. I don't care what happens to it. Just some profit before the ship sinks.
I could invest that in some breast implants. Or perhaps some liftings here and there.

Almalexia cosplay costume, pleeease!
(^-^)

antihero727

Feanor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Great changes tbh. The shield stacking has gotten out of control.....

It’s quite ironic seeing a stamNB receiving even more buffs and thinking it’s great other classes get huge nerfs.

The changes to evasion are actually nerfs for stamblades. As for the shield counterplay I want the blue skooma they are smoking at ZOS. Werewolf Walter White was busy this balance cycle.

FrancisCrawford

I only play PvE.

My best overland character is a Breton sorcerer. My best dungeon character is an Altmer sorcerer.

I don't envision playing sorcerer in hard content again.

This is solely because of the shield cast time imposition. I haven't thought hard about the other changes, e.g. the sustain buffs to pets, because they don't matter. If a class is unplayable, who cares what its details are?

Judas Helviaryn

I can accept taking crits on my ward, and having penetration apply to it. I'm very wary of what the cast timer, one of the most annoying things in the game next to cooldowns, will do to the magsorc's defensive arsenal.

Power surge alone was only useful as a heal when it was covered up by shield spamming. You cannot preemptively charge one ward for 10-12.5k damage after battle spirit, and expect it to be anything more than a detriment to your playstyle while actively focusing on another opponent. Having a cast time means it will also be interruptable, disabling the skill for a short amount of time in a crucial part of the fight where the magsorc feels the emergency ward is necessary, both leaving him more vulnerable than other classes with a dedicated heal, as well as reinforcing the two-barred shield meta, that is hardened ward and dampening ward.

By attempting to combat shield stacking indirectly through this method, they have inadvertently reinforced the two-barred damage shield playstyle by requiring a backup should the first be disabled through interruption, on top of forcing PVP magsorcs into using the restoration skill line for -one- ability, healing ward.

Overall not thrilled about this, and when put together with the overload nerf and loss of our third bar, I'm genuinely disenchanted with the direction of the game.

Ragnaroek93

olsborg wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

?????????????

I don't need to test that on PTS to tell you that a cast time on shields will be super unfun to play. I don't want to go into balance much yet but giving shields a cast time and making them critable to give them more counterplay? Isn't shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows enough counterplay already?

Making them crittable was enough tbh. Giving them cast time aswell was a dagger in the back of magsorcs. Adding in the fact that sets like sloads and shieldbreaker still exists is making it beyond ridiculous. Please lessen the blow of this patchs nerf to magsorc (and I havent rly played mine in years) they dont need to get nerfed this hard.

I think even making them "only" crittable would be an overnerf. I would have removed shieldstacking, buffed the base value of shields a bit, tuned down their scaling with magicka but let them also scale with spelldmg while reworking Shieldbreaker and Shattering Blows. I don't really have issues against magsorcs (and I play without any points in Shattering Blows at all), the only annoying thing are mines, which will just end by both players going defensive without being able to kill each other.


Giving shields a cast time, making them bashable and making them crittable is ridiculous and even a super terrible player will realise that this is a complete overnerf. Even people who aren't playing sorc should be worried about this and the direction ZOS is moving to. The sorc changes are just a big WTF coming out of nowhere, there's absolutely no justification for this.

I'm actually duelling and playing solo pvp since 3 years while magsorc is my 2nd most played class. From my experience I can say that this changes are totally garbage and will completely destroy the current playstyle of magsorc. Your developers weren't bad when I played against one during an ESO live, who the hell comes out with this ideas? I don't believe that this is something which comes from class reps, nor do I think that the class reps agreed that this would be a good idea. For the love of god, let someone make the balance changes who actually plays the game.

After WoW releases an expansion you come (again) with an update which mostly contains nerfs and huge gameplay changes which anger the community. 200 IQ marketing team confirmed?

katorga

Just wow, magicka NB and Sorc who relied on shields pvp/pve are done. I guess they can use a frost staff and stack block cost reduction. Looking at the changes more closely, I think Sorc is finished for PVE too.

Next up, 1 second cast times for block and dodge roll to increase the desirability of healers, lol.

DrScott59

Just tried this out on PTS.

The 1-second shield cast time is a HOT MESS.

Also, I timed it as 2.5 seconds, not 1 second??? Even not in combat, standing alone, no other skills used before/after, 100ms ping and no discernable lag, I could press the key for empowered ward and it took 2-2.5 seconds before the shield application showed on health bar.

So is it 1 second, or is it actually 2.5 seconds?

Giraffon

4 hours
170 posts about the cast time

Devs need to sit up and pay attention. How about a nice little response like:

"Based on Feedback, we are going to remove the cast time for this round and keep a close eye on balance issues for this class moving forward."

Don't F'in reduce the cast time to .8 or some BS like that. Just get rid of it.

Miswar

Had to re read these notes four times.

I mean utterly R.I.P mag sorc. Is that what you were aiming to do?

It was already burden to play mag sorc but this cast time business etc is messed up that just delete the whole class.

I could go on and say a lot of things as people paying for this game should.

Shame on you ZOS and whoever is brainstorming these well GG. Can finally uninstall this game once these changes hit to live servers.

Just pissed off beyond words after reading these notes. Have played with my main mag sorc tons of hours and it comes down to this rubbish!

RIP

Lady_Sleepless

You need to change the animation for the new ward. Harness Magicka looks great, like you're summoning a ward to yourself, the new sorcerer ward animation looks like you are constipated. If you're going to change the wards at least make them look cool. Add an actual summoning animation as it is in the daedric summoning skill anyway.

Tonturri

ZOS, I find several issues with your natch notes.

Damage shields are very powerful because they can be used to instantly reduce incoming damage, and allow the user to stack offensive stats while also being very difficult to kill. Adding a cast time and increasing the duration makes this an ability to use proactively before damage happens, or at opportune times during combat.

Your entire game functions like this. Your stamina builds stack stamina and weapon damage to dodge roll more, block more, get stronger heals. Magicka builds get more magicka and spell damage in order to get stronger shields.

If you're going to use this logic to justify nerfing shields because they 'stack offensive stats while also being very difficult to kill', you're going to have to add a cast time to literally every single defensive skill in the game. This is basically adding a 1 sec cast to Vigor.

There is also zero functional difference between a magicka build shielding to reduce incoming damage and a stamina build rolling to reduce incoming damage. They all 'instantly reduce incoming damage'. A shield is just slightly more preemptive than, say, templar healing up...but that's about it. Zero functional difference unless the user falls into execute range or the incoming burst is in a certain range. You made ESO to be an action-y game - a whole LOAD of stuff instantly reduces incoming damage. Again, the logic here is flawed, and you're applying it only to extremely specific scenarios.

You all need to really listen to what the playerbase is telling you concerning cast times. Do you remember Templars? Dark Deal? You guys don't seem to be learning from your mistakes.

We want Sorcerers to feel like they have access to their full arsenal while in Overload mode. This ability is updated to better integrate with other abilities. As soon as you Overload light attack you can cast an ability, just like the light attacks of any other weapon set.

Sorcerers have the lowest...how to say, things done per GCD out of any class. We have a ton of nice skills, but they all only ever do ONE thing per cast. Compared to nightblades who (previously xD) could cast a skill and have it do several different things - damage + Heal, damage + snare, snare + CC + maim. Meanwhile, a sorc shield ONLY shields, Frags ONLY deals more damage than other skills. Sorcs depended on their 3rd bar because we NEED all those extra skills. Our bar space is extremely limited compared to other classes. Overload 3rd bar was clunky as hell but people STILL USED IT - because it was better than the alternative! Please think about the implications of that.

Shields are getting changed to benefit from armor res now, but we've lost our third bar. How many sorcs do you think will have room on their bars for the armor buff? Who has room in their armor pieces to fit in what's needed to actually benefit from any of these changes?

You're trying to encourage people to use light armor, but you ended up shoving people more towards medium and heavy. Shields benefitting from res does jack for LA, considering their naturally low res in the first place. I agree, on paper it is sound...But you forgot to consider where sorcs were getting their armor bonuses from in the first place - aka the overload bar, which you just removed.

Which brings me to my next complaint.

Dark Exchange: This ability and its morphs now restore half their resources immediately, and the other half over 20 seconds. Total resources restored has been increased by approximately 2%. The Health restored remains unchanged.
Dark Deal (morph): This morph now also has a cost reduction bonus as its morph effect.

Sorcs already suffered with sustain and now you're nerfing it even more (on an ability that also has a cast time).


In short, ZOS, it seems like you're looking at all of our abilities on paper...and the abilities only. You seem totally out of touch with the sacrifices and benefits your two bars 5 slots 2 ults system has. All these things would be less of an issue if there were more bar slots or something, but there aren't. You also don't seem to take into consideration that classes exist, and a sorc cannot trade one skill line for a templar skill line. You're wide, sweeping changes are coming across as extremely thoughtless and harmful.

TLDR cast times aren't fun, please stop shoving 'em at us.

fr33r4ng3r

These patch notes have left me feeling frustrated and angry so I'll be brief:

1. Shields CANNOT have a cast time. In PvE trials content (incl vMA) cast time = DEAD!
2. Not everyone is a petsorc (I'm not). Please consider non pet builds!

ProfoundlyFaded

Wow you lot, I hope you have someone coming over to pick the toys up from the floor.

If you can't manage to play a Sorc without spamming shields then seriously, get out the kitchen because it is too hot for you in there.

There is no fun or glory in being nigh on invincible from being able to spam shields at the rate some players do.

I speak as a Sorc.

hollywood

I'm going to download the PTS tonight to be able to properly offer an alternative , but I just want to reinforce what everyone is saying. The cast time is way overkill. Light Armor doesn't offer enough resistances to make up for that (not to mention penetration) , and the extending the duration for a 7~8k shield doesn't help either.

I get it that the focus of this cast time is for PvE and not PvP , but there has to be a better alternative. I don't know, ditch the cast time and the increased duration, reduce shield strength overall and remove shields from the battle spirit reduction passive , while not allowing shield stacking and providing a duration bonus if using x pieces of light armor. The idea is to have weaker shields in pve and a stronger , single shield for PvP , considering they now are subject to crits , etc.

Mintaka5

Minno wrote: »

Sorc needs one shield to be instant cast, but maybe less shield value.

But at the same time, it should grant a self-burst heal instead of that damn pet with major protection somewhere in their kit.

That would be my initial thoughts on butchering their only defense mechanic in order to make PVE challenging.

No. They should just leave shields as is, or improve strength. Honestly, my main (magsorc) is melted with 21K health, and with hardened ward, and annulment stacked. Now it's been made even worse with a cast time.

Self-burst heal is available with resto staff skill healing ward, but as good as the heal is, it takes forever to heal, and the shield is trash.

Other than that, yes, the change to shield casting is a very poor decision. Tells me that game designers don't play light armor builds at all, because they don't understand it.

Minalan

Please hand us class respec tokens already ZOS.

I'll happily re-level all of the class skills

Ecara

A lot of good points were said and many users wrote such perfect sentences.
Therefore I just want to say one thing:

With this patchlog, It is the first time, that I really consider to stop playing ESO

I am so shocked, really. A sorc is not that OP, that he needs to be cut down that much.

I am really speachless.

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

Please hand us class respec tokens already ZOS.

I'll happily re-level all of the class skills

I want a refund!

Jerdeh

This change is just stupid to be honest. And the fact that the shield casting can be interrupted with along to casting time. Basically ZOS wanted to destroy only defense that light armor builds have. If you need to change something in shields, cut the amount in half that shield protects or something but not cast time to it. I have played since betas and seen all kind of changes but this is just one of the most absurd.