PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Lord-Otto

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Out of curiosity...
For the people that miss Overload's third bar - what builds were you running for what, that needed the third bar?

I was using it on stamsorc.

Frontbar: Ransack, reverb, streak, vigor, Bound Armaments- Overload
Backbar: Dark Deal, Executioner, Hurricane, Rally, Bound Armaments- Dawnbreaker

Overload Bar: Caltrops, Rapid, Shuffle, Critsurge, Flex Spot.

So ye, my buff Rotation needs my 3rd bar to get Shuffle, crit surge and gave me some additional skills for group utility. These skills (caltrops and rapid + whatever the group leader wanted due to my flex spot) made my stamsorc very welcomed in group play. Now i cant effort to run rapid or caltrops anymore due to the loss of my 3rd skillbar wich was already needed to carry all the important buff. So for future, looks like i am forced to drop Bound Armaments to get shuffle and crit surge on my main bar. Resulting in damage loss (8% stam) and sustain loss (20% more health/stam recovery)

Thanks ZOS. Anyway, no competetive group would take my stamsorc now cause i cant offer anything to the group anymore.

Redesign suggestion for Summoning:

Having a Summoning ability slotted, one bar is sufficient, increases magicka or stamina pool by 8%, whichever is higher. Also increases health and stamina regen by 20%. This works while on either bar.

Adjust corresponding NB passive to require only one bar, as well.

Would that solve most of your problems?

I often wonder what it would take to essentially merge bars form a buff toggle perspective, which would remove any need to double bar, well anything. The player would still have to actively swap, but any buff/passive related to having a skill slotted would simply apply to both bars. If you wanted major prophecy, you could back bar IL for example. It would also remove the annoying feature of having different resource pools on different bars (which in terms of health, can actually get you killed).

I think the potential for abuse would be players stacking passives skills on the back bar, and being able to simplify rotations and use less swapping, but honestly, who cares. If anything, it would only serve to raise the floor, which is desperately needed in this game. The best of the best run builds where bar space is already at a premium anyway. Not like mag sorcs are going to be slotting bound aegis, IL and a bunch of class, mages skills on the back bar and one shotting people, they dont have the room for those on live, no matter how they setup their bars.

I mean, you could just limit it to passives so it doesn't get out of hand. What I'm getting at here is that after the third bar's gone, there's no justification for sorc skills having to be double-barred.

Lord-Otto

Gnozo wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Out of curiosity...
For the people that miss Overload's third bar - what builds were you running for what, that needed the third bar?

I was using it on stamsorc.

Frontbar: Ransack, reverb, streak, vigor, Bound Armaments- Overload
Backbar: Dark Deal, Executioner, Hurricane, Rally, Bound Armaments- Dawnbreaker

Overload Bar: Caltrops, Rapid, Shuffle, Critsurge, Flex Spot.

So ye, my buff Rotation needs my 3rd bar to get Shuffle, crit surge and gave me some additional skills for group utility. These skills (caltrops and rapid + whatever the group leader wanted due to my flex spot) made my stamsorc very welcomed in group play. Now i cant effort to run rapid or caltrops anymore due to the loss of my 3rd skillbar wich was already needed to carry all the important buff. So for future, looks like i am forced to drop Bound Armaments to get shuffle and crit surge on my main bar. Resulting in damage loss (8% stam) and sustain loss (20% more health/stam recovery)

Thanks ZOS. Anyway, no competetive group would take my stamsorc now cause i cant offer anything to the group anymore.

Redesign suggestion for Summoning:

Having a Summoning ability slotted, one bar is sufficient, increases magicka or stamina pool by 8%, whichever is higher. Also increases health and stamina regen by 20%. This works while on either bar.

Adjust corresponding NB passive to require only one bar, as well.

Would that solve most of your problems?

Not really, i still need to put Bound Armaments on at least one bar to get the buff from it. With this I get one additional slot for crit surge. Still missing shuffle then and still no space for my group utility skills.

The changes to Overload just killed one identity of sorcs. Like shields also got deleted from sorcs identity it feels so generic playing this class now.

One patch killed so many playstyles that are here for years and got played by so many players that they cant be really serious about these changes.

Yeah, I wanted Armaments to retain a useful buff. I figured the light attack damage might be an expendable, yet useful buff.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Out of curiosity...
For the people that miss Overload's third bar - what builds were you running for what, that needed the third bar?

I was using it on stamsorc.

Frontbar: Ransack, reverb, streak, vigor, Bound Armaments- Overload
Backbar: Dark Deal, Executioner, Hurricane, Rally, Bound Armaments- Dawnbreaker

Overload Bar: Caltrops, Rapid, Shuffle, Critsurge, Flex Spot.

So ye, my buff Rotation needs my 3rd bar to get Shuffle, crit surge and gave me some additional skills for group utility. These skills (caltrops and rapid + whatever the group leader wanted due to my flex spot) made my stamsorc very welcomed in group play. Now i cant effort to run rapid or caltrops anymore due to the loss of my 3rd skillbar wich was already needed to carry all the important buff. So for future, looks like i am forced to drop Bound Armaments to get shuffle and crit surge on my main bar. Resulting in damage loss (8% stam) and sustain loss (20% more health/stam recovery)

Thanks ZOS. Anyway, no competetive group would take my stamsorc now cause i cant offer anything to the group anymore.

Redesign suggestion for Summoning:

Having a Summoning ability slotted, one bar is sufficient, increases magicka or stamina pool by 8%, whichever is higher. Also increases health and stamina regen by 20%. This works while on either bar.

Adjust corresponding NB passive to require only one bar, as well.

Would that solve most of your problems?

I often wonder what it would take to essentially merge bars form a buff toggle perspective, which would remove any need to double bar, well anything. The player would still have to actively swap, but any buff/passive related to having a skill slotted would simply apply to both bars. If you wanted major prophecy, you could back bar IL for example. It would also remove the annoying feature of having different resource pools on different bars (which in terms of health, can actually get you killed).

I think the potential for abuse would be players stacking passives skills on the back bar, and being able to simplify rotations and use less swapping, but honestly, who cares. If anything, it would only serve to raise the floor, which is desperately needed in this game. The best of the best run builds where bar space is already at a premium anyway. Not like mag sorcs are going to be slotting bound aegis, IL and a bunch of class, mages skills on the back bar and one shotting people, they dont have the room for those on live, no matter how they setup their bars.

I mean, you could just limit it to passives so it doesn't get out of hand. What I'm getting at here is that after the third bar's gone, there's no justification for sorc skills having to be double-barred.

I see no rational way to argue against that (probably why i have typed something similar a dozen or so times in the last week).

Urvoth wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

What about rebate now? It does nothing for stam sorcs, non-pet magsorcs and pve pet sorcs now. Can we finally change it to something useful that every sorc profits from?

Pets won't take damage only in the group content Rob listed. They will still be able to die in overland PvE, PvP, vMA, etc. It still exists, although I must admit my pets usually only die when I unsummon them upon entering a town/bank/trader, etc. So i'm not really getting much use of the passive as it is.

Okay, missed the vma part. But I still think petsorcs can bear the loss of rebate in overland content. This passive is just to niché now.

Feanor wrote: »

As for Sorc - what would you expect from a combat designer who reportedly asked the class reps if the lack of bar space is because Sorc „has too many good abilities“?

If the class gets the long needed rework I’ll say that the shield changes were for the better, and the correct choice. It’s just that I doubt very much that it will happen within a reasonable timeframe (cf. Templars).

Lol "Too many good abilities."

They're just all equally ass so it looks like we're making 'interesting bar-slot choices', when in reality it's 'what sucks the least' as opposed to 'what do I like/works the best'.

Edit: ZOS, you need to stop nerfing based on statistics. Sometimes people use this or that because it's FUN. And you should make other stuff fun instead of dragging everything ever down into the dirt with all the other unloved toys.

Exactly this, especially for PvP. We have limited bar space because if we don't use multiple shields, we have no defense. If we don't use curse, frags, wrath/fury, rune cage or reach, and a high damage ult like meteor or dawnbreaker, we don't have enough damage for our burst. Streak is mandatory, we have to sacrifice a shield for Boundless, Dark Conversion/Deep Thoughts is essential for sustain, and we won’t have reliable damage or be able to proc frags without a spammable.

The problem is the all our skills basically do only one thing, and most of them are necessary for a viable build, and the only viable build has historically been a light armor, shield stacking one. Mines is a great utility skill, but I’ll never have bar space to slot it unless some other skills get merged or reworked. It’s the same thing for Surge. Too many skills are pretty much mandatory to slot because each skill does something very specific and nothing else. Every non pet sorc has pretty much the exact same bar setup aside from one or two skills.

This is one of the bigger pain points on sorc. At a minimum, you need two shields to survive. To secure a kill, you need 4 to 5 skills. You need a curse, frag, execute, and some way to proc your frag and a CC. You can either go FP/RC or Reach. The former is more powerful, the later is easier on the bars. Assuming you go with FP/RC, you have 3 abilities to work with. Boundless will be mandatory next patch, DC is mandatory for sustain, and streak is mandatory for mobility. This build has no powersurge or healing ward, so heals are suspect. You also have absolutely no room for some of the other more unique class skills like mines, encase, bound armaments, to say nothing about a double barred pet.

Now if each pet was one bar, well, familiar could act as a pressure and stun (might be better than RC for a lot of people), and twilight could be a heal, potentially replacing one of your shields. If sorcs had reasonable sustain, you might be able to get away from DC as a mandatory skill. If frags still had a stun, you would free up a slot, etc.

I think the biggest issue is that sorcs have to devote too many bar spaces to actually be able to secure a kill.

The bar setup I am looking at next patch is basically 1. FP, RC, Wrath, Curse, Frags. 2. DC, Boundless, Streak, Anullment, Empowering ward. My only heal will be DC (interuptable channel) and a resto ultimate. I will be reliant on spell power pots for my damage buff. If my shields fall, I am toast. If I get behind in a fight, I am probably toast unless I have an ultimate. Basically this patch forced us to add Boundless storm into our builds, and took away an overload bar so the only way to add it is to drop something useful. Never thought I would play sorc without power surge, but here we are.

SirAndy

Copied from another thread, just gonna leave this here ...


Jumped on the PTS and made an exact copy of my live PetSorc. I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

I play this character mainly to solo veteran group content so i took her to solo veteran Fungal Grotto I because i have run this dungeon many, many times on live while farming for gear.

My setup is pretty simple:
Heavy attack lightning staff AOE based using the Clannfear to take aggro and to heal myself while i and my AOE's do the damage. I weave in light attacks and skills when my resources allow for it. Empowered Ward is my goto shield.

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

Bergzorn

SirAndy wrote: »

I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

They made some small adjustments to crit-% (away from the CP passive to the Major Prophecy buff or the light armor passive if I remember it right). No idea about the spell damage.

Regarding the rest, frantically spamming your ward while a full zerg bombards you with light attacks, snares, and the occasional CC? Welcome to PvP.

SirAndy

Bergzorn wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

They made some small adjustments to crit-% (away from the CP passive to the Major Prophecy buff or the light armor passive if I remember it right). No idea about the spell damage.

Regarding the rest, frantically spamming your ward while a full zerg bombards you with light attacks, snares, and the occasional CC? Welcome to PvP.

Yeah, just read about the crit changes, so that explains that.

As for the PvP aspect, just imagine all you just wrote but with only 40% of your current shields. Sounds like fun, eh?

ezio45

.

pattyLtd

SirAndy wrote: »

Copied from another thread, just gonna leave this here ...


Jumped on the PTS and made an exact copy of my live PetSorc. I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

I play this character mainly to solo veteran group content so i took her to solo veteran Fungal Grotto I because i have run this dungeon many, many times on live while farming for gear.

My setup is pretty simple:
Heavy attack lightning staff AOE based using the Clannfear to take aggro and to heal myself while i and my AOE's do the damage. I weave in light attacks and skills when my resources allow for it. Empowered Ward is my goto shield.

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

OMFG, i didnt realize they nerfed pets too, it was my very very slight hope to be able to keep use my backup sorc, she’s a pet build, guess not.

I am sure they have fixed the small bug with the staves targeting issue that we have since summerset though.
Because right now i have a really hard time working around the endless list of bugs, this is most annoying on for me.

I know thats bit off topic but imho they should be more carefull with changing so many things, they dont seem to understand the games code very well.

Bergzorn

SirAndy wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

They made some small adjustments to crit-% (away from the CP passive to the Major Prophecy buff or the light armor passive if I remember it right). No idea about the spell damage.

Regarding the rest, frantically spamming your ward while a full zerg bombards you with light attacks, snares, and the occasional CC? Welcome to PvP.

Yeah, just read about the crit changes, so that explains that.

As for the PvP aspect, just imagine all you just wrote but with only 40% of your current shields. Sounds like fun, eh?

Joke is on the Devs, I run around with 22k health and 26k magica in no-CP. A 40% cap is the least of my problems (if they fix the interaction with Battle Spirit).

I feel your pain for PvE. However, not being able to deal with all this incoming damage by using wards is exactly what the Devs wanted to achieve.

I used to tank a random normal now and then and was always happy to carry low-level players. I doubt I'll bother with this after the 40% cap. Not that it would be impossible, but it's probably not fun anymore given how hard some bosses hit.

Elwendryll

Sustain on a stamina sorcerer is very hard. Give us a stamina restoring overload. Thanks!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

pattyLtd wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Copied from another thread, just gonna leave this here ...


Jumped on the PTS and made an exact copy of my live PetSorc. I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

I play this character mainly to solo veteran group content so i took her to solo veteran Fungal Grotto I because i have run this dungeon many, many times on live while farming for gear.

My setup is pretty simple:
Heavy attack lightning staff AOE based using the Clannfear to take aggro and to heal myself while i and my AOE's do the damage. I weave in light attacks and skills when my resources allow for it. Empowered Ward is my goto shield.

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

OMFG, i didnt realize they nerfed pets too, it was my very very slight hope to be able to keep use my backup sorc, she’s a pet build, guess not.

I am sure they have fixed the small bug with the staves targeting issue that we have since summerset though.
Because right now i have a really hard time working around the endless list of bugs, this is most annoying on for me.

I know thats bit off topic but imho they should be more careful with changing so many things, they dont seem to understand the games code very well.

Actually, I think that is directly on topic and of course you are correct. ZOS has no subtlety. They hit the game with a sledgehammer every 3-6 months and wonder why its in pieces.

@SirAndy

Sorry man, that sucks. It's not my thing, but I love watching what you and others are able to do solo in this game, and of course, pets are vital to that. It was literally their one redeeming quality, and now its gone.

Also, public service announcement. If you havent cleared VMA and were considering pet sorc for your first try, might want to get on that sooner rather than later. People that know the arena wont care, but for first timers, these changes are going to hurt.

arasysb14_ESO

I tried VMA on PTS with exact same pet build and sets I have been using. Long story short, pets die all the time. On 2nd arena they are mostly useless since they are dead even before monsters spawn (unless you spam the switches).

Empowered shield goes down immediately as most of the instant damage is above 5k+, so half of the time Matriarch's heals are not there because it's either dead or I am out of magicka. Can't imagine how painful stages 7 and 9 would be with these shields.

Based on my initial experience, I am not planning on doing a full VMA run on PTS, I'd rather try to farm for my inferno staff I never got till nerfs go on live server. But even if I get a staff before Nerfmire, what will I be using it for anyway? I love playing glass cannon, always have but switched to pet sorcerer to to farm VMA. Now with these changes it makes no sense to even farm it.

I feel like after all these years I can only continue to play ESO like "story mode" and keep looking for other options.. Been playing MMOs for 16 years, never seen such clueless devs before. Enough is just enough. For those who say "adapt", games are meant to be enjoyed, not stressed about.

*hits alt + f4*

Vahrokh

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I tried VMA on PTS with exact same pet build and sets I have been using. Long story short, pets die all the time. On 2nd arena they are mostly useless since they are dead even before monsters spawn (unless you spam the switches).

Empowered shield goes down immediately as most of the instant damage is above 5k+, so half of the time Matriarch's heals are not there because it's either dead or I am out of magicka. Can't imagine how painful stages 7 and 9 would be with these shields.

Based on my initial experience, I am not planning on doing a full VMA run on PTS, I'd rather try to farm for my inferno staff I never got till nerfs go on live server. But even if I get a staff before Nerfmire, what will I be using it for anyway? I love playing glass cannon, always have but switched to pet sorcerer to to farm VMA. Now with these changes it makes no sense to even farm it.

I feel like after all these years I can only continue to play ESO like "story mode" and keep looking for other options.. Been playing MMOs for 16 years, never seen such clueless devs before. Enough is just enough. For those who say "adapt", games are meant to be enjoyed, not stressed about.

*hits alt + f4*

In the end, you need to sit down and think rationally.

That is, if you remove for a moment the "I am sort of addicted to the game" factor, you suddenly realize it's ZOS who needs you. Not the contrary.

Basically, what does a person normally do when they pay good money and a product turns to be wildly defective?
They return it and want their money back. And they tell about how bad is their experience to everyone they know.

If people learned to do the same with MMOs, the developers would stop throwing random darts at changes and to make people's life miserable for a year (until the next nerfs partial undo).

When Nerfmire will land on the live servers, I'll try what disaster they have done to pets. If it's anywhere as bad as Andy has described it, I'll certainly be the last guy on Earth to still give ZOS 1 penny.

Do they take 1 year to repair the immense damage they are about to do to our class?

No problem, I'll save 1 year worth of subscription. It's not me who need money. When friends will ask me about ESO, I won't be really motivated to push them to try it.

I still recall my previous MMO: the developers acted like ZOS, the general playerbase finally had enough of constant dramatic changes and nerfs, and now they have closed down since some years.

Natas013

I might be missing it, but I can’t find where they changed what bastion and shattering blows stars do in cp in light of these shield changes. I mean bastion is superfluous to anyone not running heavy and they surely don’t need to be tankier. Shattering blows is now overkill bordering on OP dealing with LA mag tunes.

BrightOblivion

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I tried VMA on PTS with exact same pet build and sets I have been using. Long story short, pets die all the time. On 2nd arena they are mostly useless since they are dead even before monsters spawn (unless you spam the switches).

Empowered shield goes down immediately as most of the instant damage is above 5k+, so half of the time Matriarch's heals are not there because it's either dead or I am out of magicka. Can't imagine how painful stages 7 and 9 would be with these shields.

Based on my initial experience, I am not planning on doing a full VMA run on PTS, I'd rather try to farm for my inferno staff I never got till nerfs go on live server. But even if I get a staff before Nerfmire, what will I be using it for anyway? I love playing glass cannon, always have but switched to pet sorcerer to to farm VMA. Now with these changes it makes no sense to even farm it.

I feel like after all these years I can only continue to play ESO like "story mode" and keep looking for other options.. Been playing MMOs for 16 years, never seen such clueless devs before. Enough is just enough. For those who say "adapt", games are meant to be enjoyed, not stressed about.

*hits alt + f4*

I did the same, more or less, and it was admittedly brutal. The ward honestly felt like it was made of tissue paper, and my familiar died far more times than I can count. Then I would go to respawn the familiar, hit that oh-so-fun cast time, and have a 50-50 shot of going splat before I finished.

Major pain points of the run, regarding the pet, were the boss of stage 2 (the spinny blades and the cannon shots into the air which still hit him), the boss of stage 4 (the pet slows out of the safe spot, or I go to heavy attack the sentry or adds, and he dies. Or he goes to attack the spider during the flame phase, and he dies), the entirety of stage 5 (because the water kills the pet over and over again), environmental damage in stage 6, the behemoth's roars in stage 7, and the lava geysers along the arena edge in stage 8.

After stage 8 round 4, I exited the arena, logged to character select, and deleted the test character I made for the experiment. There's really no point to continuing it to its conclusion.

@ZOS_Finn I understand that there are reasons pets aren't invulnerable in vMA, at least in the abstract (reasons exist). That said, however, they're dying far too much, which, in conjunction with the cast time that feels like an eternity in the middle of the fast-paced vMA combat, is incredibly frustrating and makes it where I'm skeptical that they're even useful in that content.

Add to that more player deaths than I care to count, my shield feeling like it's not even a defense even in conjunction with boundless storm and crit surge, and the fact that those people who are getting 600k scores in vMA will still get 600k scores because they don't use shields, and I'm honestly more frustrated with the arena than I've ever been, even when I was learning it the first time.

So thanks for that, I guess.

Feanor

It’s a bit funny actually. They make a 3 year old arena less accessible for players trying for their first clear with changes that are totally unnecessary. It’s really absurd.

kind_hero

About the sorc class I would ask the devs just one question: after your changes, in what way playing a magicka sorc feels different from the other classes, rewarding or fun?

Thanks!

edit: P.S. My alt is magicka sorc

coradaelu

Sorc is just a shell of a class now, before was and now with these changes will be on the bottom, this game has always been broken... almost every patch i see nerfs.. directly or not to sorcs, i played a lot in 1.4 since then the class is in declibe.. sorc was never op, people forgot the broken things in the game, like 50% reduction in dmg of harness apply on all shields and a simple Dot give infinite sustain or Sharpened trait was broken and gave you the 100% of spell pen... and for those things they nerf sorc again and again in the start, not because the class was OP it was the game broken, took years to solve it, currently i can have fun in cyrodill i can beat some good player and others not.. i really dont see the overperforming in that, cannot get really serious on these changes, we will see when "the class reworks" hit for now ZOS will nerf nosense again.

*Sorry for my bad grammar English.

Nicko_Lps

Vahrokh wrote: »

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

I tried VMA on PTS with exact same pet build and sets I have been using. Long story short, pets die all the time. On 2nd arena they are mostly useless since they are dead even before monsters spawn (unless you spam the switches).

Empowered shield goes down immediately as most of the instant damage is above 5k+, so half of the time Matriarch's heals are not there because it's either dead or I am out of magicka. Can't imagine how painful stages 7 and 9 would be with these shields.

Based on my initial experience, I am not planning on doing a full VMA run on PTS, I'd rather try to farm for my inferno staff I never got till nerfs go on live server. But even if I get a staff before Nerfmire, what will I be using it for anyway? I love playing glass cannon, always have but switched to pet sorcerer to to farm VMA. Now with these changes it makes no sense to even farm it.

I feel like after all these years I can only continue to play ESO like "story mode" and keep looking for other options.. Been playing MMOs for 16 years, never seen such clueless devs before. Enough is just enough. For those who say "adapt", games are meant to be enjoyed, not stressed about.

*hits alt + f4*

In the end, you need to sit down and think rationally.

That is, if you remove for a moment the "I am sort of addicted to the game" factor, you suddenly realize it's ZOS who needs you. Not the contrary.

Basically, what does a person normally do when they pay good money and a product turns to be wildly defective?
They return it and want their money back. And they tell about how bad is their experience to everyone they know.

If people learned to do the same with MMOs, the developers would stop throwing random darts at changes and to make people's life miserable for a year (until the next nerfs partial undo).

When Nerfmire will land on the live servers, I'll try what disaster they have done to pets. If it's anywhere as bad as Andy has described it, I'll certainly be the last guy on Earth to still give ZOS 1 penny.

Do they take 1 year to repair the immense damage they are about to do to our class?

No problem, I'll save 1 year worth of subscription. It's not me who need money. When friends will ask me about ESO, I won't be really motivated to push them to try it.

I still recall my previous MMO: the developers acted like ZOS, the general playerbase finally had enough of constant dramatic changes and nerfs, and now they have closed down since some years.

If i could give you 10 awesome's 10 insightful and 1m Agree i would.


A glassy build is being utilized from players with fast reaction to mechanics and knowledge of their pvp oponents skills+passives.

Now when ESO whinebaby's cry because they CANT dodge roll when a curse is being applied to them WE get cyrodiil transformed to WORLD OF TANKS just because people cant react fast and just because people DIE when using a glassy build.

Now the glassy build ZoS nerfed to the ground for magsorcs is not being nerfed for whineblades as they can TP+Cloak away with their 800 recovery ultra burst ganking glassy builds, but hey NERF THAT SORC

o_0

There isnt enough agrees, awesomes, insightfuls, that I can use to describe how accurate the majority of these posts are. in my 22 years of MMO experience I can honestly say ZOS is going down a bad path. I've seen too many games come and go, live and die, all due to developers poor decisions.

ruikkarikun

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett
Why pets easy dying in solo and immortall in group content. This is joke? You even don't let to play solo?

cpuScientist

Pets can be one barred sure if they remain until death. If not nah.

Elwendryll wrote: »

Sustain on a stamina sorcerer is very hard. Give us a stamina restoring overload. Thanks!

Yes please do this exact thing ZOS! @ZOS_Wrobel
Stamina restoring morph of overload and add the enhanced range to base skill. Thanks dear

RMerlin

Morgul667 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

BrightOblivion wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Great changes, 10/10, shields no longer negate 90% of itemization for both the user and the attacker. Mag sorc VS Mag sorc now incorporates spell resist, spell pen, crit chance, crit modifier, crit resist, et cetera. Cast time is gonna take some getting used to but the good players will adapt.

Why take away the overload bar though? That was fun and cool and unique to sorc, not a balance issue either, nobody was complaining about it.

If you're still talking cast times, you're two weeks behind (fortunately). It's still insta-cast, but an individual shield's strength tops out at 40% of max health.

As for overload, no idea. "Reasons", I guess.

Overload likely got the axe because no other class has a third health bar and they probably thought it was "OP".

The actual changes to overload are actually pretty good that help sorc's consistant DPS, so. Not too angrhy about that.

There were a fee complains that overload third bar was clunky so they probably just removed it....

Biggest complain AFAIK were other players claiming it was unfair that sorcerors could get a free third hotbar.

RMerlin

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The difference is, while his version was not only balls hard but inaccessable AF, he at least could design some good system fundementals.

I liked the original idea of having a diminishing return on stats with the presence of both soft and hard caps, as it forced people to better balance their character. It also limited the risks of power-creeps. I think they felt it was too "complicated" for newcomers (funny, it was fairly intuitive to me when I started playing back in beta), so it got removed around the time CP became a thing. Now, we have people almost always going all-in on one single attribute, and putting only a few trickles of points into the others.

RMerlin

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I mean, about the only sorc' ability on a PvP bar that is spammable is shield, lol.

That`s why I still love Infernal Guardian more than any other sets for my magsorc...

RMerlin

Maybe one possible solution is to give everyone a third bar, that would be limited to utility. Having to lose one slot for Rapids, or TWO SLOTS for any pet is pretty harsh. And with the Psijic Line adding 5 new abilities with no increase in hotbar space, that makes it hard to justify using any of these skills in a regular 2 hotbar setup (I was using one in my Overload bar).

RMerlin

Gnozo wrote: »

The changes to Overload just killed one identity of sorcs. Like shields also got deleted from sorcs identity it feels so generic playing this class now.

I'm one of them. My magsorc was largely built around Overload (even wearing the Elegant set). With these Overload changes, I will need to severely change my whole playstyle, or switch toon.

It's almost as if I were suddenly forced to change class. It's that drastic of a change for those of us who were relying on Overload for what it was, not just for a free hotbar.

Galarthor

Feanor wrote: »

It’s a bit funny actually. They make a 3 year old arena less accessible for players trying for their first clear with changes that are totally unnecessary. It’s really absurd.

Nothing about this update is funny. It's only sad.

BretonMage

SirAndy wrote: »

[
ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

I've been mulling this over for a day (and throughout my sleepless night), and I really think ZOS needs to reflect on whether they want to keep us solo players as customers. I know this is an MMO and therefore I have no right to demand things for what may well be a niche group, but I also imagine that many of us are solo players. We like it, it's something we find relaxing (while challenging, paradoxically) and fun. Do we want to be boxed into a role deemed acceptable by ZOS? I know I don't.

Not all of us are max CP either. Top-tier, max CP players can probably adapt to nerfs (will they? I cannot imagine it would be fun having to die a lot, and struggle with survivability while trying to keep up damage). But for the rest of us still learning and trying to get better, it will hit us really hard. If you lower shield strength to 40% AND take away the utility of the summon, what do we have left that we can use?

As a solo player, I need my shields, and I need my pet to draw aggro. If you let a boss/bosses and their adds whale on me and me alone with just 40% shields, combat is decidedly going to be Not Fun. And maybe even Not Possible.

ZOS, please reconsider the shield and pet changes in light of solo players. Thanks.

maboleth

+1 for pets needing better shield/survival in both pvp and pve.