PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Ranger209 · October 2018

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

If this is really the truth, that it is all about making healers feel more relevant in pve, then maybe the correct approach is to make shields work more like a magicka block where it doesn't absorb 100% of the damage in its pool, but mitigates like 80% or 90% of it. So at 80% if you have a 10k shield and get hit by a 3k, 3k, and 4k burst, the shield absorbs 8k of it while 2k of it actually makes its way through and affects your health bar. In this scenario you would still at this point have 2k left of mitigation left on the shield. In doing this you would not cap the shields at all, but instead allow for the health bar to take a small portion of unmitigated damage. At 90% obviously 1k would hit your healthbar while 9k would be mitigated and the shield would have 1k left on it. Sorcs would need some work done on self healing to make this viable for solo play perhaps. Shields would last a little longer, 10% or 20 % longer, but not mitigate 100% of the damage thrown their way.

I really think that something like this is the best solution, by now it's pretty obvious that the shield nerf was 100% targeted for PvE. Make it so that damage shields absorb between 75% - 90% of incoming damage affected by resistances/penetration and crit damage/crit resistances and then you can tweak stuff like shield strength, duration, cost, etc.

After that you can tweak stuff like surge, dark deal, passives, etc to increase healing to compensate for the damage passing through(and ofc for other magicka classes that might also need it)

These last changes like the health % cap and now making pets immune to damage in certain PvE content are just band aids to a problem that ZOS created in the first PTS patch.

Maybe they could tweek the bastion cp so that in addition to making the shields 0-25% pool increase it could also do a 0-15% absorption increase. This way at 0 in bastion a shield would absorb 75% of incoming damage and at 100 in bastion it would absorb 90% of incoming damage. Pair that with what it already does for strength of the shield.

Vahrokh · October 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's kinda obvious devs needs to take something away so they're choosing nerfing abilities.

If CP is the problem, instead of crippling the gameplay we love,
ZOS should rather abolish the ill-designed CP system.

[snip]

problem is the game is designed around it, look what happened with the removed the champoin points from morrowind. now no one can sustain. theyve been making content harder to keep up with it and they remove it and were all screwed. not to mention they have nerfed literally everything to the ground to keep up with it

Problem is that people got use to new easier playstyles so quickly they've forgot around what gameplay game was oroginally designed in 2014. It was harsh and punishing , sustain was designed to be hard same as survivality and people really needed to make build decisions instead of brainlesly going for full offensive stats. Everyone cried and still cries that Morrowind nerfed sustain but in reality even after Morrowind sustain was 10 times better then before Tamriel Unlimited. The problem is community is just concerned when there is lot of nerfs at once but is totally ok when we're getting hugely overbuffed which later causes issues. Morrowind nerfs were the resuls of constant buffs we were getting since Tamriel Unlimited release and constant power creep increase caused by that. At certain point champion points combined with constant addition of new better sets and game mechanics improvements started to make content too easy but people simply got used to it and when developer decided to bring game back to the roots with Morrowind everyone started to complain because everyone got used to new easier and faster playstyle. Champion points issue itself is much more complex and to truly balance the game there would be need of huge rework to CP system.

I perfectly recall how it was in 2014, even in beta.
Ignoring the bugs, quest bugs and pets weakness, everything else in ESO felt perfect.

BUT

I did not suffer from regen / sustain at all and I could play smoothly as silk. Which is what originally made ESO a great, AAA MMO.

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

[edited to remove quote]

JobooAGS · October 2018

What about instead of a shield cap, reduce the coefficient of shields from .35* max mag to .2* max mag or something and remove battle spirit from shields

Galarthor · October 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sadly they nerfed NPCs so you could solo more than 2 of them (3 of them = you'd die even in simple outworld!) and nerfed Molag Baal to pulp.

Since 2014, ESO is only going DOWN, class gameplay and fun speaking. Only NBs started very mediocre and lackluster and became better. Even PvP was better and way more fluid.

After getting the main quest done on my main in 2014 I finally did the main quest line again on an alt a while ago and I was shocked how badly they nerfed everything about it. Molag Bal doesn't even deal damage anymore. [snip] is up with that? How *** has your player base have to be that it warrants a final boss that deals literally 0 damage. This is so symptomatic for the entire development of ESO.

Balance-wise I think they did a good job until recently (if your ignore the Morrowind regen nerf). True they sucked a lot of fun out of the builds / classes, but at least it was fairly balanced. However, the last 2 updates they started not only making classes/builds completely unviable, but also to suck out the last remaining fun that was in them. So nowadays it's neither balanced not fun. At least in the past we had one of them - in the beginning the fun, later on the balance.

[edited for profanity bypass]

karekiz · October 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sorcs are MAGES and summoners and none of those classes have "actual heals" in any game.

Twilight matriarch is quite a beastly heal. The only issue is the pet would die over and over, thus making you have to spend 1 second cast time to resummon and heal again.

Pets are supposed to become immune now....so technically sorc healers just got an insane buff.

Biro123 · October 2018

karekiz wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sorcs are MAGES and summoners and none of those classes have "actual heals" in any game.

Twilight matriarch is quite a beastly heal. The only issue is the pet would die over and over, thus making you have to spend 1 second cast time to resummon and heal again.

Pets are supposed to become immune now....so technically sorc healers just got an insane buff.

In theory, but I understand that sorc' healers also rely heavily on their overload bar...

ezio45 · October 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

So did we hear if shattering blows and oblivion damage sets are still going to be in the game?

Also, I've finally accepted that I'm fine with being a glass cannon. That means I'll melt everyone and die easy, right? That's the trade off, right? So I get to completely melt the stamwarden that will dawnbreaker me to death in a second, right? What about the healplar, I get to gank him too since I'm easily killed, right? That's the logic, right?

Can't wait to just choose pure offense over survival. It will definitely let me kill heavy armor opponents who can do the very thing everyone complains sorcs do, right? So excited.

except sorc isnt a glass cannon to begin with, out pvp dmg is pretty poor

He's aware and being sarcastic about it. Of course, he's also right.
Sorcs are all glass now, but since the burst output doesn't justify the burst being backloaded and easily-avoidable, we're nothing cannon.

ok my b, never know these days lol

Vahrokh · October 2018

karekiz wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sorcs are MAGES and summoners and none of those classes have "actual heals" in any game.

Twilight matriarch is quite a beastly heal. The only issue is the pet would die over and over, thus making you have to spend 1 second cast time to resummon and heal again.

Pets are supposed to become immune now....so technically sorc healers just got an insane buff.

I did not ask for an healing pet, I'd rather have proper shields than a pet that takes 2 slots, dies to a sneeze and slows me down while I run and takes 2 seconds or so to cast and heal. Not 1 second, because if you immediately use matron after summoning, you resummon her (and waste magicka) instead of healing.

Last but not least, pets are not immune at world bosses nor Arena. They are OK as of today, but on PTS they die immediately and thus are useless.

BretonMage · October 2018

karekiz wrote: »

Pets are supposed to become immune now....so technically sorc healers just got an insane buff.

They are not immune to damage in single arena, or against world bosses. Also they will lose their ability to draw aggro. It's only a buff if you *only* do dungeons with groups, really. For solo content, it's a nerf. Another nerf, that is.

Illuvatarr · October 2018

Class sucks. They have nerfed everything on it. Some mag Sorcs are holding out playing the current spec and not internalizing that is going away. Every class has a counter to Sorcs. The Sorc has counters to no one. Mag classes from other classes do better sustained burst dps and don’t have the counters in place against its delivery. This group of devs have taken the most important element out of this game....it isn’t fun anymore. They have made pve either too easy or silly/based off of one shot mechanics. They have added the champion point system which basically has destroyed the game due to power scaling and poor implementation of its elements to every facet of the game. The pvp used to be amazing but now every class can do everything and classes with skill lines built for tanking/survivability can now also burst like a Sorc or better without the survivability hit. The heavy armor meta is ridiculous and should have been changed a year ago.

The very fact they are even considering adding the Soldier of Anguish set and the fact ZOS continues to augment stamina nightblades should indicate to the playerbase that they are listening to the wrong people about balance. More importantly, it shows a lack of forethought, an inability to learn from past mistakes and unfortunately, stupidity/arrogance; a brutal combination that consistently creates disaster. (hate to say that but is only way to describe it).

It’s silly and it will continue to become worse as long as the current development team is in place. I gave pet Sorc an honest shake. I really did. Pets die constantly in pvp. They charge into keep doors and siege instakills them. Pets don’t stay on your target. The matriarch burst heal isn’t enough to help with Sorc survivability in pvp. It’s also broken. The familiar dies from one dps round from any class. The AI is horrendous and antiquated.

Game sucks. It was at launch the best mmo developed.

Now the fun is missing. That isn’t just due to the Sorc changes; the entire game is broken at its core due to the inherent problems in pve. Vote with your dollar and don’t encourage this type of behavior from ZOS. Companies make changes based on earnings per share.

Vahrokh · October 2018

BretonMage wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

Pets are supposed to become immune now....so technically sorc healers just got an insane buff.

They are not immune to damage in single arena, or against world bosses. Also they will lose their ability to draw aggro. It's only a buff if you *only* do dungeons with groups, really. For solo content, it's a nerf. Another nerf, that is.

Yes, and since I have trials twice a week, the rest of the week the only thing I do is arena and world bosses.

Now what shall I do, if I cannot do neither? Just unsub?

bardx86 · October 2018

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Class sucks. They have nerfed everything on it. Some mag Sorcs are holding out playing the current spec and not internalizing that is going away. Every class has a counter to Sorcs. The Sorc has counters to no one. Mag classes from other classes do better sustained burst dps and don’t have the counters in place against its delivery. This group of devs have taken the most important element out of this game....it isn’t fun anymore. They have made pve either too easy or silly/based off of one shot mechanics. They have added the champion point system which basically has destroyed the game due to power scaling and poor implementation of its elements to every facet of the game. The pvp used to be amazing but now every class can do everything and classes with skill lines built for tanking/survivability can now also burst like a Sorc or better without the survivability hit. The heavy armor meta is ridiculous and should have been changed a year ago.

The very fact they are even considering adding the Soldier of Anguish set and the fact ZOS continues to augment stamina nightblades should indicate to the playerbase that they are listening to the wrong people about balance. More importantly, it shows a lack of forethought, an inability to learn from past mistakes and unfortunately, stupidity/arrogance; a brutal combination that consistently creates disaster. (hate to say that but is only way to describe it).

It’s silly and it will continue to become worse as long as the current development team is in place. I gave pet Sorc an honest shake. I really did. Pets die constantly in pvp. They charge into keep doors and siege instakills them. Pets don’t stay on your target. The matriarch burst heal isn’t enough to help with Sorc survivability in pvp. It’s also broken. The familiar dies from one dps round from any class. The AI is horrendous and antiquated.

Game sucks. It was at launch the best mmo developed.

Now the fun is missing. That isn’t just due to the Sorc changes; the entire game is broken at its core due to the inherent problems in pve. Vote with your dollar and don’t encourage this type of behavior from ZOS. Companies make changes based on earnings per share.

this

ShadowProc · October 2018

Sorc will be fine for pvp. There are some great builds. Just need to change our way of thinking. Or I should say actual think about defense instead of just dumping everything into one stat. Cast time would have been to difficult to overcome but the shield change as is fine.

Biro123 · October 2018

ShadowProc wrote: »

Sorc will be fine for pvp. There are some great builds. Just need to change our way of thinking. Or I should say actual think about defense instead of just dumping everything into one stat. Cast time would have been to difficult to overcome but the shield change as is fine.

Please share.

Irylia · October 2018

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

swirve · October 2018

Remove Sorc for PvP so we can have it back for PvE without all the complaining...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

Irylia wrote: »

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

That is pretty much my list as well.
1. Removing frags stun is what starting this year long train wreck. Frag stun was never OP and RC in its current from is garbage.
2. Streak is one of those skills that I feel like I have to run, but it is so clunky and expensive. It is completely nullified by gap closers, especially on uneven terrain. It is a very poor escape tool, and the stun is clunky to use offensively, as it require a mid air 180 to attempt to land a follow up frag.
3. I have been playing w/o surge for the last 2 weeks just to brace myself for not having room for it next patch when I am forced to slot boundless. What you realize very quickly when you take it off your bar is that it's a *** poor heal to begin with. Just stinks beacause it forces you into spell power pots if you want to actually kill anything with a pulse.
4. They need to do something. We currently have 2 useless shield morphs and a useless CP tree if this goes live as is.

maboleth · October 2018

I like the current shield change + 20% for pets!!!!!!!!!! Thanks ZOS!!!

Tonturri · October 2018

Irylia wrote: »

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

This + adding in some extra functionality to skills would be enough to keep me around. it's disgusting how our Overload bar has just up and disappeared and we get zilch. 5 skills just up and gone on the class whose skills do the least amount of additional stuff. ZOS probably saw 'Oh god everybody is using overload, GOTTA NERF' without realizing that we used it DESPITE it's clunkiness because we'd be gimped without it.

ZOS_JesC · October 2018

Greetings, we've removed several comments that were baiting and derailing the thread. This is a reminder to keep all comments constructive and civil. Thank you.

Andferne · October 2018

Irylia wrote: »

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

I would add in that the bonus magic/stamina from Daedric armor needs to be implemented as a passive.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

Andferne wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

1. Frag stun
2. Streak fatigue + cost increase removed
3. Surge heal reverted back to a % of the crit
4. Ward minor protection or a cost reduction after all these nerfs in potential size.

Anything less than the above changes is murder to the class.

I would add in that the bonus magic/stamina from Daedric armor needs to be implemented as a passive.

While I dont disagree, I think we are starting to get nit picky. Sorcs need a decent CC, sustain help, reasonable heals, and a class defining defense mechanism in place first. I think this list is very good on the sorcs biggest pain points. If I were to add anything else, it would be cramped bar space with multiple toggles and now, a lack of an OL bar.

Once we get them functioning again like they are supposed to, then we can debate buffs like that.

Tonturri · October 2018

Does Crushing Weapon double dip into battle spirit - damage is halved so heal is lower, and then heal is halved again? I saw a small buff to this morph in the patch notes and (for whatever reason) a nerf to Elemental Weapon. Seems like at least Crushing could use some love if it's suffering twice from BS. Stam sorc could really use the indirect love, too.

BrightOblivion · October 2018

So I did some more testing with hardened ward now that the PTS is up, and I'm even more confused. Apparently, though, this bug may be attached to max mag, and no longer has anything to do with pets. Here's why I think that:

After getting to 47,332 magicka, even with a pet summoned, I cast hardened ward and received the (50% of max health) shield, with a shield the same size going to the pet.

At 47,436 magicka, only 104 magicka more (done by changing the divines on my max magicka gloves to infused), I cast hardened ward and received no shield. I unsummoned the volatile familiar, and even took that skill off my bar, cast the ward, and no shield. So something's happening in that 104 magicka that, all other things being equal, is breaking hardened ward completely, to the point where I cast it, I lose the magicka for it, but I receive no shield whatsoever.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to lower my max mag even more gradually to pinpoint where hardened ward breaks, if indeed this is the cause.

Alaztor91 · October 2018

Well, at least now the Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic morphs are not 100% useless. An increase to 60% HP cap would have been more appropriate imo but I guess that there is still room for tweaking.

However it seems that Bastion cp is still useless if your shield already reaches your 40%(or 50%) HP cap without it, any further changes planned for it?

ku5h · October 2018

It's hilarious what ZoS managed to do here. Basically to make your shields worthwhile using, you have to run high mitigation, high crit resist, high HP build at which point your shields become redundant.
I mean this is really the art of balance. lol

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2018

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Well, at least now the Hardened Ward and Dampen Magic morphs are not 100% useless. An increase to 60% HP cap would have been more appropriate imo but I guess that there is still room for tweaking.

However it seems that Bastion cp is still useless if your shield already reaches your 40%(or 50%) HP cap without it, any further changes planned for it?

At this point, I am just going to slide all my CP from Bastion into Resistant. My guess is Bastion wont get changed this patch.

Bastion either needs to work towards increasing the health cap, or it needs to reduce damage done against shields (or just needs to be scrapped completely for something else).

Cronopoly · October 2018

Im not quitting yet but have serious reservations about Light Armor play as it looks gutted as proposed.

There was a reason succesful players stacked shields while wearing LA, you had no choice other than be 1 shot in pvp.

A measured approach would have been to only do one adjustment like crit on shields or no stacking....

Been here since launch and sometimes tried to use 1 shield in cp pvp...It 100% of the time forced you into 100% defense. Stacking gave 3 or 4 seconds for sorcs time delayed combo. Period.

ruikkarikun · October 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett

Feedback for PTS Patch Notes v4.2.3:
I see zero buffs for sorc. Bad sustain, weak shields, low dps, bad selfheal, zero changes. You just want to make class dead and very very weak. I can't anymore sorry.

I think I will try Guild Wars 2.
Good luck guys, who tried to defend sorcerer but it's pointless.

Tannus15 · October 2018

Sooooo, no sorc sustain changes. I guess that's it for us this patch.

Lots of nerfs and some band-aid fixes for pets?
Can't say I'm overwhelmed...