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Magplar PvP
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Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭Hvy Shackle+Rattle or Hvy Shackle+Sload´s (all inpen tri-stats). Trinkets 2xinfused regen 1x magic spell dam.1 -
Navras✭✭✭<...>
I run only 5 heavy, have done since.. I don't actually remember.
<...>
Thanks buddie, appreciated your suggestions.
I was thinking about a shack build, but innate looks interesting as well.
About monster i do like a lot zaan\skoria, I guess slime might be interesting as a "constant pressure" option
cheers
EU-PC
cp 1500+
Flawless Conqueror & Spirit Slayer
Main: Templar
Alt: Stamblade, StamDK0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Trash pots for life
So I was trying Riposte malubeth axiom heavy frost staff resto
Frost to stack snares with time stop
Then resto with panacea healing rune mist form and extended
Was thinking Swift x3 making mist form Uber escape and keeping sweeps on targets
I will be done researching Swift on Rings and Necklass in a few days and have several sets of jewelry to experiment on with Swift x3 + Elusive Mist...
I will definitely test it thoroughly and make a thread about the results...
Off the top of my head though I am betting the following will be one the best (if not THE best) combination for consistently getting the most escape capability out of Elusive Mist:
Chudan x2...
Spectre's Eye x5...
Vampire Cloak x5...
Swift x3...
Accelerating Drain...
Wild Running...
All of that will combine to give your Mist Form:
8255 extra Resists (100% uptime)...
Major Evasion (50% uptime)...
Minor Protection (100% uptime)...
42% more movement bonus on top of Mist Forms 30% movement bonus (72% movement bonus Mist Form total)...
x4 Max Health Bonus...
The above should (in theory) give you phenomenal survivability while in Mist Form...
I cant wait to test it out!
Use Desert Rose and 5 heavy(anything) then you can basically mist form forever. You can recoup the damage loss because Desert Rose gives lolsustain.
@DrInsanity666 it’s easier to stack Spell damage on magplar because you get Minor Sorcery with great uptime and no class magika bonuses.
@xGhost91x Overwhelming Surge is better than Spinners in most situations because it offers so much utility. It allows you to transfer from defensive cycles to offensive cycles much more fluidly since you start putting pressure and proc Skoria while on defense
Desert Rose is good, but doesn't make your Mist Form as tanky as some of the alternatives do...
Due to deminishing returns... Your 8kish resistance or whatever gives you an additional 3% mitigation total in mist form, your minor protection gives you 1.76% (let's just say 2) more mitigation.
So in mist form those effects you listed give a grand total of 5% damage mitigation. Now the speed is definitely worth while
How are you coming up with 3% for Chudan?
Chudan's benefits stack directly with your base resists then Mist Form mitigates 75% of that, so you should receive the full 12.5% mitigation from wearing Chudan while in Mist Form...
This post represents a gross misunderstanding of relatively simple math.
Nope...
It may represent a misunderstanding on the games formula for calculating mitigation however...
If I am understanding @Waffennacht correctly, he's saying Mist Forms mitigation is calculated 1st, then your resists after that; I thought it was the reverse...
It's multiplicative, meaning it doesn't matter which is calculated first
I.e. 10,000 hit, 50% armor mitigation = 5,000. Then 75% from mist form takes it to 1,250.
Which is the same as 10,000, mist form first 75% = 2,500, then the armor mitigation 50% = 1,250
It's a multiplicative system, meaning the more mitigation sources, the less over all they do
No, it means more over all and the less each source contributes as you add more sources.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Trash pots for life
So I was trying Riposte malubeth axiom heavy frost staff resto
Frost to stack snares with time stop
Then resto with panacea healing rune mist form and extended
Was thinking Swift x3 making mist form Uber escape and keeping sweeps on targets
I will be done researching Swift on Rings and Necklass in a few days and have several sets of jewelry to experiment on with Swift x3 + Elusive Mist...
I will definitely test it thoroughly and make a thread about the results...
Off the top of my head though I am betting the following will be one the best (if not THE best) combination for consistently getting the most escape capability out of Elusive Mist:
Chudan x2...
Spectre's Eye x5...
Vampire Cloak x5...
Swift x3...
Accelerating Drain...
Wild Running...
All of that will combine to give your Mist Form:
8255 extra Resists (100% uptime)...
Major Evasion (50% uptime)...
Minor Protection (100% uptime)...
42% more movement bonus on top of Mist Forms 30% movement bonus (72% movement bonus Mist Form total)...
x4 Max Health Bonus...
The above should (in theory) give you phenomenal survivability while in Mist Form...
I cant wait to test it out!
Use Desert Rose and 5 heavy(anything) then you can basically mist form forever. You can recoup the damage loss because Desert Rose gives lolsustain.
@DrInsanity666 it’s easier to stack Spell damage on magplar because you get Minor Sorcery with great uptime and no class magika bonuses.
@xGhost91x Overwhelming Surge is better than Spinners in most situations because it offers so much utility. It allows you to transfer from defensive cycles to offensive cycles much more fluidly since you start putting pressure and proc Skoria while on defense
Desert Rose is good, but doesn't make your Mist Form as tanky as some of the alternatives do...
Due to deminishing returns... Your 8kish resistance or whatever gives you an additional 3% mitigation total in mist form, your minor protection gives you 1.76% (let's just say 2) more mitigation.
So in mist form those effects you listed give a grand total of 5% damage mitigation. Now the speed is definitely worth while
How are you coming up with 3% for Chudan?
Chudan's benefits stack directly with your base resists then Mist Form mitigates 75% of that, so you should receive the full 12.5% mitigation from wearing Chudan while in Mist Form...
This post represents a gross misunderstanding of relatively simple math.
Nope...
It may represent a misunderstanding on the games formula for calculating mitigation however...
If I am understanding @Waffennacht correctly, he's saying Mist Forms mitigation is calculated 1st, then your resists after that; I thought it was the reverse...
It's multiplicative, meaning it doesn't matter which is calculated first
I.e. 10,000 hit, 50% armor mitigation = 5,000. Then 75% from mist form takes it to 1,250.
Which is the same as 10,000, mist form first 75% = 2,500, then the armor mitigation 50% = 1,250
It's a multiplicative system, meaning the more mitigation sources, the less over all they do
No, it means more over all and the less each source contributes as you add more sources.
I meant over-all from said source.
Not like the grand total goes down.
Awkward wording I agree.
But I should say... Something like...
"For each source of mitigation added, the mitigation provided by the individual source is reduced"
A lot longer for sure, but is more clear0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭In axiom shackle I use crescent, it's not easy to land, but does very well in no cp bgs. I switch to dbos or sa in cp.Edited by Brutusmax1mus on August 8, 2018 8:28PM0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.2 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
IDK about that. Most pigeonhole into destro staff and DW for main damage, and resto/snb for defense.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
IDK about that. Most pigeonhole into destro staff and DW for main damage, and resto/snb for defense.
That's 4 different weapon types (5 if you include 2h). That's as much as any mag class, unless you're seeing a lot of bow-wielding magsorcs running around.2 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
By that logic every single class is diverse as they can do all those things too except other classes also have top performing builds.
Then by your quoted standard why mention templars are diverse when all classes are diverse by your definition?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig...0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭@Dredlord you’re drunk if you think 5 Surge 5 Sload 2 Skoria in heavy isn’t competitive with everything. Can sub Durok’s in place of either of those as well. Same with Shackle. Same with Caluurion.
I'm sorry was that an argument for or against diversity?
Because those sets perform better on other classes....
Sounds like you made my point for me, if you arent using the same meta sets everyone else is then you are not competitive with "everything".
That is NOT diversity.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Id say the only thing templars aren't competitive in pvp wise is burst based around ultimates. You give a templar unblockable, undodgable stun and they can burst 1 shot like the rest of the classes with meteor though. Not like it's hardEdited by Brutusmax1mus on August 8, 2018 11:01PM0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭For the love of God fix how hard it is to hit with crescent sweep too. My shalk dbos hits practically half a tower. Cresent seems like my *** is longer.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Oh oh...
Its too early for me to make a full thread about Swift on a Magplar (I have more testing to do), but I will say this, the Swift Trait synergies better with my Magplar escape idea than I ever expected...
It absolutely gives you TRUE escape capability...
The days of using Mist to delay the inevitable? Unless you get yourself into a really bad situation, then those days are over...
Now that I've tasted Swift, I don't know if I can go back to Arcane x3 for open world play..Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on August 8, 2018 11:17PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s1 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
IDK about that. Most pigeonhole into destro staff and DW for main damage, and resto/snb for defense.
Templars run snb, dw, And destro on their front bar. Meanwhile you’re more than likely to see the other mag classes run destro.
0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Imagine moving faster than someone Sprinting and using Major Expedition...
Now imagine moving that fast while simutaneosly blocking with Major Evasion up...
That's what you essentially have with my escape idea on a Magplar with Swift x3...
It's insane...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
By that logic every single class is diverse as they can do all those things too except other classes also have top performing builds.
Then by your quoted standard why mention templars are diverse when all classes are diverse by your definition?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig...
When is the last time you seen a dw magblade or a snb magblade for an example? A Stam dk that’s not running snb or a sorc that’s not destro /resto? Meanwhile you’re likely to see a magplar running dw, destro or snb. You’re purposely missing the point just to argue.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Imagine moving faster than someone Sprinting and using Major Expedition...
Now imagine moving that fast while simutaneosly blocking with Major Evasion up...
That's what you essentially have with my escape idea on a Magplar with Swift x3...
It's insane...
Lol, there's a few threads about how awesome swift is.
Only PIA is getting transmutation crystals. I've already gone through a couple hundred0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Imagine moving faster than someone Sprinting and using Major Expedition...
Now imagine moving that fast while simutaneosly blocking with Major Evasion up...
That's what you essentially have with my escape idea on a Magplar with Swift x3...
It's insane...
Lol, there's a few threads about how awesome swift is.
Only PIA is getting transmutation crystals. I've already gone through a couple hundred
Oh, I must have missed them...
Well, I'm with you on the crystals; I ran through 250 of them today and now I need about 200 more...lol.
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »@Mr_Nobody with all due respect, I don't think that's even remotely true.
These are the builds I've found with Rattlecage+Shackle(using that plus 1 Domi 1 Groth as a control). All of these builds gain 1700 HP over Shackle+Amber, here's what they sacrifice.
This one is just a direct copy of the Shackle+Amber with Rattlecage subbed out and Race Against Time added(its the most available damage to add which is the easiest way to make a direct comparisson). It has 200 more effective spell damage at the expense of 400 Magika Recovery and 400 Stam recovery.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79147
This one is gearing to the same level of Magika Recovery. It's got 200 less effective Spell Power and 400 less Stam recovery than Shackle+Amber.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79149
And this one has the same amount of Magika and Stam sustain but loses 600 effective Spell Power.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79151
And Amber is arguably about the 3rd or 4th best choice.
@casparian sometimes groth procs when I'm on defense since my source of Major Prophecy is a DoT. Sometimes it doesn't proc early enough in the burst window to matter. Also, the max stam on this build is uncomfortably low for me despite the insane stam regen because it does limit the amount of time you're able to hard turtle with block and makes you more reliant on Mist Form. As I've mentioned, I feel like being forced to go into Mist Form is a loss for me.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79153
@Brutusmax1mus here's your suggested build, it loses 600 effective Spell Damage and 400 stam recovery in order to gain 3.3k max Stam. That's about 20% longer blocking time but 40% longer between being able to block-turtle and a significant loss in damage. I mean, I understand what you're saying. I think you can easily swap bats for destro and run whatever skill you like in place of drain for small group play since, let's be honest, it's enough sustain without Drain if you're playing carefully. Radiant is also a flex spot you can easily replace with anything, its not even getting buffed until next patch and even then its arguable how important a single target execute is. Even Sweeps is a flex since it doesn't always function properly and is downright outperformed by Elemental Weapons in some situations or you can run Force Pulse/Crushing Shock for the destro passives and run Bats front bar to get the offensive healing.
@Lexxypwns i was just sayingTheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »
To be clear, my only issue with Rattlecage is that other sets exist that give more damage and there are utility sets that offer more utility.
For example, Overwhelming Surge gives you more damage than Rattlecage 5pc just on the 2-4pc and the 5pc is insane. Julianos and Spinners also offer a lot more damage, hell Spinners without Major Sorcery is within 2% of Rattlecage. Shackle offers 90% of the damage and also adds magika and stam sustain. Even Seducer adds enough sustain that you can easily recoup the difference in damage with jewelry glyphs.
Now, the argument for Rattlecage is that the utility gained by the skill slot will allow either more damage(an extra DoT) or more defense/utility. However, no DoT except Blockade adds comparable damage to Overwhelming Surge and they also require more micro management in your offensive rotation. Also, since I run Elemental Drain on all my offensive Magplar builds entropy gives me a guaranteed Minor Magikasteal proc even when I’m forced to turtle.
Imo, the only arguement for Rattlecage is “I already farmed it, it’s already gold, I don’t want to farm anything else”
The argument for Rattle cage is that major sorcery is % based & we already have 278x2 spell dmg from 2 infused spell dmg rings + the sp dmg from rattlecage
Yeah, you’re missing the point. Nobody plays without major sorcery on their mag builds unless they’re trash.
The question becomes: Does the skill slot I’m saving offer enough to offset the inadequate damage I’m getting from this set.
There’s basically never a case on Magplar that adding that additional skill slot creates a superior overall build than just wearing a damage set that actually supplies good damage.
You’re talking about dedicating 5 pieces of gear(and it has to be on both bars) to get 358 Spell damage and 1.5k health. Julianos offers only 60 less Spell damage and gives you 1k magika and 6% crit chance. Spinners gives 100 less Spell damage but also adds 1k Magika and 5.2% penetration. Overwhelming Surge offers 100 less Spell damage but adds 1k magika and an absurdly strong proc which can increase your damage against a specific target by 8%. Spell Power Cure offers 29 more Spell damage and 2k max magika and only needs to be on a single bar. Shackle offers 229 less Spell damage but adds 2k Mag 2k Stam and a line of recovery for each of them. Amber offers 229 spell damage less but adds 3% crit 1k Magika and 250 each Stam and Mag recovery.
Rattlecage is super inefficient and if you’re running it you will have a significantly lower concentration of stats compared to the other options. In addition you also lose out on the Max Mag and Mag recovery that Entropy offers which pushes the relative damage offered by Rattlecage even lower.
Everyone is entitled to run whatever they like, but that doesn’t mean it’s efficient. It also doesn’t mean people should post janky builds that have a significant disadvantage against efficient high level builds in a thread where someone is asking for help. We’re taking about an absolute bottom tier damage set and people are in here recommending it, it’s just absurd how bad Rattlecage is relative to your other options.
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78580 Show me the Rattlecage build that’s even close to these stats.
I mean I think you’re exaggerating a bit to say it’s a bottom tier set. It’s a damage set that’s easy to use and plays well for a lot of people that would like to have an extra ability. And as far as the OP goes, he said he feels squishy. I don’t think a 22k health build like that would be what he’s after. I dunno though. Great build either way.
I just used real numbers to list off 7 sets that all vary from slightly better to vastly superior and that didn’t include: Caluurion, Winterborn, any defensive sets, Necro, etc. Rattlecage so so far down the list.
22k Health is nothing to sneeze at when you’ve got near limitless sustain. This build has more defense, healing, and health than light armor with Wizard’s. It’s also got higher tooltips and access to more viable defensive choices and much easier resetting of fights. Did you see the build he said was squishy before you tried to reference this one not being tacky enough?
So in the build you posted it basically boils down to if you value 250 mag and stam recovery vs an extra skill like total dark or time stop if you use rattlecage right?
You won’t hit 41k mag and 4K Spell damage subbing Rattle for Amber. So I value the higher damage AND sustain over the skill slot.
You can’t run Shackle+Cage and 3x Spell damage glyphs and apprentice, you won’t be able to sustain it because you can’t afford to use Clockwork instead of tri-stat.
You can run wm or ccf with shackle if you tristat 3 big and triune rings. That will give you the extra 3k stam you need in addition to shackle with about 750 stam regen before pots and continuous. Still wouldnt be going 3 spell dmg and apprentice though personally unless you're in small group and cp campaigns.
I need to protect my wife so i triglyph and triune everything. But im not a "heal bot " as I've been called im too many streams.
@Brutusmax1mus
Who are you in game?
You claim to know my character, but I have no clue who yours is...
Message it to me, if you don't want it to be public...
BrutusNOMZ
I faintly recall that name...
Are you Red?
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
By that logic every single class is diverse as they can do all those things too except other classes also have top performing builds.
Then by your quoted standard why mention templars are diverse when all classes are diverse by your definition?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig...
When is the last time you seen a dw magblade or a snb magblade for an example? A Stam dk that’s not running snb or a sorc that’s not destro /resto? Meanwhile you’re likely to see a magplar running dw, destro or snb. You’re purposely missing the point just to argue.
Actually, funny you mention dw magblade and destro resto magdk. I have each specced that way right now. They both out perform my templar currently...
Stop trolling or be a learner. You're done now.1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »@Mr_Nobody with all due respect, I don't think that's even remotely true.
These are the builds I've found with Rattlecage+Shackle(using that plus 1 Domi 1 Groth as a control). All of these builds gain 1700 HP over Shackle+Amber, here's what they sacrifice.
This one is just a direct copy of the Shackle+Amber with Rattlecage subbed out and Race Against Time added(its the most available damage to add which is the easiest way to make a direct comparisson). It has 200 more effective spell damage at the expense of 400 Magika Recovery and 400 Stam recovery.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79147
This one is gearing to the same level of Magika Recovery. It's got 200 less effective Spell Power and 400 less Stam recovery than Shackle+Amber.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79149
And this one has the same amount of Magika and Stam sustain but loses 600 effective Spell Power.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79151
And Amber is arguably about the 3rd or 4th best choice.
@casparian sometimes groth procs when I'm on defense since my source of Major Prophecy is a DoT. Sometimes it doesn't proc early enough in the burst window to matter. Also, the max stam on this build is uncomfortably low for me despite the insane stam regen because it does limit the amount of time you're able to hard turtle with block and makes you more reliant on Mist Form. As I've mentioned, I feel like being forced to go into Mist Form is a loss for me.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=79153
@Brutusmax1mus here's your suggested build, it loses 600 effective Spell Damage and 400 stam recovery in order to gain 3.3k max Stam. That's about 20% longer blocking time but 40% longer between being able to block-turtle and a significant loss in damage. I mean, I understand what you're saying. I think you can easily swap bats for destro and run whatever skill you like in place of drain for small group play since, let's be honest, it's enough sustain without Drain if you're playing carefully. Radiant is also a flex spot you can easily replace with anything, its not even getting buffed until next patch and even then its arguable how important a single target execute is. Even Sweeps is a flex since it doesn't always function properly and is downright outperformed by Elemental Weapons in some situations or you can run Force Pulse/Crushing Shock for the destro passives and run Bats front bar to get the offensive healing.
@Lexxypwns i was just sayingTheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »
To be clear, my only issue with Rattlecage is that other sets exist that give more damage and there are utility sets that offer more utility.
For example, Overwhelming Surge gives you more damage than Rattlecage 5pc just on the 2-4pc and the 5pc is insane. Julianos and Spinners also offer a lot more damage, hell Spinners without Major Sorcery is within 2% of Rattlecage. Shackle offers 90% of the damage and also adds magika and stam sustain. Even Seducer adds enough sustain that you can easily recoup the difference in damage with jewelry glyphs.
Now, the argument for Rattlecage is that the utility gained by the skill slot will allow either more damage(an extra DoT) or more defense/utility. However, no DoT except Blockade adds comparable damage to Overwhelming Surge and they also require more micro management in your offensive rotation. Also, since I run Elemental Drain on all my offensive Magplar builds entropy gives me a guaranteed Minor Magikasteal proc even when I’m forced to turtle.
Imo, the only arguement for Rattlecage is “I already farmed it, it’s already gold, I don’t want to farm anything else”
The argument for Rattle cage is that major sorcery is % based & we already have 278x2 spell dmg from 2 infused spell dmg rings + the sp dmg from rattlecage
Yeah, you’re missing the point. Nobody plays without major sorcery on their mag builds unless they’re trash.
The question becomes: Does the skill slot I’m saving offer enough to offset the inadequate damage I’m getting from this set.
There’s basically never a case on Magplar that adding that additional skill slot creates a superior overall build than just wearing a damage set that actually supplies good damage.
You’re talking about dedicating 5 pieces of gear(and it has to be on both bars) to get 358 Spell damage and 1.5k health. Julianos offers only 60 less Spell damage and gives you 1k magika and 6% crit chance. Spinners gives 100 less Spell damage but also adds 1k Magika and 5.2% penetration. Overwhelming Surge offers 100 less Spell damage but adds 1k magika and an absurdly strong proc which can increase your damage against a specific target by 8%. Spell Power Cure offers 29 more Spell damage and 2k max magika and only needs to be on a single bar. Shackle offers 229 less Spell damage but adds 2k Mag 2k Stam and a line of recovery for each of them. Amber offers 229 spell damage less but adds 3% crit 1k Magika and 250 each Stam and Mag recovery.
Rattlecage is super inefficient and if you’re running it you will have a significantly lower concentration of stats compared to the other options. In addition you also lose out on the Max Mag and Mag recovery that Entropy offers which pushes the relative damage offered by Rattlecage even lower.
Everyone is entitled to run whatever they like, but that doesn’t mean it’s efficient. It also doesn’t mean people should post janky builds that have a significant disadvantage against efficient high level builds in a thread where someone is asking for help. We’re taking about an absolute bottom tier damage set and people are in here recommending it, it’s just absurd how bad Rattlecage is relative to your other options.
http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=78580 Show me the Rattlecage build that’s even close to these stats.
I mean I think you’re exaggerating a bit to say it’s a bottom tier set. It’s a damage set that’s easy to use and plays well for a lot of people that would like to have an extra ability. And as far as the OP goes, he said he feels squishy. I don’t think a 22k health build like that would be what he’s after. I dunno though. Great build either way.
I just used real numbers to list off 7 sets that all vary from slightly better to vastly superior and that didn’t include: Caluurion, Winterborn, any defensive sets, Necro, etc. Rattlecage so so far down the list.
22k Health is nothing to sneeze at when you’ve got near limitless sustain. This build has more defense, healing, and health than light armor with Wizard’s. It’s also got higher tooltips and access to more viable defensive choices and much easier resetting of fights. Did you see the build he said was squishy before you tried to reference this one not being tacky enough?
So in the build you posted it basically boils down to if you value 250 mag and stam recovery vs an extra skill like total dark or time stop if you use rattlecage right?
You won’t hit 41k mag and 4K Spell damage subbing Rattle for Amber. So I value the higher damage AND sustain over the skill slot.
You can’t run Shackle+Cage and 3x Spell damage glyphs and apprentice, you won’t be able to sustain it because you can’t afford to use Clockwork instead of tri-stat.
You can run wm or ccf with shackle if you tristat 3 big and triune rings. That will give you the extra 3k stam you need in addition to shackle with about 750 stam regen before pots and continuous. Still wouldnt be going 3 spell dmg and apprentice though personally unless you're in small group and cp campaigns.
I need to protect my wife so i triglyph and triune everything. But im not a "heal bot " as I've been called im too many streams.
@Brutusmax1mus
Who are you in game?
You claim to know my character, but I have no clue who yours is...
Message it to me, if you don't want it to be public...
BrutusNOMZ
I faintly recall that name...
Are you Red?
Primarily yellow. You're in a video of mine, showcasing your great escapability. From a patch or two back.1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you’re running jabs at all; you absolutely need swift on all 3 jewelry pieces.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
By that logic every single class is diverse as they can do all those things too except other classes also have top performing builds.
Then by your quoted standard why mention templars are diverse when all classes are diverse by your definition?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig...
When is the last time you seen a dw magblade or a snb magblade for an example? A Stam dk that’s not running snb or a sorc that’s not destro /resto? Meanwhile you’re likely to see a magplar running dw, destro or snb. You’re purposely missing the point just to argue.
Actually, funny you mention dw magblade and destro resto magdk. I have each specced that way right now. They both out perform my templar currently...
Stop trolling or be a learner. You're done now.
I never even mentioned magdk in that post. Magblade dw outside of bombing is a rarity , that’s an exception. You know what that means, right?
If you’re getting piped up by either on a magplar in a 1v1 than the class isn’t the issue, it’s you. Magdk once gave temps problems but considering the average Templar run defense setups its not the case.
If you’re that bad at Templar play something else but don’t sit here and be negative because of how you perform on it. If this was 2015 when no one even thought about playing magplar I would understand but this isn’t 2015.
The fact is the class is diverse , this isn’t about how well they perform next to sorc and nb. Not every class can run every role like a Templar at the same level but according to you we have stam dk healers running rampant all over cyrodiil. You’re a grade A straw man type of person.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Imagine moving faster than someone Sprinting and using Major Expedition...
Now imagine moving that fast while simutaneosly blocking with Major Evasion up...
That's what you essentially have with my escape idea on a Magplar with Swift x3...
It's insane...
Lol, there's a few threads about how awesome swift is.
Only PIA is getting transmutation crystals. I've already gone through a couple hundred
Oh, I must have missed them...
Well, I'm with you on the crystals; I ran through 250 of them today and now I need about 200 more...lol.
Your post did convince me to go vampire on my warden though. Already swifted him and will drop bone shield for mist form.
It'll be wonder.... Hrm... Which means I may wanna change some of my traits..0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Imagine moving faster than someone Sprinting and using Major Expedition...
Now imagine moving that fast while simutaneosly blocking with Major Evasion up...
That's what you essentially have with my escape idea on a Magplar with Swift x3...
It's insane...
Lol, there's a few threads about how awesome swift is.
Only PIA is getting transmutation crystals. I've already gone through a couple hundred
Oh, I must have missed them...
Well, I'm with you on the crystals; I ran through 250 of them today and now I need about 200 more...lol.
Your post did convince me to go vampire on my warden though. Already swifted him and will drop bone shield for mist form.
It'll be wonder.... Hrm... Which means I may wanna change some of my traits..
Your Warden is going to have some mad survivability...
What sets will you be wearing?Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
IDK about that. Most pigeonhole into destro staff and DW for main damage, and resto/snb for defense.
That's 4 different weapon types (5 if you include 2h). That's as much as any mag class, unless you're seeing a lot of bow-wielding magsorcs running around.
Yea but your comment made it sound like the magplar can slot bow/resto and walk around ready to fight lol.
At most, probably destro/snb is the most competitive magplar weapon spec with DW/2h for stamplar (anything else and you give up DMG/survivability).Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Imagine moving faster than someone Sprinting and using Major Expedition...
Now imagine moving that fast while simutaneosly blocking with Major Evasion up...
That's what you essentially have with my escape idea on a Magplar with Swift x3...
It's insane...
Lol, there's a few threads about how awesome swift is.
Only PIA is getting transmutation crystals. I've already gone through a couple hundred
Oh, I must have missed them...
Well, I'm with you on the crystals; I ran through 250 of them today and now I need about 200 more...lol.
Your post did convince me to go vampire on my warden though. Already swifted him and will drop bone shield for mist form.
It'll be wonder.... Hrm... Which means I may wanna change some of my traits..
Your Warden is going to have some mad survivability...
What sets will you be wearing?
He's currently got impreg + winterborn + skoria.
I'm considering if any traits would be better than sturdy if I use mist form over block.
If that's the case and neither well-fitted or sturdy are all that useful that may mean impregnable isn't my best suited choice - but 2500 crit resistance is nice...0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Think the issue with most people who play Templar (you can see it in this thread) is that they don’t know how diverse the Templar class is so they speak from a what’s best for all perspective. When really Templar is one of the most diverse classes in the game next to Stam sorc.
This is just ridiculous. The truth is all the templar specs are lackluster outside a group.
If there was a templar spec, even one, that rivals the performance of current sorc and NB then there would be no build diversity? Just one build.
Declaring build diversity based on a bunch of marginal builds of assorted playstyles is just fail.
Sounds like you don’t know what the definition of diverse is. Templar can pretty much make use of every weapon skill line, play ranged/melee or a combination of both, have too many skills to even slot which leads to more builds, multiple gear setups , can run healer/dps/balanced build etc.
Don’t misconstrue what I said. There’s a difference between something being diverse and something rivaling what’s perceived as top tier. FYI mag sorcs aren’t diverse, most run the same cliche setup.
As far as being able to play outside of a group that’s part class and part player skill and always been that way. If you think magplar is bad solo try playing magden solo, sure magplar has its issues but let’s stop acting like it’s unplayable.
By that logic every single class is diverse as they can do all those things too except other classes also have top performing builds.
Then by your quoted standard why mention templars are diverse when all classes are diverse by your definition?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig...
When is the last time you seen a dw magblade or a snb magblade for an example? A Stam dk that’s not running snb or a sorc that’s not destro /resto? Meanwhile you’re likely to see a magplar running dw, destro or snb. You’re purposely missing the point just to argue.
Actually, funny you mention dw magblade and destro resto magdk. I have each specced that way right now. They both out perform my templar currently...
Stop trolling or be a learner. You're done now.
I never even mentioned magdk in that post. Magblade dw outside of bombing is a rarity , that’s an exception. You know what that means, right?
If you’re getting piped up by either on a magplar in a 1v1 than the class isn’t the issue, it’s you. Magdk once gave temps problems but considering the average Templar run defense setups its not the case.
If you’re that bad at Templar play something else but don’t sit here and be negative because of how you perform on it. If this was 2015 when no one even thought about playing magplar I would understand but this isn’t 2015.
The fact is the class is diverse , this isn’t about how well they perform next to sorc and nb. Not every class can run every role like a Templar at the same level but according to you we have stam dk healers running rampant all over cyrodiil. You’re a grade A straw man type of person.
Oh, I thought you were done. Apparently you're still proving your ignorance to us.
Of course the l2p type comments from you are expected. Youre hurt that I called out your bull**** comment on templar diversity but how did you manage to conclude I suck at templar because my magblade is performing better this patch. It seems like your brain just thinks like a straw man argument.
They are actually one of the least diverse classes. You see most classes can slot anything a templar can and perform as good or better, except heal bot. On top of that many of the other classes have high performing/meta specs, templar doesnt = less diverse.
Hopefully next patch is good for templars. I would love to go back to playing the class I prefer.0