More transparency about dmg in dungeon?

Dubhliam

Yes, add dps % meter

This should be implemented ingame.

This is informative for every player, but not shared among others.

idk

LeagueTroll wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Adding this would introduce more toxicity. If you are in a group with elitists, they will kick you for not doing what they deem as enough damage.

So what is the correct threshold of not enough damage? Should you not kick a person who is 10k just because another guy is carrying by doing 50k? Is that fair?

If the requirement to finish the dungeon is 20k dps (group) and you pull 10.1k dps, it is my belief that you are pulling your weight. You may well disagree.

What if the requirement is 60k, would you kick 10k player when someone is doing 50k?

Which dungeon has a 60k group dps check?

Falkreath hold, bloodroot forge

They do not have a 60k dps check even on HM. High DPS obviously helps but a group that does it right and can handle mechanics trumps great DPS.

Post cmx screenshot that you finished vbrf with sub 60k group dps then.

Edit: hm btw

???? Does not make sense, but ok. I guess I must take into account the @name since that probably puts comments into perspective.

Right, you made a claim, I demand visual proof, you can’t provide it and question why I demand proof.

I made no claim. LOL. You clearly made that up. Thx for trying.

If you are questioning if it is possible, go to 18:08 of this video to see 70k breached in a boss fight. I can only assume you doubt anyone can reach those numbers since I clearly made no statement of the DPS I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS9g0Sz4mL8&list=PLWqnQ2EfnFBh1HccJfwDo8JVfaMvg8vSl&index=1

You said you don’t even need 60k group dps to do vbrf hm. How is this proof of ‘don’t need 60k’ and how is this brf? Cut your bs already. If you can’t provide proof on ‘sub 60k group dps can do brf hm’ you should just say you are wrong.

I think you are confused in a major way. Since we all know, well most of us know, that higher dps makes for an eaiser fight, anyone can decide what dps is required. As a tank you should be aware this already.

So, in the end, if I say you are not doing enough DPS that is all that matters. If you have spend much time in these forums you would have noticed a great many threads of average players complaining about everyone else being the reason for their failure yet they seem to be the only shining part of their random group.

Not that it matters since Zos will not open this up in the API, as I already stated the history of that earlier in this thread. It was added to one addon via an opt in option, but that was after a period of negotiation. That addon is no longer the main addon used these days.

No i am not confused. It’s a simple issue with just true or false. He said ‘60k is not needed for vbrf hm’, I don’t believe it’s not enough. So i ask him to show screenshots that he completed vbrf hm with sub 60k group dps. He yet to post it.

*i believe it’s not enough

So you think 60K is not enough dps for vBRF per player? Ok since that would certainly work. You are entitled to that opinion, but you are not entitled to see everyone's dps unless they choose to share it.

Nyladreas

No, don’t add meter

Facefister wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Some players are too obsessed with numbers.

Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

Numbers alone don't do anything and are mostly only praised by elitist who care about 0.1% dps differences.

I'd rather take a low DPS that pays attention to mechanics and takes longer to kill than some DPS beast that dies in fire eye-tunneling his DPS meter.

Korprok

toxic players will spread their toxcic anyways, at the very least some transparancy and showing of numbers (%?) would be helpful to people who are lagging behind- they'll become more aware and will perhaps learn from it and grow more confident which in turn will enable them to check out harder content- getting more enjoyment and value out of the game.

MLGProPlayer

Yes, add dps % meter

AdicusDio wrote: »

As long as mobs get burned quickly, the rest doesn't matter as most bosses are mechanics/routine/repeat.

Nobody would complain about bad DPS if enemies are going down quickly.

DPS meters also favor the person standing in one spot and not being bothered vs. the person roll dodging out of the way from attacks, stopping to skirt adds, having to deal with mechanics that a tank/healer doesn't have to worry about, waiting for their stam to regen, etc.. If dps has to stop attacking boss to kill it's orbs/adds/etc. it'll technically hurt their dps meter number.

This isn't true. If you are ignoring mechanics, you will die a lot, and your DPS will suffer (DPS = damage per second, and being dead most of the time will impact your DPS in a big way). You NEED to be paying attention to mechanics to maintain high DPS.

Nyladreas

No, don’t add meter

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

AdicusDio wrote: »

As long as mobs get burned quickly, the rest doesn't matter as most bosses are mechanics/routine/repeat.

Nobody would complain about bad DPS if enemies are going down quickly.

DPS meters also favor the person standing in one spot and not being bothered vs. the person roll dodging out of the way from attacks, stopping to skirt adds, having to deal with mechanics that a tank/healer doesn't have to worry about, waiting for their stam to regen, etc.. If dps has to stop attacking boss to kill it's orbs/adds/etc. it'll technically hurt their dps meter number.

This isn't true. If you are ignoring mechanics, you will die a lot, and your DPS will suffer (DPS = damage per second, and being dead most of the time will impact your DPS in a big way). You NEED to be paying attention to mechanics to maintain high DPS.

I've played wow since launch and I can easily say that your last statement is almost completely false. A LOT OF people soak up in order to keep their damage going when they shouldn't.

There are people who do fine, but those are WAY RARER than you think.

Nyladreas

No, don’t add meter

Double post

Facefister

Yes, add dps % meter

Nyladreas wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Some players are too obsessed with numbers.

Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

Numbers alone don't do anything and are mostly only praised by elitist who care about 0.1% dps differences.

I'd rather take a low DPS that pays attention to mechanics and takes longer to kill than some DPS beast that dies in fire eye-tunneling his DPS meter.

Why guys like you always assume that DDs with high dps ignore/don't pay attention to mechanics? Their high dps is the very result that they know their class and the mechanics of the current fight. You wont maintain 40k dps while having tunnel-vision and chewing up 31 soulgems, you'll maintain it by properly fighting the encounter.

Nyladreas

No, don’t add meter

Facefister wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Some players are too obsessed with numbers.

Those numbers decide whether you're able to complete or fail the ecounter. Witchcraft!

Numbers alone don't do anything and are mostly only praised by elitist who care about 0.1% dps differences.

I'd rather take a low DPS that pays attention to mechanics and takes longer to kill than some DPS beast that dies in fire eye-tunneling his DPS meter.

Why guys like you always assume that DDs with high dps ignore/don't pay attention to mechanics? Their high dps is the very result that they know their class and the mechanics of the current fight. You wont maintain 40k dps while having tunnel-vision and chewing up 31 soulgems, you'll maintain it by properly fighting the encounter.

Because we're experienced players who know better. Like I said above. I played WoW long enough. And I was a heroic, later mythic raider.

Facefister

Yes, add dps % meter

I've raided progress for years, I know what I am talking about, you should also know. Every ecounter is a dps check, every single one, you should know that as a mythic raider. You should also know that good DDs with high dps know the encounter in and out. They don't die and they don't have a tunnel vision, you know that. You should also know that your 40k drops down to 9k with when you don't pay attention to the mechanics.

As I said, a good DD with high dps most likely knows the fight, else he wouldn't keep up his high dps. Common knowledge for anyone who put a foot inside a raid.

dodgehopper_ESO

This kind of metric should also factor in things like rezzing team mates. The focus solely on damage output can at times blind people of facts: like the fact a DD can do crazy Dps but he's being propped up by heals, tank, etc while simultaneously doing *** all to help his mates who may have died. There's a balance here and it needs consideration. You don't make damage while you're rezzing the fallen. You also make life more miserable on the healer and tank as a high damage bad DD who stands in stupid for instance. I get where you are going with this, but people really need to do qualitative analysis on stuff like this before they fully assess what is going on.

MLGProPlayer

Yes, add dps % meter

Nyladreas wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

AdicusDio wrote: »

As long as mobs get burned quickly, the rest doesn't matter as most bosses are mechanics/routine/repeat.

Nobody would complain about bad DPS if enemies are going down quickly.

DPS meters also favor the person standing in one spot and not being bothered vs. the person roll dodging out of the way from attacks, stopping to skirt adds, having to deal with mechanics that a tank/healer doesn't have to worry about, waiting for their stam to regen, etc.. If dps has to stop attacking boss to kill it's orbs/adds/etc. it'll technically hurt their dps meter number.

This isn't true. If you are ignoring mechanics, you will die a lot, and your DPS will suffer (DPS = damage per second, and being dead most of the time will impact your DPS in a big way). You NEED to be paying attention to mechanics to maintain high DPS.

I've played wow since launch and I can easily say that your last statement is almost completely false. A LOT OF people soak up in order to keep their damage going when they shouldn't.

There are people who do fine, but those are WAY RARER than you think.

It's literally impossible to maintain high DPS if you're dead all the time. The counter doesn't stop ticking when you're dead.

Facefister

Yes, add dps % meter

I don't know where the delusion "That 9k dps guy perfectly plays the encounter while that 40k dps guy is dead again" comes from. It doesn't make sense, at all.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Yes, add dps % meter

Good old ‘normal’ mode for me! lol

dodgehopper_ESO

Facefister wrote: »

I don't know where the delusion "That 9k dps guy perfectly plays the encounter while that 40k dps guy is dead again" comes from. It doesn't make sense, at all.

This is true. Even the tank can do more than that. My only point was that sometimes people will complain about a damage dealer and not recognize facts. There are some IDIOT dps out there who can utterly destroy a dummy but have a lot to learn about other things. There is also a strata of players in between.

Zardayne

No, don’t add meter

In my opinion ever since MMOs starting allowing people to see a lot of the numbers, even those behind the scenes, using mods and dummies and crap a piece of the genre died. MMOs began to give us a digital fantasy world version of the old pen and paper games such as D&D. Back in the day when I was playing second edition AD&D in groups no one game a damn about how to squeeze out every drop of damage. We cared more for the adventure, the camaraderie with party mates, and coming out of the DM's death traps alive. I don't know what it is about the newer gaming crowd nowadays in MMOs and in PnP games where it's all become a big E-peen measuring contest for uber dps. I was listening to a D&D vid on youtube the other day and guys were talking about what abilities to max out their DPS. I was like WTF! Talk about suck the actual fun right out of gaming..Is there any wonder they say like 80-90% of MMO players have never even touched the game's endgame of vet dungeons and trials? Who wants to be judged by some leet *** watching his dps meters? Just play and enjoy the game...

Dubhliam

Yes, add dps % meter

Zardayne wrote: »

In my opinion ever since MMOs starting allowing people to see a lot of the numbers, even those behind the scenes, using mods and dummies and crap a piece of the genre died. MMOs began to give us a digital fantasy world version of the old pen and paper games such as D&D. Back in the day when I was playing second edition AD&D in groups no one game a damn about how to squeeze out every drop of damage. We cared more for the adventure, the camaraderie with party mates, and coming out of the DM's death traps alive. I don't know what it is about the newer gaming crowd nowadays in MMOs and in PnP games where it's all become a big E-peen measuring contest for uber dps. I was listening to a D&D vid on youtube the other day and guys were talking about what abilities to max out their DPS. I was like WTF! Talk about suck the actual fun right out of gaming..Is there any wonder they say like 80-90% of MMO players have never even touched the game's endgame of vet dungeons and trials? Who wants to be judged by some leet *** watching his dps meters? Just play and enjoy the game...

I see a lot of good reasoning behind your post, but...

I personally don't enjoy having to tank a dungeon that I have done countless times and see how damage dealers struggle to kill anything, making both the tank's and the healer's job so much more difficult.

I do not "enjoy" the game like that.

I can't.

And I am not alone in this.
Nobody enjoys wasting time in a dungeon.
The first time you enter a dugneon, it's a wonderful experience. Seeing the scenery, doing the quest and story, figuring out the mechanics and tactics for the first time.

After that first time though, there is absolutely no fun in slugging through a pledge dungeon.

LeagueTroll

Yes, add dps % meter

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

I don't know where the delusion "That 9k dps guy perfectly plays the encounter while that 40k dps guy is dead again" comes from. It doesn't make sense, at all.

This is true. Even the tank can do more than that. My only point was that sometimes people will complain about a damage dealer and not recognize facts. There are some IDIOT dps out there who can utterly destroy a dummy but have a lot to learn about other things. There is also a strata of players in between.

Just delusional ppl with made up stuff. I find high dps players generally learn mechanics faster too.

LadyNalcarya

Yes, add dps % meter

Facefister wrote: »

I don't know where the delusion "That 9k dps guy perfectly plays the encounter while that 40k dps guy is dead again" comes from. It doesn't make sense, at all.

This.
Dps meter doesnt pause when you die, so its literally impossible to have good dps if you die all the time. And low dps dds usually dont understand how the game works, that's the reason why they have issues with dps.

chaz

libgroupsocket?

What is it? I just started noticing it since the last patch.

TimeWizard

Yes, add dps % meter

I would love for something like this to be implemented. When I started doing dungeons 2 years ago I thought I was a pretty decent player. I knew I couldn't carry a vet dungeon but I thought I was pulling my weight. When I got a good group for pledges we completed, when I didn't we failed. I was pulling 3k dps. I thought I was doing fine. If there had been a meter to show me what the others were doing I would have known much faster that I sucked and was getting hard carried.

Mureel

disintegr8 wrote: »

The only issue in a group is whether the group can get the job done and you do not need to know what damage everyone else is doing.

I would see this as given people another excuse to harass and kick people who don;t live up to your expectations. I'd also suggest that there would be people who will question your ability - only because they think you could/should do more.

When I am 1 of 2/3 dps I know what I’ve done and % I’ve done and total, so I know what the other one is doing if it’s 2 and either the 3rd is doing some or getting a carry depending on my % of group.

That’s all I really need to know.

kathandira

Yes, add dps % meter

Apparently, there are only 2 types of players.

Those who are low DPS, but high situational awareness

Those who are high DPS but die immediately

How very narrow minded of you folks who think this way.

Aebaradath

No, don’t add meter

Oh, this trash-tier thread totally needed that *** bump.

Odovacar

us console players sit and read these comments and pine for the day we can even see our combat metrics breakdown lol

Odnoc

No, don’t add meter

Nope. Makes people self-righteous jerk.

Odnoc

No, don’t add meter

Conduit0 wrote: »

I find it odd how other games manage to have DPS meters that everyone can see and not cause the kind of rampant griefing everyone is talking about. Of course I've also never run into players that were so blatantly not ready for the content they queued for or people marked as damage dealers who couldn't DPS their way out of a paper bag in other games either. I can't help but think these things may be related.

What games? Single player games don’t count..

randomkeyhits

A meter for yourself and yourself only is fine.

You get to know whether you contributed well or not in an instance.

If a player wants to improve they will and the meter would let them measure their progress, beyond that it ends up as a tool to castigate other players, not a good thing.

Varana

No, don’t add meter

chaz wrote: »

libgroupsocket?

What is it? I just started noticing it since the last patch.

It's an API that allows for some combat stats to be shared with your group.
For the most part, it's used by addons like Raid Notifier to track the uptime on Ultis like Warhorn so the group can coordinate who should use their ulti at what time. Unless you're in a leaderboard raid group, don't bother with it.

It's also strictly opt-in - you have to turn on sharing manually by yourself, even if it comes bundled with another addon.
I'm not sure how much data it can see and share, i.e. whether a group dps metre is technically possible.

Colecovision

From a solo players perspective, CM has been overwhelmingly helpfull. How else would I know what's going on? I'm well behind the dps heros, but cm has been a big part of me improving to solo vet dungeons, clear vMA and I go back and forth playing king of the hill with the Craglorn wbs. It's not just pure dps, it's about looking at how healing is effecting things compared to damage taken and where the heal comes from. Then there's the uptime on all the buffs, not just major brutality or whatever other kill everything buff.

Information is good. Really really good.