[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

danno8

notyuu wrote: »

backlash/PoTL/PL
applies to target
copies 100% of the damage the target does up to [insert arbitary number here]

there, a delayed burst that's unique and functional...well more functonal than what we have now.

My 2c:

"Place a burning mark on your target that explodes for x damage after 6 seconds. Each Dawn's Wrath skill that is applied to the target or ticks on the target increases the explosion damage by 5%.

Dawn's Wrath skills do 10% more damage on opponents afflicted by Backlash."

I really like the idea of making skills work with each other hence the interaction. I would put the damage at top-end as 1.5x-2x a Dark Flare.

Dark Flare sucks so bad right now, something like this might make it more useful.

Bl4ck7h0rn3

I feel like the copy dmg effect can be more useful than scaling off max mag/

danno8 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

backlash/PoTL/PL
applies to target
copies 100% of the damage the target does up to [insert arbitary number here]

there, a delayed burst that's unique and functional...well more functonal than what we have now.

My 2c:

"Place a burning mark on your target that explodes for x damage after 6 seconds. Each Dawn's Wrath skill that is applied to the target or ticks on the target increases the explosion damage by 5%.

Dawn's Wrath skills do 10% more damage on opponents afflicted by Backlash."

I really like the idea of making skills work with each other hence the interaction. I would put the damage at top-end as 1.5x-2x a Dark Flare.

Dark Flare sucks so bad right now, something like this might make it more useful.

I like this idea but I'd like to see it expanded to 'Each class skill', otherwise it would suck in PvE. At least doing it that way you could spam sweeps/jabs to up the damage a decent amount.

gariondavey

mmtaniac wrote: »

Potl just remove copy dmg and let it explode after 6seconds with dmg scaled by your stamina and weapon dmg

Yup

Athan1

notyuu wrote: »

backlash/PoTL/PL
applies to target
copies 100% of the damage the target does up to [insert arbitary number here]

there, a delayed burst that's unique and functional...well more functonal than what we have now.

Backlash has a 20% limit because it used to copy damage from EVERYONE in your group, hence the 20% limit made sense. However, they have long-removed the group damage copying gimmick, without adjusting the percentage, resulting in a huge nerf. So this skill is completely useless, and requires over 100k DPS in order to get even close to the upper limit, which is absurd given the recent nerfs.

Most players *used to* slot it for the ground HoT or minor breach, but now that literally everything heals you or causes minor breach, this skill is completely useless and needs a complete rework with new unique gimmicks added to it, as of U29 there is literally zero reason to slot it.

maxjapank

Rather than a ground heal for Power of the Light, why not make it so after 6 secs, the dmg you do along with the plus 20% damage be a Lifesteal. I know that this, in a sense, is what Puncturing Sweeps does. But Power of the light would work more like the Crimson Set - it steals health based on the dmg you do. Perhaps Backlash could do the same.

It would allow the Templar to maintain the offensive momentum and be rewarded with a heal for doing so. Numbers could be adjusted to keep it from being too powerful. But as it is now, the amount of dmg we do with BL/PoL is pretty low anyways.

ealdwin

So, a potential solution, could be a rework/shuffle of the Dawn's Wrath skill line. It's by no means an elegant solution, or one that I'd imagine would be widely popular as it would involve alterations of what certain abilities do. But, it does play along with ZOS's standardization game.

I don't have the full idea fleshed entirely out (some morph effects could use work), but the general idea would look like this:

Sun Fire
This ability becomes a single target ranged spam-able. The Reflective Light morph retains the morph effect, dealing damage to additional enemies near the target. The Vampire's Bane morph would then gain a new effect. Right now I'm thinking something along the lines of applying the Burning Status effect.

Solar Flare
This ability is completely reworked, and becomes a fire-and-forget burst ability inspired by the Meteor skill from the Mage's Guild (but with appropriate damage level). Instant cast, and 3 seconds later a ball of solar energy slams into the enemy. The Dark Flare morph can continue providing AoE Major Defile (or a new effect since Defiles are "eh" now. Solar Barrage becomes a Stamina version with a new effect. (The current Solar Barrage effects get moved to Unstable Core).

Backlash
This ability is reworked into the class DoT, and gains a ramping damage effect similar to the current effect on Ritual of Retribution, where the damage increases by a % amount each tick. The Purifying Light morph would heal allies near the affected target for a percent of the damage done. The Power of the Light morph remains a Stamina version and could gain a new unique debuff that would make the ability useful once more to Templar Tanks (now that Minor Breach is readily accessible).

Eclipse
This ability gets reworked to incorporate elements from the current version of Solar Barrage. The base ability would be the current Solar Barrage—applied on self, damage every 2 seconds—with a different buff for the duration. The ability could snare enemies hit. Or, the ability could grant Minor Evasion (or a different defensive buff) for the duration to go with the "shrouded in a lightless aura" idea. (When compared to Blade Cloak, this would mean Eclipse would deal more damage but offer a Minor buff compared to BC's less damage but Major Cloak). The Unstable Core morph would then add Empower for the duration to the base ability, making it current Solar Barrage with an extra effect. And the Living Dark morph would add healing to each pulse that increases for each enemy hit, but would see a decrease in damage compared to the base skill and UC morph.

Radiant Destruction
This ability and morphs remain as is, except the ability now deals damage on the initial tick.

I know these changes are likely not elegant or have the potential to be popular—please be vocal if they are bad, I won't take offense. But, they would play into ZOS's standardization game while providing Templar DDs with a reliable burst ability, Magplars with a ranged spam-able, Stamplars with a class DoT, Healplars continued utility through PL, and Tankplars new utility (once figured out) through PotL.

mmtaniac

Potl - If they should add something then potl should get major breach now or some unique armor pen debuff

Toppling charge - should get stamina morph or at least stamina weapon dmg scaling with magicka cost of skill

Combine passive Prism and Illuminate into one passive and add at this one free space passive to regen stamina and magicka (Mythic item torc of tonal contancy) like effect but weaker torc have 450 passive have 150 something like that this will improve templar sustain in resources you use less but they are still important.

danno8

Bl4ck7h0rn3 wrote: »

I feel like the copy dmg effect can be more useful than scaling off max mag/

danno8 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

backlash/PoTL/PL
applies to target
copies 100% of the damage the target does up to [insert arbitary number here]

there, a delayed burst that's unique and functional...well more functonal than what we have now.

My 2c:

"Place a burning mark on your target that explodes for x damage after 6 seconds. Each Dawn's Wrath skill that is applied to the target or ticks on the target increases the explosion damage by 5%.

Dawn's Wrath skills do 10% more damage on opponents afflicted by Backlash."

I really like the idea of making skills work with each other hence the interaction. I would put the damage at top-end as 1.5x-2x a Dark Flare.

Dark Flare sucks so bad right now, something like this might make it more useful.

I like this idea but I'd like to see it expanded to 'Each class skill', otherwise it would suck in PvE. At least doing it that way you could spam sweeps/jabs to up the damage a decent amount.

If you included all Templar skills, the damage bonus would need to be capped. Mostly because of Jabs being 4 hits per second.

When I made the suggestion it was based on a maximum of 6 ticks from Vamp bane, 2 or 3 from Flare, and maybe a few from Unstable Core for a maximum bonus of maybe 60-70% damage bonus. Jabs itself would put it at 100% (5% x 4 hits x 5 seconds) never mind all the other skills that may be ticking at the same time.

Bl4ck7h0rn3

danno8 wrote: »

Bl4ck7h0rn3 wrote: »

I feel like the copy dmg effect can be more useful than scaling off max mag/

danno8 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

backlash/PoTL/PL
applies to target
copies 100% of the damage the target does up to [insert arbitary number here]

there, a delayed burst that's unique and functional...well more functonal than what we have now.

My 2c:

"Place a burning mark on your target that explodes for x damage after 6 seconds. Each Dawn's Wrath skill that is applied to the target or ticks on the target increases the explosion damage by 5%.

Dawn's Wrath skills do 10% more damage on opponents afflicted by Backlash."

I really like the idea of making skills work with each other hence the interaction. I would put the damage at top-end as 1.5x-2x a Dark Flare.

Dark Flare sucks so bad right now, something like this might make it more useful.

I like this idea but I'd like to see it expanded to 'Each class skill', otherwise it would suck in PvE. At least doing it that way you could spam sweeps/jabs to up the damage a decent amount.

If you included all Templar skills, the damage bonus would need to be capped. Mostly because of Jabs being 4 hits per second.

When I made the suggestion it was based on a maximum of 6 ticks from Vamp bane, 2 or 3 from Flare, and maybe a few from Unstable Core for a maximum bonus of maybe 60-70% damage bonus. Jabs itself would put it at 100% (5% x 4 hits x 5 seconds) never mind all the other skills that may be ticking at the same time.

I meant it more in the way of one press of the button = 1 use of skill. So it wouldn't be every hit of jabs, just the initial hit. You can get roughly 1 sweep/jab per second so it wouldn't be too much IMO, compared to 1.8 second channel of Radiant Glory/Oppressions or another potential spammable.

Speaking of Radiant Glory/Oppression, the first damage tick needs to be instant! At the minute you use up Magicka but can be interrupted before the damage actually ticks, which is ridiculous.

Shantu

I just wish they'd put Sweeps on a .8 sec channel. Worst skill in the game to get a good LA weave.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I'm a bit conflicted posting here:
1. Because the sDK was my first class, and I still consider it my main.
2. I really like the how the stamplar feels and plays in live(for PvE) and I know I'm in the minority here.

Now I'm not here to troll stamplar mains, or tell people their experience is invalid, I am merely sharing my experience play the class for a year and a half.

The stamplar just feels like a vacation from the busy and clunky rotation of the sDk. No other class feels like it just lays utter waste to content like quite like the stamplar, and I say this knowing that I still parsed higher on my DK(85k pre new cp).

All that said, it would not be a bad thing for the damage of jabs was spread around some of the templars other skills, especially for something that provides group utility to stamina groups looking for scores. Reworking power of the light or or jabs so that it does give a redundant buff would probably be where I'd start.

Ippokrates

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm a bit conflicted posting here:
1. Because the sDK was my first class, and I still consider it my main.
2. I really like the how the stamplar feels and plays in live(for PvE) and I know I'm in the minority here.

Now I'm not here to troll stamplar mains, or tell people their experience is invalid, I am merely sharing my experience play the class for a year and a half.

The stamplar just feels like a vacation from the busy and clunky rotation of the sDk. No other class feels like it just lays utter waste to content like quite like the stamplar, and I say this knowing that I still parsed higher on my DK(85k pre new cp).

All that said, it would not be a bad thing for the damage of jabs was spread around some of the templars other skills, especially for something that provides group utility to stamina groups looking for scores. Reworking power of the light or or jabs so that it does give a redundant buff would probably be where I'd start.

Templar is very similar to the DK due to a necessity of fighting in melee range, but it lacks reasonable DOT & major breach.

The most tricky part of tempar are jabs. For unexperience players they are great, cause game plays itself but due to a channeling its getting difficult to combine it with weaving & AC with other skills.

But hey, at least sustain is one of the most positive aspects of the Templar, especially in stamina department. Hard to compete with that

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@Ippokrates
Currently, the sDK and mDen, are the only classes with built-in major breech, which is redundant in group content since healers and tanks maintain 100% up time
For solo content most stam toons run razor caltrops already, which is getting a buff this patch as well.

I could see jabs being an issue for sure, I honest just looked relequin stacks, to track my weaving and figure out the appropriate cancel time.

Ippokrates

@ke.sardenb14_ESO

You forget about NB & Necro, which means that Templar is the only class next to sorc that lack this debuff. But sorc has imho little easier access to penetration with full light armour & destro staff.

Yeah, theAsianGod made a vlog about jabs. As far as I remember, full animation last 1.5 sec, but 4th hit is somewhere around 0.9-1.2, so the moment to cancel is with leg movement

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Ippokrates wrote: »

@ke.sardenb14_ESO

You forget about NB & Necro, which means that Templar is the only class next to sorc that lack this debuff. But sorc has imho little easier access to penetration with full light armour & destro staff.

Yeah, theAsianGod made a vlog about jabs. As far as I remember, full animation last 1.5 sec, but 4th hit is somewhere around 0.9-1.2, so the moment to cancel is with leg movement

Edit: I totally forgot about mark and the bone yard morph, but that is beside the point. The templar needs a unique buff/debuff to bring to the table. Giving them a buff every tank maintains 100% of the time, and a healer can cast for free will not make the class more desirable in group content. This is even worse for stamplar because the one unique buff they used to have minor breech can just be applied by tanks.

Ippokrates

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

@ke.sardenb14_ESO

You forget about NB & Necro, which means that Templar is the only class next to sorc that lack this debuff. But sorc has imho little easier access to penetration with full light armour & destro staff.

Yeah, theAsianGod made a vlog about jabs. As far as I remember, full animation last 1.5 sec, but 4th hit is somewhere around 0.9-1.2, so the moment to cancel is with leg movement

Edit: I totally forgot about mark and the bone yard morph, but that is beside the point. The templar needs a unique buff/debuff to bring to the table. Giving them a buff every tank maintains 100% of the time, and a healer can cast for free will not make the class more desirable in group content. This is even worse for stamplar because the one unique buff they used to have minor breech can just be applied by tanks.

At this point, any class can have almost any effect, maybe except minor sorcery (which combine with major gives really nice results).

But get back to major breach - templar is melee class, just like DK, so sometimes in the veteran fight is hard to swap weapon to cast caltrops and surely, it is not a skill that deserve front bar plus single target power of the light is also not a solution ;p so it would be nice to have something like acid breath you can put next to jabs...

mmtaniac

Templar is only class that not have major breach and major brutality or sorcery every classes have one of this buff or debuff we have minor breach but right now its worthless all other stamina classes have them and every tanks.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@Ippokrates
So, if zos gave biting jabs major beech instead of major savagery, and took it away from Noxious Breath, as a DK player, I would not care at all. As a templar player I'd be disappointed, because my class is still not viable in optimize trials.

Ippokrates

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

@Ippokrates
So, if zos gave biting jabs major beech instead of major savagery, and took it away from Noxious Breath, as a DK player, I would not care at all. As a templar player I'd be disappointed, because my class is still not viable in optimize trials.

but remember that templar major savagery is connected to crit damage bonus from aedric spear so in a way major breach is given full potential with minor berserk - so such simple change wouldn't do

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@Ippokrates
I suppose if you are alone in PvE or PvP, you do not have it in your skill set to use a large insta-cast dot that will in the up-coming patch be buffed with the intention of increasing cleave damage for stamina classes, and you do not want to wear the easily accessible crafted set night mothers gaze; then sure it will increase your damage.
But if even a single one of these things mentioned above are not true, as they often are, you will see 0 impact to your overall performance. And regardless of whether any of them are the case, the templar will remain as useless in group content as it is now.

Ippokrates

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

@Ippokrates
I suppose if you are alone in PvE or PvP, you do not have it in your skill set to use a large insta-cast dot that will in the up-coming patch be buffed with the intention of increasing cleave damage for stamina classes, and you do not want to wear the easily accessible crafted set night mothers gaze; then sure it will increase your damage.
But if even a single one of these things mentioned above are not true, as they often are, you will see 0 impact to your overall performance. And regardless of whether any of them are the case, the templar will remain as useless in group content as it is now.

@ke.sardenb14_ESO

Ah, irony. Nice try but you need to work on that. Especially in second part.

1st, in both PvE & PvP Caltrops are to static to be used efficiently. You need skill "on you" that can apply major breach, not an area skill that would require from you enemies to gracefully stand in the zone to get debuff. Especially with very limited amount of active caltrops.

2nd, NMG is a decent set, with nice bonuses, but assumption that replacing one of top tier sets to get debuff that other classes in standard is kinda.. silly ^^

3rd, orly, no impact? You made a math you are willing to share with us? C'mon, don't keep us waiting, show us what you got prof ESO XD

4th, sure, templar is great for soloing but for team play it needs rework in are of debuffs, cc & possibly range attack, which major breach could be important part of. So you can save yourself your little snarky comments that leads nowhere ^^

soniku4ikblis

I switched to S&B in order to tack on Major & Minor breach during PVP fights.

Its basically my job now. In group play as well.

Heal, buff, debuff, repeat.

Ippokrates

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

I switched to S&B in order to tack on Major & Minor breach during PVP fights.

Its basically my job now. In group play as well.

Heal, buff, debuff, repeat.

I also thought about this, but loss of dps & single targeting were too much much for me.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@Ippokrates
1. Stamplar current playstyle is basically is drop trap, hail, and large expensive bright yellow ring that can't move once you cast it(ritual), swap, jab, and repeat. A mobile fight would demand you recast all of that anyway. But, what if there was another larger circular dot you could cast in your dots that would allow you to make it more difficult to leave your other large circular dots, oh wait razor caltrops does that and proves breech.
2. NBG is novice set, but I assume that if you find casting caltrops difficult, you are a novice.
3. There is no math needed, regardless of class the tank will be maintaining breech since it comes with the base morphs of S&B taunt. The healer will also be casting ele drain since on top of being free, on top of it providing breach, on top of it being range, it also provides magic steal for the party. Since the debuff does not stack, your support can cast it far more efficiently then you, and your support are maintaining 100%, any additional sources of major breech would not impact group damage.
4. I mention solo play because like I said before, it would be the only time your tanks and healers would not be placing breech. I all other situations you can and should cast caltrops if you are stam, and ele drain if you are mag.

Ippokrates

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

@Ippokrates
1. Stamplar current playstyle is basically is drop trap, hail, and large expensive bright yellow ring that can't move once you cast it(ritual), swap, jab, and repeat. A mobile fight would demand you recast all of that anyway. But, what if there was another larger circular dot you could cast in your dots that would allow you to make it more difficult to leave your other large circular dots, oh wait razor caltrops does that and proves breech.
2. NBG is novice set, but I assume that if you find casting caltrops difficult, you are a novice.
3. There is no math needed, regardless of class the tank will be maintaining breech since it comes with the base morphs of S&B taunt. The healer will also be casting ele drain since on top of being free, on top of it providing breach, on top of it being range, it also provides magic steal for the party. Since the debuff does not stack, your support can cast it far more efficiently then you, and your support are maintaining 100%, any additional sources of major breech would not impact group damage.
4. I mention solo play because like I said before, it would be the only time your tanks and healers would not be placing breech. I all other situations you can and should cast caltrops if you are stam, and ele drain if you are mag.

@ke.sardenb14_ESO

That's the whole point, that team combo is good for trials. But in many vet mechanics dd must act Independently. And move very fast.

I understand that many guys that are bursting through normal dung consider themselves expert xd but sometimes there is no time for trap, hail, ritual, etc.

BTW. who uses lighttraps? XD the proper rotation should be hail, gc, heavytrap & then jabs.

carlos424

Athan1 wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

backlash/PoTL/PL
applies to target
copies 100% of the damage the target does up to [insert arbitary number here]

there, a delayed burst that's unique and functional...well more functonal than what we have now.

Backlash has a 20% limit because it used to copy damage from EVERYONE in your group, hence the 20% limit made sense. However, they have long-removed the group damage copying gimmick, without adjusting the percentage, resulting in a huge nerf. So this skill is completely useless, and requires over 100k DPS in order to get even close to the upper limit, which is absurd given the recent nerfs.

Most players *used to* slot it for the ground HoT or minor breach, but now that literally everything heals you or causes minor breach, this skill is completely useless and needs a complete rework with new unique gimmicks added to it, as of U29 there is literally zero reason to slot it.

You need a little over 100k over 6 seconds to reach the upper limit, so not terribly difficult. But I agree that backlash needs some improvements. It’s so clunky with the 6 second timer and basically having to use jabs for max damage which is also quite clunky. Maybe make it a 10 second cooldown but copy more damage. Or just give it damage over time, with a set number for an explosion at the end, something like unstable wall of elements.

Sanguinor2

carlos424 wrote: »

You need a little over 100k over 6 seconds to reach the upper limit, so not terribly difficult. But I agree that backlash needs some improvements. It’s so clunky with the 6 second timer and basically having to use jabs for max damage which is also quite clunky. Maybe make it a 10 second cooldown but copy more damage. Or just give it damage over time, with a set number for an explosion at the end, something like unstable wall of elements.

For PvE its fine but in PvP you are never coming even close to 20k dps on a player. And in the very very rare case you meet a potato that takes that much damage they are dead before backlash goes off anyway.
Comparing it to stuff like curse, blastbones or shalks is downright insulting: All 3 of them dont need any work to hit their maximum damage, all 3 take half as long to go off and all 3 can do AoE damage.
Backlash, from a pvp perspective, needs to be completly redone. Current backlash is worthless compared to other delayed burst damage abilities.

techyeshic

I think of purifying light and POTL as a 20% damage buff. But it's easy to see and purge, and avoid damage to make it wasted. Certainly lacking as being delayed burst to where I can't even call it that.

Alekero

Do this do that...just let devs make stamplar great again in pvp

furiouslog

Current U29 PVE DPS roundup:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/573851/u29-pve-dps-roundup

Templar squarely in the middle of the pack.

Current U29 PVP Tier List:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568150/pvp-tierlist-for-flames-of-ambition

Templar at bottom.

That's pretty much all I have to say.