[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

casparian

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

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rexagamemnon wrote: »

Valkyn skoria should proc on sweeps and jabs

Except that that ability isn't a DoT - it's Direct Damage.

I think they're just hearkening back to ye olden times when Skoria did proc on Sweeps.

gariondavey

I've wondered this so many times in the last 4 years:

Why does biting jabs give major savagery but puncturing sweeps doesn't give major prophecy?
Why does vampire bane not give major savagery?
Why doesn't biting jabs heal like puncturing sweeps?
I'd rather biting jabs heal like sweeps.

YandereGirlfriend

casparian wrote: »

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YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

rexagamemnon wrote: »

Valkyn skoria should proc on sweeps and jabs

Except that that ability isn't a DoT - it's Direct Damage.

I think they're just hearkening back to ye olden times when Skoria did proc on Sweeps.

You're probably right but they should know that that was a bug and not the intended behavior.

Fabi95

Since the major changes to the Dragonknight, there is a huge need to consolidate two Templar passives now. First look at this Dragonknight passive:

Mountain's Blessing - When you cast an Earthen Heart ability, you and your group gain Minor Brutality for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon Damage by 10%. If you are in combat, you also generate 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

This passive does two things at once. Now let's look at Templar:

Prism - Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability while in combat generates 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
Illuminate - Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability grants Minor Sorcery to you and your group for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 10%.

So the Templar class has 2 passives for 2 bonuses, but Dragonknight has 1 passive to get the same 2 bonuses. This really needs changing because there is a big discrepancy with this in terms of fairness and balance. In addition, this class passive could need some real love too:

Enduring Rays - Increases the duration of your Sun Fire, Eclipse, Solar Flare, and Nova abilities by 2 seconds.

Because in its current state, the Templar class does lose 2 whole class passives in terms of benefits - when comparing it to other classes such as Dragonknight.

To tackle down sustain issues on Templar (which unfortunately are very real), implementing this Dragonknight passive in a similar fashion would be a very welcome addition to bring Templar into 2021 / 2022:

Combustion - Increases the damage of your Burning and Poisoned status effects by 50%. When you apply Burning to an enemy, you restore 1000 Magicka. When you apply Poisoned to an enemy, you restore 1000 Stamina. These effects can occur once every 0.5 seconds, individually of each other.

It would come down to what status effects it should be for the Templar class, or if it should be any other conditions. But some extra love there is certainly needed.

lQrukl

lQrukl wrote: »

I am pretty happy to see that templar gets attention "after all these years" =D

But it is also a great incentive to draw attention to the problems that this class still has:

1) Sun fire still not viable (not worth its slot)
2) Solar & Dark flare still not viable (terrible cast time, terrible damage)
3) Javelin is very questionable even for PVP, because its mag morph is worse then clench & master staff, and damage is not enought to realase it as a damage skill that can be successfully used against fat armored enemies
4) Blazing Shield has to be reviewed
5) Nova is useless again with this frost clench changes (tank would have all rules to make Major Maim 100% uptime). Before it was useful against last boses in vKA HM and vHoF HM.
6) Radiant Aura is pointless after game got Overcharged. Stamina morph much useful even for magica builds

Possible solutions that i can see:

1) Sun fire

a) Make it viable as spam skill, e.g. make it possible to proc Burning Light, increase damage of the first hit, etc
b) Make it viable DoT skill by increasing damage (lazy)
c) Make it more PvE and/or PvP specifed by adding usefull buff/debuff. E.g. increase damage against vamire players, or make it possible to "blind" enemies: "enemy cannot deal critical damage for x seconds" (to counter "dark" sneaky enemies like NB/Vampires)

2) Solar & Dark flare

a) It can be reworked, like Crystall weapon. E.g.:
- "Solar flare: Bless your ranged weapon in solar energy for 4 seconds, causing your next Light or Heavy Attack to deal an additional x Magic Damage. Also grants you Empower for 3 seconds, increasing the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 40%.
- "Auri-El's arrow: Charge your ranged weapon with the power of the solar energy, replacing your Light and Heavy Attacks with sun arrows, dealing x Magic Damage to an enemy up to 28 meters away. Heavy Attacks also pierce all opponents on the way, dealing up to 100% damage of main blast, depending on the charge."
So Barrage still be usefull morph for players with mele dd style (sweeps, barrage, etc), but also players that dislike mele gameplay would be able to change morphs and keep their usefullness (but would lost insane heal from sweeps).
b) It can provide something more usefull then Major Defile (lazy)

3) Javelin

Just increase damage! =3

4) Blazing Shield

Probably make it possible to reflect projectiles, not only deal poor damage

5) Nova

a) Make it or one of its morph more PvP specifed. Like "Sun shine blinds enemies in the area and they cannot deal critical damage".
b) Increase damage of Solar Disturbance to make it viable comparing with destruction staff ult not counting synergy damage & leave Solar Prison as tank/healer ability for dangerous trash.

6) Radiant Aura

It could be brilliant heal ability, like: "Consecrate the souls of the fallen, healing you and your allies for x Health and restoring x Magica to you or your random ally for each corpse nearby. While slotted, you gain Minor fortitude, Minor Endurance, and Minor Intellect, increasing your Health, Stamina, and Magicka Recovery by 15%."

Thanks for reading 🦎

Just a reminder that none of the voiced problems have been touched upon in the last 4 months

mmtaniac

Passives make all job and templar not have any good , thats why his sustain ,defense and healing suck espiecially on stamplar. Not having a class healing to proc passives and having passives that work only with one skills is worst design. Passives should be universal not focused on only class skills maybe 1 or 2 passives of the skill tree but not all.
Game change and our passives like soul gem ressurection(just add secondary more usefull effect at all times) are still there i ask WHY?!

notyuu

Just three little words

Stamplar Defensive tools?

as in, where are they? the only ones avaible scale off of spell damage damage/max health

can stamina get something viable? please?

techyeshic

notyuu wrote: »

Just three little words

Stamplar Defensive tools?

as in, where are they? the only ones avaible scale off of spell damage damage/max health

can stamina get something viable? please?

But Extended Ritual makes you so many friends these days...

Soris

SUN SHIELD

Sun shield and its morphs should be buffed to cover at least 25% of your max health instead of 15% (in pvp!). And the range of the explotion should be increased to 8 meters instead of 5. (same range as jabs). Both morph's base cost should be 3300 magicka as radiant ward already is.

One of the morphs should give you major expedition for its duration and remove roots & snares on cast (no immunity!)

The other morph should give you heal over time that is roughly 2k heal per second (in pvp!) And should grant minor armor buff.


CLEANSING RITUAL

Extended Ritual's heal over time should start as soon as you cast it. No more waiting for 2 secs for the first tick! And make it tick every second instead of every 2 seconds. Reduce the healing per tick to balance it out.


RUNE FOCUS

Rune focus and its morps should continue healing you even if you moved out of it. And it should heal significantly more if you decide to stand inside of it.


ECLIPSE

Change the bubble animation to something less ugly. Remove that big ugly bubble, just keep those dark(or light) shades running around my character.


NOVA

One of the morhps (ideally the non synergy one) should stick to the character just like warden's winter ultimate


HEALING ULTI

Should heal more and tick faster, considering you are standing there not moving, casting that ultimate... That was maybe cool in 2014 but not anymore!


HEALING RITUAL

Base skill should either cost less magicka since it is 30% less healing than breath of life. Or should have a built in heal over time after the burst heal.

One of the morphs should be a health scaled self heal and heal overtime.


Last but not least, one of the most used templar skill should give major sorcery & brutality buff either the charge, sun shield, rune focus, power of the light or even jabs maybe.

FeedbackOnly

Would like cc option for tank or something cost effective outside class line

mmtaniac

Power of the light of Stamplar is good ability ,but Minor Breach is not good anymore everyone have Minor Breach right now from simple status by dealing physical damage especially templar from his jabs. Minor Breach should be changed to something different ,maybe Minor Vulnerability or Major breach or just give us Minor Courage for that few seconds by activating ability something should be different to work.

IronWooshu

I feel like Templar is in a good place all around right now, however I feel a skill icon rework could be used. Some Templar skill icons are fine but then you have alot that are a bright yellow background with a barely legible tan yellowish white picture inside it that when on your skill bar all look the same.

techyeshic

I don't think templar is in a great spot right now. If you run with a group at all in Cyrodiil right now; chances are they will want you to not run ER, or at least should. Key ability requested to not be used because a set will blow up if a PUG comes along and activates it or; if someone is trying to rez and the synergy is in the way so they cannot just use it to clear it.

mmtaniac

Ok Magplar is in good spot you have heal by damage and class burst heal you can stand in place easy thanks to burst heal and heal by damage.
Stamplar no class healing only ritual and rune but they require to stay in the place ,but staying in place require burst heal to heal self on what i need to wait 20 seconds and still run , and can't attack while running, im easier target because i don't have class defense. Best thing will be change stamina rune to be able to heal while move.
Add class burst heal or some kind of class defense ability that can be easier to use by stamplar ,stamplar require (stamina cost not magicka) templar not , not have option to regen not main resource.

Hotdog_23

mmtaniac wrote: »

Power of the light of Stamplar is good ability ,but Minor Breach is not good anymore everyone have Minor Breach right now from simple status by dealing physical damage especially templar from his jabs. Minor Breach should be changed to something different ,maybe Minor Vulnerability or Major breach or just give us Minor Courage for that few seconds by activating ability something should be different to work.

Wish it would heal like the magic version does and grant minor toughness for both morphs. The healing and more would fit into the healing theme that Templar’s have going. Plus, it would give the Stamplar a little more staying power in PVP fights.

Stay safe everyone

mmtaniac

Magicka Templar is heal by damage and Burst heal but stamina edition should have more hots that move with you not stay in place i remember old Rally was nice you get healing non stop and after only 15second you get that extra burst. Having class vigor with minor exp on cast for 4seconds will be nice. But option to having burst heal will be nice too.

passoline

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Would like cc option for tank or something cost effective outside class line

Even more necessary now that chains dont provide a soft taunt, so you cant cc mobs after a pull (be either chains or a vateshran bash proc) because the only acessible CC its fighters guild turn evil, which is pretty bad in terms of a cc tool (high stamina cost, fear so it doesnt bypass cc immunity like immobilize)

Rly would like to see a better CC tank tool for templars, and a heal alternative for tanks that doesnt involve stanting still on a rune or getting hit to wait for a proc.

Soris

Living Dark on stamplar (also for magplar) is great tool for defence. That coupled with vigor and extended ritual and with high enough weapon damage you can get 3k+ noncrit heals from each of them. The only downside is this living dark looks so ugly!

Personally i'd like to see Blazing Shield revived. Right now the cost is extremely high and the shield is so small to worth using thanks to battle spirit. And it doesnt really provide anything else than a tiny shield value in pvp, especially for no cp. Tho I'm still using it in pve just because the effect is so damn cool and it is actually very useful in dungeons. Wish it was once again useful in pvp too! I can see it could be perfect in battlegrounds and in sieges. I tried many build variations that uses blazing sheild and honesty it doesnt worth the effort. The skill is garbage in pvp.

Please bring BLAZING SHIELD back to life!

mmtaniac

I want stamina cost defense or kind of resource regen passive wchich is lower ,you get extra magicka or stamina, just look on other classes DK just ult and have all resources other classes have mechanics like this too. Passive to free sustan ,this way i can invest more in something different ,especially because templar passives are big pile of sh..... especially half of Dawn's Wrath tree and famous Soulgem passive on restoring light tree.

Soulgem passive should be something like ,healing that cost you soulgem when you have 1hp you get 50% hp heal(in pvp 25%) for free work once per minute or 2. And this will be nice and usefull soulgem passive

Prism and illuminate should be one passive like DK Mountain Blessing.

Enduring Rays is should be different and that 2 seconds should just be in those abilities.

Only good passives are in Aedric Spear tree ,but even there Burning Light Should work with every offensive direct damage abilities not only Aedric Spear abilities (old version of this passive was good to work with only Aedric Spear ,but current not) right now this passive force to use jabs and this is bad. Personally I love jabs ,but still we can't have option this way.

ealdwin

passoline wrote: »

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FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Would like cc option for tank or something cost effective outside class line

...
Rly would like to see a better CC tank tool for templars...

Soris wrote: »

...
Personally i'd like to see Blazing Shield revived.
...
Please bring BLAZING SHIELD back to life!

It's an older suggestion of mine, but still somewhat relevant:

Yeah, the lack of changes to Sun Shield is disappointing considering that it's an often unused skill, but one that could be better. I think a basic fix would be to change Blazing Shield to scale from Max Offensive Resource (Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher) and allow the damage to be dealt on recast as well as when the shield expires (Unstable WoE treatment). That way the skill becomes more useful as a defensive ability in PVP.

If they (being ZOS) really wanted to go all out, they'd change the 4% increase on Sun Shield to 9% increase per enemy hit, making Sun Shield in essence a more expensive Radiant Ward. Then, for Blazing Shield, do as I said before, but also increase the damage dealt to 35% of damage absorbed. Then, for Radiant Ward, cut the damage by 50% but also stun enemies hit for 4 seconds. In essence, make Radiant Ward the base morph, make one morph better for offensive-focused players, and the other morph with more utility for defensive-focused players.

Soris

Making Radiant Ward as the base skill is actually very neat idea. But its range and shield scaling should have 8 meter radius instead of 5. Because 5 meters is very tiny range tbh, same range as Rune Focus. In today's meta with everyone is being Flash, having insane speed, zooming in and out, it is very ineffective to have 5 meter range on any skill.

I like the idea making one morph more defensive oriented and the other offensive oriented. For the offensive one, the reflect damage should be much more bigger. Today with blazing shield you are hitting less than 1k damage after target's resistances and battle spirit (double reduced via shield and damage debuff)

The defensive morph should give either much bigger flat shield value or some other side effect like major protection or a heal over time

That above suggestions are just food for thought. It could be anything else. Something useful though.I think Sun Shield should be discussed more by fellow templars. Imagine stamplars utilizing Sun Shield with Vigor and Living Dark/or Spiked Bone Shield. It is the only skill in our class kit that prevents any kind of burst damage. And it has a potential to scale up based on how many people target you, which is not bad at all imo.

If Zos really want templars to stand in their circles, then Sun Shield is perfect tool for that kind of stand your ground gameplay. Normally when you are being focused you gotta kite and LoS as usual, but templar's number one weakness is once you kite, you are losing everything your circles provide you thru actives and passives, so you gotta recast them in your new position which is waste of 2 global cooldowns, and then probably you gotta relocate again. This usually makes you stuck in your back bar forever.

But imagine if you had a powerful Sun Shield you could stand in your circles instead of kiting and losing your buffs, and while you are defending yourself with Sun Shield you would be reflecting damage to the attackers, which would stop them to attack you for a second and this would buy you that crucial small window of going offensive. So this one skill right here could solve the biggest and number one weakness of the templar class

Living Dark is also good but I think an updated Sun Shield could do it much better and it would fit in the archetype very well.

IronWooshu

Hello, is it just me or does the Templar have the least amount of skills and passives available to them as a Stamina Templar? I agree that the Magicka Templar is in a good spot, PVE and PVP but the Stamina Templar has very little.

I think it would be cool if Stamina had a Stamina bubble (it would be original to the class), a Sun Shield that deals Stamina damage and while incased in the shield gives 2% of your stamina back for each enemy hit while increasing the shield size.

That would be original, also change Ritual of Retribution to deal damage by highest offensive stat and give Stamina a signature damage over time with Sunfire's Reflective Light morph making it deal disease damage and giving us Stamina Templar minor vulnerability against its target or can be something else.

techyeshic

IronWooshu wrote: »

Hello, is it just me or does the Templar have the least amount of skills and passives available to them as a Stamina Templar? I agree that the Magicka Templar is in a good spot, PVE and PVP but the Stamina Templar has very little.

I think it would be cool if Stamina had a Stamina bubble (it would be original to the class), a Sun Shield that deals Stamina damage and while incased in the shield gives 2% of your stamina back for each enemy hit while increasing the shield size.

That would be original, also change Ritual of Retribution to deal damage by highest offensive stat and give Stamina a signature damage over time with Sunfire's Reflective Light morph making it deal disease damage and giving us Stamina Templar minor vulnerability against its target or can be something else.

It would go a long way to have mending impact non-templar abilities to give stam templars a bit more healing flavor.

Stx

Living dark should also scale from weapon damage. Stamina templar needs at least one class based heal... since ritual of retribution was nerfed.

ealdwin

Perhaps the answer (to healing) may lie in a larger rethinking of Templar class than just focusing on individual skills.

Consider, perhaps, if the healing for % of damage done was moved from Sweeps, and to its own ability. After all, of all the classes would it not make the most sense for Templars to have an ability that healed from doing damage—the perfect union of Destruction and Restoration. Perhaps this could be part of a reworked Restoring Aura?

It's not a perfect idea, but one that may free up the need for so many different heals to be attached to different abilities for different roles.

ealdwin

Also, whoever said they don't like the bubble on Living Dark, yes. Agreed.

Especially with the seam issue it has going on. (Unless that was fixed and I missed it).

One of Templar's less crucial issues, is their visual reliance on self-auras and lights. Every self applied ability has some sort of glow it places on the character. A Templar with Solar Barrage, Living Dark, Sun Shield, and Crescent Sweep Ult up is a lightbulb.

mmtaniac

m

ealdwin wrote: »

Perhaps the answer (to healing) may lie in a larger rethinking of Templar class than just focusing on individual skills.

Consider, perhaps, if the healing for % of damage done was moved from Sweeps, and to its own ability. After all, of all the classes would it not make the most sense for Templars to have an ability that healed from doing damage—the perfect union of Destruction and Restoration. Perhaps this could be part of a reworked Restoring Aura?

It's not a perfect idea, but one that may free up the need for so many different heals to be attached to different abilities for different roles.

Healing from damage done buff as ability will be nice addition ,but this way other abilities should lost that extra healing. This way stamplar and tankplar will get that extra healing and magplar will lost his exclusivenes. I just want extra healing on stamplar for me current state is bad and not enough especially on high mmr bg. I use Living dark ,Rally, vigor ,ritual (healing is useless most of the time and rune heal too) have 34k hp and pariah + 6500 weapon damage still not enough heal. If i play on warden with items like this i can survive easy and heal self easy.

Minno

I never liked the templar when they removed alot of their ground AOE mechanics and pushed the class more into a jabs spam. I still watch old Divine Cross videos when he used to rock eclipse to bait emperors into reflecting their own ultimates for huge burst damage or timed ultmates after a dark flare cast into a gap closer.

My major pain points:
- Templar's healing class and stand your ground identity given to other classes and they do it better (warden healing+buffs/necromancer stand your ground)
- sun shield underutilized as a defense mechanic
- jesus beam ripped out a core defensive system from the templar
- jabs overused as spamable dps with burning light changed to basically be a passive that increases jabs dmg
- channels underutilized and underpowered (except for jabs)
- healing tree locked to magplar
- stamplar has no identity

I will say that they made strides in fixing some of these, especially unlocking more healing or restoring light tree for stamplar:
- rune focus and morphs give a max health based hot while standing in it
- ritual heals based on max stat
- 10% block added back by only after using rune focus
- increased overall dmg and mitigation though balanced warrior

Ideally for me they need to rally around a different core identity for the templar. personally I would figure out ways to give debuffs as a core identity or ways to turn around dmg because that is one aspect of the game not utilized. So instead of raw dmg buffs, you use spells to turn defense into offense as a core gameplay mechanic (open spoiler if you want to read my personal changes to emphasis this but I will accept any that zennimax designs over these as long as they go back to the core identity of 2014 which had alot of these types of effects):

Spoiler

- burning light changed to grant full tooltip dmg when you apply 3 or more debuffs to a target. Or when you take x numbers of hits, you convert next x hits into burning light procs.
- blazing shield to be thorns dmg instead of a shield. 4% extra dmg per target in 4m range, soak dmg up in 6s and then burst it out. Give a thorns buff for x seconds after burst.
- dark flare - remove empower and buff dmg by 40% or bring back the old 40% extra dmg on next ability mechanic.
- vamps bane gets 100% dmg mechanic against vamps/daedric/undead
- radiant glory gets a self buff cast mechanic that converts dmg done to you into execute dmg done to the target that ramps up based on their health left.
- illuminate passive reduces target spell/weapon dmg for any target impacted by a dawns wrath ability. Remove minor spell power. I am fine with a class not having major or minor sorcery now that balanced warrior gives a flat percentage to it and if they get some of these cool utility spells.
- remove major protection and armor off rite of passage and morphs. Instead add one morph with super raw healing and one that has no healing but adds increased stamina cost to spells to all enemies in area.
- hasty prayer gets a speed cap to 6 targets increased but also reduce speed of enemies in area. Also give snare/immobilze immunity to yourself similar to psjic skill but keep the cost high due to the debuff mechanic.
- purfying ritual gets changed to cap at 2 or 3 debuffs per cast. But instead adds debuff removal every 2s for 26s when you stand in the circle.
- mastery ritualist add crit resistance to anyone in AOE circles
- change power of the light color to yellow.
- unstable core - change to a 1 step retaliate mechanic. Remove snare and keep immobilize. add timed burst back.
- remove minor mending from sacred ground. Just add x% to restoring light abilities to anyone standing in circles.
- solar barrage gets minor defile
- explosive charge gets AOE silence but dmg is removed. Renamed to Templar's Fervor
- spear wall passive changed to just return debuffs to attackers when receiving a magic based status attack
- enduring rays passive increases duration and effectiveness of debuffs against enemy targets by x%
- restoring spirit add another effect. when you get hit by direct magic damage, reduce the cost of your next sun shield, healing ritual, or eclipse by x%

Other than this, they also need to remove animation canceling except for specific abilities or conditions and then further allow those instances per class. Like templars shouldn't get to animation cancel, but they should have things that return that dmg back per each GCD and have channels that are super impactful to balance out the fact they have strong AOE conditions that can be backbarred or cast and forget till duration is up. Nightblades should have animation canceling in some form, but overall being terrible group class with almost no debuffs aside from a poison synergy or limited debuffs gained from weapons. etc. Maybe block doesnt allow to animation cancel since it negates alot of cc's, but dodge should, etc. Stuff like that helps to create rules to play and players are not very reliably for feedback anyway since we only want to dominate.

And they really need to select a gamemode and rally behind it. For example, if CP is the future, then remove nCP. If no proc sets is the future, then do no proc. Or if you want more pvp sets to be used, lock the sets to pvp sets only. etc. There are ways to balance the classes around those two points alone. Compiling feedback based on CP or nCP templar alone must be a nightmare to try to figure out. I think just use CP but lock procs out should be done and then go back and give classes more skills or identity back to make up for the procs removing alot of active power from the players.

techyeshic

There's a name I have not seen for a minute

Drdeath20

This thread has existed for years. ZoS doesn’t care. I feel this needs to be said.

Every class has some sub optimal, poorly thought out skill. These skills are soo niche that it make’s me wonder if ZoS even has any idea how to play their own game. Then again the game has changed from its original design. When all is said and done nearly all PvE roles are homogenized by a few very useful world skills and armor sets.

Templars are just the winners in terms of having the most amount of sub-optimal skills, ultimates and passives in their class toolkits.

Just make another class, move on and accept that what could have been will never be.