[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »@Destruent what i see is that sweeps does less dmg (14k max) than elemental weapon (35k dmg).
14k*4 = 56k but really you ought to be looking at the average, 25k for eleweapon and 10k*4= 40k for sweeps. less casts for sweeps then ele weapon too, 65 casts vs sweeps 50.
It's also worth mentioning, that sweeps increases your dps from burning light by ~1k dps, while elemental increases your dps with burning/concussion/chilled.
Sweeps also pulls ahead if there are adds next to the boss or if you need the selfheal (e.g. vSS last boss portal team)
I may also add, that someone already showed, that sweeps can weaved as fast as elemental weapon, which makes it stronger imo...seems like I'm just too slow for that.
Edit: stupid autocorrect....
You aren't too slow. With the change to the GCD the weave timing changed. Want an easy way to aim for it --- tap LA on the 3rd jab, the 4th and the LA fire near simultaneously that way.
I would rather not have to rely my weaving on attention to tunnel vision on Jabs/Sweeps because doing so causes us to lose attention on our LOS around us. Being that channeling our main spammable already puts us at high risk by not being able to animation cancel, block cancel, defend while attack, etc...this is just an extremely LAZY approach on part of ZOS to Templar players.
Jabs/Sweeps should NOT be a Channel...It should be an Instant Cast ability that targets Target and has AOE Splash damage. Get rid of the poor Conal hit box and channel and problems are basically solved with this skill. If you want to keep as a channel, still make it on Target and not Cone Radius but reduce the Channel time to .2s per Jab/Sweep, reduce the number of sweeps to 3 from 4 - increase damage per sweep to compensate.
Losing a hit on it means losing a chance to proc Burning Light --- 4 hits/s on a 0.5s CD passive gives us 4 chances minimum to proc, 5 spear shards down.
Practicing your rotation has nothing to do with you having tunnel vision---it's just fine tuning the muscle memory to the new sweet spot---a little practice, and your situational awareness will remain as is.
If they want to get rid of the channel, that's fine, but remember that sweeps does not function in isolation, as Burning Light is a component of it's damage, so if it is going to become a single cast high damage skill, with a splash rider (like Crystal Blast) then the functionality of Burning Light or the damage on proc is going to have to be increased as well, to not result in a net DPS loss.
Test it yourself with a dummy --- doesn't matter which one, just set a window, and use a 1/s skill (spear shards) vs jabs -- and compare burning light procs and damage.
Rough and dirty here:
Test 1
64s of Blazing Spear = 21 Burning Light procs
64s of Sweeps = 33 Burning Light procs
Test 2
8s (1 cast) Blazing Spear = 1 Burning Light procs
8s Sweeps (8 casts) = 4 Burning Light procs
Test 3
62s Blazing Spear = 18 Burning Light procs
58s Sweeps = 32 Burning Light procs
Test 4
Spam Cast Blazing Spear full bar: 27s = 7 Burning Light procs
Space Cast Sweeps full bar: 16s = 9 Burning Light procs
Test 5:
Sweeps full bar = 9 BL procs
Blazing Spear full bar = 5 BL procs
Test 6: 10s, 10s, 8s
Aurora Javelin Spam Cast: 3 BL, 11 hits
Sweeps: 5 BL, 36 hits
Blazing Spear: 3 BL proc, 9 hits
Test 7: 60s, w/ recovery food
Sweeps: 39 BL procs
Blazing: 13 BL procs
Test 8: 60s, w/ recovery food
Sweeps+Blazing: 35 BL procs
Test 9: 60s, w/ recovery food
Aurora Javelin+Blazing: 18 BL procs
That is a lot of damage that would have to be adjusted in to make Sweeps into an instant cast skill. Changing sweeps to single target would necessitate changing Burning Light also --- either into straight penetration, or guaranteed proc per second, at which point Blazing is going to need to be adjusted down on it's damage to retain balance.
0.5s CD on the skill, 120 possible procs on PERFECT CD, that 25% chance makes 30 hits pretty good on it in a 60s window --- and Sweeps hits more of those procs by being a 4 hit channel.
Can look at the Elemental Weapon vs Sweeps parse above also: 99 Burning Light procs with Sweeps vs 72 without, averaging 15-16k (better crit luck on one parse, by ~9%)....That's giving up 405k damage...
I remember @ZOS_Gilliam suggesting in his youtube video to remove that 0.5 sec CD on burning light to make the class more aoe oriented.
I guess he forgot everything after being hired by Zenimax.
Id rather have them focus on bugfixing before changing anything else.
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Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?Edited by Delparis on June 15, 2019 6:27PM0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭@Cinbri
Spear and dawn trees are both offensive trees with a defensive aspect or two.
Cresent doesn't need a buff. It's 72 ultimate that procs burning light and has a pbaoe dot. Adding anything would certainly warrant a cost increase which in completely against.3 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »@Cinbri
Spear and dawn trees are both offensive trees with a defensive aspect or two.
Cresent doesn't need a buff. It's 72 ultimate that procs burning light and has a pbaoe dot. Adding anything would certainly warrant a cost increase which in completely against.
Totally agree!0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?
Can someone say what is this ?0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?
Can someone say what is this ?
i'm pretty sure, it's only an rounding error in the tooltip.
This image is from 3 years ago:
afaik there was no change between this image and the video.Noobplar0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?
Can someone say what is this ?
i'm pretty sure, it's only an rounding error in the tooltip.
This image is from 3 years ago:
afaik there was no change between this image and the video.
no way, if that was true Gillam would have noticed that.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?
Can someone say what is this ?
i'm pretty sure, it's only an rounding error in the tooltip.
This image is from 3 years ago:
afaik there was no change between this image and the video.
no way, if that was true Gillam would have noticed that.
I am 100% sure he was just being imprecise in his speech. It has always been 1.1 second cast time.
Edit: having watched the video, the Tooltip indeed just says 1 second, not 1.1 like the Tooltip that is posted here in GermanEdited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on June 16, 2019 12:00PM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?
Can someone say what is this ?
i'm pretty sure, it's only an rounding error in the tooltip.
This image is from 3 years ago:
afaik there was no change between this image and the video.
no way, if that was true Gillam would have noticed that.
I just searched Patchnotes for big Updates between November 2017 and July 2016...puncturing sweeps wasn't even touched at all. Could also be an addon or something, idk...but sweeps/jabs in general has always been a 1.1 second channel.Noobplar0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Just found out that Puncturing strikes were 1 sec channeled ability in the video of gillam (16:07)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umLq2mzKEvI
That's a video of november 2017.
But when i read the patch notes v5.0.5 it says:
"Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!"
The *** ? did they revert back a change and sold it as a new one ?
@Checkmath do you have any idea about this please ?
Can someone say what is this ?
i'm pretty sure, it's only an rounding error in the tooltip.
This image is from 3 years ago:
afaik there was no change between this image and the video.
no way, if that was true Gillam would have noticed that.
I just searched Patchnotes for big Updates between November 2017 and July 2016...puncturing sweeps wasn't even touched at all. Could also be an addon or something, idk...but sweeps/jabs in general has always been a 1.1 second channel.
Zenimax always stealth nerf thing
remember when they stealth nerfed puncturning sweep to cost more and heal less ?Edited by Delparis on June 16, 2019 12:37PM0 -
Dexxadude✭✭Templar as it stands does not have ay CC such as DK talons, Sorc encase, DK immobilise, Nightblade also as CC control.Necro is rediculous for CC. Templar is just really weak1
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Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Templar as it stands does not have ay CC such as DK talons, Sorc encase, DK immobilise, Nightblade also as CC control.Necro is rediculous for CC. Templar is just really weak
from my wow pvp experience, i can tell that the best class for pvp is the one with the best cc
maybe that's why templar sucks in pvp0 -
Vajrak✭✭✭Templar as it stands does not have ay CC such as DK talons, Sorc encase, DK immobilise, Nightblade also as CC control.Necro is rediculous for CC. Templar is just really weak
from my wow pvp experience, i can tell that the best class for pvp is the one with the best cc
maybe that's why templar sucks in pvp
Templar started sucking in PvP when they "Fixed" jabs/sweeps from you had to move around it to now it moves--center point you used to be able to strafe around, now your character is the center point so it's easier to miss it with a little latency because getting a good strafe on it takes a lot of micro and macro movements at once.1 -
miteba✭✭✭✭Templar as it stands does not have ay CC such as DK talons, Sorc encase, DK immobilise, Nightblade also as CC control.Necro is rediculous for CC. Templar is just really weak
from my wow pvp experience, i can tell that the best class for pvp is the one with the best cc
maybe that's why templar sucks in pvp
I agree that templar should have an hard cc since neither charge/toppling or javelin are.
Good old times when shards had stun ...
At the same time, wouldnt we be too OP, with a hard CC? Since so many things changed after that...
I think we dont have that CC because, if i'm not mistaken, we are the only class with a burst heal, without conditions...0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭Templar as it stands does not have ay CC such as DK talons, Sorc encase, DK immobilise, Nightblade also as CC control.Necro is rediculous for CC. Templar is just really weak
from my wow pvp experience, i can tell that the best class for pvp is the one with the best cc
maybe that's why templar sucks in pvp
I agree that templar should have an hard cc since neither charge/toppling or javelin are.
Good old times when shards had stun ...
At the same time, wouldnt we be too OP, with a hard CC? Since so many things changed after that...
I think we dont have that CC because, if i'm not mistaken, we are the only class with a burst heal, without conditions...
Toppling is a hard cc. And very effective at close range.
It may be blockable and dodgable, but it's a gap closer, deals up front damage that can proc burning light, procs off balance reliably enough has many positive impacts on damage and sustain, and it looks sweet.
The skill does a lot. It's not the best cc for terms off simply cc. But go ahead and get try to fossilize that sorc streaking away, or that sniper at max range whos just launched a snipe and casting another.2 -
miteba✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »Toppling is a hard cc. And very effective at close range.
(...)
The skill does a lot. It's not the best cc for terms off simply cc.
I agree that toppling is a great cc for templar, as you said, it is a great gap closer, stuns, does a good amount of damage and applies off balance...
But i dont see toppling as an hard cc although tooltip refers 3sec stun... I see it as a light cc which makes sense, if not, would be hell of OP.
Or my game is bugged, or it only "brings down" the enemy because i dont see the 3 sec stun ever... As opposite to our old shards where i really could stun the enemy.0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »Toppling is a hard cc. And very effective at close range.
(...)
The skill does a lot. It's not the best cc for terms off simply cc.
I agree that toppling is a great cc for templar, as you said, it is a great gap closer, stuns, does a good amount of damage and applies off balance...
But i dont see toppling as an hard cc although tooltip refers 3sec stun... I see it as a light cc which makes sense, if not, would be hell of OP.
Or my game is bugged, or it only "brings down" the enemy because i dont see the 3 sec stun ever... As opposite to our old shards where i really could stun the enemy.
Hard ccs deny your opponent control of thier character until they break free or the stun ends. Toppling is a hard cc. Soft cc is a root or snare.1 -
miteba✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »Hard ccs deny your opponent control of thier character until they break free or the stun ends. Toppling is a hard cc. Soft cc is a root or snare.
I know the official "difference" between both descriptions, but to me toppling charge cc works definitly as an soft cc.
I dont remember, for a very long time, to apply a toppling charge and stun/root the enemy for 3sec
In PvE, my animation shows the impact of toppling, which after that mobs react as they react in a snare/off balance skill.
I never see them stunned as when i apply DK petrify; Sorc encase or streak; NB fear or warden Artic Blast, for instance.
In PvP, i dont see my "toppled" enemies cc Break as i dont remember using cc break when they use it against me...
As the name implies, toppling charge, is to charge the enemy and knock him down.
Tooltip refers 3 sec stun which feels strange to me, since i dont see it or even recall it, so:
1 - my skill is 99% clunky
2 - Im so immersed that i dont even recall it stun the players/mobs (which means i must reassess my emotional skillplay)
Edited by miteba on June 19, 2019 4:42PM0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »Hard ccs deny your opponent control of thier character until they break free or the stun ends. Toppling is a hard cc. Soft cc is a root or snare.
I know the official "difference" between both descriptions, but to me toppling charge cc works definitly as an soft cc.
I dont remember, for a very long time, to apply a toppling charge and stun/root the enemy for 3sec
In PvE, my animation shows the impact of toppling, which after that mobs react as they react in a snare/off balance skill.
I never see them stunned as when i apply DK petrify or stonefist; Sorc encase or streak; NB fear or warden Artic Blast, for instance.
In PvP, i dont see my "toppled" enemies cc Break as i dont remember using cc break when they use it against me...
As the name implies, toppling charge, is to charge the enemy and knock him down.
Tooltip refers 3 sec stun which feels strange to me, since i dont see it or even recall it, so:
1 - my skill is 99% clunky
2 - Im so immersed that i dont even recall it stun the players/mobs (which means i must reassess my emotional skillplay)
You're just not paying attention. They literally get knocked on the ground. You know if they cc break it stops the stun, so the only ppl getting ccd for 3 seconds after bad players generally. It's a hard cc, regardless of what it is "to you".2 -
miteba✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »You're just not paying attention. They literally get knocked on the ground. You know if they cc break it stops the stun, so the only ppl getting ccd for 3 seconds after bad players generally. It's a hard cc, regardless of what it is "to you".
Yeah probably not paying attention, since i play mostly at night, many times at solo, and i can definitely see that after hours you encounter less but much more skilled players.
In daytime till 23 o'clock there are much more zergs which means different aproaches and more ranged combat overall
In IC after hours, combats are much more skillfull for instance... I can roam there without finding anyone for some time, but when i find i know that it will be a hell of a fight, so cc breaks are almost an instinct reactionEdited by miteba on June 19, 2019 4:57PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »You're just not paying attention. They literally get knocked on the ground. You know if they cc break it stops the stun, so the only ppl getting ccd for 3 seconds after bad players generally. It's a hard cc, regardless of what it is "to you".
Yeah probably not paying attention, since i play mostly at night, many times at solo, and i can definitely see that after hours you encounter less but much more skilled players.
In daytime till 23 o'clock there are much more zergs which means different aproaches and more ranged combat overall
In IC after hours, combats are much more skillfull for instance... I can roam there without finding anyone for some time, but when i find i know that it will be a hell of a fight, so cc breaks are almost an instinct reaction
hes saying theres only two types of cc's hard and soft. toppling is hard because it pysically stops the target from moving/casting spells.
soft cc is something like snare/immobile. Since they can still cast abilities.
exception is total dark. its a mix of the two mechanically, except mostly comprised of the weaknesses of both (can be cc broke, doesnt impact target actions, and doesnt snare/immobilze so target can still move).Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »You're just not paying attention. They literally get knocked on the ground. You know if they cc break it stops the stun, so the only ppl getting ccd for 3 seconds after bad players generally. It's a hard cc, regardless of what it is "to you".
Yeah probably not paying attention, since i play mostly at night, many times at solo, and i can definitely see that after hours you encounter less but much more skilled players.
In daytime till 23 o'clock there are much more zergs which means different aproaches and more ranged combat overall
In IC after hours, combats are much more skillfull for instance... I can roam there without finding anyone for some time, but when i find i know that it will be a hell of a fight, so cc breaks are almost an instinct reaction
hes saying theres only two types of cc's hard and soft. toppling is hard because it pysically stops the target from moving/casting spells.
soft cc is something like snare/immobile. Since they can still cast abilities.
exception is total dark. its a mix of the two mechanically, except mostly comprised of the weaknesses of both (can be cc broke, doesnt impact target actions, and doesnt snare/immobilze so target can still move).
Immobilize is a hard CC - you cannot cast skills or move, but you can break free. I think you meant root or snare are soft CC's.
For example, DK's Fossilize is comprised of both soft and hard in one skill - first you are Immobilized, then rooted.0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭Speaking of Templar toolkit specifically, we have for Hard CC's: Piercing Javelin and Focused Charge. However, for Soft CC's we have: Snare from Puncturing Strikes, Snare from Sun Fire, and Snare from Passive Sacred Ground while enemies are standing in radius of Rune Focus, Cleansing Ritual or Rite of Passage.
Talk about Redundancies!!!!!!
The only exception to both Hard CC and Soft CC is Eclipse (and Morphs) which follows the rules of neither. The skill does not perform any of the following functions to an enemy: Snare, Root, Immobilize, Stun, Silence and therefore should not apply a CC Immunity to the target.
ZOS needs to get their *** together and audit our class properly. We do not have any means of Crowd Control in the form of an AOE CC (Bring back Stun to Shards - it's not that OP...)
Life will go on, much like the list of needed changes for this class.1 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Dudes forget about templar buff and nerf, the class is *** anyway no matter what they do. Better forget it even exists.
Go try sorc, that's where the good *** is
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EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Speaking of Templar toolkit specifically, we have for Hard CC's: Piercing Javelin and Focused Charge. However, for Soft CC's we have: Snare from Puncturing Strikes, Snare from Sun Fire, and Snare from Passive Sacred Ground while enemies are standing in radius of Rune Focus, Cleansing Ritual or Rite of Passage.
Talk about Redundancies!!!!!!
The only exception to both Hard CC and Soft CC is Eclipse (and Morphs) which follows the rules of neither. The skill does not perform any of the following functions to an enemy: Snare, Root, Immobilize, Stun, Silence and therefore should not apply a CC Immunity to the target.
ZOS needs to get their *** together and audit our class properly. We do not have any means of Crowd Control in the form of an AOE CC (Bring back Stun to Shards - it's not that OP...)
Life will go on, much like the list of needed changes for this class.
Shards was never a multi target stun. Fossilize is a stun and then an immobilize.
So many nay sayers that just want templars to work like another class. Just play the other classes ffs.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Toppling is fing amazing this patch, i even use it on stamplar for stun/gapclose/offbalance.
Javelin still has its range as an advantage, altough i wish it was cheaper like scatter shot.
I dunno how an unavoidable stun would help templars, we already have the tools to deal with both dodging and blocking enemies.
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Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Dudes i'm playing as a sorc atm in pvp i come a cross 2 templars spamming Radiant Depression
with full shields i bearly take any damage.
I always know how that skill was trash but didn't notice it until now
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StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really wish Solar Barrage would afflict opponents with major defile instead of granting me empower. It's a frigging one trick pony and as much as I need melee tools, I can't stop opponents from healing through the damage I deal. It's frustrating AF that as a Templar I see DKs and Sorcs getting off bigger heals than me. I am having a hard time finishing opponents because they go from 20% health back to full in one second. And radiant oppression can be out healed.1 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »I really wish Solar Barrage would afflict opponents with major defile instead of granting me empower. It's a frigging one trick pony and as much as I need melee tools, I can't stop opponents from healing through the damage I deal. It's frustrating AF that as a Templar I see DKs and Sorcs getting off bigger heals than me. I am having a hard time finishing opponents because they go from 20% health back to full in one second. And radiant oppression can be out healed.
Your gears outdated.0