[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Drdeath20

Templars need a true audit.

Drdeath20

Sun shield should have blinding flashes attached to it and the only way to counter it is with radiant aura or detection pots.

If you think this is OP theres something that exists thats better.

Dunning_Kruger

Idk; this is my main class and I can tell you it feels borderline overpowered. If they buff this class again it will be unquestionably overpowered.

StarOfElyon

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Idk; this is my main class and I can tell you it feels borderline overpowered. If they buff this class again it will be unquestionably overpowered.

What are you wearing?

Dunning_Kruger

If I am by myself I run 5 medium spriggans /seventh bloodspawn in group play I run trollkings same load out and drop beastrap from my bar. My duo partner is a 5 light magplar with 0 protective that hits harder than me and still tanks.



You can see in the beginning of this video how dumb tanky you can be as a templar if you rune and cleanse.


I’ll be honest if they buff templar anymore it’s going to be Templar’s online. I think my cleanse is a bit overloaded but I love it but it doesn’t mean I won’t recognize that is an amazing mag dump.

Neoauspex

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Idk; this is my main class and I can tell you it feels borderline overpowered. If they buff this class again it will be unquestionably overpowered.

I agree in that I feel in a really good spot on my build, but I wouldn't say "overpowered" necessarily because I think the same build would work similarly or better on other classes due to better passives. Really the only thing missing from my kit on another class would be cleanse, and even that is available on the new classes. If they do a pass on the passives text patch I'll be both terrified and excited.

StarOfElyon

Oh, you're stamplar. Stamina is really strong after this patch.

Dunning_Kruger

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Oh, you're stamplar. Stamina is really strong after this patch.

Yeah but my partner in the same clip is a magplar in 5 light 0 protective tanking like 5-6 ep and then doing the majority of the damage. Magplar is strong mate; just don’t run dual swords; don’t run vampire use RAT; don’t not use a source of minor Magica steal. Use a sword and board turtle bar.

The best magplars in the game have as of late used the destro staff front bar for a while since the destro buff and back bar S&B.

To name a few

Lyser; leinova;moontan;DonJay(when he played it); joshlenoir

BNOC

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Oh, you're stamplar. Stamina is really strong after this patch.

Yeah but my partner in the same clip is a magplar in 5 light 0 protective tanking like 5-6 ep and then doing the majority of the damage. Magplar is strong mate; just don’t run dual swords; don’t run vampire use RAT; don’t not use a source of minor Magica steal. Use a sword and board turtle bar.

The best magplars in the game have as of late used the destro staff front bar for a while since the destro buff and back bar S&B.

To name a few

Lyser; leinova;moontan;DonJay(when he played it); joshlenoir

When we're talking about equal skill - Do you think that you and your friend could beat yourselves with other classes though?

I don't think anyone doubts that Templars of either spec can kill Cyrodil potatoes, but against equally skilled opponents on different classes, you might have issues.

Dunning_Kruger

The people I listed do and have beat equally competent players; because they play the class correctly.

Minno

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

If I am by myself I run 5 medium spriggans /seventh bloodspawn in group play I run trollkings same load out and drop beastrap from my bar. My duo partner is a 5 light magplar with 0 protective that hits harder than me and still tanks.



You can see in the beginning of this video how dumb tanky you can be as a templar if you rune and cleanse.


I’ll be honest if they buff templar anymore it’s going to be Templar’s online. I think my cleanse is a bit overloaded but I love it but it doesn’t mean I won’t recognize that is an amazing mag dump.

LOL "TEMPLAR IS OVERPOWERED" ::fights teribad zerg that doesnt block cc's nor uses their ccs and proceeds to slot seige at top of tower to fill in with jabs::

Dunning_Kruger

Minno you don’t use a destro staff on a magplar and admitted to not light weaving. Your opinion is invalid sit down.

Minno

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Minno you don’t use a destro staff on a magplar and admitted to not light weaving. Your opinion is invalid sit down.

I do use a destro; I swap between them both from time to time. I also know a zerg potato smash when I see one.

BNOC

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

The people I listed do and have beat equally competent players; because they play the class correctly.

So do I but I have to work a lot harder to beat them on my Templar (Main since release) than I do on other classes.

All I was saying was, if you could outdo yourself on another class or, perform better than you are currently, then Templar obviously isn't in the best spot - It has always been good in great hands but other classes can be great in good hands.

Neoauspex

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Minno you don’t use a destro staff on a magplar and admitted to not light weaving. Your opinion is invalid sit down.

I run DW, it's easy to light weave now that our gap closer works, and there's some really good reasons that I'm gonna just leave off the table until ZoS nerfs everything next patch.

Dunning_Kruger

All I said was the class was borderline overpowered. If it gets buffed and the fix the channel timing bug it will be overpowered. Cleanse in a dot heavy meta is insanely strong and your spammable procs burning light.
I’m not sure what you guys want; the class buff that lets you fight good players while outnumbered? If you can’t win 1v1 on magplar then slot shadowrend necropotence and use a Cc. The class isn’t in a bad spot is all I’m saying. If you take stamplar that is significantly better than myself like jack215 on Eu you would see how strong it is. And if you make it any stronger there is gonna be a serious templar problem in cyro.

Minno

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

All I said was the class was borderline overpowered. If it gets buffed and the fix the channel timing bug it will be overpowered. Cleanse in a dot heavy meta is insanely strong and your spammable procs burning light.
I’m not sure what you guys want; the class buff that lets you fight good players while outnumbered? If you can’t win 1v1 on magplar then slot shadowrend necropotence and use a Cc. The class isn’t in a bad spot is all I’m saying. If you take stamplar that is significantly better than myself like jack215 on Eu you would see how strong it is. And if you make it any stronger there is gonna be a serious templar problem in cyro.

There are aspects of it that are bad and some that are good. Some of those bad areas puts it below other classes, because it makes it feel clunky (though they did a good job alleviating this patch a little bit of that clunkiness with the gap closer buff, then again that's not really a templar buff anymore than an overall game buff lol).

We are all basically saying the same thing; just different perspectives.

Dunning_Kruger

Ideally I just don’t want the class to be overtuned and then ZoS balanced back 6 feet under.

Delparis

BNOC wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

this can be solved by changing the Honor the dead morph to give a hot instead of magicka back
honor the dead (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself or a wounded ally in front of you for 1273 Health. Healing anyone who is below 75% gives 60% of the initial heal over 6 seconds.

Also change Breath of Life to be more useful
Breath of Life (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself AND a wounded ally in front of you for 1233 Health.

Checkmath wrote: »

sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

rework Blazing shield so it would give 50% health shield
Blazing shield (New)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 2623 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off 50% your Max Health. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 20% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies

I've run some tests with excel to check if op or not


Also i think Puncturing strikes should remove the snare and swap that with minor berserk to make it worth sloting in pve
Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Gives minor berserk for 3 sec.

@Checkmath

You wont get minor berserk on jabs, devs dont want that.

ok maybe increase the dmg in this case same way Rapid Strikes does but with more % due to the difference between the channel time (1 sec vs 0.6 sec for Rapid Strikes)

Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Each hit increases the damage of the subsequent hit by 5%.
You Heal for 40% of the damage done with this ability.

@Checkmath

Just stop sweeps being mitigated the way they are and sort out the animations as per Joy's post and they'll be pretty good I reckon.

Sure that's another way to improve this skill.
Maybe make the closest hit a direct dmg and the other hits aoe. also make the animation last for 0.6 sec like Rapid strikes.

This is still assumptions, because only checkmath can pass the word to devs and only them can decide whether to make the change or not.

btw i dont know if devs are those who decide to make the change. where i work, it's the business analyst (BA) who write the specification for the devs who only code and test before integration.

Minno

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Ideally I just don’t want the class to be overtuned and then ZoS balanced back 6 feet under.

neither do we.

Nirnroot420

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

All I said was the class was borderline overpowered. If it gets buffed and the fix the channel timing bug it will be overpowered. Cleanse in a dot heavy meta is insanely strong and your spammable procs burning light.
I’m not sure what you guys want; the class buff that lets you fight good players while outnumbered? If you can’t win 1v1 on magplar then slot shadowrend necropotence and use a Cc. The class isn’t in a bad spot is all I’m saying. If you take stamplar that is significantly better than myself like jack215 on Eu you would see how strong it is. And if you make it any stronger there is gonna be a serious templar problem in cyro.

You're absolutely correct and the class absolutely got a buffed to fighting outnumbered with the buffs to Solar Barrage and Blazing Spear, both of which allow you to keep strong pressure on an opponent even when you're playing defensive on your backbar. Magplar is definitely borderline OP in the right hands and only animation wonkiness is preventing it from being a killing machine.

I'm mag though, and this patch I've yet to see a solo stamplar that was a threat to anyone aside from absolute potatoes, in Cyrodiil, and especially high MMR BGs, where save a few notable exceptions stamplars are simply non-existent.

technohic

My comment last night when running with a couple of guildies was I love magplar right now, except for it being magicka."

I mean a stun that does off balance, a nice cheap ulti, a precast solar barrage to add uncleansable pressure. Even radiant ward which is not much for defense but has a decent splash with it where im keeping pressure on in a sense when I reapply it. It's just gaurds spamming negates on you while you're trying to deal with actual threats in enemy players. So it's not bad, as it's really just the more favorable environment for stam. Looking at other magicka classes, I dont think we are far off

StarOfElyon

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Oh, you're stamplar. Stamina is really strong after this patch.

Yeah but my partner in the same clip is a magplar in 5 light 0 protective tanking like 5-6 ep and then doing the majority of the damage. Magplar is strong mate; just don’t run dual swords; don’t run vampire use RAT; don’t not use a source of minor Magica steal. Use a sword and board turtle bar.

The best magplars in the game have as of late used the destro staff front bar for a while since the destro buff and back bar S&B.

To name a few

Lyser; leinova;moontan;DonJay(when he played it); joshlenoir

I play in no-CP (BG). I have no idea what MMR I'm in but I know that I'm not tanking a dam thing there. The minute I step on the scene I'm getting tag teamed, dawn breaker + pestilent colossus put on me. And I'm not wearing any defensive set.

Dunning_Kruger

Ah no cp BGs ; just run bloodspawn and a protective jewelry or two while you learn mate.

StarOfElyon

Nirnroot420 wrote: »

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

All I said was the class was borderline overpowered. If it gets buffed and the fix the channel timing bug it will be overpowered. Cleanse in a dot heavy meta is insanely strong and your spammable procs burning light.
I’m not sure what you guys want; the class buff that lets you fight good players while outnumbered? If you can’t win 1v1 on magplar then slot shadowrend necropotence and use a Cc. The class isn’t in a bad spot is all I’m saying. If you take stamplar that is significantly better than myself like jack215 on Eu you would see how strong it is. And if you make it any stronger there is gonna be a serious templar problem in cyro.

You're absolutely correct and the class absolutely got a buffed to fighting outnumbered with the buffs to Solar Barrage and Blazing Spear, both of which allow you to keep strong pressure on an opponent even when you're playing defensive on your backbar. Magplar is definitely borderline OP in the right hands and only animation wonkiness is preventing it from being a killing machine.

I'm mag though, and this patch I've yet to see a solo stamplar that was a threat to anyone aside from absolute potatoes, in Cyrodiil, and especially high MMR BGs, where save a few notable exceptions stamplars are simply non-existent.

Stamplars are just there to use PoL, dawnbreaker and jabs. The only time they kill me is when my back is turned because I'm trying to clinch a kill.

Delparis

jabs are weak

1 sec locked animation more than enough time for me to cc him ans stop the dmg

Firstmep

Since this patch has been out for a bit now, i think its a good time to share my thoughts.
Magplar: we were doing pretty well last patch, but its a completely different level now. Cresent sweep lands much more reliably than before, and as a whole our aoe toolkit is much stronger.
Off balance on toppling charge is a huge dmg boost in cp.
Im not really affected by dark flare a d eclipse nerfs as i didnt use them much anyway.

Stamplar: the combination of the higher healing from ritual and and the nerf to befoul made it much easier to fight aganisg heavy armor s/b tanky brawlers.
Our damage remains unchanged, jabs can still be very opressive and be a bane for stamblades.

Still hoping for backlash rework so it better synergises with templar passives.
I dont neceserraly want it to be stronger than now, i just want more options on its scaling.

@Dunning_Kruger my current magplar build also runs 0 protective, but with pirate skelly and brp resto backbar i can take a stupid amount of punishment.
Also magplar is prob my favourite 2vx class.

Empowering sweep: i get the reason behind its change, but the ulti isnt enough to pull stamplar out of the bottom tier of pve dps pit its currently in.
Backlash rework to allow crit and wpd scaling without massively buffing its damage would be where id start.

For pvp both templar specs feel good this patch, for pve magplar is still amazing.

Maybe somewhere down the line we could see some changes to help pve templar tanks have a better identity and be more effective, perhaps better scaling for sun shield and/or healing ritual rework to an hp scaled hot, probably in conjuction with rushed ceremony nerf for pvps sake.

Joy_Division

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

All I said was the class was borderline overpowered. If it gets buffed and the fix the channel timing bug it will be overpowered. Cleanse in a dot heavy meta is insanely strong and your spammable procs burning light.
I’m not sure what you guys want; the class buff that lets you fight good players while outnumbered? If you can’t win 1v1 on magplar then slot shadowrend necropotence and use a Cc. The class isn’t in a bad spot is all I’m saying. If you take stamplar that is significantly better than myself like jack215 on Eu you would see how strong it is. And if you make it any stronger there is gonna be a serious templar problem in cyro.

What we want are skills whose animations correctly match the cast times and for people to stop equating "tankiness" with being OP.

We're going on 5 years and people like you are still going on about how strong a templar can be standing in their rune and cleansing. I don't think any honest templar has ever said that was a class weakness or it wasnit good at doing that. Indeed, the fact that it's kind of easy to do that is why so many no damage "healbots" are out there making Cyrodiil more unpleasant to play than it should be.

Every class can be tanky now. It's stupid easy, particularly because many of ZOS's gear sets and mechanics automatically grant strong defensive bonuses without really doing anything. Even the supposedly "squishy" NB can now be a straight out brawler. And lets not even get into "glass cannon" pet sorcs. Mag Wardens and mag Necros are stupid tanky, yet both classes are throw your computer out the window frustrating to play because they are so inept offensively.

There are three traditional characteristics used in military field to measure effectiveness: Armor, Mobility, Firepower. Templars get an A for Armor, S*** for mobility, and a C+ for Firepower. That's not OP. Especially because they have a hard time combining all those characteristics when they need to (the ever wonderful offensive-defensive phases). That's quite frankly what a class probably should be, providing their skills actually functioned correctly.

Have you got on your mag sorc, mag DK, or put heavy armor on your Stam NB this patch? All three have more impressive grade distributions than a templar and all three have an easier time synergizing those three characteristics at the same time. Tell us again how tempalrs are borderline OP? Compared to what? Zerglings, magicka NBs, and inexperienced players?

technohic

OK. I have been running magplar recently and have ran stamplar quite a bit as well as every other class including necro and will do my to the letter 2 pain points for templar.

As a backdrop for my perspective as I mostly just PvP. Overall; I think templar is in a decent spot from a PvP perspective with stamina kind of lagging behind. My stamplar hits pretty hard when I run it and extended ritual is the only difference maker here compared to other classes. My magplar has considerably lower damage and burst values but is predicated on having some PBAOEs and DOTs going at the same time as sweeps so its not about hitting hard, but having a lot of things hitting. With that said; here is where I feel the shortfalls are.

1. For both stam and magicka; we lack any practical major debuffss that synergize with the class. Sweeps and Jabs seem to be our spammable and are a conal AOE but the couple we get, minor fracture on POTL is single target, off balance on charge is single target, major defile on dark flare (not worthwhile to use now) is AOE but on a single target attack? Perhaps I am mistaken and we should go more single target, but the core of both templars damage is getting reduced by evasion.

2. For both mag and stam; lack of decent proactive defense. My necro has a spirit mener that absorbs 10%. Warden has shields that absorb ranged and give ultimate. DKs have wings wether they like it or not 50% ranged damage reduction is strong (the buff is too short and too potent IMO) NBs now have relentless focus stacks. Sorcs have a class shield and ability to still stack shields. All of theirs work on offensive builds. Templars have radiant ward which is crap for defense and mediocre at offense, or the other morph blazing shield which is pretty much just crap unless you stack health to the high heavens, then its just a turd rather than a full blown crap. Neither really do anything for stamplar.

Think that would be my top 2 at the moment.

Cinbri

I forgot to mention that because of new Immobilization rules our Cleansing Ritual is bit worse as it working against this new rule. For example you will fight charged ice staff - you can wait till root expire and then no root so you wont be permarooted; but if you dare to use class cleanse that supposed to help against roots - and if it will cleanse root effect - immunity duration wont apply and perma-Chilled status will apply root again, making Cleansing Ritual uncapable to deal with permaroots; same goes for other roots spams.

I saw people asking about changing Honor the Dead into grant HoT instead of mana restore - it should be done for Breath of Life, not Honor. It took nearly 3 years of convincing zos to make Honor as perfect skill as it is today, at same time they were continuously nerfing BoL, making even Matriarch heal for more, and trying to remove BoL original benefits without rebalancing heal itself. It so bad that last time of doing Blackrose run I didnt even noticed that forgot respec to BoL, because its tiny heal nowdays can be easily compensated.
And in this game HoT >> burst heal. Thus templar healing power for defense is not most optimal from all classes.
So change BoL into granting HoT for caster to make it comparable to Honor but instead of sustain it would be heal output morph, so while caster under HoT effect it will increase chance that ally will get main heal coz caster will be protected. Smth like Honor = Harness Magicka; BoL = Dampen Magicka.

Neoauspex wrote: »

Even though Eclipse was nerfed it got a stealth buff in that it procs Mechanical Acuity now, as does the initial hit of Purifying Light. I don't currently run Acuity but I bet you could get fairly reliable procs since Eclipse is the only skill I can think of that can trigger it passively for 6 seconds on multiple targets.

It not stealth buff, it just fix that should be done 2 years ago, as after they revamped Eclipse and Backlash they didn't update it as direct damage abilities, and still it didn't received full fix because it still not proc with a number direct damage proc sets, that is sad.

Animations:
As @Minno linked in Reddit QnA: "Performance is generally what holds that back. (loads of new animations, which increases memory..etc)"
So here is again some suggestions to optimize templar animations that should help with perfomance:
1. Remove Jabs glowing animation multiplying based on amount of hitted targets. This animation is pretty useless, if you hit target you can see spark of it on target that symbolize successful hit. So what the point of drain performance on producing 6x+ visual effect when there is already other effects that represent its function. It might only look cool that jab deal lot of aoe damage and glow like if god-like aoe damage skill but skill is bad as aoe spammable outside of grinding.
2. Remove Solar Barrage holy fire ring effect procs. it relic of old mechanic yet drain perfomance by loading this animation, which nowdays not actually represent skill mechanic. This effect just recolored Impulse effect that was represented direct damage aoe attack same as Impulse but now it DoT attack, and thus feel weird that dot aura looks like direct attack wave. Like jabs it has visual effect of holy fire flash on target that shows successfull hit.

Also to represent new prolonged duration this skill received new visual effect of glowing essence aura flowing around caster, that shows for enemy too to represent active time and radius of skill. So skill is overloaded with animations.
Removing those ring procs will make it more inline of skill mechanic and to look more like comparable skills, for example sorcs Hurricane - like aura that shows radius of damage skill that deal damage inside of it and proc some effect symbolizing hit.
Will look like this:
when you cast it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXi_w7k3yoU

and when it hit enemies inside:



3. Animations bugs:
A: Cleansing Ritual - comparable bug of Soul Assault ult was fixed last update but templar bug that HoT animation multiply remained. As result in large fights every CR loading ~30 unnecessary animations every 2sec - perfect example of performance drainer.
B: Backlash - in prehistoric times skill was casttime ability but after 1.6.5 overhaul it turned into instant cast ability yet its animation still inherit bug of being stucked in casting like it still casttime ability, that happen during lag. Same bug that happened with sorcs Conjured Ward and Annulment after it was made casttime and then back to instant but remained its casttime animation just cutted. Yet after reports it was fixed in following update 4.3.3 "Fixed an issue with Annulment and its morphs, and Conjured Ward and its morphs, where you could occasionally get stuck in the casting animations when using the abilities in quick succession with other abilities such as Block."
Meanwhile templar bugged Backlash animation is here for 4 years, since overhaul in 1.6.5...