[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Vajrak

Cinbri wrote: »

Regarding passives, since it should get audit next update: Lets hope that passive will be update by buffs, and not just by nerfing all passives to usefulness of most useless passives...

1. Restoring Spirit - as I was suggesting - to make it 4% of reducing all costs.
Take into consideration that zos equalize stuff with sets bonuses - so taking as base value stats of last released class - necro: Undead Confederate with 200 regen of mana/stam with limitation on paper, which is being 80% strength of Amber Plasm set bonus. There is no set that grant only reduction of mana/stamina/ult so taking into account Alteration set: 80% of 6% is 4.8%. So, almost same % as now that will be lower coz diminishings anyway.
Thus to equalize strength of resource passive it's low % of reduction should reduce all costs(like was done with Imperials).


2. Spear Wall - in comparison with Sacred Ground passive(both provide minor buff) it is lucklaster. And taking zos logic regarding SG passive - from 3.0.5: "Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we'd like" Its major buff was changed to minor coz possibility to have near 100% uptime; so taking this logic minor buffs should have smth like closer to 100% uptime. (spamming jabs that is only spammable skill that can be used in rapid succession is not validate low duration of protection because it not passive mechanic like SG)
So, despite both passives in same hierarchy -14/27 lvl in skill tree, it has difference in effectiveness:
A. while minor mending of SG passive last 4sec after leaving area, yet minor protection from SW passive lasts only 3sec.
B. While SG passive can prolong its duration passively by standing inside huge radius of Cleansing Ritual, yet SW passive had to be activated every 3sec.
C. While SG grant also huge aoe passive snare as magicka-like version of Caltrops, yet SW passive don't have any bonus.
So, to make it consistent at least inside 1 class, ther should be some treatment:
1. Increase duration of SW passive from 1.5(<-- not whole number btw)/3 to higher numbers than 4sec(4/8 for example to account the duration of Spear Shards) given that this bonus can't be achieved passively for 20+sec after casting 1skill like minor mending. In addition passive don't have additional effect like snare of SG.
2. Add reversed effect of 30% snare of SC - major speed buff for 1/2sec upon casting Aedric skill, increase duration of minor protection to 2/4sec. So this passive will be fully equal to its defensive passive from restoring light tree.
3. Change 1.5/3 minor protection into 1/2 major protection. So, it will have even less uptime but it will be strong buff that realistically will have more than 10% uptime only on build that utilize aedric spear spammable - jabs, which is channel and thus it will be nearly comparable to Deliberation passive. (sounds bit OP for spamming jabs but who knows what way zos taking)
In 2 and 3 passive will focus on benefit class spammable - Jabs, same like Sacred Ground focus on benefit its area of protection skills.


3. Light Weaver - passive that need complete overhaul because too conditional bonuses.
Its first bonus of increase Radiant Aura time is not needed as base skill got duration update last chapter making it without passive averagely same time as it was before with passive; and in addition it cost zero mana so duration wont affect sustain as you can spam it as much as you want without hurting sustain.
It 2nd bonus of granting 2 ult upon use Healing Ritual has to wide effectiveness - zero effect for anyone who is not using this particular skill, low effectiveness coz hp threshold of proc and too big effectiveness in hard fight when caster can generate like 14 ult per cast.
3rd bonus is too conditional too - you gain zero benefit if you don't use this tree ultimate, and proc attached to channel nature of ult that by itself sould be overhauled.
Overall passive attached to the most situative skills and in majority of builds this passive simply won't be active.

and Master Ritualist - another passive should get full rebalance as this is passive that unlike every other class passive ingame don't have serious benefit for class in combat nor outside of combat, no matter if you do pve/pvp/rp. If count its effectiveness by "uptime", i.e. duration of resurrecting beam - it will be like 0.X% uptime.

So, here is couple ideas:
1. Change one of the passives, for example Master Ritualist, to be templar version of Icy Aura - reduce effectiveness of defile effects on you for X%. Since getting overhaul to make 2 usefull defensive passives might boost healing role too much in pve, there could be done same what was implemented for wardens and later used for redguards to grant them smth good but not overbuff them - one of the overhauled passives could be very conditional and work only in pvp aspect of game. Defile reduction will be useless mostly in pve and in pvp it will take into account that entire templar defense is healing that can be negated just by 1 debuff. Such effect wont be active by itself but as soon as meet defile it will work as additional healing modifier under this debuff.
2. Another passive - Light Weaver, should stop being that skill-conditional. It can loose all its conditional bonuses but take one of it and turn it into full reliable bonus. Since duration of Radiant Aura is pointless effect - it can be taken ult gain or ult proc effects:
A: change it 2ult by using Healing Ritual under 60%hp into grant 2 ult to caster when healed by any Restoring Tree direct heal/hot while under 75%hp, with 1sec cooldown, i.e. smth like effect similar to warden Nature's Gift.
B: or take other effect and change granting Armor when channel Rite of Passage into granting same amount of 16500 Armor/major buff for Xsec after activating any ultimate skill. So it will be more inline with how dk Battle Roar performs.
3. Or just change one of the passives to be defensive versions of its offensive counterparts like Piercing Spear - since we lost boost to critical healing by this passive it should be regain as passive bonus for one of the restoring tree passives. And since PS passive double but one of the effects is affect pvp only - maybe combine 10% crit healing boost with other pvp-only effect, maybe even reduction of defile effect from above or "increase your healing for 10% when you under defile debuff".


Aedric Spear skill line:
It has potential to be one of the most unique classes skill tree because this skill tree is smth like "holy" imitation on spears weapon line when majority of skills is creating glowing spear in our hands; and skills like Piercing Javelin being direct copy as ordinary spear abilities of npcs. It understandable that this skillline is offensive tanking line but why not mix it with this feeling of having unique weapon line incorporated into class line that will make it automatically one of the most unique lines?
Could be done by swapping one of the passives - Burning Light or Balanced Warrior into smth like - allow all Aedric Spear skills to proc weapon enchants and granting 20% of proc poisons and increase effectiveness of weapon enchant/poison by X%. Smth like Torug set bonus


Jabs:
Its 6 width area that means 3m left and right from cross is not enough in strafe because of how many calculations per 1second this skill takes. And this even outside of lags it land terribly and with lags its pretty large area is de facto much lower coz game unable to calculate properly area of landing jabs nor with width nor length. Causing stuff like this to be common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-LMQWXLhs
However not sure that increasing width area would be right approach, is it only transform spammable into huge aoe.

Another annoying thing is heal of Puncturing Sweep - it doesn't have big heal but also don't have cap that turn skill into 1 button spam in pve coz when you face horde of npcs - hitting them with just this 1 skill literally grant you god mode. And unlike Inhale it not follow rule that aoe deal 100%damage of standard aoe and 50%vampire heal from it or 50%damage of standard aoe with 100%vampire heal. However downside of this is making heal terribly in any scenario where you don't grind uncapped amount of low-armored trash npc.
Maybe treat this morph clother to other comparable skill of tanking skill line - necro Hungry Scythe? Maybe if not swap heal based on damage done for moderate heal(however for Scythe and Devouring Swarm moderate heal works great) but at least increase % of heal with capping heal on 6 total targets like Scythe does? Those 2 skill already have common things in heal conditions - scythe heal more for first enemy hit while not having damage increase for closest target, while jabs have closest-target increase and since heal scale of damage - first enemy hitted heal more too.
Just to lower total ceiling of heal while increase average floor of heal, or whatever zos called their goals. To make Puncturing Seep less brainless spam button for grinding and more effective skill in trials or pvp content.

Radial Sweep - we know that faster dots means more server calculations and lags and bla-bla and thus their frequency was lowered from 1sec to 2sec, but this should be applied to skills only that can be spammed and not to ultimate abilities that have pretty solid time limits, with their role to be strong burst or bursty-DoT abilities. And thus Radial Sweep DoT(even tho it direct damage attack) should tick every 1second instead of every 2second, making total dot duration to 3sec not 6. It will place it in line with other ultimate abilities that has DoT ticking with 1sec frequency not 2. It will make it better fill role of ultimate ability to be bursty. On side it will make Empower for Empowering Sweep twice shorter but this effect attached to ult is bad by itself while high frequency will make ult more bursty too (from 18sec to 9).
P.S.: it entire situation is wrong with granting Empowering Sweep such bonuses. Since it seems zos will never do at least 1 morpg of Nova to be proper pvp ult for everyone who is not ball-groups, they could make at least Radial Sweep to be our high-offensive ult: for example take it scaling from Incap and add dot scaling from Empowering Sweep, and as result we would have cheap ult but when you use it from 120+ult points it gain ability to scale its DoT/CC, making it at the same time expensive ult but that can deal high damage against large amount of enemies, like Leap or DB or Soul Siphon or Perma and being viable not for zergs only like current Nova.
P.S.S.: its bug of missing enemies inside aoe is still here so now it can miss inside 8meters instead of 6

P.S.: even adds have portable healing aura like this:

Why not transform Cleansing Ritual or Healing Ritual or Rite of Passage into same portable AoE HoT.
Btw for Xivkyns Lacerators this mobile HoT skill counts same as their other skill - npc version of old Remembrance that they channel and grant mitigation to all npcs in radius - as npc ultimate ability. So, this is literally improved Rite of Passage incorporated for npc

Restoring Spirit already is 4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reductions.

For the Spear Wall passive, and considerations (the minor protection really is underwhelming) and combining some of your later stated idea --- change Spear Wall to Focused Spear: 10/20% chance for Aedric Spear skills to proc enchants/poisons.

Light Weaver --- the Radiant Aura bonus does need to be looked at again, have it give a PBAoE for 5/10% of caster max hp while Radiant Aura is active, 5m range.

The Healing Ritual bonus at 75% hp to grant 2 ultimate makes sense, but Healing Ritual still needs a cost reduction or it's channel back. I'd even accept cutting the cost by 1/2 or 3/4 but cut the heal value it grants by the same amount. Make it into a damn spam heal again.

Master Ritualist should add a PBAoE healing Aura, centered on and tied to the caster, for using Healing Ritual OR Cleansing Ritual, while maintaining the Ressurection bonuses, value of the HoT at perhaps 1/2 of what cleansing ritual does, duration 3/6s, 10m range.

Burning Light I love and wouldn't want a change on personally, but Balanced Warrior does need a change, and I keep saying have it altered to give either less resistances, or apply equally across, thus my suggestion of 3% damage done/3% damage taken reduction (or if whole numbers, 2/4% damage done, 1/2% damage taken reduction, which I honestly prefer).

Jabs just needs its hit-box re-evaluated or turn radius to revert. It used to hit reliably even in cyrolag if you just moved and turned camera around it, not it moves with you and it becomes easy to miss. I would say if it had any change to it, make the morphs fit: Puncturing Sweeps reduce the heal value by 10% and give it a flat penetration bonus, while Biting Jabs procs a 4s duration 0.5s proc DoT --- but a very low value DoT, as it's purpose isn't the damage it gives, but Burning Light procs, filling a gap in Stamplar kit of a reliable way to proc Burning Light when losing the Spear Shards skill.

Radial Sweep itself could use a damage increase (around 12%), as for the morphs...
Crescent as a Magicka Morph seems to be working mostly fine, it could perhaps use a little more value on the bonus damage to targets in front of you.

Empowering Sweep can be changed to Empowered Sweep, and utilize the idea you are saying: at 100/200/300/400/500 ult it gains 5% more damage to (capped at a 25% increase), but loses the DoT aspect for gaining that much extra burst.

Neoauspex

Only spent a couple hours in Cyro so far since console patch, but honestly I'm pretty happy with the Templar changes (from a Magplar perspective). Toppling Charge is great; the off balance adds a noticeable damage boost. Even though Eclipse was nerfed it got a stealth buff in that it procs Mechanical Acuity now, as does the initial hit of Purifying Light. I don't currently run Acuity but I bet you could get fairly reliable procs since Eclipse is the only skill I can think of that can trigger it passively for 6 seconds on multiple targets.

Definitely felt improved overall, although I still agree our passives and some worthless skills need revamping. My stamsorc can self heal as much as my Templar from crit surge/briarthorn/7th while being on the offensive, and literally everything is in the kit... Mobility, defense, offense. Every skill you slot as a sorc buffs you passively. Feel good as a Magplar but not halfway-sorc good. Haven't been hit with the Necro bash yet though. Stamplars, well... Much love good luck out there.

danno8

Joy_Division wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

@danno8

Yes, there is a trick to it. The interaction with channeled cast times and global cooldowns and light attack weaving works differently than traditional skills. With every normal ability in the game, you can do exactly as ZOS's loading screen says and press a light attack in-between abilities, and you'll get perfect weaving with abilities firing every second.

With Channels, it seems that if you do not weave an ability between 0.5 and 0.9 seconds after casting it, you get a longer-slower animation of about 1.5 seconds (even though the ability only takes 1 second) and I think the "post 200 ms cooldown" ZOS claimed to remove is added on (I'm not sure if it's this particular cooldown, but there is definitely a delay of some sort that is incurred if you miss that 0.5-0.9 second window).

Basically, you must be much more focused and meticulousness to get the proper cast-time and cooldown with templar channels than you do with the other classes. You aren't rewarded for executing this skillfully, rather you must be skillful in order to get the skills to function according to their tooltip. So if you're not used to playing a templar (such as it being an "alt"), the transition to playing one is more difficult than the other classes because it requires a different approach to timing and combat.

What it amounts to is that if your idea of "playing" ESO is to sit in front of a target dummy and enjoy an instance with near perfect latency, you might be able to usually get the skill to act correctly. If you don't have good latency (such as playing from Australia, PvPing, or your machine has trouble handing Trials that have a lot going on), the timing is too precise and you're pretty much screwed. Also, if you play content where human opponents or PvE mechanics are disruptive to DPS parse rotations, you're also then not going to be able to get the proper 1 second cast down at any rate of consistency.

I'm making a video of this that will elaborate.

Yah the timing of it is completely non-intuitive, unlike standard instant cast abilities. After fiddling with the timing I was able to get 2-3 more PS per minute than usual, up to around 170 hits from the 160 I was getting with my natural LA weaving that I use with everything else.

To me it seems that if you weave it perfectly, as you described just at the right moment, the "wind-up" portion of the animation (where you appear to pull back the spear for a moment) will not animate and you instead proceed directly to the stabby motion. Similar to what you see if you just spam the skill with no LA weaving at all.

Minno

Vajrak wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Regarding passives, since it should get audit next update: Lets hope that passive will be update by buffs, and not just by nerfing all passives to usefulness of most useless passives...

1. Restoring Spirit - as I was suggesting - to make it 4% of reducing all costs.
Take into consideration that zos equalize stuff with sets bonuses - so taking as base value stats of last released class - necro: Undead Confederate with 200 regen of mana/stam with limitation on paper, which is being 80% strength of Amber Plasm set bonus. There is no set that grant only reduction of mana/stamina/ult so taking into account Alteration set: 80% of 6% is 4.8%. So, almost same % as now that will be lower coz diminishings anyway.
Thus to equalize strength of resource passive it's low % of reduction should reduce all costs(like was done with Imperials).


2. Spear Wall - in comparison with Sacred Ground passive(both provide minor buff) it is lucklaster. And taking zos logic regarding SG passive - from 3.0.5: "Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we'd like" Its major buff was changed to minor coz possibility to have near 100% uptime; so taking this logic minor buffs should have smth like closer to 100% uptime. (spamming jabs that is only spammable skill that can be used in rapid succession is not validate low duration of protection because it not passive mechanic like SG)
So, despite both passives in same hierarchy -14/27 lvl in skill tree, it has difference in effectiveness:
A. while minor mending of SG passive last 4sec after leaving area, yet minor protection from SW passive lasts only 3sec.
B. While SG passive can prolong its duration passively by standing inside huge radius of Cleansing Ritual, yet SW passive had to be activated every 3sec.
C. While SG grant also huge aoe passive snare as magicka-like version of Caltrops, yet SW passive don't have any bonus.
So, to make it consistent at least inside 1 class, ther should be some treatment:
1. Increase duration of SW passive from 1.5(<-- not whole number btw)/3 to higher numbers than 4sec(4/8 for example to account the duration of Spear Shards) given that this bonus can't be achieved passively for 20+sec after casting 1skill like minor mending. In addition passive don't have additional effect like snare of SG.
2. Add reversed effect of 30% snare of SC - major speed buff for 1/2sec upon casting Aedric skill, increase duration of minor protection to 2/4sec. So this passive will be fully equal to its defensive passive from restoring light tree.
3. Change 1.5/3 minor protection into 1/2 major protection. So, it will have even less uptime but it will be strong buff that realistically will have more than 10% uptime only on build that utilize aedric spear spammable - jabs, which is channel and thus it will be nearly comparable to Deliberation passive. (sounds bit OP for spamming jabs but who knows what way zos taking)
In 2 and 3 passive will focus on benefit class spammable - Jabs, same like Sacred Ground focus on benefit its area of protection skills.


3. Light Weaver - passive that need complete overhaul because too conditional bonuses.
Its first bonus of increase Radiant Aura time is not needed as base skill got duration update last chapter making it without passive averagely same time as it was before with passive; and in addition it cost zero mana so duration wont affect sustain as you can spam it as much as you want without hurting sustain.
It 2nd bonus of granting 2 ult upon use Healing Ritual has to wide effectiveness - zero effect for anyone who is not using this particular skill, low effectiveness coz hp threshold of proc and too big effectiveness in hard fight when caster can generate like 14 ult per cast.
3rd bonus is too conditional too - you gain zero benefit if you don't use this tree ultimate, and proc attached to channel nature of ult that by itself sould be overhauled.
Overall passive attached to the most situative skills and in majority of builds this passive simply won't be active.

and Master Ritualist - another passive should get full rebalance as this is passive that unlike every other class passive ingame don't have serious benefit for class in combat nor outside of combat, no matter if you do pve/pvp/rp. If count its effectiveness by "uptime", i.e. duration of resurrecting beam - it will be like 0.X% uptime.

So, here is couple ideas:
1. Change one of the passives, for example Master Ritualist, to be templar version of Icy Aura - reduce effectiveness of defile effects on you for X%. Since getting overhaul to make 2 usefull defensive passives might boost healing role too much in pve, there could be done same what was implemented for wardens and later used for redguards to grant them smth good but not overbuff them - one of the overhauled passives could be very conditional and work only in pvp aspect of game. Defile reduction will be useless mostly in pve and in pvp it will take into account that entire templar defense is healing that can be negated just by 1 debuff. Such effect wont be active by itself but as soon as meet defile it will work as additional healing modifier under this debuff.
2. Another passive - Light Weaver, should stop being that skill-conditional. It can loose all its conditional bonuses but take one of it and turn it into full reliable bonus. Since duration of Radiant Aura is pointless effect - it can be taken ult gain or ult proc effects:
A: change it 2ult by using Healing Ritual under 60%hp into grant 2 ult to caster when healed by any Restoring Tree direct heal/hot while under 75%hp, with 1sec cooldown, i.e. smth like effect similar to warden Nature's Gift.
B: or take other effect and change granting Armor when channel Rite of Passage into granting same amount of 16500 Armor/major buff for Xsec after activating any ultimate skill. So it will be more inline with how dk Battle Roar performs.
3. Or just change one of the passives to be defensive versions of its offensive counterparts like Piercing Spear - since we lost boost to critical healing by this passive it should be regain as passive bonus for one of the restoring tree passives. And since PS passive double but one of the effects is affect pvp only - maybe combine 10% crit healing boost with other pvp-only effect, maybe even reduction of defile effect from above or "increase your healing for 10% when you under defile debuff".


Aedric Spear skill line:
It has potential to be one of the most unique classes skill tree because this skill tree is smth like "holy" imitation on spears weapon line when majority of skills is creating glowing spear in our hands; and skills like Piercing Javelin being direct copy as ordinary spear abilities of npcs. It understandable that this skillline is offensive tanking line but why not mix it with this feeling of having unique weapon line incorporated into class line that will make it automatically one of the most unique lines?
Could be done by swapping one of the passives - Burning Light or Balanced Warrior into smth like - allow all Aedric Spear skills to proc weapon enchants and granting 20% of proc poisons and increase effectiveness of weapon enchant/poison by X%. Smth like Torug set bonus


Jabs:
Its 6 width area that means 3m left and right from cross is not enough in strafe because of how many calculations per 1second this skill takes. And this even outside of lags it land terribly and with lags its pretty large area is de facto much lower coz game unable to calculate properly area of landing jabs nor with width nor length. Causing stuff like this to be common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-LMQWXLhs
However not sure that increasing width area would be right approach, is it only transform spammable into huge aoe.

Another annoying thing is heal of Puncturing Sweep - it doesn't have big heal but also don't have cap that turn skill into 1 button spam in pve coz when you face horde of npcs - hitting them with just this 1 skill literally grant you god mode. And unlike Inhale it not follow rule that aoe deal 100%damage of standard aoe and 50%vampire heal from it or 50%damage of standard aoe with 100%vampire heal. However downside of this is making heal terribly in any scenario where you don't grind uncapped amount of low-armored trash npc.
Maybe treat this morph clother to other comparable skill of tanking skill line - necro Hungry Scythe? Maybe if not swap heal based on damage done for moderate heal(however for Scythe and Devouring Swarm moderate heal works great) but at least increase % of heal with capping heal on 6 total targets like Scythe does? Those 2 skill already have common things in heal conditions - scythe heal more for first enemy hit while not having damage increase for closest target, while jabs have closest-target increase and since heal scale of damage - first enemy hitted heal more too.
Just to lower total ceiling of heal while increase average floor of heal, or whatever zos called their goals. To make Puncturing Seep less brainless spam button for grinding and more effective skill in trials or pvp content.

Radial Sweep - we know that faster dots means more server calculations and lags and bla-bla and thus their frequency was lowered from 1sec to 2sec, but this should be applied to skills only that can be spammed and not to ultimate abilities that have pretty solid time limits, with their role to be strong burst or bursty-DoT abilities. And thus Radial Sweep DoT(even tho it direct damage attack) should tick every 1second instead of every 2second, making total dot duration to 3sec not 6. It will place it in line with other ultimate abilities that has DoT ticking with 1sec frequency not 2. It will make it better fill role of ultimate ability to be bursty. On side it will make Empower for Empowering Sweep twice shorter but this effect attached to ult is bad by itself while high frequency will make ult more bursty too (from 18sec to 9).
P.S.: it entire situation is wrong with granting Empowering Sweep such bonuses. Since it seems zos will never do at least 1 morpg of Nova to be proper pvp ult for everyone who is not ball-groups, they could make at least Radial Sweep to be our high-offensive ult: for example take it scaling from Incap and add dot scaling from Empowering Sweep, and as result we would have cheap ult but when you use it from 120+ult points it gain ability to scale its DoT/CC, making it at the same time expensive ult but that can deal high damage against large amount of enemies, like Leap or DB or Soul Siphon or Perma and being viable not for zergs only like current Nova.
P.S.S.: its bug of missing enemies inside aoe is still here so now it can miss inside 8meters instead of 6

P.S.: even adds have portable healing aura like this:

Why not transform Cleansing Ritual or Healing Ritual or Rite of Passage into same portable AoE HoT.
Btw for Xivkyns Lacerators this mobile HoT skill counts same as their other skill - npc version of old Remembrance that they channel and grant mitigation to all npcs in radius - as npc ultimate ability. So, this is literally improved Rite of Passage incorporated for npc

Restoring Spirit already is 4% Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate cost reductions.

For the Spear Wall passive, and considerations (the minor protection really is underwhelming) and combining some of your later stated idea --- change Spear Wall to Focused Spear: 10/20% chance for Aedric Spear skills to proc enchants/poisons.

Light Weaver --- the Radiant Aura bonus does need to be looked at again, have it give a PBAoE for 5/10% of caster max hp while Radiant Aura is active, 5m range.

The Healing Ritual bonus at 75% hp to grant 2 ultimate makes sense, but Healing Ritual still needs a cost reduction or it's channel back. I'd even accept cutting the cost by 1/2 or 3/4 but cut the heal value it grants by the same amount. Make it into a damn spam heal again.

Master Ritualist should add a PBAoE healing Aura, centered on and tied to the caster, for using Healing Ritual OR Cleansing Ritual, while maintaining the Ressurection bonuses, value of the HoT at perhaps 1/2 of what cleansing ritual does, duration 3/6s, 10m range.

Burning Light I love and wouldn't want a change on personally, but Balanced Warrior does need a change, and I keep saying have it altered to give either less resistances, or apply equally across, thus my suggestion of 3% damage done/3% damage taken reduction (or if whole numbers, 2/4% damage done, 1/2% damage taken reduction, which I honestly prefer).

Jabs just needs its hit-box re-evaluated or turn radius to revert. It used to hit reliably even in cyrolag if you just moved and turned camera around it, not it moves with you and it becomes easy to miss. I would say if it had any change to it, make the morphs fit: Puncturing Sweeps reduce the heal value by 10% and give it a flat penetration bonus, while Biting Jabs procs a 4s duration 0.5s proc DoT --- but a very low value DoT, as it's purpose isn't the damage it gives, but Burning Light procs, filling a gap in Stamplar kit of a reliable way to proc Burning Light when losing the Spear Shards skill.

Radial Sweep itself could use a damage increase (around 12%), as for the morphs...
Crescent as a Magicka Morph seems to be working mostly fine, it could perhaps use a little more value on the bonus damage to targets in front of you.

Empowering Sweep can be changed to Empowered Sweep, and utilize the idea you are saying: at 100/200/300/400/500 ult it gains 5% more damage to (capped at a 25% increase), but loses the DoT aspect for gaining that much extra burst.

Cinbri is comparing the templar passive to imperial red diamond. Red diamond includes things like block/dodge/break free in addition to the mag/ult/stam costs, templar restoring spirit only impacts ult/stam/mag costs.

Solariken

Honestly I'll take any bone they want to throw. If that means only revamping Light Weaver and Master Ritualist then so be it.

Cinbri had cool ideas for these. Other interesting ideas:

Light Weaver:
When you cast a RL ability, gain 1320 physical & spell resist and heal for X over 4 seconds.

Master Ritualist:
With a RL ability slotted, reduce all cast/channel times by 12% (includes heavy attacks) and
increases damage done while casting/channeling by X%.

Also expanding Restoring Spirit's 4% to all costs would be a YUGE quality of life boost. Yes please.

Also I fully support changing Balanced Warrior to +2% damage done and -1% damage taken. Several classes need more universal synergy and this is a great way to do it.

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

Honestly I'll take any bone they want to throw. If that means only revamping Light Weaver and Master Ritualist then so be it.

Cinbri had cool ideas for these. Other interesting ideas:

Light Weaver:
When you cast a RL ability, gain 1320 physical & spell resist and heal for X over 4 seconds.

Master Ritualist:
With a RL ability slotted, reduce all cast/channel times by 12% (includes heavy attacks) and
increases damage done while casting/channeling by X%.

Also expanding Restoring Spirit's 4% to all costs would be a YUGE quality of life boost. Yes please.

Also I fully support changing Balanced Warrior to +2% damage done and -1% damage taken. Several classes need more universal synergy and this is a great way to do it.

agreed. those mitigation passives, would help add to the loss of miss chance, though in direct mitigation means.

usmcjdking

I think Mending Passive should work as follows:

"After using an ultimate, gain 1% healing done and 1% damage reduction for each 10 points of ultimate spent for 10 seconds". Works ala Balorgh. That would kill a lot of birds with a single stone. Incredible buff for stamplar whilst only being a modest rework for Magplar.

Checkmath

usmcjdking wrote: »

I think Mending Passive should work as follows:

"After using an ultimate, gain 1% healing done and 1% damage reduction for each 10 points of ultimate spent for 10 seconds". Works ala Balorgh. That would kill a lot of birds with a single stone. Incredible buff for stamplar whilst only being a modest rework for Magplar.

MOdest rework for magplar? Lets use batswarm even more to get more healing from it

Firstmep

Checkmath wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I think Mending Passive should work as follows:

"After using an ultimate, gain 1% healing done and 1% damage reduction for each 10 points of ultimate spent for 10 seconds". Works ala Balorgh. That would kill a lot of birds with a single stone. Incredible buff for stamplar whilst only being a modest rework for Magplar.

MOdest rework for magplar? Lets use batswarm even more to get more healing from it

That suggestion would be a slight bit op, but then again , why not.

Delparis

Dev should also rework the concept of "build your house and stay in"

cause that house dont have doors or windows to stop trespasser

Checkmath

Delparis wrote: »

Dev should also rework the concept of "build your house and stay in"

cause that house dont have doors or windows to stop trespasser

What house?

Sheuib

My Magicka Templar melee build, yes that is a thing, is in a very good spot right now. The only issue I have is the spear ultimate seems to miss a lot. I use to think it was the range but even with the increased range it still seems to be missing. Most of the time when I see it miss is after a toppling charge and the opponent is on the ground or a slight difference in elevation. It has irritated me enough that I’m dropping my staff on my front bar for a 2h sword just so I can use that ultimate. And, yes I’m still a magicka build.

Vajrak

Sheuib wrote: »

My Magicka Templar melee build, yes that is a thing, is in a very good spot right now. The only issue I have is the spear ultimate seems to miss a lot. I use to think it was the range but even with the increased range it still seems to be missing. Most of the time when I see it miss is after a toppling charge and the opponent is on the ground or a slight difference in elevation. It has irritated me enough that I’m dropping my staff on my front bar for a 2h sword just so I can use that ultimate. And, yes I’m still a magicka build.

Melee Magicka Templar here also (with dw, until I can get the sword I want for my set to drop) --- and it seems odd, but take a step back from your opponent and then hit ult ---its been hitting consistently for me with that since forever.

And the "Build your house and stay in it" -- No. That is DK's shtick. Templar is "gonna tear up the foundation and lay no ground right HERE!" --- want the simple proof on that: DK kit gives you the tools to bring mobs to you (bring them into your house). Templar kit gives you the tools to keep pressing forward (Charge).

Delparis

Checkmath wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Dev should also rework the concept of "build your house and stay in"

cause that house dont have doors or windows to stop trespasser

What house?

i mean put all the zone buff (rune focus + cleansing ritual) and stay in.

compared to necro "build your house and stay in" (bone totem + boneyard + life amid the death), templar no trespassing zone is a joke.

it's like comparing getting into a mill (templar) and a super high security federal prison (necro)

miteba

Delparis wrote: »

i mean put all the zone buff (rune focus + cleansing ritual) and stay in.

You can aim for that build too with some success with templar.
You have tools for that, thing is it is an defensive approach of combat which you can only stall or delay your fall...

Imo templar DD is a class that needs to be very agressive to have success, which means you need a high emotional control over your playstyle to thrieve against experienced players (against potatoes you just have to spamm sh!ts).
Lets exclude sorcs from that list since a equivalent sorc will always counter you, and you can only stall the fight eventually...
So if you want to be agressive enough you cannot have a defensive set, just a sustain/damage mix or even 2 damage ones and compensante in glyphs/traits

With a templar healer/sustain build you can have much more success *surviving* because you have much more options and it is much easier to defend and maintain your position, even against multiple enemies... Since you can use 2 defensive sets or 2 sustain sets or mixed them

This is based on my experience overall, mostly in open world pvp and solo, EU server...
In groups the word "it depends" is king just because all depends of your group composition and capabilities

StarOfElyon

miteba wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

i mean put all the zone buff (rune focus + cleansing ritual) and stay in.

You can aim for that build too with some success with templar.
You have tools for that, thing is it is an defensive approach of combat which you can only stall or delay your fall...

Imo templar DD is a class that needs to be very agressive to have success, which means you need a high emotional control over your playstyle to thrieve against experienced players (against potatoes you just have to spamm sh!ts).
Lets exclude sorcs from that list since a equivalent sorc will always counter you, and you can only stall the fight eventually...
So if you want to be agressive enough you cannot have a defensive set, just a sustain/damage mix or even 2 damage ones and compensante in glyphs/traits

With a templar healer/sustain build you can have much more success *surviving* because you have much more options and it is much easier to defend and maintain your position, even against multiple enemies... Since you can use 2 defensive sets or 2 sustain sets or mixed them

This is based on my experience overall, mostly in open world pvp and solo, EU server...
In groups the word "it depends" is king just because all depends of your group composition and capabilities

From my experience this is true. To truly do any damage I've had to take my spell damage from the 1700-2200 range to the 2660 - 3160 range, without procs. I dropped Shacklebreaker and went back to Julianos and Innate Axiom. I put ten points into health and stamina each. And I found a good spot. With some tweaks, I thought I could be in a great spot: I want to make sure @Checkmath sees my feedback

StarOfElyon wrote: »

... what I need:

#1. Protection - Extend the spear wall passive to six seconds. That way it can also match the duration of Sun Shield.

#2. Power - Either more upfront damage or faster ticks on the DoT for Radial Sweep.

#3. Debuffs - Dawn's Wrath skills and passives should offer more;

Solar Barrage is meant for melee range play primarily for MagPlars (I've heard) so if it can't offer magic buffs it should debuff the opponents more. How about minor maim to opponents in my AoE? I think this makes more sense than empower for melee ranged Templars.

Purifying Light is good just as a support tool but it doesn't do quite enough for me, the caster. How about giving magplars access to minor breach here? Whenever PL is on people, they're not too concerned about it, I think. But if it could add the debuff of minor breach, the intimidation level would skyrocket.

These three things would help me out a ton in melee range. I think I would actually feel on par with MagSorcs for once.

I was looking forward to this patch. I thought the changes to eclipse and vampire's bane sucked but I liked that Ritual of Retribution could crit now. After two nights of getting smashed, I think I'll have to build like a tank to stay alive but I won't be able to contribute anything offensively. I think the most telling thing is that I was never losing to a Templar or Stamplars 1v1 in BG. I've had some stalemate and some vampires kite away. But it proves to me that I have to fully commit one way or another with Templar builds; offense or defense. I have to be either a glass canon or a tank.

Minno

StarOfElyon wrote: »

miteba wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

i mean put all the zone buff (rune focus + cleansing ritual) and stay in.

You can aim for that build too with some success with templar.
You have tools for that, thing is it is an defensive approach of combat which you can only stall or delay your fall...

Imo templar DD is a class that needs to be very agressive to have success, which means you need a high emotional control over your playstyle to thrieve against experienced players (against potatoes you just have to spamm sh!ts).
Lets exclude sorcs from that list since a equivalent sorc will always counter you, and you can only stall the fight eventually...
So if you want to be agressive enough you cannot have a defensive set, just a sustain/damage mix or even 2 damage ones and compensante in glyphs/traits

With a templar healer/sustain build you can have much more success *surviving* because you have much more options and it is much easier to defend and maintain your position, even against multiple enemies... Since you can use 2 defensive sets or 2 sustain sets or mixed them

This is based on my experience overall, mostly in open world pvp and solo, EU server...
In groups the word "it depends" is king just because all depends of your group composition and capabilities

From my experience this is true. To truly do any damage I've had to take my spell damage from the 1700-2200 range to the 2660 - 3160 range, without procs. I dropped Shacklebreaker and went back to Julianos and Innate Axiom. I put ten points into health and stamina each. And I found a good spot. With some tweaks, I thought I could be in a great spot: I want to make sure @Checkmath sees my feedback

StarOfElyon wrote: »

... what I need:

#1. Protection - Extend the spear wall passive to six seconds. That way it can also match the duration of Sun Shield.

#2. Power - Either more upfront damage or faster ticks on the DoT for Radial Sweep.

#3. Debuffs - Dawn's Wrath skills and passives should offer more;

Solar Barrage is meant for melee range play primarily for MagPlars (I've heard) so if it can't offer magic buffs it should debuff the opponents more. How about minor maim to opponents in my AoE? I think this makes more sense than empower for melee ranged Templars.

Purifying Light is good just as a support tool but it doesn't do quite enough for me, the caster. How about giving magplars access to minor breach here? Whenever PL is on people, they're not too concerned about it, I think. But if it could add the debuff of minor breach, the intimidation level would skyrocket.

These three things would help me out a ton in melee range. I think I would actually feel on par with MagSorcs for once.

I was looking forward to this patch. I thought the changes to eclipse and vampire's bane sucked but I liked that Ritual of Retribution could crit now. After two nights of getting smashed, I think I'll have to build like a tank to stay alive but I won't be able to contribute anything offensively. I think the most telling thing is that I was never losing to a Templar or Stamplars 1v1 in BG. I've had some stalemate and some vampires kite away. But it proves to me that I have to fully commit one way or another with Templar builds; offense or defense. I have to be either a glass canon or a tank.

That should be true for all builds/classes. Problem was ZOS removed the need to make this selection for NB/SORC/DK lol.

miteba

Minno wrote: »

That should be true for all builds/classes. Problem was ZOS removed the need to make this selection for NB/SORC/DK lol.

Yes, theorically, it is a "logical truth" (sorry for the redudancy) for all classes.

But imho, i only really need to apply it in my mag templar (which is my main)

In all my other magicka class characters, i can be much more flexible in my dps choices and i dont really have the same feeling.
Sure, they all have their pros and cons, and they have their natural class counters aswell, but generally i dont need to be so "extreme" chosing one role or another.

Maybe is just in my head or maybe i am biased because i play much more with my magplar...

danno8

Checkmath wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Dev should also rework the concept of "build your house and stay in"

cause that house dont have doors or windows to stop trespasser

What house?

The dev who started the whole "house" thing is gone. Maybe it's time we forget about it?

I mean even the little digs are falling on non-existent ears at this point.

technohic

danno8 wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Dev should also rework the concept of "build your house and stay in"

cause that house dont have doors or windows to stop trespasser

What house?

The dev who started the whole "house" thing is gone. Maybe it's time we forget about it?

I mean even the little digs are falling on non-existent ears at this point.

I agree here. This was said back when we had to actually stand in our focus or return to it to get like 8 seconds of resistance. its actually kind of funny that once we finally got away from that, they kind of slapped it on necro.

Vajrak

Templar is built to be on the offense, constantly, or tactical fallbacks --- USE YOUR CLASS WARD.

I brought my full tankplar into BG's last night, just to mess around -- and was standing up for 20-30s windows vs 8 other players. This is on a non-pvp spec build, just slammed into it for the hell of it.

I do the same with my Magplar DPS, when I want to just goof off a bit, I go into BGs or Cyro or Sweers, and can run around for a bit, and good use of my skills and ward (not even changing my gear let me live for a decent bit while still pumping out damage. Do I win every fight? Of course not, I go to pvp/zones generally to goof off, as I got tired of dedicated pvp a long time ago, but haven't seen a big change in Templar that the way to play it isn't to worry about "Building a house" (that was a stupid statement from go) but to find someones house and slam your spears through the door and into their hearts.

Delparis

Vajrak wrote: »

Templar is built to be on the offense, constantly, or tactical fallbacks --- USE YOUR CLASS WARD.

You mean the radiant ward that gives 3k dmg shield ?

No thanks, I don't want sorc to laugh at me

Minno

Delparis wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

Templar is built to be on the offense, constantly, or tactical fallbacks --- USE YOUR CLASS WARD.

You mean the radiant ward that gives 3k dmg shield ?

No thanks, I don't want sorc to laugh at me

GCD Shield. Because that's what you'll use up casting it all the time lol

Checkmath

@StarOfElyon
Do not worry, I have seen your post.

I agree with you guys, that magplars more than othere classes have to spec for offense to actually be successful in killing stuff. Still a fully offensive build will be most likely also very sqishy if you do not run something like pirate skeleton. As soon as you go a bit more defensively, you will end up in more stalemates than you wanted. Therefore to winning those you need to have solid sustain and more offensive skills, which crowds your bar space.
I personally go for that route and I wish I had more skill slots. My build can dish out enough damage to easely kill potatoes with jabs alone. But facing a decent enemy, I have to use the full damage kit of a dot (vamps bane or solar barrage), jabs as spammable, a damage dealing cc and puryfying light as delayed burst. That is at least 4 skills to kill decent enemies. Then there are the standard skills of rune focus, extended ritual, honor the dead and mistform (any form of moving ability) also taking up 4 slots. leaving me with two additional slots for ele drain and enthropy. 4 of those skills mostly need to be recasted frequently during fights without dealing damage (rune focus, extended ritual, ele drain and enthropy), which makes templars especially vulnerable due to the missing proactive defense while recasting.

This is a big difference to other classes. Stamina toons can use heavy armor sets like seventh legion or fury with bloodspawn to gain innate defense and offense. I agree with many players, that those sets are a bit overtuned, especially for being heavy armor sets, enabling high damage dealing brawler specs. Stamina toons mostly rely on healing over time like vigor and can stay offensive for a prolonged time. Vigor benefits from both high weapon damage and heavy armor a lot. The same is not really possible for magicka toons, since there are no such sets for magicka like seventh legion or fury. Also do most magicka toons get more out of light armor than heavy armor, making them without additional defense quite squishy.

The two magicka classes mostly suffering from this state are IMO magplar and magdk. Both do not synergize as much with the light armor damage shield as classes like sorcs, necroes, wardens and nightblades. The difference is first of the access to the necropotence set (which strenghtens shield size with a high enough health pool) and secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

Many of those problems would be countered by either having a vigor like healing over time to bridge the time to recast buffs and to stay on the offense for a longer time. Also a strong damage shield would alleviate this state (the light armor skill does not provide enough for that purpose tough) and sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

For that reason magplars have to decide, what kind of playstyle they want to:
- sqishy but high damage (which is fine for groupplay and most 1v1 fights)
- with more innate tankyness and sustain, but less damage (which is almost required for solo gameplay in open world)
- healbot/tank (just mentioning here, since its also a "choice")

Delparis

Checkmath wrote: »

secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

this can be solved by changing the Honor the dead morph to give a hot instead of magicka back
honor the dead (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself or a wounded ally in front of you for 1273 Health. Healing anyone who is below 75% gives 60% of the initial heal over 6 seconds.

Also change Breath of Life to be more useful
Breath of Life (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself AND a wounded ally in front of you for 1233 Health.

Checkmath wrote: »

sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

rework Blazing shield so it would give 50% health shield
Blazing shield (New)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 2623 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off 50% your Max Health. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 20% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies

I've run some tests with excel to check if op or not


Also i think Puncturing strikes should remove the snare and swap that with minor berserk to make it worth sloting in pve
Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Gives minor berserk for 3 sec.

@Checkmath

Checkmath

Delparis wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

this can be solved by changing the Honor the dead morph to give a hot instead of magicka back
honor the dead (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself or a wounded ally in front of you for 1273 Health. Healing anyone who is below 75% gives 60% of the initial heal over 6 seconds.

Also change Breath of Life to be more useful
Breath of Life (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself AND a wounded ally in front of you for 1233 Health.

Checkmath wrote: »

sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

rework Blazing shield so it would give 50% health shield
Blazing shield (New)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 2623 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off 50% your Max Health. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 20% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies

I've run some tests with excel to check if op or not


Also i think Puncturing strikes should remove the snare and swap that with minor berserk to make it worth sloting in pve
Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Gives minor berserk for 3 sec.

@Checkmath

You wont get minor berserk on jabs, devs dont want that.

Delparis

Checkmath wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

this can be solved by changing the Honor the dead morph to give a hot instead of magicka back
honor the dead (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself or a wounded ally in front of you for 1273 Health. Healing anyone who is below 75% gives 60% of the initial heal over 6 seconds.

Also change Breath of Life to be more useful
Breath of Life (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself AND a wounded ally in front of you for 1233 Health.

Checkmath wrote: »

sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

rework Blazing shield so it would give 50% health shield
Blazing shield (New)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 2623 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off 50% your Max Health. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 20% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies

I've run some tests with excel to check if op or not


Also i think Puncturing strikes should remove the snare and swap that with minor berserk to make it worth sloting in pve
Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Gives minor berserk for 3 sec.

@Checkmath

You wont get minor berserk on jabs, devs dont want that.

ok maybe increase the dmg in this case same way Rapid Strikes does but with more % due to the difference between the channel time (1 sec vs 0.6 sec for Rapid Strikes)

Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Each hit increases the damage of the subsequent hit by 5%.
You Heal for 40% of the damage done with this ability.

@Checkmath

StarOfElyon

Ritual of Retribution should be our strong HOT. It's a shame that it doesn't heal more than it does since to receive its benefits we have to stay within the circle.

miteba

Checkmath wrote: »

I agree with you guys

that magplars more than othere classes have to spec for offense to actually be successful in killing stuff. Still a fully offensive build will be most likely also very sqishy if you do not run something like pirate skeleton. As soon as you go a bit more defensively, you will end up in more stalemates than you wanted. Therefore to winning those you need to have solid sustain and more offensive skills, which crowds your bar space.
I personally go for that route and I wish I had more skill slots. My build can dish out enough damage to easely kill potatoes with jabs alone. But facing a decent enemy, I have to use the full damage kit of a dot (vamps bane or solar barrage), jabs as spammable, a damage dealing cc and puryfying light as delayed burst. That is at least 4 skills to kill decent enemies. Then there are the standard skills of rune focus, extended ritual, honor the dead and mistform (any form of moving ability) also taking up 4 slots. leaving me with two additional slots for ele drain and enthropy. 4 of those skills mostly need to be recasted frequently during fights without dealing damage (rune focus, extended ritual, ele drain and enthropy), which makes templars especially vulnerable due to the missing proactive defense while recasting.

This is a big difference to other classes. Stamina toons can use heavy armor sets like seventh legion or fury with bloodspawn to gain innate defense and offense. I agree with many players, that those sets are a bit overtuned, especially for being heavy armor sets, enabling high damage dealing brawler specs. Stamina toons mostly rely on healing over time like vigor and can stay offensive for a prolonged time. Vigor benefits from both high weapon damage and heavy armor a lot. The same is not really possible for magicka toons, since there are no such sets for magicka like seventh legion or fury. Also do most magicka toons get more out of light armor than heavy armor, making them without additional defense quite squishy.

The two magicka classes mostly suffering from this state are IMO magplar and magdk. Both do not synergize as much with the light armor damage shield as classes like sorcs, necroes, wardens and nightblades. The difference is first of the access to the necropotence set (which strenghtens shield size with a high enough health pool) and secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

Many of those problems would be countered by either having a vigor like healing over time to bridge the time to recast buffs and to stay on the offense for a longer time. Also a strong damage shield would alleviate this state (the light armor skill does not provide enough for that purpose tough) and sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

For that reason magplars have to decide, what kind of playstyle they want to:
- sqishy but high damage (which is fine for groupplay and most 1v1 fights)
- with more innate tankyness and sustain, but less damage (which is almost required for solo gameplay in open world)
- healbot/tank (just mentioning here, since its also a "choice")

Checkmate 🤜

BNOC

Delparis wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

secondly the lack of healing over time under that damage shield (sorc doesnt have hots, but an additional damage shield).
That is why dks and templars more rely on a reactive healing ability to counter that. Still dks have quite the protection against ranged enemies and get healing by staying offensively, meanwhile magplars cant. That is why magplars have troubles in PvP due to missing proactive defense, no real hots and many skills, which needs to be recasted frequently without dealing damage.

this can be solved by changing the Honor the dead morph to give a hot instead of magicka back
honor the dead (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself or a wounded ally in front of you for 1273 Health. Healing anyone who is below 75% gives 60% of the initial heal over 6 seconds.

Also change Breath of Life to be more useful
Breath of Life (New)
Beacon your inner light, healing yourself AND a wounded ally in front of you for 1233 Health.

Checkmath wrote: »

sun shield is by far not big enough to serve here. Once blinding flashes solved this problem, but this was taken away.

rework Blazing shield so it would give 50% health shield
Blazing shield (New)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs up to 2623 damage for 6 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off 50% your Max Health. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 20% of the damage it absorbed to nearby enemies

I've run some tests with excel to check if op or not


Also i think Puncturing strikes should remove the snare and swap that with minor berserk to make it worth sloting in pve
Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Gives minor berserk for 3 sec.

@Checkmath

You wont get minor berserk on jabs, devs dont want that.

ok maybe increase the dmg in this case same way Rapid Strikes does but with more % due to the difference between the channel time (1 sec vs 0.6 sec for Rapid Strikes)

Puncturing strikes (New)
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. Each hit increases the damage of the subsequent hit by 5%.
You Heal for 40% of the damage done with this ability.

@Checkmath

Just stop sweeps being mitigated the way they are and sort out the animations as per Joy's post and they'll be pretty good I reckon.