[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Sand_Traven your points do not really hold water with the way the game actually plays. Every Class can do everything. That is the elder scroll way. Some are better then others, if ever so slightly, but on the whole, you are able to clear all content on every class in any role.

Sand_Traven

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Sand_Traven your points do not really hold water with the way the game actually plays. Every Class can do everything. That is the elder scroll way. Some are better then others, if ever so slightly, but on the whole, you are able to clear all content on every class in any role.

I repeat: "They're not technical problems, since the mechanics of abilities and such are not my area of expertise but they're more flavour-based. Both refer to the spirit of what was, to my eyes, promised of this class and the elements of this promise which have, over time, been supplanted by the Dragonknight."

My points referred to the fact that the promise of the Templar is unreflected in its skills, especially when compared to other classes' abilities to pull off the things the Templar was purportedly designed to do, such as fighting undead. I understand this may seem confusing. I'm not saying a Templar can't pull off what others can in the hands of a skilled player. I'm saying that the skills of other classes - fire, poison - are far more suited to achieving the purported role of the Templar than the Templar's own skills. My complaint is one of flavour, not of substance. Does this make more sense?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Both refer to the spirit of what was, to my eyes, promised of this class.

Nothing was promised to you when you started. You had preconceived notions. Let them go and take the game for what it is.

Sand_Traven

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Both refer to the spirit of what was, to my eyes, promised of this class.

Nothing was promised to you when you started. You had preconceived notions. Let them go and take the game for what it is.

A fair point. Perhaps "promised" was a poor choice of word. "Implied" might be a better one; "the potential" is another alternative. Semantics irrelevant to my points. "Take the game for what it is" is a nonsense statement on a forum, far more so on a thread collecting feedback. The thread asks for pain points, I contributed mine.

Luckylancer

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Templars were and are the best healer in PvP and PvE without healing ritual. If we make it usefull, that will make templars even more best in slot for healer, ZoS dont want it. They nerfed templar healer a d buff others for a reason.

Here comes the opinion: remove it, give stamplar something. Magplar dont need it, stamplar needs some buffs. A completely new skill can cure few problems with stamplar. It dont have to be heal too, 3rd and 5th skills are not heal. It can be whatever ZoS decide to buff stamplars.

what do you mean magplars dont need it?

Have you seen a solo magplar?

Right, not including myself, I havent. And I usually derp all over the map during NA's Vivec prime time. Says a lot. Magplars are the ones which need boosts the most of all classes. Saying we are the beast healers makes no sense since every other class can do the same if not better.

As we can see in your response, magplar dont need that instant aoe heal. No one uses it.

"Magplars are the ones which need boosts the most of all classes."
Thats funny way to spell stamsorc. But besides stamsorc, stamplars cant use +%70 of their class tree. So it is ok to remove a skill that magplars dont use and give something new to stamplar.

If you want magplar to be buffed, look at other skills that magplar already use, there are tons of them.

UppGRAYxDD

Dare I say its time to really discuss bringing blinding light back? Maybe also rework dark flare to be an AOE minor/major defile similar to solar barrage. As for @Sand_Traven I feel your pain, maybe a passive rework to add X% dmg to "Holy Fire" abilities when damaging any undead or necromancer....

Delparis

One of the biggest issue Templar got is the Blazing shield. Years after nerf passed and no one is using it anymore.
Why ? because it has a rediculous size compared to the sorc shield or the light armor shield.
the only way to fix it imo is to completly remove the 30% dmg and instead put a static number (as Zenimax don't want us to do complicated maths) and make it scales at 50% of max health.

Blazing shield (NEW)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 50% of your Max Health for 6 seconds.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing XXX damage absorbed to nearby enemies.

@Checkmath @Gilliamtherogue

Checkmath

Delparis wrote: »

One of the biggest issue Templar got is the Blazing shield. Years after nerf passed and no one is using it anymore.
Why ? because it has a rediculous size compared to the sorc shield or the light armor shield.
the only way to fix it imo is to completly remove the 30% dmg and instead put a static number (as Zenimax don't want us to do complicated maths) and make it scales at 50% of max health.

Blazing shield (NEW)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 50% of your Max Health for 6 seconds.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing XXX damage absorbed to nearby enemies.

@Checkmath @Gilliamtherogue

Thx for the feedback.

Altyrann

@ZOS_GinaBruno - any chance of an update on Backlash functioning properly in trial groups? It works fine for solo parses but continues to misfire in groups.

Altyrann

This is what a log looks like (filtered for the stored damage element) on a fight where I was largely standing and hitting a single target. 18 instances of nothing happening versus 19 hits. Roughly half the damage potential is being lost.

StarOfElyon

I'd like to whine about sorcs again. It's extremely frustrating that once they pop their shield it's near impossible to execute them. In fact, beaming them puts you at more risk for getting meteor+mage's wrathed before they die.

So basically, buff Templars.

Vajrak

Delparis wrote: »

One of the biggest issue Templar got is the Blazing shield. Years after nerf passed and no one is using it anymore.
Why ? because it has a rediculous size compared to the sorc shield or the light armor shield.
the only way to fix it imo is to completly remove the 30% dmg and instead put a static number (as Zenimax don't want us to do complicated maths) and make it scales at 50% of max health.

Blazing shield (NEW)
Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 50% of your Max Health for 6 seconds.
When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing XXX damage absorbed to nearby enemies.

@Checkmath @Gilliamtherogue

...so the shields that do no damage...you want to compare to ones that do damage AND shield AND chance to proc bonus damage via Burning Light procs...

Radiant Ward hits pretty hard currently (7.3k on my magplar vs 7.5 on first hit of Blazing Spear).
Blazing Shield --- on my Tankplar, only hits for 6.9k....but my Spear also only does 4.6k on first hit...so that's pretty reasonable...this is on a 45k hp/3k mag recovery tank....And you want it to be able to do more? (base values also, not factoring penetration or such).

Delparis

@Vajrak I think you didn't read well, i propose this blazing shield fix:

1. Shield size of 50%, sorcs got that why not templars
2. The dmg done from the shield should be less than what it does now, maybe some flat value (4k dmg) as this wont hurt pvp
3. Remove the % increase in shield siez because or nearby enemies

In the end it's not you who decide, class rep is competent enough to judge if this true point or not

Mrsinister2

Finally for around to using my Templar and I'm surpringly happy with all the changes.

The gap closer and off balance is fantastic no one gets away and I don't need to slot clench any more.

RAT snare immunity actually allowed me to drop vamp witch I'm very happy about

Jabs feel so much better allthough still horrendous in lag

Total dark is complete garbage and I'll never slot it again.

Radiant ward has a nice damage tool tip but only about a 4k ward. Not sure about this one yet.


Overall much better this patch then anticipated but I'm still a sitting duck to ranged damage. Still get stuck on back bar occasionally but it's not as bad. I guess my only pan point is really still just a little something else to help us go offensive without losing enough health to get into excute range.

Sorc, dk, warden, nb all have a way to reliably mitigate damage enough to go full offensive just give Templar something and I won't complain any more.

Drdeath20

If only ZoS would atleast aknowledge that they are aware of specific bugs to semi decent templar skills. For instance purifying light not going off or stacking.

Nirnroot420

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I'd like to whine about sorcs again. It's extremely frustrating that once they pop their shield it's near impossible to execute them. In fact, beaming them puts you at more risk for getting meteor+mage's wrathed before they die.

So basically, buff Templars.

For shield spamming sorcs, the way beam's channel works means they can spam a shield before each tick of damage, making it seem like our execute is doing no damage at all to a low health shield spamming mag sorc.

When you get a magsorc to this point, any burst damage will be better off at killing a magsorc. Even sweeps is better because the damage ticks on sweeps faster than it does on beam, making it more likely you actually get the magsorc in the grave. If you absolutely have to use beam in this situation, CC the sorc first.

Drdeath20

Nirnroot420 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I'd like to whine about sorcs again. It's extremely frustrating that once they pop their shield it's near impossible to execute them. In fact, beaming them puts you at more risk for getting meteor+mage's wrathed before they die.

So basically, buff Templars.

For shield spamming sorcs, the way beam's channel works means they can spam a shield before each tick of damage, making it seem like our execute is doing no damage at all to a low health shield spamming mag sorc.

When you get a magsorc to this point, any burst damage will be better off at killing a magsorc. Even sweeps is better because the damage ticks on sweeps faster than it does on beam, making it more likely you actually get the magsorc in the grave. If you absolutely have to use beam in this situation, CC the sorc first.

Im very torn about that open channel second. I can kinda understand why it was needed but it just seems like a bit too much counterplay.

StarOfElyon

The problem is that they are able to run once I get them in execute range. So once they get out of reach of my jabs, I have to beam because I can't catch them. I'm not sure if Explosive Charge will find a way into my bars, even if it might be helpful in this one situation. It seems like once that shield is up, they're gone.

GallantGuardian

If we are supposed to be building our “house” would it be uncalled for to ask the devs to ...

remove hasty prayer as a morph place

Minor expedition on another ability

Make the now open morph into a large pbaoe circle a little smaller than our cleansing ritual but larger than our self buff

Once the pbaoe is placed we get a 12% instant health back based on max health and heals over time plus any enemy within the circle is now immobilized for 3 seconds

Reduced the cost of this morph to around 3500-4000 ish Magicka ( not the other morph to this)

Is this op? Too much to ask it knocks out two birds with one stone for Templar tanks

StarOfElyon

I'm on Xbox so I have no way to compare the changes yet - how does Empowering Sweep compare to Crescent Sweep?

Vajrak

Delparis wrote: »

@Vajrak I think you didn't read well, i propose this blazing shield fix:

1. Shield size of 50%, sorcs got that why not templars
2. The dmg done from the shield should be less than what it does now, maybe some flat value (4k dmg) as this wont hurt pvp
3. Remove the % increase in shield siez because or nearby enemies

In the end it's not you who decide, class rep is competent enough to judge if this true point or not

Actually, class rep doesn't decide -- a lot of people complain Templar have no proactive defense. A proactive defense is exactly what Radiant/Blazing are. Lower cost, lower base value -- HIGHER potential value. in the case of ward, 9% per target, and 4% per target in Blazing, so one raises your defensive value (I used this to defeat a Gankblade last night repeatedly), and the other raises your return damage proportionally to its shield value.

So let's see -- Hardened Ward (Sorc) 7.4k value. Harness Magicka 5.9k value, can restore magicka. Radiant Ward 5.4k value + 7.3k mag damage + 9% per target hit scaling on a PBAoE 5m, so in a duel it is a little low (5.8k) in a trash mob or ball, it can get very high (I've had 9-10k shields in PvE with Ward on my Magplar), or Blazing (the tank morph, as its damage scales with your hp basically) for same value on a magplar (low damage) or as already noted, up to a 5k return on a Tank build.

If they increase the shield size and lock the damage value at flat (which you are looking to revert the damage to what it was prior to the last change to it) you are looking at LOSING value on the performance of the shield overall -- for what, a minor gain in value (13% vs Hardened, 3% vs the other morph, as it caps at 37% max hp otherwise).

The issue wasn't in not being able to read, it's in that you are looking for a way to "fix" something that isn't borked any more. Blazing functions as intended (moderate damage return with a high health build), and Ward functions beautifully as is (Class shield that can be proactive or reactive defense, and deals out damage/gains value the more packed in the fight is).

A minor flat increase in shield value (numbers above, 2k at base) for the loss of scaling damage, and scaling resilience, AND you want ot reduce the damage back to frankly sad values (4k flat vs it's current 7.1-7.5k on Magdps and 5-6k on Tank)...yeah, I'll skip on huffing the paint with you.

Delparis

forgot about this gem years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPT85gPa-c

Delparis

@Vajrak

No one is using blazing shield anymore.

why? because blazing shield is a joke, so there are absolutly no effectivness from using it

Templar need protection the same way sorc do. for 20k health balzing shield is 6k shield where Hardened Ward is 10k.

As a tank with 35k health i have the same shield (10.5k) as sorc in light armor with 20k health (10k). This isn't normal

I think you're the only one satisfied with blazing shield. I don't think you're trolling because only bad people go troll in other classes forum to prevent any good change.

But i do believe you're maybe using it in a niche build. however not everyone use it in a niche build here.

Gililamtherogue made a video about this skill being used in niche build too

https://youtu.be/umLq2mzKEvI?t=2461

even if you use it in niche build (pvp?) don't forget that shield effectivness is halved in pvp so a 6k shield becomes 3k shield. if you consider 40% dmg output at max this brings us to 1.2k aoe dmg that can be mitigated that rediculous

Templar need a viable shield that can take enough dmg that's all

The 50% health shield isn't too much asking since templar class kept being nerfed and transformed since 2015 (you can watch the above video to laugh if you want).

The 50% should make tanking more viable and increase survivability in pvp

Fyi I main a templar and I've been tanking, healing and doing dmg with (stamina and magicka DD) so i know well my class weakness

technohic

Yeah I would love for blazing shield to be a thing again on more than just health tanks like it was before shields go halved in Cyrodiil. Right now I am kind of enjoying Radiant Ward alternated in between jabs but it pretty much requires a couple targets. Whats odd is radiant ward always seemed like the defensive and blazing shield as offensive, but blazing does not get very good damage without stacking an insane amount of health.

Got tired of my necro and ran my magplar tonight and I will say overall I am pretty happy with it now with RAT and I actually like radiant aura now. I dont get the pen of using ele drain in stead but its AOE which allows me to go cleave so the only targeted abilities I have is toppling charge and reflective light.

I have not had toppling charge lock up since that early run in the patch. Was actually having issues with HTD not going off though. Hand wouldnt go all the way up and would just stutter but I think that is just the lag of the day.

Magplar may be my main again for the first time in quite a while. Im not big on being the group healer but I don't mind throwing a heal when I can.

technohic

technohic wrote: »

Yeah I would love for blazing shield to be a thing again on more than just health tanks like it was before shields go halved in Cyrodiil. Right now I am kind of enjoying Radiant Ward alternated in between jabs but it pretty much requires a couple targets. Whats odd is radiant ward always seemed like the defensive and blazing shield as offensive, but blazing does not get very good damage without stacking an insane amount of health.

Got tired of my necro and ran my magplar tonight and I will say overall I am pretty happy with it now with RAT and I actually like radiant aura now. I dont get the pen of using ele drain in stead but its AOE which allows me to go cleave so the only targeted abilities I have is toppling charge and reflective light.

I have not had toppling charge lock up since that early run in the patch. Was actually having issues with HTD not going off though. Hand wouldnt go all the way up and would just stutter but I think that is just the lag of the day.

Magplar may be my main again for the first time in quite a while. Im not big on being the group healer but I don't mind throwing a heal when I can.

My feedback would be a general one now. Could we please stop the NPCs in Cyrodiil from spamming negate and eclipse? Or at very least, make their eclipse the same as the current templars. IE not really threatening.

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I'm on Xbox so I have no way to compare the changes yet - how does Empowering Sweep compare to Crescent Sweep?

Just wanna make sure this doesn't get overlooked.

Delparis

@technohic @StarOfElyon a gentle reminder of the thread subject

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

this isn't a Patch note change discussion or Cyrodiil change proposal thread

Please keep this thread constructive, meaningful and clean

Delparis

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Checkmath

Following my previous post, I've noticed I didn't follow the asked format:

My two pain points with templar are survivability in pve/pvp and dps at close combat

1. Sun shield and its morphs:
   • Does not protect enough the be used as pve tank (10k shield isn't enough to be viable in hm content)
   • Isn't big enough to be used in pvp as defensive skill
2. Puncturing Strikes and its morphs:
   • Does not enough dmg to be used in pve as many other guild/weapon skills outperform it
   • Does aoe dmg, so easily mitigated in pvp, the skill does not do enough dmg too as channeled ability

technohic

Delparis wrote: »

@technohic @StarOfElyon a gentle reminder of the thread subject

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

this isn't a Patch note change discussion or Cyrodiil change proposal thread

Please keep this thread constructive, meaningful and clean

Right. Sorry. Had some feedback in there but it's not direct and in format. will work on that

UppGRAYxDD

1) Buff Templar
2) Buff Templar Moar

Is the format correct?