[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Joy_Division

Delparis wrote: »

@technohic @StarOfElyon a gentle reminder of the thread subject

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

this isn't a Patch note change discussion or Cyrodiil change proposal thread

Please keep this thread constructive, meaningful and clean

Probably need a new thread. The original purpose is long obsolete.

StarOfElyon

OK, for me I guess:

I don't have a lot of burst with my melee ranged magplar so I have to rely on trying to hit the opponents with as many dots as possible. But I have to deal with opponents who do have burst and mobility, and so it becomes difficult to stay alive in melee range. If Templars are meant to kill slowly, I'm going to need more protection. If I can't get more protection, give me more burst.

BNOC

Delparis wrote: »

@technohic @StarOfElyon a gentle reminder of the thread subject

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

this isn't a Patch note change discussion or Cyrodiil change proposal thread

Please keep this thread constructive, meaningful and clean

These Templar threads are probably the most constructive threads going in terms of addressing issues and also providing short term advice and support to deal with said issues until ZOS decides to.

danno8

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

Checkmath

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

1) Buff Templar
2) Buff Templar Moar

Is the format correct?

Yeah I guess so.

Minno

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

yea standing still not getting cc'd or fighting an enemy that has more mobility than you even with steed+rat lol

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

@technohic @StarOfElyon a gentle reminder of the thread subject

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

this isn't a Patch note change discussion or Cyrodiil change proposal thread

Please keep this thread constructive, meaningful and clean

Probably need a new thread. The original purpose is long obsolete.

Yea like a one that includes a HUGE design intent that describes in detail how the devs envision each of the classes. Will go a long way to helping us not get salty on the forums lol.

danno8

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

yea standing still not getting cc'd or fighting an enemy that has more mobility than you even with steed+rat lol

But we are all using target skeletons in the examples...

technohic

Joy_Division wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

@technohic @StarOfElyon a gentle reminder of the thread subject

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

this isn't a Patch note change discussion or Cyrodiil change proposal thread

Please keep this thread constructive, meaningful and clean

Probably need a new thread. The original purpose is long obsolete.

Should there maybe be a refocus on the classes in general? Seems a lot of changes have happened since the start of this thread and I honestly feel like magplar has done well at least and some of the early pages may be irrelevant. Not sure where we stand as far as a communication cycle goes with you guys and the devs though; and if there is enough time to compile a new thread before your next discussions or if work is already in progress for more changes.

EDIT: Holy crap! After posting I was like "Lets go look at when this started." It's been over a year? Time has flown for me lately.

Minno

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

yea standing still not getting cc'd or fighting an enemy that has more mobility than you even with steed+rat lol

But we are all using target skeletons in the examples...

I was being facetious

danno8

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

yea standing still not getting cc'd or fighting an enemy that has more mobility than you even with steed+rat lol

But we are all using target skeletons in the examples...

I was being facetious

😆

Vajrak

Delparis wrote: »

@Vajrak

No one is using blazing shield anymore.

why? because blazing shield is a joke, so there are absolutly no effectivness from using it

Templar need protection the same way sorc do. for 20k health balzing shield is 6k shield where Hardened Ward is 10k.

As a tank with 35k health i have the same shield (10.5k) as sorc in light armor with 20k health (10k). This isn't normal

I think you're the only one satisfied with blazing shield. I don't think you're trolling because only bad people go troll in other classes forum to prevent any good change.

But i do believe you're maybe using it in a niche build. however not everyone use it in a niche build here.

Gililamtherogue made a video about this skill being used in niche build too

https://youtu.be/umLq2mzKEvI?t=2461

even if you use it in niche build (pvp?) don't forget that shield effectivness is halved in pvp so a 6k shield becomes 3k shield. if you consider 40% dmg output at max this brings us to 1.2k aoe dmg that can be mitigated that rediculous

Templar need a viable shield that can take enough dmg that's all

The 50% health shield isn't too much asking since templar class kept being nerfed and transformed since 2015 (you can watch the above video to laugh if you want).

The 50% should make tanking more viable and increase survivability in pvp

Fyi I main a templar and I've been tanking, healing and doing dmg with (stamina and magicka DD) so i know well my class weakness

I've been a Templar main since beta myself --- Blazing is for health stack tank builds, not dps builds; on dps builds you use Radiant Ward (same value, lower cost, higher stacking). The niche build you are thinking is my general purpose (PvE and PvP both) magplar.

The niche builds for Blazing do exist, but I'm not running one (at least not currently, I've been enjoying Radiant Ward more for PvE/PvP mixing).

Now if they wanted to make a change to the morph of BLAZING specifically, it does have room for it --- give it that 50% value but also give it a DoT aura instead of return damage (on a 0.5s cd if damage is linked to magicka/spell damage, or a 1s cd if linked to health). I think I've made that suggestion and others before also, and blazing shield on as a dot aura would make more sense with the name and interactions --- hell, make it into a stam morph, even if retaining physical damage, and let stamplars use Blazing and magplars use Radiant (I think that's actually closer to what I've suggested before, giving Stamplars(Tank or not) another viable way to proc Burning Light with Blazing shield as a DoT Aura).

I do want to point out one small flaw in your comparison though -- while a tank with 35k health has the same shield as a sorc in light armor -- you have a much higher EFFECTIVE shield value, as resistances carry to your shield now, and heavy has higher resists, so that shield value is amplified.

ecru

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

Practice? .8/sec (about 48 in one minute) should be easily attainable, any faster is probably out of reach in most situations and is really tight even on a dummy. Just hit a dummy for awhile and get used to the animation/timing. I also parse a lot in general, so there's that.

I don't know why Joy Divion's parses were so far off (or why I'm the only one asking this) but they are not in any way a good representation of how the ability works. It's entirely reasonable for your sweep/jabs+LA to take up a 1.1s (or slightly higher) block in between other abilities even in PVP, not 1.5s like was suggested.

Delparis

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

Would say some buff (sorted down) are in work here to get that much dmg from puncturing sweeps. Maybe macros to get that much hits donno.

Anyway skill testing should be made with no CP, no buffs and no gear

Minno

Looks like the devs had a little QnA on reddit. Some insight into future changes or performance issues (responses from either Matt, Rich or Brian).
Rich:
- " It comes up a lot internally. Performance is generally what holds that back. (loads of new animations, which increases memory..etc)". This might explain why they are slowly making changes to current animations.
- "We are talking about the combat systems overall and evaluating how all the parts within it interact. (level, skills, CP, item sets, food/buffs...etc) We don't have any short term changes planned, but its something we are definitely investigating."

Brian:
- "We look at classes measuring them against each other along with the Necromancer\Warden in terms of delivering an experience that feels appropriate to the Class theme. The Necromancer and Warden opened up the possibility of more stamina based abilities that still fulfill the theme of those classes which we are aware the original four classes don't have just yet."
- "With Elsweyr we started an Ability Audit to apply standards on abilities which has resulted in some builds being more on par with each other in regards to DPS/Tanking/Healing (supportive) roles. We are still doing this Audit across the Weapon/Guild/World lines which will result in more shifts to the norm out there. From there, we'll be looking at the game as a whole in shaping the methods which players can perform DPS/Tanking/Healing (support) roles."
- "We are still monitoring the effects of the Alliance Lock and Imperial City adjustments. With Console launching tomorrow, we'll have more data to look into."
- "We have recently added some changes to Race against Time to get a bit more Magicka mobility out there, but we are aware of the differences between Stam vs. Mag out there in PVP. We also know about the "heavy armor meta" and are looking into solutions to offer more competitive Medium and Light armor players in PVP."
- "Currently there are no plans for Mag Morphs on non Magic Weapon Skill lines but we are looking into the concept of Hybridization viability. We are aware of the desire to update our original four classes in each role of DPS/Tanking/Healing (support) within their Class Skill lines and are looking into methods of doing so."
- "We will be looking at abilities from the perspective of their effectiveness in various roles, and that could result in less chosen morphs or abilities being addressed in the future."
- "We look at a player fantasy we want to offer in classical terms and then see how it fits into Elder Scrolls Lore. The Necromancer fulfilled the fantasy of being a badass that controls the undead and uses those powers to vanquish their foes or aid their allies! We also look into how that is satisfying in the DPS/Tanking/Healing (Support) roles and find out if there's a nice they can fill that other classes do not" - might see more overhaul over the next few updates. But no mention of how the classes fit into this "classical but ESO molded" intent.

Matt:
- "Hello! We have no plans on implementing spears, but we have talked off and on about cool ways to do the one hand magic/one hand weapon thing. That's not on our roadmap anywhere, but we have been brainstorming. There are so many cool things we could do! Seriously, we love these ideas too, but it all comes down to a matter of time and priorities. EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea." This was in reference to spears, one hand/mag rune, and adding battlespirit difficulty to overland.

Delparis

Vajrak wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

@Vajrak

No one is using blazing shield anymore.

why? because blazing shield is a joke, so there are absolutly no effectivness from using it

Templar need protection the same way sorc do. for 20k health balzing shield is 6k shield where Hardened Ward is 10k.

As a tank with 35k health i have the same shield (10.5k) as sorc in light armor with 20k health (10k). This isn't normal

I think you're the only one satisfied with blazing shield. I don't think you're trolling because only bad people go troll in other classes forum to prevent any good change.

But i do believe you're maybe using it in a niche build. however not everyone use it in a niche build here.

Gililamtherogue made a video about this skill being used in niche build too

https://youtu.be/umLq2mzKEvI?t=2461

even if you use it in niche build (pvp?) don't forget that shield effectivness is halved in pvp so a 6k shield becomes 3k shield. if you consider 40% dmg output at max this brings us to 1.2k aoe dmg that can be mitigated that rediculous

Templar need a viable shield that can take enough dmg that's all

The 50% health shield isn't too much asking since templar class kept being nerfed and transformed since 2015 (you can watch the above video to laugh if you want).

The 50% should make tanking more viable and increase survivability in pvp

Fyi I main a templar and I've been tanking, healing and doing dmg with (stamina and magicka DD) so i know well my class weakness

I've been a Templar main since beta myself --- Blazing is for health stack tank builds, not dps builds; on dps builds you use Radiant Ward (same value, lower cost, higher stacking). The niche build you are thinking is my general purpose (PvE and PvP both) magplar.

The niche builds for Blazing do exist, but I'm not running one (at least not currently, I've been enjoying Radiant Ward more for PvE/PvP mixing).

Now if they wanted to make a change to the morph of BLAZING specifically, it does have room for it --- give it that 50% value but also give it a DoT aura instead of return damage (on a 0.5s cd if damage is linked to magicka/spell damage, or a 1s cd if linked to health). I think I've made that suggestion and others before also, and blazing shield on as a dot aura would make more sense with the name and interactions --- hell, make it into a stam morph, even if retaining physical damage, and let stamplars use Blazing and magplars use Radiant (I think that's actually closer to what I've suggested before, giving Stamplars(Tank or not) another viable way to proc Burning Light with Blazing shield as a DoT Aura).

I do want to point out one small flaw in your comparison though -- while a tank with 35k health has the same shield as a sorc in light armor -- you have a much higher EFFECTIVE shield value, as resistances carry to your shield now, and heavy has higher resists, so that shield value is amplified.

how much health can you stack in pvp ? 40k ? 50k?
With that much health Blazing shield size is 7k size with only 1 enemy arround with 4% increased size per nearby enemy. Suppose you have 10 enemy arround that 40% of your 7k shield. that will bring your shield to 10k = 7k * (1 + 0.04 * 10)

The dmg from 10k shield is 3.6k = 10k * 0.36 in pve but 1.8k aoe dmg as dmg are halved in pvp.

again LAUGHABLE

Vajrak

Delparis wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

@Vajrak

No one is using blazing shield anymore.

why? because blazing shield is a joke, so there are absolutly no effectivness from using it

Templar need protection the same way sorc do. for 20k health balzing shield is 6k shield where Hardened Ward is 10k.

As a tank with 35k health i have the same shield (10.5k) as sorc in light armor with 20k health (10k). This isn't normal

I think you're the only one satisfied with blazing shield. I don't think you're trolling because only bad people go troll in other classes forum to prevent any good change.

But i do believe you're maybe using it in a niche build. however not everyone use it in a niche build here.

Gililamtherogue made a video about this skill being used in niche build too

https://youtu.be/umLq2mzKEvI?t=2461

even if you use it in niche build (pvp?) don't forget that shield effectivness is halved in pvp so a 6k shield becomes 3k shield. if you consider 40% dmg output at max this brings us to 1.2k aoe dmg that can be mitigated that rediculous

Templar need a viable shield that can take enough dmg that's all

The 50% health shield isn't too much asking since templar class kept being nerfed and transformed since 2015 (you can watch the above video to laugh if you want).

The 50% should make tanking more viable and increase survivability in pvp

Fyi I main a templar and I've been tanking, healing and doing dmg with (stamina and magicka DD) so i know well my class weakness

I've been a Templar main since beta myself --- Blazing is for health stack tank builds, not dps builds; on dps builds you use Radiant Ward (same value, lower cost, higher stacking). The niche build you are thinking is my general purpose (PvE and PvP both) magplar.

The niche builds for Blazing do exist, but I'm not running one (at least not currently, I've been enjoying Radiant Ward more for PvE/PvP mixing).

Now if they wanted to make a change to the morph of BLAZING specifically, it does have room for it --- give it that 50% value but also give it a DoT aura instead of return damage (on a 0.5s cd if damage is linked to magicka/spell damage, or a 1s cd if linked to health). I think I've made that suggestion and others before also, and blazing shield on as a dot aura would make more sense with the name and interactions --- hell, make it into a stam morph, even if retaining physical damage, and let stamplars use Blazing and magplars use Radiant (I think that's actually closer to what I've suggested before, giving Stamplars(Tank or not) another viable way to proc Burning Light with Blazing shield as a DoT Aura).

I do want to point out one small flaw in your comparison though -- while a tank with 35k health has the same shield as a sorc in light armor -- you have a much higher EFFECTIVE shield value, as resistances carry to your shield now, and heavy has higher resists, so that shield value is amplified.

how much health can you stack in pvp ? 40k ? 50k?
With that much health Blazing shield size is 7k size with only 1 enemy arround with 4% increased size per nearby enemy. Suppose you have 10 enemy arround that 40% of your 7k shield. that will bring your shield to 10k = 7k * (1 + 0.04 * 10)

The dmg from 10k shield is 3.6k = 10k * 0.36 in pve but 1.8k aoe dmg as dmg are halved in pvp.

again LAUGHABLE

You made me curious about it, so I did a fast and dirty throw together to see

With Battle Spirit in place, the highest HP Blazing Shield Templar rough out I could get has...
79k HP
14.6k base shield (0 targets), 20.4k maximized (Again this is inclusive of battle spirit)
Damage return (with proper cp) is 38% returned on the busted shield --- so 5.5k - 7.7k, or 2.7k/3.8k with battle spirit inclusive -- PBAoE.

This is with 32k spell resist, 29k physical resist (so a little lower for that raw hp)

That was a quick and dirty throw together, so I could probably pump it higher if I really wanted to push it.

2.7-3.8k is a reasonable hit in PvP, and 79k hp is a hell of a lot of hp to go through with near max resists (and then of course having to go through the shield as well, so your first run you're looking at 93k damage you have to put out.

miteba

BNOC wrote: »

hese Templar threads are probably the most constructive threads going in terms of addressing issues and also providing short term advice and support to deal with said issues until ZOS decides to.

That's because we templars are a "clerical" and noble class!
Educated since our childhood to be natural leaders and moderate the community affairs, even by force if reason doesnt prevail.
Templars are well versed scholars, speak more than one language and excel at mathematics (theorycrafters), phylosophy , medicine (healers) and other social sciences.

@StarOfElyon And since we are awesome moderators, as i said earlier, our damage cannot be too bursty, neither our protection can be too high... We must mantain the balance.

So we can assume ZoS was very accurate towards templar class 😂

dodgehopper_ESO

Sand_Traven wrote: »

Assuming top two pain points with Templars are still the point of this thread, I'll post mine. They're not technical problems, since the mechanics of abilities and such are not my area of expertise but they're more flavour-based. Both refer to the spirit of what was, to my eyes, promised of this class and the elements of this promise which have, over time, been supplanted by the Dragonknight.

1) This class, to my knowledge, was supposed to be that of the holy warrior, donned in heavy armour. Heavy armour in this game is geared towards tanking. The skillset of a Templar is, from what I've gleaned when asking about this for my own toon-building, possibly the least suited to this sort of gameplay. None of the Templar's skills give an advantage to tanking that other classes' skills do not supersede. What the Templar seems good at, by popular consensus, is healing; but why call it Templar? The Knight Templar, historically, were warriors who protected pilgrims. While they might've had some among their order who could care for the sick and wounded, an association with healthcare would be more attributable to other knightly orders such as the Knights Hospitaller or the Order of St Lazarus. The name "Templar" is misleading, as none of the USP of this class has anything to do with the Templars.

2) My second pain point ties into the first, but is specific enough to warrant its own point. Having ascertained that Templars in ESO have nothing to do with Templars IRL, we can look at what they're supposed to be in The Elder Scrolls. Am I right in thinking they're supposed to be specialists in combating daedra and undead? If so, where are the bonuses to this? Such a thing exists with a passive in the Fighters' Guild skillset, but the Templar receives no such bonus. In fact, the Dragonknight is far more suited to this task than the Templar. Vampires are weak to fire. On which class does virtually every class skill deliver fire damage? Which class receives large passive bonuses to fire damage? The Dragonknight. Werewolves are weak to poison. On which class are the morphs geared towards the delivery of poison damage and status effects? Which class receives passive bonuses to poison damage? The Dragonknight. The Templar does not even have any class-exclusive poison abilities, unless I've missed something. So what is supposed to be the very purpose of the Templar is a role filled far better by the Dragonknight.

This has been my complaint as well for a long time. This is why I refuse to give up on the notion of blinding flashes. They could have changed the type of cc this was instead of utterly GUTTING the class CC. This is a huge part of what they did which harmed tanking for Templars. There are other things I could go into but I won't because I've said it many times and not in the mood to rehash old issues. Templar is workable right now but as a guy who loves tanking they really fubarred this class and it still is a bit herky jerky despite being generally cool. The 3 big changes I think they should make are:

1. Stam Morph for Toppling Charge.
2. Make Aedric Sweeps Ulti more like Dragon Leap (imagine a flying leap with a holy spear followed by an explosion. Boom. That'd be cool).
3. One morph of Radiant Destruction should be blinding flashes.

Templar doesn't get a lot of ultimate but with proper cc it would be good for tanks and pvp as well as give Stamina players more use of class abilities (Charge and Ulti). For goodness sake they should use some of what they said was cool for Necros and apply it to Templar (exactly what I'm suggesting above). Throw us a bone ZoS. The class has no f-ing CC apart from the Javelin. How do they possibly think this is good for tanking? We are not stupid.

By the way @Sand_Traven there's another thematic issue that is more egregious in my view. The way Templar was designed it is clear they are often better as a Vampire at least for most of the life of this game. This has always bothered me. The problem started when they gutted the regeneration inherent to the class very near or slightly before the release of the game. In fact I'm pretty sure it was in the beta that they gutted Templar. Things are a bit better now but the fact remains the Templar skillset is still pretty decent with Vampirism. I'm personally hopeful that they consider dealing with one of the worthless passives and applying that effect toward exactly what you're talking about.

dodgehopper_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Both refer to the spirit of what was, to my eyes, promised of this class.

Nothing was promised to you when you started. You had preconceived notions. Let them go and take the game for what it is.

No he's dead on. The Templar class theme has been regularly fubarred and it goes against the grain of their design choices. The fact that they STILL can't seem to set up proper tanking abilities for Templar is evidence of this. You could make it work but it is literally one of the worst tanks you can play in the game. In terms of heals it also doesn't live up to the promise any more (a large reason why they gutted the class so many times). Templar needs love both in terms of theme, animation, and playstyle.

dodgehopper_ESO

Vajrak wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

@Vajrak

No one is using blazing shield anymore.

why? because blazing shield is a joke, so there are absolutly no effectivness from using it

Templar need protection the same way sorc do. for 20k health balzing shield is 6k shield where Hardened Ward is 10k.

As a tank with 35k health i have the same shield (10.5k) as sorc in light armor with 20k health (10k). This isn't normal

I think you're the only one satisfied with blazing shield. I don't think you're trolling because only bad people go troll in other classes forum to prevent any good change.

But i do believe you're maybe using it in a niche build. however not everyone use it in a niche build here.

Gililamtherogue made a video about this skill being used in niche build too

https://youtu.be/umLq2mzKEvI?t=2461

even if you use it in niche build (pvp?) don't forget that shield effectivness is halved in pvp so a 6k shield becomes 3k shield. if you consider 40% dmg output at max this brings us to 1.2k aoe dmg that can be mitigated that rediculous

Templar need a viable shield that can take enough dmg that's all

The 50% health shield isn't too much asking since templar class kept being nerfed and transformed since 2015 (you can watch the above video to laugh if you want).

The 50% should make tanking more viable and increase survivability in pvp

Fyi I main a templar and I've been tanking, healing and doing dmg with (stamina and magicka DD) so i know well my class weakness

I've been a Templar main since beta myself --- Blazing is for health stack tank builds, not dps builds; on dps builds you use Radiant Ward (same value, lower cost, higher stacking). The niche build you are thinking is my general purpose (PvE and PvP both) magplar.

The niche builds for Blazing do exist, but I'm not running one (at least not currently, I've been enjoying Radiant Ward more for PvE/PvP mixing).

Now if they wanted to make a change to the morph of BLAZING specifically, it does have room for it --- give it that 50% value but also give it a DoT aura instead of return damage (on a 0.5s cd if damage is linked to magicka/spell damage, or a 1s cd if linked to health). I think I've made that suggestion and others before also, and blazing shield on as a dot aura would make more sense with the name and interactions --- hell, make it into a stam morph, even if retaining physical damage, and let stamplars use Blazing and magplars use Radiant (I think that's actually closer to what I've suggested before, giving Stamplars(Tank or not) another viable way to proc Burning Light with Blazing shield as a DoT Aura).

I do want to point out one small flaw in your comparison though -- while a tank with 35k health has the same shield as a sorc in light armor -- you have a much higher EFFECTIVE shield value, as resistances carry to your shield now, and heavy has higher resists, so that shield value is amplified.

I wish burning light could proc on any attack for 3 or 4 seconds after using an aedric skill. It would make it a lot more useful. One reason that Storc is so fun to play is that the class itself plays well with weapon skill lines. Templar is very greedy for class skills else you get nothing out of your passives (many of which aren't that good or are complete crap... still). Templar does have a few good passives I'll not deny but there are some that are just atrocious and we all know it (I suspect so does ZoS). I feel instead of making new classes they need to go back and use what they learned from Warden and Necros and start to apply that knowledge to everyone else. Templar has always been the redheaded stepchild. I'm hoping that ends some day.

Anti_Virus

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

Delparis wrote: »

@Vajrak

No one is using blazing shield anymore.

why? because blazing shield is a joke, so there are absolutly no effectivness from using it

Templar need protection the same way sorc do. for 20k health balzing shield is 6k shield where Hardened Ward is 10k.

As a tank with 35k health i have the same shield (10.5k) as sorc in light armor with 20k health (10k). This isn't normal

I think you're the only one satisfied with blazing shield. I don't think you're trolling because only bad people go troll in other classes forum to prevent any good change.

But i do believe you're maybe using it in a niche build. however not everyone use it in a niche build here.

Gililamtherogue made a video about this skill being used in niche build too

https://youtu.be/umLq2mzKEvI?t=2461

even if you use it in niche build (pvp?) don't forget that shield effectivness is halved in pvp so a 6k shield becomes 3k shield. if you consider 40% dmg output at max this brings us to 1.2k aoe dmg that can be mitigated that rediculous

Templar need a viable shield that can take enough dmg that's all

The 50% health shield isn't too much asking since templar class kept being nerfed and transformed since 2015 (you can watch the above video to laugh if you want).

The 50% should make tanking more viable and increase survivability in pvp

Fyi I main a templar and I've been tanking, healing and doing dmg with (stamina and magicka DD) so i know well my class weakness

I've been a Templar main since beta myself --- Blazing is for health stack tank builds, not dps builds; on dps builds you use Radiant Ward (same value, lower cost, higher stacking). The niche build you are thinking is my general purpose (PvE and PvP both) magplar.

The niche builds for Blazing do exist, but I'm not running one (at least not currently, I've been enjoying Radiant Ward more for PvE/PvP mixing).

Now if they wanted to make a change to the morph of BLAZING specifically, it does have room for it --- give it that 50% value but also give it a DoT aura instead of return damage (on a 0.5s cd if damage is linked to magicka/spell damage, or a 1s cd if linked to health). I think I've made that suggestion and others before also, and blazing shield on as a dot aura would make more sense with the name and interactions --- hell, make it into a stam morph, even if retaining physical damage, and let stamplars use Blazing and magplars use Radiant (I think that's actually closer to what I've suggested before, giving Stamplars(Tank or not) another viable way to proc Burning Light with Blazing shield as a DoT Aura).

I do want to point out one small flaw in your comparison though -- while a tank with 35k health has the same shield as a sorc in light armor -- you have a much higher EFFECTIVE shield value, as resistances carry to your shield now, and heavy has higher resists, so that shield value is amplified.

I wish burning light could proc on any attack for 3 or 4 seconds after using an aedric skill. It would make it a lot more useful. One reason that Storc is so fun to play is that the class itself plays well with weapon skill lines. Templar is very greedy for class skills else you get nothing out of your passives (many of which aren't that good or are complete crap... still). Templar does have a few good passives I'll not deny but there are some that are just atrocious and we all know it (I suspect so does ZoS). I feel instead of making new classes they need to go back and use what they learned from Warden and Necros and start to apply that knowledge to everyone else. Templar has always been the redheaded stepchild. I'm hoping that ends some day.

Stam templar should at least have honor the dead be a stam morph, also that burning light passive idea is king pin.

I hate having to use bitting jabs Would prefer Wrecking blow or Rapid strikes.

Lastly I wish Power the light only copied the casters damage, blew up in three seconds and the copy damage thresh hold increased (make it blockable for counter play).

Vajrak

Honor the Dead is fine as is.

Skills that need to be fixed/revisited/debugged:

Toppling Charge -- convert to Stamina/Physical Damage

Blazing Shield -- increase value to 45% hp, apply 18s PBAoE Aura, 2s/tick, Physical damage

Balanced Warrior -- 2% damage done/1% less damage taken per Templar skill slotted

Power of the Light --- it is only semi-reliably under the best conditions.

Eclipse --- remove the CC interaction, make it a cleanse instead, so that it stays relevant PvE and PvP; it will still have counterplay, but becomes a reliable mechanics for tanks and magdps.

Radiant Oppression --- consider converting into a stamina morph, remove the channel and bonus damage for a DoT application tick over 3s (Physical damage); change animation into a single thrust of Aedric Light

Solar Barrage --- convert to Stamina/Physical Damage

Enduring Rays --- 2% PBAoE Aura HoT/5s, 8m (10% total restored over the duration) when a Dawn's Wrath ability is used

Restoring Spirit --- increase to 6%

Healing Ritual --- reinstate cast time, and reduce cost accordingly; 1s cast time on it is fine.

Radiant Aura --- add minor staminasteal to this morph; adjust time to include the 20% duration from Light Weaver (to be changed)

Light Weaver --- While Restoring Aura is slotted, all heals create a 5m aura around you that heals for x every 2s. X scales at 1.5/3% max health.

Cinbri

Regarding passives, since it should get audit next update: Lets hope that passive will be update by buffs, and not just by nerfing all passives to usefulness of most useless passives...

1. Restoring Spirit - as I was suggesting - to make it 4% of reducing all costs.
Take into consideration that zos equalize stuff with sets bonuses - so taking as base value stats of last released class - necro: Undead Confederate with 200 regen of mana/stam with limitation on paper, which is being 80% strength of Amber Plasm set bonus. There is no set that grant only reduction of mana/stamina/ult so taking into account Alteration set: 80% of 6% is 4.8%. So, almost same % as now that will be lower coz diminishings anyway.
Thus to equalize strength of resource passive it's low % of reduction should reduce all costs(like was done with Imperials).


2. Spear Wall - in comparison with Sacred Ground passive(both provide minor buff) it is lucklaster. And taking zos logic regarding SG passive - from 3.0.5: "Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we'd like" Its major buff was changed to minor coz possibility to have near 100% uptime; so taking this logic minor buffs should have smth like closer to 100% uptime. (spamming jabs that is only spammable skill that can be used in rapid succession is not validate low duration of protection because it not passive mechanic like SG)
So, despite both passives in same hierarchy -14/27 lvl in skill tree, it has difference in effectiveness:
A. while minor mending of SG passive last 4sec after leaving area, yet minor protection from SW passive lasts only 3sec.
B. While SG passive can prolong its duration passively by standing inside huge radius of Cleansing Ritual, yet SW passive had to be activated every 3sec.
C. While SG grant also huge aoe passive snare as magicka-like version of Caltrops, yet SW passive don't have any bonus.
So, to make it consistent at least inside 1 class, ther should be some treatment:
1. Increase duration of SW passive from 1.5(<-- not whole number btw)/3 to higher numbers than 4sec(4/8 for example to account the duration of Spear Shards) given that this bonus can't be achieved passively for 20+sec after casting 1skill like minor mending. In addition passive don't have additional effect like snare of SG.
2. Add reversed effect of 30% snare of SC - major speed buff for 1/2sec upon casting Aedric skill, increase duration of minor protection to 2/4sec. So this passive will be fully equal to its defensive passive from restoring light tree.
3. Change 1.5/3 minor protection into 1/2 major protection. So, it will have even less uptime but it will be strong buff that realistically will have more than 10% uptime only on build that utilize aedric spear spammable - jabs, which is channel and thus it will be nearly comparable to Deliberation passive. (sounds bit OP for spamming jabs but who knows what way zos taking)
In 2 and 3 passive will focus on benefit class spammable - Jabs, same like Sacred Ground focus on benefit its area of protection skills.


3. Light Weaver - passive that need complete overhaul because too conditional bonuses.
Its first bonus of increase Radiant Aura time is not needed as base skill got duration update last chapter making it without passive averagely same time as it was before with passive; and in addition it cost zero mana so duration wont affect sustain as you can spam it as much as you want without hurting sustain.
It 2nd bonus of granting 2 ult upon use Healing Ritual has to wide effectiveness - zero effect for anyone who is not using this particular skill, low effectiveness coz hp threshold of proc and too big effectiveness in hard fight when caster can generate like 14 ult per cast.
3rd bonus is too conditional too - you gain zero benefit if you don't use this tree ultimate, and proc attached to channel nature of ult that by itself sould be overhauled.
Overall passive attached to the most situative skills and in majority of builds this passive simply won't be active.

and Master Ritualist - another passive should get full rebalance as this is passive that unlike every other class passive ingame don't have serious benefit for class in combat nor outside of combat, no matter if you do pve/pvp/rp. If count its effectiveness by "uptime", i.e. duration of resurrecting beam - it will be like 0.X% uptime.

So, here is couple ideas:
1. Change one of the passives, for example Master Ritualist, to be templar version of Icy Aura - reduce effectiveness of defile effects on you for X%. Since getting overhaul to make 2 usefull defensive passives might boost healing role too much in pve, there could be done same what was implemented for wardens and later used for redguards to grant them smth good but not overbuff them - one of the overhauled passives could be very conditional and work only in pvp aspect of game. Defile reduction will be useless mostly in pve and in pvp it will take into account that entire templar defense is healing that can be negated just by 1 debuff. Such effect wont be active by itself but as soon as meet defile it will work as additional healing modifier under this debuff.
2. Another passive - Light Weaver, should stop being that skill-conditional. It can loose all its conditional bonuses but take one of it and turn it into full reliable bonus. Since duration of Radiant Aura is pointless effect - it can be taken ult gain or ult proc effects:
A: change it 2ult by using Healing Ritual under 60%hp into grant 2 ult to caster when healed by any Restoring Tree direct heal/hot while under 75%hp, with 1sec cooldown, i.e. smth like effect similar to warden Nature's Gift.
B: or take other effect and change granting Armor when channel Rite of Passage into granting same amount of 16500 Armor/major buff for Xsec after activating any ultimate skill. So it will be more inline with how dk Battle Roar performs.
3. Or just change one of the passives to be defensive versions of its offensive counterparts like Piercing Spear - since we lost boost to critical healing by this passive it should be regain as passive bonus for one of the restoring tree passives. And since PS passive double but one of the effects is affect pvp only - maybe combine 10% crit healing boost with other pvp-only effect, maybe even reduction of defile effect from above or "increase your healing for 10% when you under defile debuff".


Aedric Spear skill line:
It has potential to be one of the most unique classes skill tree because this skill tree is smth like "holy" imitation on spears weapon line when majority of skills is creating glowing spear in our hands; and skills like Piercing Javelin being direct copy as ordinary spear abilities of npcs. It understandable that this skillline is offensive tanking line but why not mix it with this feeling of having unique weapon line incorporated into class line that will make it automatically one of the most unique lines?
Could be done by swapping one of the passives - Burning Light or Balanced Warrior into smth like - allow all Aedric Spear skills to proc weapon enchants and granting 20% of proc poisons and increase effectiveness of weapon enchant/poison by X%. Smth like Torug set bonus


Jabs:
Its 6 width area that means 3m left and right from cross is not enough in strafe because of how many calculations per 1second this skill takes. And this even outside of lags it land terribly and with lags its pretty large area is de facto much lower coz game unable to calculate properly area of landing jabs nor with width nor length. Causing stuff like this to be common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-LMQWXLhs
However not sure that increasing width area would be right approach, is it only transform spammable into huge aoe.

Another annoying thing is heal of Puncturing Sweep - it doesn't have big heal but also don't have cap that turn skill into 1 button spam in pve coz when you face horde of npcs - hitting them with just this 1 skill literally grant you god mode. And unlike Inhale it not follow rule that aoe deal 100%damage of standard aoe and 50%vampire heal from it or 50%damage of standard aoe with 100%vampire heal. However downside of this is making heal terribly in any scenario where you don't grind uncapped amount of low-armored trash npc.
Maybe treat this morph clother to other comparable skill of tanking skill line - necro Hungry Scythe? Maybe if not swap heal based on damage done for moderate heal(however for Scythe and Devouring Swarm moderate heal works great) but at least increase % of heal with capping heal on 6 total targets like Scythe does? Those 2 skill already have common things in heal conditions - scythe heal more for first enemy hit while not having damage increase for closest target, while jabs have closest-target increase and since heal scale of damage - first enemy hitted heal more too.
Just to lower total ceiling of heal while increase average floor of heal, or whatever zos called their goals. To make Puncturing Seep less brainless spam button for grinding and more effective skill in trials or pvp content.

Radial Sweep - we know that faster dots means more server calculations and lags and bla-bla and thus their frequency was lowered from 1sec to 2sec, but this should be applied to skills only that can be spammed and not to ultimate abilities that have pretty solid time limits, with their role to be strong burst or bursty-DoT abilities. And thus Radial Sweep DoT(even tho it direct damage attack) should tick every 1second instead of every 2second, making total dot duration to 3sec not 6. It will place it in line with other ultimate abilities that has DoT ticking with 1sec frequency not 2. It will make it better fill role of ultimate ability to be bursty. On side it will make Empower for Empowering Sweep twice shorter but this effect attached to ult is bad by itself while high frequency will make ult more bursty too (from 18sec to 9).
P.S.: it entire situation is wrong with granting Empowering Sweep such bonuses. Since it seems zos will never do at least 1 morpg of Nova to be proper pvp ult for everyone who is not ball-groups, they could make at least Radial Sweep to be our high-offensive ult: for example take it scaling from Incap and add dot scaling from Empowering Sweep, and as result we would have cheap ult but when you use it from 120+ult points it gain ability to scale its DoT/CC, making it at the same time expensive ult but that can deal high damage against large amount of enemies, like Leap or DB or Soul Siphon or Perma and being viable not for zergs only like current Nova.
P.S.S.: its bug of missing enemies inside aoe is still here so now it can miss inside 8meters instead of 6

P.S.: even adds have portable healing aura like this:

Why not transform Cleansing Ritual or Healing Ritual or Rite of Passage into same portable AoE HoT.
Btw for Xivkyns Lacerators this mobile HoT skill counts same as their other skill - npc version of old Remembrance that they channel and grant mitigation to all npcs in radius - as npc ultimate ability. So, this is literally improved Rite of Passage incorporated for npc

Vapirko

Cinbri wrote: »

Regarding passives, since it should get audit next update: Lets hope that passive will be update by buffs, and not just by nerfing all passives to usefulness of most useless passives...

1. Restoring Spirit - as I was suggesting - to make it 4% of reducing all costs.
Take into consideration that zos equalize stuff with sets bonuses - so taking as base value stats of last released class - necro: Undead Confederate with 200 regen of mana/stam with limitation on paper, which is being 80% strength of Amber Plasm set bonus. There is no set that grant only reduction of mana/stamina/ult so taking into account Alteration set: 80% of 6% is 4.8%. So, almost same % as now that will be lower coz diminishings anyway.
Thus to equalize strength of resource passive it's low % of reduction should reduce all costs(like was done with Imperials).


2. Spear Wall - in comparison with Sacred Ground passive(both provide minor buff) it is lucklaster. And taking zos logic regarding SG passive - from 3.0.5: "Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we'd like" Its major buff was changed to minor coz possibility to have near 100% uptime; so taking this logic minor buffs should have smth like closer to 100% uptime. (spamming jabs that is only spammable skill that can be used in rapid succession is not validate low duration of protection because it not passive mechanic like SG)
So, despite both passives in same hierarchy -14/27 lvl in skill tree, it has difference in effectiveness:
A. while minor mending of SG passive last 4sec after leaving area, yet minor protection from SW passive lasts only 3sec.
B. While SG passive can prolong its duration passively by standing inside huge radius of Cleansing Ritual, yet SW passive had to be activated every 3sec.
C. While SG grant also huge aoe passive snare as magicka-like version of Caltrops, yet SW passive don't have any bonus.
So, to make it consistent at least inside 1 class, ther should be some treatment:
1. Increase duration of SW passive from 1.5(<-- not whole number btw)/3 to higher numbers than 4sec(4/8 for example to account the duration of Spear Shards) given that this bonus can't be achieved passively for 20+sec after casting 1skill like minor mending. In addition passive don't have additional effect like snare of SG.
2. Add reversed effect of 30% snare of SC - major speed buff for 1/2sec upon casting Aedric skill, increase duration of minor protection to 2/4sec. So this passive will be fully equal to its defensive passive from restoring light tree.
3. Change 1.5/3 minor protection into 1/2 major protection. So, it will have even less uptime but it will be strong buff that realistically will have more than 10% uptime only on build that utilize aedric spear spammable - jabs, which is channel and thus it will be nearly comparable to Deliberation passive. (sounds bit OP for spamming jabs but who knows what way zos taking)
In 2 and 3 passive will focus on benefit class spammable - Jabs, same like Sacred Ground focus on benefit its area of protection skills.


3. Light Weaver - passive that need complete overhaul because too conditional bonuses.
Its first bonus of increase Radiant Aura time is not needed as base skill got duration update last chapter making it without passive averagely same time as it was before with passive; and in addition it cost zero mana so duration wont affect sustain as you can spam it as much as you want without hurting sustain.
It 2nd bonus of granting 2 ult upon use Healing Ritual has to wide effectiveness - zero effect for anyone who is not using this particular skill, low effectiveness coz hp threshold of proc and too big effectiveness in hard fight when caster can generate like 14 ult per cast.
3rd bonus is too conditional too - you gain zero benefit if you don't use this tree ultimate, and proc attached to channel nature of ult that by itself sould be overhauled.
Overall passive attached to the most situative skills and in majority of builds this passive simply won't be active.

and Master Ritualist - another passive should get full rebalance as this is passive that unlike every other class passive ingame don't have serious benefit for class in combat nor outside of combat, no matter if you do pve/pvp/rp. If count its effectiveness by "uptime", i.e. duration of resurrecting beam - it will be like 0.X% uptime.

So, here is couple ideas:
1. Change one of the passives, for example Master Ritualist, to be templar version of Icy Aura - reduce effectiveness of defile effects on you for X%. Since getting overhaul to make 2 usefull defensive passives might boost healing role too much in pve, there could be done same what was implemented for wardens and later used for redguards to grant them smth good but not overbuff them - one of the overhauled passives could be very conditional and work only in pvp aspect of game. Defile reduction will be useless mostly in pve and in pvp it will take into account that entire templar defense is healing that can be negated just by 1 debuff. Such effect wont be active by itself but as soon as meet defile it will work as additional healing modifier under this debuff.
2. Another passive - Light Weaver, should stop being that skill-conditional. It can loose all its conditional bonuses but take one of it and turn it into full reliable bonus. Since duration of Radiant Aura is pointless effect - it can be taken ult gain or ult proc effects:
A: change it 2ult by using Healing Ritual under 60%hp into grant 2 ult to caster when healed by any Restoring Tree direct heal/hot while under 75%hp, with 1sec cooldown, i.e. smth like effect similar to warden Nature's Gift.
B: or take other effect and change granting Armor when channel Rite of Passage into granting same amount of 16500 Armor/major buff for Xsec after activating any ultimate skill. So it will be more inline with how dk Battle Roar performs.
3. Or just change one of the passives to be defensive versions of its offensive counterparts like Piercing Spear - since we lost boost to critical healing by this passive it should be regain as passive bonus for one of the restoring tree passives. And since PS passive double but one of the effects is affect pvp only - maybe combine 10% crit healing boost with other pvp-only effect, maybe even reduction of defile effect from above or "increase your healing for 10% when you under defile debuff".


Aedric Spear skill line:
It has potential to be one of the most unique classes skill tree because this skill tree is smth like "holy" imitation on spears weapon line when majority of skills is creating glowing spear in our hands; and skills like Piercing Javelin being direct copy as ordinary spear abilities of npcs. It understandable that this skillline is offensive tanking line but why not mix it with this feeling of having unique weapon line incorporated into class line that will make it automatically one of the most unique lines?
Could be done by swapping one of the passives - Burning Light or Balanced Warrior into smth like - allow all Aedric Spear skills to proc weapon enchants and granting 20% of proc poisons and increase effectiveness of weapon enchant/poison by X%. Smth like Torug set bonus


Jabs:
Its 6 width area that means 3m left and right from cross is not enough in strafe because of how many calculations per 1second this skill takes. And this even outside of lags it land terribly and with lags its pretty large area is de facto much lower coz game unable to calculate properly area of landing jabs nor with width nor length. Causing stuff like this to be common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-LMQWXLhs
However not sure that increasing width area would be right approach, is it only transform spammable into huge aoe.

Another annoying thing is heal of Puncturing Sweep - it doesn't have big heal but also don't have cap that turn skill into 1 button spam in pve coz when you face horde of npcs - hitting them with just this 1 skill literally grant you god mode. And unlike Inhale it not follow rule that aoe deal 100%damage of standard aoe and 50%vampire heal from it or 50%damage of standard aoe with 100%vampire heal. However downside of this is making heal terribly in any scenario where you don't grind uncapped amount of low-armored trash npc.
Maybe treat this morph clother to other comparable skill of tanking skill line - necro Hungry Scythe? Maybe if not swap heal based on damage done for moderate heal(however for Scythe and Devouring Swarm moderate heal works great) but at least increase % of heal with capping heal on 6 total targets like Scythe does? Those 2 skill already have common things in heal conditions - scythe heal more for first enemy hit while not having damage increase for closest target, while jabs have closest-target increase and since heal scale of damage - first enemy hitted heal more too.
Just to lower total ceiling of heal while increase average floor of heal, or whatever zos called their goals. To make Puncturing Seep less brainless spam button for grinding and more effective skill in trials or pvp content.

Radial Sweep - we know that faster dots means more server calculations and lags and bla-bla and thus their frequency was lowered from 1sec to 2sec, but this should be applied to skills only that can be spammed and not to ultimate abilities that have pretty solid time limits, with their role to be strong burst or bursty-DoT abilities. And thus Radial Sweep DoT(even tho it direct damage attack) should tick every 1second instead of every 2second, making total dot duration to 3sec not 6. It will place it in line with other ultimate abilities that has DoT ticking with 1sec frequency not 2. It will make it better fill role of ultimate ability to be bursty. On side it will make Empower for Empowering Sweep twice shorter but this effect attached to ult is bad by itself while high frequency will make ult more bursty too (from 18sec to 9).
P.S.: it entire situation is wrong with granting Empowering Sweep such bonuses. Since it seems zos will never do at least 1 morpg of Nova to be proper pvp ult for everyone who is not ball-groups, they could make at least Radial Sweep to be our high-offensive ult: for example take it scaling from Incap and add dot scaling from Empowering Sweep, and as result we would have cheap ult but when you use it from 120+ult points it gain ability to scale its DoT/CC, making it at the same time expensive ult but that can deal high damage against large amount of enemies, like Leap or DB or Soul Siphon or Perma and being viable not for zergs only like current Nova.
P.S.S.: its bug of missing enemies inside aoe is still here so now it can miss inside 8meters instead of 6

P.S.: even adds have portable healing aura like this:

Why not transform Cleansing Ritual or Healing Ritual or Rite of Passage into same portable AoE HoT.
Btw for Xivkyns Lacerators this mobile HoT skill counts same as their other skill - npc version of old Remembrance that they channel and grant mitigation to all npcs in radius - as npc ultimate ability. So, this is literally improved Rite of Passage incorporated for npc

Some decent suggestions here, but judging from that recent reddit clip that Minno posted it doesn’t seem like ZOS is going to revisit class skills anytime soon. If the class reps are aware of the possibility of more changes coming that’s great. But everything I’ve read suggests that the window for that has closed.

BNOC

Minno wrote: »

Looks like the devs had a little QnA on reddit. Some insight into future changes or performance issues (responses from either Matt, Rich or Brian).
...

I wish they wouldn't do these on Reddit; the worst kind of players.

Altyrann

Drdeath20 wrote: »

If only ZoS would atleast aknowledge that they are aware of specific bugs to semi decent templar skills. For instance purifying light not going off or stacking.

Indeed - would be great to know that a fundamentally broken skill is being looked at with some urgency. It's not a request for a change, just a desire to have a damage skill actually deal damage.

Delparis

Cinbri wrote: »

Regarding passives, since it should get audit next update: Lets hope that passive will be update by buffs, and not just by nerfing all passives to usefulness of most useless passives...

1. Restoring Spirit - as I was suggesting - to make it 4% of reducing all costs.
Take into consideration that zos equalize stuff with sets bonuses - so taking as base value stats of last released class - necro: Undead Confederate with 200 regen of mana/stam with limitation on paper, which is being 80% strength of Amber Plasm set bonus. There is no set that grant only reduction of mana/stamina/ult so taking into account Alteration set: 80% of 6% is 4.8%. So, almost same % as now that will be lower coz diminishings anyway.
Thus to equalize strength of resource passive it's low % of reduction should reduce all costs(like was done with Imperials).


2. Spear Wall - in comparison with Sacred Ground passive(both provide minor buff) it is lucklaster. And taking zos logic regarding SG passive - from 3.0.5: "Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we'd like" Its major buff was changed to minor coz possibility to have near 100% uptime; so taking this logic minor buffs should have smth like closer to 100% uptime. (spamming jabs that is only spammable skill that can be used in rapid succession is not validate low duration of protection because it not passive mechanic like SG)
So, despite both passives in same hierarchy -14/27 lvl in skill tree, it has difference in effectiveness:
A. while minor mending of SG passive last 4sec after leaving area, yet minor protection from SW passive lasts only 3sec.
B. While SG passive can prolong its duration passively by standing inside huge radius of Cleansing Ritual, yet SW passive had to be activated every 3sec.
C. While SG grant also huge aoe passive snare as magicka-like version of Caltrops, yet SW passive don't have any bonus.
So, to make it consistent at least inside 1 class, ther should be some treatment:
1. Increase duration of SW passive from 1.5(<-- not whole number btw)/3 to higher numbers than 4sec(4/8 for example to account the duration of Spear Shards) given that this bonus can't be achieved passively for 20+sec after casting 1skill like minor mending. In addition passive don't have additional effect like snare of SG.
2. Add reversed effect of 30% snare of SC - major speed buff for 1/2sec upon casting Aedric skill, increase duration of minor protection to 2/4sec. So this passive will be fully equal to its defensive passive from restoring light tree.
3. Change 1.5/3 minor protection into 1/2 major protection. So, it will have even less uptime but it will be strong buff that realistically will have more than 10% uptime only on build that utilize aedric spear spammable - jabs, which is channel and thus it will be nearly comparable to Deliberation passive. (sounds bit OP for spamming jabs but who knows what way zos taking)
In 2 and 3 passive will focus on benefit class spammable - Jabs, same like Sacred Ground focus on benefit its area of protection skills.


3. Light Weaver - passive that need complete overhaul because too conditional bonuses.
Its first bonus of increase Radiant Aura time is not needed as base skill got duration update last chapter making it without passive averagely same time as it was before with passive; and in addition it cost zero mana so duration wont affect sustain as you can spam it as much as you want without hurting sustain.
It 2nd bonus of granting 2 ult upon use Healing Ritual has to wide effectiveness - zero effect for anyone who is not using this particular skill, low effectiveness coz hp threshold of proc and too big effectiveness in hard fight when caster can generate like 14 ult per cast.
3rd bonus is too conditional too - you gain zero benefit if you don't use this tree ultimate, and proc attached to channel nature of ult that by itself sould be overhauled.
Overall passive attached to the most situative skills and in majority of builds this passive simply won't be active.

and Master Ritualist - another passive should get full rebalance as this is passive that unlike every other class passive ingame don't have serious benefit for class in combat nor outside of combat, no matter if you do pve/pvp/rp. If count its effectiveness by "uptime", i.e. duration of resurrecting beam - it will be like 0.X% uptime.

So, here is couple ideas:
1. Change one of the passives, for example Master Ritualist, to be templar version of Icy Aura - reduce effectiveness of defile effects on you for X%. Since getting overhaul to make 2 usefull defensive passives might boost healing role too much in pve, there could be done same what was implemented for wardens and later used for redguards to grant them smth good but not overbuff them - one of the overhauled passives could be very conditional and work only in pvp aspect of game. Defile reduction will be useless mostly in pve and in pvp it will take into account that entire templar defense is healing that can be negated just by 1 debuff. Such effect wont be active by itself but as soon as meet defile it will work as additional healing modifier under this debuff.
2. Another passive - Light Weaver, should stop being that skill-conditional. It can loose all its conditional bonuses but take one of it and turn it into full reliable bonus. Since duration of Radiant Aura is pointless effect - it can be taken ult gain or ult proc effects:
A: change it 2ult by using Healing Ritual under 60%hp into grant 2 ult to caster when healed by any Restoring Tree direct heal/hot while under 75%hp, with 1sec cooldown, i.e. smth like effect similar to warden Nature's Gift.
B: or take other effect and change granting Armor when channel Rite of Passage into granting same amount of 16500 Armor/major buff for Xsec after activating any ultimate skill. So it will be more inline with how dk Battle Roar performs.
3. Or just change one of the passives to be defensive versions of its offensive counterparts like Piercing Spear - since we lost boost to critical healing by this passive it should be regain as passive bonus for one of the restoring tree passives. And since PS passive double but one of the effects is affect pvp only - maybe combine 10% crit healing boost with other pvp-only effect, maybe even reduction of defile effect from above or "increase your healing for 10% when you under defile debuff".


Aedric Spear skill line:
It has potential to be one of the most unique classes skill tree because this skill tree is smth like "holy" imitation on spears weapon line when majority of skills is creating glowing spear in our hands; and skills like Piercing Javelin being direct copy as ordinary spear abilities of npcs. It understandable that this skillline is offensive tanking line but why not mix it with this feeling of having unique weapon line incorporated into class line that will make it automatically one of the most unique lines?
Could be done by swapping one of the passives - Burning Light or Balanced Warrior into smth like - allow all Aedric Spear skills to proc weapon enchants and granting 20% of proc poisons and increase effectiveness of weapon enchant/poison by X%. Smth like Torug set bonus


Jabs:
Its 6 width area that means 3m left and right from cross is not enough in strafe because of how many calculations per 1second this skill takes. And this even outside of lags it land terribly and with lags its pretty large area is de facto much lower coz game unable to calculate properly area of landing jabs nor with width nor length. Causing stuff like this to be common:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-LMQWXLhs
However not sure that increasing width area would be right approach, is it only transform spammable into huge aoe.

Another annoying thing is heal of Puncturing Sweep - it doesn't have big heal but also don't have cap that turn skill into 1 button spam in pve coz when you face horde of npcs - hitting them with just this 1 skill literally grant you god mode. And unlike Inhale it not follow rule that aoe deal 100%damage of standard aoe and 50%vampire heal from it or 50%damage of standard aoe with 100%vampire heal. However downside of this is making heal terribly in any scenario where you don't grind uncapped amount of low-armored trash npc.
Maybe treat this morph clother to other comparable skill of tanking skill line - necro Hungry Scythe? Maybe if not swap heal based on damage done for moderate heal(however for Scythe and Devouring Swarm moderate heal works great) but at least increase % of heal with capping heal on 6 total targets like Scythe does? Those 2 skill already have common things in heal conditions - scythe heal more for first enemy hit while not having damage increase for closest target, while jabs have closest-target increase and since heal scale of damage - first enemy hitted heal more too.
Just to lower total ceiling of heal while increase average floor of heal, or whatever zos called their goals. To make Puncturing Seep less brainless spam button for grinding and more effective skill in trials or pvp content.

Radial Sweep - we know that faster dots means more server calculations and lags and bla-bla and thus their frequency was lowered from 1sec to 2sec, but this should be applied to skills only that can be spammed and not to ultimate abilities that have pretty solid time limits, with their role to be strong burst or bursty-DoT abilities. And thus Radial Sweep DoT(even tho it direct damage attack) should tick every 1second instead of every 2second, making total dot duration to 3sec not 6. It will place it in line with other ultimate abilities that has DoT ticking with 1sec frequency not 2. It will make it better fill role of ultimate ability to be bursty. On side it will make Empower for Empowering Sweep twice shorter but this effect attached to ult is bad by itself while high frequency will make ult more bursty too (from 18sec to 9).
P.S.: it entire situation is wrong with granting Empowering Sweep such bonuses. Since it seems zos will never do at least 1 morpg of Nova to be proper pvp ult for everyone who is not ball-groups, they could make at least Radial Sweep to be our high-offensive ult: for example take it scaling from Incap and add dot scaling from Empowering Sweep, and as result we would have cheap ult but when you use it from 120+ult points it gain ability to scale its DoT/CC, making it at the same time expensive ult but that can deal high damage against large amount of enemies, like Leap or DB or Soul Siphon or Perma and being viable not for zergs only like current Nova.
P.S.S.: its bug of missing enemies inside aoe is still here so now it can miss inside 8meters instead of 6

P.S.: even adds have portable healing aura like this:

Why not transform Cleansing Ritual or Healing Ritual or Rite of Passage into same portable AoE HoT.
Btw for Xivkyns Lacerators this mobile HoT skill counts same as their other skill - npc version of old Remembrance that they channel and grant mitigation to all npcs in radius - as npc ultimate ability. So, this is literally improved Rite of Passage incorporated for npc

you're amazing Cinbri

thank you for the time spent testing and this full feedback

Joy_Division

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

I have no idea how you are getting nearly 50 PS in a minute. When I weave as tight as possible with no delay between LA and PS and (LA animation is basically invisible) I can get around 160 strikes in a minute, which is only 40.

Is there a trick to it I am unaware of?

@danno8

Yes, there is a trick to it. The interaction with channeled cast times and global cooldowns and light attack weaving works differently than traditional skills. With every normal ability in the game, you can do exactly as ZOS's loading screen says and press a light attack in-between abilities, and you'll get perfect weaving with abilities firing every second.

With Channels, it seems that if you do not weave an ability between 0.5 and 0.9 seconds after casting it, you get a longer-slower animation of about 1.5 seconds (even though the ability only takes 1 second) and I think the "post 200 ms cooldown" ZOS claimed to remove is added on (I'm not sure if it's this particular cooldown, but there is definitely a delay of some sort that is incurred if you miss that 0.5-0.9 second window).

Basically, you must be much more focused and meticulousness to get the proper cast-time and cooldown with templar channels than you do with the other classes. You aren't rewarded for executing this skillfully, rather you must be skillful in order to get the skills to function according to their tooltip. So if you're not used to playing a templar (such as it being an "alt"), the transition to playing one is more difficult than the other classes because it requires a different approach to timing and combat.

What it amounts to is that if your idea of "playing" ESO is to sit in front of a target dummy and enjoy an instance with near perfect latency, you might be able to usually get the skill to act correctly. If you don't have good latency (such as playing from Australia, PvPing, or your machine has trouble handing Trials that have a lot going on), the timing is too precise and you're pretty much screwed. Also, if you play content where human opponents or PvE mechanics are disruptive to DPS parse rotations, you're also then not going to be able to get the proper 1 second cast down at any rate of consistency.

I'm making a video of this that will elaborate.

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

OK, for me I guess:

I don't have a lot of burst with my melee ranged magplar so I have to rely on trying to hit the opponents with as many dots as possible. But I have to deal with opponents who do have burst and mobility, and so it becomes difficult to stay alive in melee range. If Templars are meant to kill slowly, I'm going to need more protection. If I can't get more protection, give me more burst.

So a couple of people's posts in this thread have helped. So expanding on my previous comment on what I need:

#1. Protection - Extend the spear wall passive to six seconds. That way it can also match the duration of Sun Shield.

#2. Power - Either more upfront damage or faster ticks on the DoT for Radial Sweep.

#3. Debuffs - Dawn's Wrath skills and passives should offer more;

Solar Barrage is meant for melee range play primarily for MagPlars (I've heard) so if it can't offer magic buffs it should debuff the opponents more. How about minor maim to opponents in my AoE? I think this makes more sense than empower for melee ranged Templars.

Purifying Light is good just as a support tool but it doesn't do quite enough for me, the caster. How about giving magplars access to minor breach here? Whenever PL is on people, they're not too concerned about it, I think. But if it could add the debuff of minor breach, the intimidation level would skyrocket.

These three things would help me out a ton in melee range. I think I would actually feel on par with MagSorcs for once.