[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Neoauspex

ecru wrote: »

Tbh a lot of what you're saying doesn't make much sense at all (an ability usable every 4 gcds is better than one with no conditions because it has a slightly higher tooltip? What?) so I think we're done here.

Dude, burst is king in PvP. Unless you're in a zerg

Minno

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr.

magsorcs and DKs would like to challenge that assessment of jabs lol.

I got a 20k tooltip on whip with seething fury up and I'm not running any damage sets

That is partly why i mentioned it lol. The other reason being, catch yourself in talons, and jabs now does 15% less dmg all while you sitting there taking 20k whips lol.

Templar looks great on paper, bad in application once you realize the class has been balanced around healbot.

There are a lot of ways to get maimed, and spamming molten whip will get you nowhere since you can only use that big whip every 4th gcd. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see how an ability that hits hard every 4th gcd is comparable to a spammable ability with no prereqs. Magsorcs don't have a spammable either, so I don't understand why you brought them up. If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Because jabs, on paper, hits like a truck. Till you come across classes that can:
1) outheal your jabs after mitigation (DK)
2) have superior mobility with ranged burst(Sorc)
3) can root you in place while they LOS around you and clip you with non-channel attacks (DK+Sorc)
4) can dodge roll to the side and outside the jabs range. You might do one tick of damage, but you avoid the snare and potential burning light procs (stam toons)

The list goes on and on. Yes its a strong ability, but doesnt mean templar takes a nerf to something like dark flare or doesn't get its defense looked into because sorc/DK/NB are still functionally miles ahead of templar.

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability. All abilites are mitigated based on their initial tooltip damage, nearly all can be dodge rolled, and healing works the same against jabs as any other ability. The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare, which is effectively a short root when it comes to positioning yourself against your opponent(s).

Suggesting jabs can be "outhealed after mitigation" isn't any different than saying anything else can be outhealed after mitigation.. Yes, heals replenish someone's health bar after they're damage, and unless jabs somehow provides your opponents with more healing than they would have otherwise, it's.. the same as anything else.

I dueled a stamplar earlier who was executing jabs with an average tick of 1200, and a high of 1800 through a minimum of 30k resists and 2800 impen. His wd was around 5k, and he was using trap so you can include minor force in there too. 1200x4 + light attack is pretty difficult to heal through (that's about 6k damage if you're counting, basically a dawnbreaker), especially when it's coming through every ~1.15s. That isn't including any other procs, dot ticks, burning light, etc. I don't know anyone who can easily outheal that who isn't an actual healer.

1) jabs root is dodgable. If you dodge the last hit, youll still take dmg, but ognore the snare.
2) jabs has less tooltip than whip WITHOUT the light attack you mention. Other benefits of instant cast abilities are that they can be used during block, dont have a weird post GCD weirdness, and are generally larger toolips.
3) reason i say jabs is outhealed, because while you are in a channel, you can't follow up faster with burst. If you dodge cancel vigor, not only will you avoid 2-3 hits of jabs, but that one 1200 hit will have to fight with a 18k vigor tooltip. Even rapid regen is like 600-1200 pending on if it crits.
4) LOL at your fight with a stamplar. He had a 1.9 modifer on your 0.48 resist. 4k times 1.42 = 5680 or 1738 after mit.
You need a better build or to embrace moving to avoid as many of those hits as possible.

Jabs having a lower tooltip than a molten whip that takes three GCDs to buff has absolutely nothing to do with anything because the two abilities are not in any way comparable. One is a spammable ability, the other (to get that tooltip) is only usable every fourth gcd. I don't know why you keep bringing this up. A nightblade bow proc also does a lot of damage, should we compare that to jabs too? What about blastbones, which is usable at most every third gcd?

"You need a better build". I have 30k base resists, over 36k with blood spawn. If your suggestion is that jabs doesn't hit hard when you get over uh.. 36k? I guess 40-45k is what you're suggesting? Then yeah, you'd be right, but every other ability is mitigated by those resists too so I'm having a hard time grasping what your actual point here is.

Tbh a lot of what you're saying doesn't make much sense at all (an ability usable every 4 gcds is better than one with no conditions because it has a slightly higher tooltip? What? lmao) so I think we're done here.

IDK man. Guess we play different areas of the game. That 21k possible tooltip that's already being used every 3 times, sounds more spamable than you are implying (especially comparing it to NB relentless when it should be compared to SA or jabs). Maybe i misread the PTS forums too, but I swore I saw DKs say they were excited because it was easy to stack up the dmg boost easily.

But go ahead, you do you and roll 2800 CR + 30k resists against a pressure based bleed build and thing jabs is a huge buff lol.

ecru

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr.

magsorcs and DKs would like to challenge that assessment of jabs lol.

I got a 20k tooltip on whip with seething fury up and I'm not running any damage sets

That is partly why i mentioned it lol. The other reason being, catch yourself in talons, and jabs now does 15% less dmg all while you sitting there taking 20k whips lol.

Templar looks great on paper, bad in application once you realize the class has been balanced around healbot.

There are a lot of ways to get maimed, and spamming molten whip will get you nowhere since you can only use that big whip every 4th gcd. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see how an ability that hits hard every 4th gcd is comparable to a spammable ability with no prereqs. Magsorcs don't have a spammable either, so I don't understand why you brought them up. If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Because jabs, on paper, hits like a truck. Till you come across classes that can:
1) outheal your jabs after mitigation (DK)
2) have superior mobility with ranged burst(Sorc)
3) can root you in place while they LOS around you and clip you with non-channel attacks (DK+Sorc)
4) can dodge roll to the side and outside the jabs range. You might do one tick of damage, but you avoid the snare and potential burning light procs (stam toons)

The list goes on and on. Yes its a strong ability, but doesnt mean templar takes a nerf to something like dark flare or doesn't get its defense looked into because sorc/DK/NB are still functionally miles ahead of templar.

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability. All abilites are mitigated based on their initial tooltip damage, nearly all can be dodge rolled, and healing works the same against jabs as any other ability. The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare, which is effectively a short root when it comes to positioning yourself against your opponent(s).

Suggesting jabs can be "outhealed after mitigation" isn't any different than saying anything else can be outhealed after mitigation.. Yes, heals replenish someone's health bar after they're damage, and unless jabs somehow provides your opponents with more healing than they would have otherwise, it's.. the same as anything else.

I dueled a stamplar earlier who was executing jabs with an average tick of 1200, and a high of 1800 through a minimum of 30k resists and 2800 impen. His wd was around 5k, and he was using trap so you can include minor force in there too. 1200x4 + light attack is pretty difficult to heal through (that's about 6k damage if you're counting, basically a dawnbreaker), especially when it's coming through every ~1.15s. That isn't including any other procs, dot ticks, burning light, etc. I don't know anyone who can easily outheal that who isn't an actual healer.

1) jabs root is dodgable. If you dodge the last hit, youll still take dmg, but ognore the snare.
2) jabs has less tooltip than whip WITHOUT the light attack you mention. Other benefits of instant cast abilities are that they can be used during block, dont have a weird post GCD weirdness, and are generally larger toolips.
3) reason i say jabs is outhealed, because while you are in a channel, you can't follow up faster with burst. If you dodge cancel vigor, not only will you avoid 2-3 hits of jabs, but that one 1200 hit will have to fight with a 18k vigor tooltip. Even rapid regen is like 600-1200 pending on if it crits.
4) LOL at your fight with a stamplar. He had a 1.9 modifer on your 0.48 resist. 4k times 1.42 = 5680 or 1738 after mit.
You need a better build or to embrace moving to avoid as many of those hits as possible.

Jabs having a lower tooltip than a molten whip that takes three GCDs to buff has absolutely nothing to do with anything because the two abilities are not in any way comparable. One is a spammable ability, the other (to get that tooltip) is only usable every fourth gcd. I don't know why you keep bringing this up. A nightblade bow proc also does a lot of damage, should we compare that to jabs too? What about blastbones, which is usable at most every third gcd?

"You need a better build". I have 30k base resists, over 36k with blood spawn. If your suggestion is that jabs doesn't hit hard when you get over uh.. 36k? I guess 40-45k is what you're suggesting? Then yeah, you'd be right, but every other ability is mitigated by those resists too so I'm having a hard time grasping what your actual point here is.

Tbh a lot of what you're saying doesn't make much sense at all (an ability usable every 4 gcds is better than one with no conditions because it has a slightly higher tooltip? What? lmao) so I think we're done here.

IDK man. Guess we play different areas of the game. That 21k possible tooltip that's already being used every 3 times, sounds more spamable than you are implying (especially comparing it to NB relentless when it should be compared to SA or jabs). Maybe i misread the PTS forums too, but I swore I saw DKs say they were excited because it was easy to stack up the dmg boost easily.

But go ahead, you do you and roll 2800 CR + 30k resists against a pressure based bleed build and thing jabs is a huge buff lol.

The 20k+ whip tooltips are with three stacks, not base. That's why people are getting hit for 6-8k with whips now. If the tooltip was double that (after a 100% increase) we'd be hearing a lot more about it. Base damage on a whip is around 10k.

FWIW I was actually able to get over a 20k tooltip (over 5k per tick) on jabs with a stamina build in the build creator, so it's absolutely possible for jabs to hit as hard as a whip does every 4 gcds.. which is why I'm saying it's a very, very good ability, lol.

usmcjdking

@Joy_Division

The change to DOTs and the instances of their damage being done has been a tremendous boost in the effectiveness of purify.

There is still the issue of debuff saturation, but that simple change has been really nice from a Templar POV.

StarOfElyon

Radiant Aura doesn't seem to be returning magicka enough. I only recently started using it since I decided to swap out one regen enchant for additional - and needed - damage. Here's what I was doing in BG:

I would get in range of opponents and cast RA, and then I'd drop spear shards and cast Solar Barrage. Then I'd start fighting or healing - depends. My teammates would be fighting as well. And I was watching my magicka bar and it seemed like I was not getting any additional magicka regen. I thought with my AOE ticking that would be a sure way to keep the magicka return up but it doesn't seem to be that effective. But I actually ran out of magicka a few times and when I waited for my magicka to restore some, I noticed that it seemed unaffected by the magicka steal on my opponents even as my team fought. I wonder if I'm alone in this.

I'll give it another night of testing. By the way, I'm on Xbox one NA. Not using the version of RA on pc now.

StarOfElyon

Also, we need more mobility to keep up with these dang sorcs. How can they be so fast and so powerful? It's insane.

danno8

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Radiant Aura doesn't seem to be returning magicka enough. I only recently started using it since I decided to swap out one regen enchant for additional - and needed - damage. Here's what I was doing in BG:

I would get in range of opponents and cast RA, and then I'd drop spear shards and cast Solar Barrage. Then I'd start fighting or healing - depends. My teammates would be fighting as well. And I was watching my magicka bar and it seemed like I was not getting any additional magicka regen. I thought with my AOE ticking that would be a sure way to keep the magicka return up but it doesn't seem to be that effective. But I actually ran out of magicka a few times and when I waited for my magicka to restore some, I noticed that it seemed unaffected by the magicka steal on my opponents even as my team fought. I wonder if I'm alone in this.

I'll give it another night of testing. By the way, I'm on Xbox one NA. Not using the version of RA on pc now.

You can only get the magicka return once per second, no matter how many opponents you hit with the skill, or have the debuff. It has always been that way.

StarOfElyon

I know. I'm not seeing a big difference. Is it true that you receive 300 per enemy or is it just a flat 300 a second?

danno8

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I know. I'm not seeing a big difference. Is it true that you receive 300 per enemy or is it just a flat 300 a second?

It is a flat per second return, regardless of how many enemies have the debuff and are getting hit while they have it. The maximum you can currently get with how the debuff works is 300/s no matter the situation.

It has always been this way. At least they got rid of the cost though. It was decidedly worse than Elemental Drain before, but now it's....well, better when large amounts of enemies are around. Probably still worse in every other situation though.

StarOfElyon

I was misinformed then.

UppGRAYxDD

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr.

Where are you getting the 30% dmg buff? I must of not caught that change in the patches, but are referring to the global cooldown -200ms and the -100ms speed changes to jabs/sweeps? I might be wrong, but do global cooldowns affect channels? And per the dark flare nerf, I was only urked due to the fact that the change kills another templar gamplay style which was hardly used anyway. I just dont like when ZoS pushes homogenization of classes all the while proclaiming "play as you want"... Im just stoked to actually be able to use toppling charge again and having my burning light procs connect!

Joy_Division

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

BNOC

Well.. guess that's that conversation over.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

thank you for this Joy. Didn't want to do the parse for counter argument.

UppGRAYxDD

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

lmao...I didnt understand the whole "it got a 30% dmg buff" the whole time. You know as good as anyone @Minno , If Templars ever caught a buff that big the forums would spontaneously explode with all the regular comments" Healer class shouldn't be able to dps", "Can just waive their hand all day and have all the dmg in the world", etc., etc...

For my own knowledge tho, channeled abilities aren't affected by GCD while in the channel..just between casts right?

Minno

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

lmao...I didnt understand the whole "it got a 30% dmg buff" the whole time. You know as good as anyone @Minno , If Templars ever caught a buff that big the forums would spontaneously explode with all the regular comments" Healer class shouldn't be able to dps", "Can just waive their hand all day and have all the dmg in the world", etc., etc...

For my own knowledge tho, channeled abilities aren't affected by GCD while in the channel..just between casts right?

the benefit of channels are:
- get multiple instances of hits in one GCD applied attack (commonly known as "GCD Ignoring".)
- can potentially gain regen during the channel, since you arent block canceling an instant cast attack which can turn off your stam regen.
- mostly are DOTs, which help break block resources and are generally undodgable. If not a dot, they have debuffs that counter the cast time.

The downsides are listed by Joy:
- can't AC easily, weird clunky post GCD issues
- easily evaded by 2k cost dodge roll
- dmg is now lower across the board, at least compared to instant cast ability tooltips (even worse when you start addiung mechanics/passives.
- gives an extra snare that cannot be removed.

Jabbs_Giggity

Not sure how this didn't get "Audited" during the patch notes for redundancy in class skills, and I know it has been mentioned an exponential amount of times...but can someone (as many of us as possible) bombard ZOS employees and the forums for potential to change the way our healing skills work?

Specifically Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual. Both skills are instant cast heals. Why have two instant cast heals?! Not to mention Rushed Ceremony is 4590 Magicka and Healing Ritual is 7290 Magicka.

Rushed Ceremony should cost 3200 Magicka MAX. This skill should also be broken down for Morphs as HTD = Self Heal ONLY - does not target any one else! BoL should heal TWO targets at EQUAL amounts. Further, one of the heals should always target the lowest health ally.

Healing Ritual cost should match Regeneration (Resto Staff) at 2160 Magicka and be changed to a HoT. Cleansing Ritual should be updated to a new secondary effect than a HoT (even though ZO$ just buffed this HoT).

Just my .02

Jabbs_Giggity

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Not sure how this didn't get "Audited" during the patch notes for redundancy in class skills, and I know it has been mentioned an exponential amount of times...but can someone (as many of us as possible) bombard ZOS employees and the forums for potential to change the way our healing skills work?

Specifically Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual. Both skills are instant cast heals. Why have two instant cast heals?! Not to mention Rushed Ceremony is 4590 Magicka and Healing Ritual is 7290 Magicka.

Rushed Ceremony should cost 3200 Magicka MAX. This skill should also be broken down for Morphs as HTD = Self Heal ONLY - does not target any one else! BoL should heal TWO targets at EQUAL amounts. Further, one of the heals should always target the lowest health ally.

Healing Ritual cost should match Regeneration (Resto Staff) at 2160 Magicka and be changed to a HoT. Cleansing Ritual should be updated to a new secondary effect than a HoT (even though ZO$ just buffed this HoT).

Just my .02

Just to be more conclusive...
HTD/BoL base heal is 1237 health at 4590 Magicka
Sorcerer's Twilight is a 1671 heal at "free cast" or base cost of 3603 Magicka (Plus it heals TWO targets) AND does shock damage.
DK Dragon Blood heals for 33% of Health (25K x .33 = 8250 health) for 4320 Magicka -OR- 795 + up to 33% based on missing health (not doing the math)
NB has so many healing options, but Cloak now heals for how much? Plus gives you minor protection
Warden Healing Seed heals for 1232 health for 2431 Magicka and Fungal Growth heals for 821 health for 4591 Magicka + Intellect and Endurance....

Just saying...

Neoauspex

@Jabbs_Giggity here are my ideas to make healing ritual great ag... uh, ever:

Heal over time, Zosplar style - Replace all current buffs with golden sparkly lights of healing over time, each of them healing you for 1k health every second for 2 seconds. You cannot use any other buffs again until you are out of combat. Morph A: You will be considered out of combat if you are not in combat. Morph B: Increases the duration to 2.9 seconds.

Mobility, Zosplar style - Transform yourself into pure energy and flash straight up in the air, stunning enemies that are floating above you. Morph A: Decrease fall damage by 10%. Morph B: Increase fall damage by 10%

Proactive Defense, Zosplar style - Sun Shield

NBrookus

Templar ceased to be the best healing class a while back, yet the illusion remains. The class still had purifying ritual for great group utility, but Renewing Undeath purges 3 effects without needing a synergy AND heals for a lot more.

Jabbs_Giggity

NBrookus wrote: »

Templar ceased to be the best healing class a while back, yet the illusion remains. The class still had purifying ritual for great group utility, but Renewing Undeath purges 3 effects without needing a synergy AND heals for a lot more.

I am more than aware...The problem is in forums and ingame there are so many people where their only comeback to a Templar is "Well, you have cleanse...soo..." And I sit there scratching my head like..."You know that the 6 DoTs you just slammed on me are immediately reapplied faster than I can cleanse them and still at less cost to you combined than my one cleanse, mind you that doesn't prioritize which negative effect should actually be purged first..."

Or they'll say, "Well, you spam BoL! That's not fair!" and my rebuttle is always the same..."I have no defense...I have to use BoL/HtD to stay alive...at least you can go on offense while turtling or healing up..."

However, I have found the running O-Surge set in BG's is really pissing off the META's!! Ehm Ehm...Pet Sorc B i t c h e s...

Koolio

@Joy_Division


Hey just curious if Honor The Dead is still broken with mist form.

Haven’t played in a minute and I’m console.

maxjapank

I gave up when Dark Flare was greatly defended in another thread before patch. And in response to someone else in this thread after patch, they were told not to worry about Dark Flare’s nerf because Sweeps got buffed. Don’t feed the troll.

ecru

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Solinur wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

@whoeverlistens @allofZoS @thenumbskullsincharge ,

37% nerf to dark flare damage is absolutely ludicrous if the determining factor is " well you can cast is faster by 1/11th"...
Who ever thought that this explanation and reasoning was sufficient enough to drop the mega nerf hammer, THEY NEED SOME SENSE SLAPPED IN THEM.

I understand nerfs that lead to balance, but this one is just stupid and plainly insulting to every person in this thread or who have TRIED TO HELP YOU ZOS FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THINGS.

I generally try to be a positive person and refrain from griping on here, but where did you come up with the idea that dark flare needed a nerf? It wasn't from the forums, It wasn't from ingame PvP complaints( hardly see any dark flares in Cyrodil ever, maybe once in 6-8hrs of play), and I know that it wasn't from the PvE peeps (NO ONE USES DARK FLARE IN PVE COMPETIVELY).

So, WHERE DID THIS START? WHY? MAKES ZERO SENSE...

Dont feed me this BS "oh you can cast it faster". If this was the intended train of thought, then nerf it by 1/11th!!!

Absolutely disgusted with the direction and overall action by the devs and team at ZoS.

Edited to add a cute sad cat so @ZOS_GinaBruno will maybe put a bug in someones ear...

They also removed the 200ms time after channeled and cast time abilities, so effectively it should be 3/13th of the total cast time removed. Still a nerf but not as big as you make it out to be.

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

Bruh.....37% nerf...37...

Puncturing strikes got a 30% buff and is now the best spammable ability in the game. It's literally 30% faster now. Stop worrying about dark flare and embrace the gigantic buff you got, which probably wasn't even intended. Not only does it now do great damage in a much shorter period of time, both morphs apply a ridiculous snare and either a major buff or heal the templar. I think an ability on a 1s channel with a tooltip as big as dawnbreaker which also snares and either buffs or heals me is pretty good, lol.

Compare the tooltip on your puncturing sweep/jabs with a necro's blastbones (which can only be casted a minimum of every third gcd) or warden's shalks and tell me how bad templars have it in Elsweyr...

...If you're trying to suggest sweep/jabs isn't a good ability, you just need to look at the huge tooltip damage and realize that it now takes 1 second instead of 1.3 seconds to use. Or just go hit a dummy with it. I'm able to weave it nearly as fast as an ability with no channel, and it has nearly double the tooltip of force pulse.

Stop right now, go to a target dummy, and do as you claim here and you will see that you are wrong. Or, since I suspect you don;t even have a templar, don't: I did it for you.



One minute of Sweeps. 124 hits. Divided by 4 = 31. 31 total sweeps in one minute. Guess what? Takes longer than 1 second to use.



One minute of elemental Drain. 51 hits in one minute. Takes about one second (the other GCDs were for Ele drain and Focus).

So, yes, we're going to keep worrying about Dark Flare and all of the other nerfed/bugged/clunky skills because we were sold something ZOS hasn;t delivered yet. It is the *worst* spammable in the game. Do you not know how much light attacks have been buffed and how many templars miss out (specially annoying now that they are easily empowered)? If it's so good, why don't PvE DPS use Sweeps instead of taking 10 hours of their life and grinding psijiic Elemental Weapon?

And I don;t know why you keep referencing tooltips as if they are comparable to other class spammables when they aren;t since other classes cast theirs faster. And even if they were the same speed, the other classes have instant casts which hit with 100% value from that tooltip whereas a mobile opponent can and will avoid a percentage of the jabs a tempalr throws. And something else: tell me, what other class spammable is subject to 25% mitigation from Evasion? What's that, none? Every stamina player and NB who knows what they are doing that you come across is going to have something akin to major protection against your spammable.

ecru wrote:

I don't understand how this makes jabs any different than any other ability.

Clearly.

ecru wrote:

The point you make with the root is kind of weak considering jabs on it's own has a 70% snare

Now you're just announcing to the world that you have never for any length of time seriously tried to play a magplar. Nobody likes getting rooted, but at least the other classes can still fight with their spammable at 100% effectiveness because ESO engine auto-aims (and hits) instant casts (even if the target is to the side) whereas a templar gets that annoying whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh sound of 4 misses. You think you're going to hit someone on that 4th hit that has a snare? Good luck. What are you going to do if they are a competent player who keeps up their Forward Momentum / snare immunity?
It's totally a lot of fun playing a class whose spammable gets countered by common buffs like Evasion and Snare immunity.

And you're missing the biggest advantage instant casts have compared to channels. Instant casts can be block casted, so other classes have the option to turtle and still attack at the same time.

The fact of the matter is if Templars had this awesome spammable that got "ridiculously buffed" as you claimed, then it would be an appealing class to play. That I hardly run into templars who aren't healbots and support builds tells me either you're right and everyone who actually plays the class is wrong or you're not seeing the whole picture. Considering you think Jabs was buffed by 30% and are claiming that even with weaving it takes one second to cast when that is absolutely wrong, I think it's safe to say you aren't considering the entire picture.

31 puncturing strikes in one minute isn't anywhere close to an accurate representation of how the ability works.



I'm weaving sweep nearly as fast as you are ele weapon.

But for argument's sake, if you're a very mediocre player and can't weave sweep/jabs, let's agree that it takes 1.5 seconds to use, and compare it to necro's blastbones and warden's shalks, which has the same tooltip. What do we get? We get a spammable ability which does the same amount of damage as blastbones or shalks in half the time. So I guess jabs/sweep is only twice as good as those two abilities if you're not very good at weaving the ability yet.

I do have a templar btw, I just don't play her very often.

edit: as far as sweep vs ele weapon, that's a good question, but I think the answer is sustain. Liko's magplar parse was already over 1700mag/sec with parse food (ghastly eye bowl), so I suspect it would be very difficult to sustain.

edit:





After some practice (like .. 15 minutes), the ability can be weaved nearly as fast as ele weapon.

Ysbriel

1) Light effect on character needs to be brighter .
2) dark flare cast time makes it feel like it takes forever to launch.

StarOfElyon

I suggest we rename Honor the Dead to Prolonging the Inevitable.

StarOfElyon

Did I forget to mention today how powerful and fast sorcs are?

If I don't equip Total Dark against them I have ZERO shot to win. Even then they're dancing circles around me, hiding behind pets, hitting faster and harder than me, and streaking out of harms way when I get them in execute range. I'm insanely outclassed by them.

technohic

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Did I forget to mention today how powerful and fast sorcs are?

If I don't equip Total Dark against them I have ZERO shot to win. Even then they're dancing circles around me, hiding behind pets, hitting faster and harder than me, and streaking out of harms way when I get them in execute range. I'm insanely outclassed by them.

Get in LOS in a tight area if you can and purge often. Their mobility is chunk so tight turns and small areas restrain them a lot. LOS makes it harder for them to line up their delayed burst combo, and so does ER getting rid of their curse which also buffs their pet damage.

It's still an uphill battle against good ones but you can at least not make it easy for them.

Neoauspex

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Did I forget to mention today how powerful and fast sorcs are?

If I don't equip Total Dark against them I have ZERO shot to win. Even then they're dancing circles around me, hiding behind pets, hitting faster and harder than me, and streaking out of harms way when I get them in execute range. I'm insanely outclassed by them.

I know you play mostly Battlegrounds, but here's my strategy when I encounter a really good pet sorc in Cyrodiil:

1. Use total dark or defensive posture to not die.
2. Apply pressure to get them to start kiting.
3. Make them kite really really far away.
4. Once you're in the middle of nowhere, intentionally let them kill you and port back to an interesting battle, leaving them stranded in the middle of nowhere with all their damn pets.

Sand_Traven

Assuming top two pain points with Templars are still the point of this thread, I'll post mine. They're not technical problems, since the mechanics of abilities and such are not my area of expertise but they're more flavour-based. Both refer to the spirit of what was, to my eyes, promised of this class and the elements of this promise which have, over time, been supplanted by the Dragonknight.

1) This class, to my knowledge, was supposed to be that of the holy warrior, donned in heavy armour. Heavy armour in this game is geared towards tanking. The skillset of a Templar is, from what I've gleaned when asking about this for my own toon-building, possibly the least suited to this sort of gameplay. None of the Templar's skills give an advantage to tanking that other classes' skills do not supersede. What the Templar seems good at, by popular consensus, is healing; but why call it Templar? The Knight Templar, historically, were warriors who protected pilgrims. While they might've had some among their order who could care for the sick and wounded, an association with healthcare would be more attributable to other knightly orders such as the Knights Hospitaller or the Order of St Lazarus. The name "Templar" is misleading, as none of the USP of this class has anything to do with the Templars.

2) My second pain point ties into the first, but is specific enough to warrant its own point. Having ascertained that Templars in ESO have nothing to do with Templars IRL, we can look at what they're supposed to be in The Elder Scrolls. Am I right in thinking they're supposed to be specialists in combating daedra and undead? If so, where are the bonuses to this? Such a thing exists with a passive in the Fighters' Guild skillset, but the Templar receives no such bonus. In fact, the Dragonknight is far more suited to this task than the Templar. Vampires are weak to fire. On which class does virtually every class skill deliver fire damage? Which class receives large passive bonuses to fire damage? The Dragonknight. Werewolves are weak to poison. On which class are the morphs geared towards the delivery of poison damage and status effects? Which class receives passive bonuses to poison damage? The Dragonknight. The Templar does not even have any class-exclusive poison abilities, unless I've missed something. So what is supposed to be the very purpose of the Templar is a role filled far better by the Dragonknight.