[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Jabbs_Giggity

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Mitaka211

sandelius wrote: »

Stamplar has been/is my fav class from start but it really feels like it’s fading away 😔

I slowly started to level a dk and a warden for that reason . Every time i remember how much stuff i have to unlock makes me want to delete the game. I really like how necromancer is looking , might save my energy for him. My stamplar is my first character with the name i used in all mmos i've played. Really sucks tbh.
I am curious , has anyone tried the 2h changes on PTS. How does cleave morphs feel , possible to implement in a stamplar pvp build instead of dizzy swing?

Firstmep

Mitaka211 wrote: »

sandelius wrote: »

Stamplar has been/is my fav class from start but it really feels like it’s fading away 😔

I slowly started to level a dk and a warden for that reason . Every time i remember how much stuff i have to unlock makes me want to delete the game. I really like how necromancer is looking , might save my energy for him. My stamplar is my first character with the name i used in all mmos i've played. Really sucks tbh.
I am curious , has anyone tried the 2h changes on PTS. How does cleave morphs feel , possible to implement in a stamplar pvp build instead of dizzy swing?

Cleave does a fair bit more damage, especially the bleed on Carve. Sadly the crap range makes it kinda hard to land outside of packed areas.

The original 4 classes in the game were made before stamina was a thing and it shows on stamplar/stamsorc/dk the most.

Just looking at warden skills, or even necro now, its clear that both their active and passive abilities were created with stamina in mind as well.

Stamplar has an entire skill-line, Dawns Wrath, that has only 1 useful morph for us, and even that is highly situational.

Im not aganist stam relying more on weapon skills but not to this extent. For the original healing class in the game, stamplars having the worst self healing is kind of insane.

And for magplars, we simply have our damage spread out over too many skills, and with sun fire changes its only going to get worse.

In PvE this spread is fine, but in PvP, burst is king even with perfect weaving/anim canceling(if lag allows), it takes far longer for my damage to kick in than when i play my stamplar for example.

I have been using spell power pots forever now, just so i dont have to also cast entropy.

Add to that to the fact that our house is pitiful at this point, i think the biggest downturn was removing the stun from spear shards, i just cant justify putting it on my bar outside of bgs or bigger grp fights as i just cant give up any of my other skills for it.

That being said:

I understand that this patch is not the one to fix individual classes, clearly they are trying to create a framework for future reworks/additions/balance changes.

In all fairness i am hopeful, i have seen Gilliams handywork all over the 5.0 patchnotes and its clear that they are heading in a different direction than before.

I think Fengrush has summarised it pretty well on his stream last night: These guys are trying to fix a system that has been broken, running on fumes for the longes time. It will not happen overnight(or in 1 patch).

Jabbs_Giggity

I'm just going to come out and say it...this may not be the appropriate thread so I apologize @CheckMath in advance. However, I feel this directly relates to Templar's pain points currently.

If you have been able to use PTS and test the Necromancer class, feel free to give your opinion on the statments I am about to share.

Bone Tyrant
Goliath - Instant 30K HP with huge health sustain via LA/HA plus damage return -OR- AOE Bash (Good for PVE Tanks)
Death Scythe - pretty much Veiled Strike but heals you Not unique - stolen from NB
Bone Armor - Typical Major Ward/Resolve buff. Pulls in ranged targets. (Good for PVE Tanks) Not unique
Bitter Harvest - Similar function to Repentence but with Ultimate and HoT + Major Protection Not unique, stolen from Templar but better
Bone Totem - Similar to DK Ult Not unique
Grave Grasp - Similar to DK Talon and Sorc Encase Not unique
**Not even going to talk about Passives...But note if you slot Major Evasion with Bone Tyrant ability you have INSTANT 40% reduction of damage against Templar's Sweeps/Jabs, before your Major Protection kicks in!

Grave Lord
Frozen Colossus - AOE Ground Ult with Major Vulnerability. Already see this being abused in ball groups (PVP) paired with Permafrost. Whilst Templar's have no means of mobility or active defense while on defensive LOL
Flame Skull - basically a better version of Templar's Sun Fire, but with Stamina morph and Sorc's Frag proc 20% increased damgage with better reliability. Could have been reworked for Templar too
Blastbones - basically Warden's Scorch. Not unique
Boneyard - basically Warden's Sleet Storm Ult and Templar's Nova Ult combined in to one NON-ULT skill. Seriously...
Skeletal Mage - basically Nightblade's Shade Not unique
Shocking Syphon - Interesting DoT by using corpses with Stamina morph
***Passives include free casts of abilities, passive execute bonus, physical and spell penetraition bonus, and DoT damage increase

Living Death
Reanimate - Instant Ressurection of allies. Restore resources or do damage. I wonder how this will be abused in PVP...PVE trials will become so easy! One Healer to ruuuuule them all! PVP going downhill and Templar's obsolete healers both PVE and PVP
Render Flesh - Basically Templar's BoL at expense of minor defile to self.
Expunge - Templar's Cleansing Ritual exactly, but one morph gives you Repentance without needing dead bodies.
Life amid Death - Instant Heal + HoT and also can cleanse.
Spirit Mender - basically a Nightblade's Shade that heals you instead of damaging enemies Not unique, would have helped NB more with their healing sustain
Restoring Tether - Huge AOE burst heal or can use like Templar's Repentence but Stamina over Time. Could have reworked Repentence this way to help Stamplars with healing sustain
***Passives include increased healing for being debuffed, crit heals 100% at 50% health or lower, Ultimate generation, passive Magicka + Stamina recovery 300 for slotting an ability from skill line.

IMO - On paper, the Necro basically looks like ZOS took all ideas from all the Class Feedback threads and combined them into once Class behind a paywall instead of reworking classes to all be efficient for their purpose...

Joy_Division

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Because you play your templar as a PvE DPS.

This patch templar PvE DPS has been buffed. So from your gameplay perspective, templars feel fine

Joy_Division

What's up with the double posts lately?

Elsterchen

Anyone else experiencing the "weird LA animation"-bug on PTS?

Whenever I LA my char is throwing her arm so far to the back i fear she is falling over... in her axt-hand she almost looks as if she is trying to cut wood. + there is a delay in response of about half a sec (enough to get noticed and annoyingly interfering with weaving).

Soooo, testing is really not possible this way...

tinythinker

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Templars kicked ass 1.5; Templars were godlike 1.6 due to Jesus Beam, actually i'd say up until 2016 or IC release where they broke them. Not even talking about IC release where Jesus Beam was not working AT ALL and they fixed it like 6 months later. Peeps had forgotten that it even existed, lmao.

Pre-1.5 they weren't quite as good. I was on an Argonian Templar and some folks told me that like was a self-imposed triple nerf

Vajrak

Joy_Division wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Because you play your templar as a PvE DPS.

This patch templar PvE DPS has been buffed. So from your gameplay perspective, templars feel fine

And right there comes the challenge --- how to make it feel fine in both PvE and PvP -- in PvE it is definitely fine, in PvP, can still be fun but definitely has some issues.

usmcjdking

Vajrak wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Because you play your templar as a PvE DPS.

This patch templar PvE DPS has been buffed. So from your gameplay perspective, templars feel fine

And right there comes the challenge --- how to make it feel fine in both PvE and PvP -- in PvE it is definitely fine, in PvP, can still be fun but definitely has some issues.

Stamplar is not fine in PVE lol. Stamplar is gutter trash in PVE, but it can pseudo offtank in terribad groups which make it quite good in certain applications. Stamplar is only seeing any level of success because there will never be a shortage of bad tanks and healers upon which Stamplar shines most. When your team is bad.

lol.

hedna123b14_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Because you play your templar as a PvE DPS.

This patch templar PvE DPS has been buffed. So from your gameplay perspective, templars feel fine

Stamplar DPS in PvE on PTS is the lowest of all Magicka and Stamina Classes

katorga

Every time i remember how much stuff i have to unlock makes me want to delete the game.

nailed it.

Drdeath20

Rome wasnt built in a day but yikes. Gonna be a rough go at it with a templar next patch in cyrodil.

Cinbri

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Well, you can read it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5992149/#Comment_5992149
Nothing interesting to read tho.

Minno

[snip] to say cinbri's feedback takes priority. And stamplar needs help badly.

If those changes do not happen, Templar will be bottom barrel.

[edited for thread bumping]

Vajrak

Still having fun with my newest Toddplar (mid level Stamplar) --- eventually it'll learn to walk! So far, damage for content hasn't been an issue, and PvP has been ---as boring as pvp on any stam spec.

Joy_Division

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Because you play your templar as a PvE DPS.

This patch templar PvE DPS has been buffed. So from your gameplay perspective, templars feel fine

Stamplar DPS in PvE on PTS is the lowest of all Magicka and Stamina Classes

It seems to be the case. From what I understand, the intent of reducing the cooldown while weaving Jabs is not working on the PTS. Do you also have an insight into what I hear a lot, PotL not exploding?

UnyieldingFlame

Joy_Division wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Why I am the only one who feels templars are fine?

My main is templar (sta DD), my main tank is Templar, my Healer is Templar, and my other DD is Templar (Ma DD).
(All Khajiit). And I play Templars almost exclusively since January 2014 beta.

Until last December my only level 50s were Templar, and 1 NB, since the pre-release weekend in March 2014.
(since managed to bother level my 2 DKs, Sta Sorc, Sta Warden)

My Stamplar DD with half bothered rotation, in real content (vet/normal dungeons trials, overland) dishes out more damage than Sta NBs and sta DKs, while is the best class suited to carve through trash fights without end. As resources isn't issue there.

We have all the tools needed to do everything, but we need to get out of the "meta" mentality and skill set and build our Templars based on what we do. Stamplars are high crit build, higher than NBs, while using Lover mundus to boot. So Briarheart with Levi or Toothrow (with Crit mundus) work wonders. Or VH for those needing more Weapon power.

Solar Barrage is great skill when used with weaving (not even cancellation), before we spam 3-4 times LA+Jabs and need to switch to bow bar. Screw rending slashes, half the vet content is immune to bleeding.

So stop looking at dummy metrics, ignore forums and get out of there experiment with your templars.

That's my thoughts, from someone who played Templars even when everyone had them as the most useless class back in 2014-2016 especially.

Because you play your templar as a PvE DPS.

This patch templar PvE DPS has been buffed. So from your gameplay perspective, templars feel fine

Stamplar DPS in PvE on PTS is the lowest of all Magicka and Stamina Classes

It seems to be the case. From what I understand, the intent of reducing the cooldown while weaving Jabs is not working on the PTS. Do you also have an insight into what I hear a lot, PotL not exploding?

The explosion damage of POTL is bugged and often does 0 damage in trial content. This is a DPS loss of around 3-4k in pure Single Target fights. There is zero reasons now to slot this on a stamplar and should only be used by healers. Which is honestly just pathetic by ZOS part.

Jabbs_Giggity

Cinbri wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Well, you can read it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5992149/#Comment_5992149
Nothing interesting to read tho.

Thank you, @Cinbri, this was not a boring read. In fact, this is information that @Checkmath should be addressing to the Devs in the Reps' meeting, if not already. Why is it so terribly difficult for ZOS Devs to calculate this information, especially when it's being provided by user feedback...

Templar = RIP [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Checkmath

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Well, you can read it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5992149/#Comment_5992149
Nothing interesting to read tho.

Thank you, @Cinbri, this was not a boring read. In fact, this is information that @Checkmath should be addressing to the Devs in the Reps' meeting, if not already. Why is it so terribly difficult for ZOS Devs to calculate this information, especially when it's being provided by user feedback...

Templar = RIP [snip]

already sent cinbris feedback to the devs over several ways.

[edited to remove quote]

technohic

I finally started grinding my warden. I hadn't because I was settling in that even though I had all the other classes, I just wind up playing my stamplar anyway. But its pretty obvious I will need to grind up a necro also as these expansion classes are powerful. If not for being behind a pay wall and other classes get nerfed when they come in; just simply looking at how they are designed for the game now.

I mean just look at stam DKs, Templar, and sorc. Game was originally elder staves online and stam classes were an afterthought. Then they just slapped stam onto the lesser used morphs, if at all; and passives largely were left alone. Warden and Necro are designed with having stam versions in mind.

Only bright side I can take from where we are heading is we are definitely to a point where the excuse of magplar being the best healing class so it shouldn't get the damage, escape, tankiness, or CC on the level of other classes, is just plain BS now.

cazlonb16_ESO

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Well, you can read it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5992149/#Comment_5992149
Nothing interesting to read tho.

Thank you, @Cinbri, this was not a boring read. In fact, this is information that @Checkmath should be addressing to the Devs in the Reps' meeting, if not already. Why is it so terribly difficult for ZOS Devs to calculate this information, especially when it's being provided by user feedback...

Templar = RIP [snip]

There is only so much the class reps and PTS testers can do, it is up to ZOS to act on reports and actually fix stuff.

Don't expect much for this cycle anymore, what you see in the first iteration on the PTS is largely what you will get once it goes live, minus minor adjustments and some bug fixes. For some reason Templar bugs never seem to be very high on the agenda though, no matter how well they are documented by dedicated players like @Cinbri

[edited to remove quote]

Minno

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Well, you can read it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5992149/#Comment_5992149
Nothing interesting to read tho.

Thank you, @Cinbri, this was not a boring read. In fact, this is information that @Checkmath should be addressing to the Devs in the Reps' meeting, if not already. Why is it so terribly difficult for ZOS Devs to calculate this information, especially when it's being provided by user feedback...

Templar = RIP until ZOS Devs get their heads out of their F*****g A**es!!!!

There is only so much the class reps and PTS testers can do, it is up to ZOS to act on reports and actually fix stuff.

Don't expect much for this cycle anymore, what you see in the first iteration on the PTS is largely what you will get once it goes live, minus minor adjustments and some bug fixes. For some reason Templar bugs never seem to be very high on the agenda though, no matter how well they are documented by dedicated players like @Cinbri

judging from the nightblade changes for 5.01, it seems they do quite a lot on their own (while ripping form our suggestions like giving them class based snare/immobile immunity which was a templar suggestion lol). They just happen to ignore the important templar changes that need to happen and some of these items are so old they became templar features lol. Even our healing ultimate secondary morph that no one uses hasnt been checked since 2015!

usmcjdking

Let's just...put this into context for a minute.

Warden: Major expedition, snare resistance.
Dragon Knight: Major expedition, snare immunity, immobilization immunity.
Sorcerer: Major or Minor expedition, Bolt Escape
Nightblade: Major expedition, cloak, snare immunity, immobilization immunity
Necromancer and Templar, neither.

Too bad Necromancer has a house that seemingly can kill you, whereas Templar freely puts out a welcome mat to get dogpiled on.

Jabbs_Giggity

Minno wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Still writing detailed feedback, trying describe in details how hard zos failed with templar standartization this update, and can say from testing 5.0.0 - they failed miserably.

Can you give some detailed feedback @Cinbri? I just don't get how the information you provide, that is 100% pure metric evidence of failure on ZOS's part, is STILL going unnoticed...

What I don't understand even further is that a non-ZOS employee is able to effectively test these areas of underperformance of a Class, yet ZOS seems completely incapable of doing such while being a part of their job description and really does put their integrity as a Corporate entity in question...

It's just really sad, not just from a Templar POV, but the entire game in general that the player base is more in-tune with deficiencies of the game's operation than the paid developers.

Well, you can read it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5992149/#Comment_5992149
Nothing interesting to read tho.

Thank you, @Cinbri, this was not a boring read. In fact, this is information that @Checkmath should be addressing to the Devs in the Reps' meeting, if not already. Why is it so terribly difficult for ZOS Devs to calculate this information, especially when it's being provided by user feedback...

Templar = RIP until ZOS Devs get their heads out of their F*****g A**es!!!!

There is only so much the class reps and PTS testers can do, it is up to ZOS to act on reports and actually fix stuff.

Don't expect much for this cycle anymore, what you see in the first iteration on the PTS is largely what you will get once it goes live, minus minor adjustments and some bug fixes. For some reason Templar bugs never seem to be very high on the agenda though, no matter how well they are documented by dedicated players like @Cinbri

judging from the nightblade changes for 5.01, it seems they do quite a lot on their own (while ripping form our suggestions like giving them class based snare/immobile immunity which was a templar suggestion lol). They just happen to ignore the important templar changes that need to happen and some of these items are so old they became templar features lol. Even our healing ultimate secondary morph that no one uses hasnt been checked since 2015!

Based on everything I have read and seen via PTS videos, ZOS took all of the suggestion ideas (mostly from Templar feedback) to create a "unique" class that is the complete opposite of "unique" so they would not have to go back and redesign the Templar class.
It's very dissappointing. I love the Templar class, I do. However, seeing patch after patch how the identity is minisculed and the skills are constantly nerfed in to the ground makes me want to shelf my Templars and move on - which I have. The problem that I have is that every other class I play tends to become bland because I just want to play them how I play my Templar and cannot. I have gone from a daily - 6+ hours/day - player to logging in once or twice a week only to do one or two BG's now...
Would love to see this class revived because it would pull me, and so many others back in to the game. However, I feel that there is no hope and I am pretty much clinging on to ESO solely until something else comes out.

Minno

usmcjdking wrote: »

Let's just...put this into context for a minute.

Warden: Major expedition, snare resistance.
Dragon Knight: Major expedition, snare immunity, immobilization immunity.
Sorcerer: Major or Minor expedition, Bolt Escape
Nightblade: Major expedition, cloak, snare immunity, immobilization immunity
Necromancer and Templar, neither.

Too bad Necromancer has a house that seemingly can kill you, whereas Templar freely puts out a welcome mat to get dogpiled on.

at least we have BOL burst heal and great healing passives....oh wait sorc, necromancer and DK have those too lol

#RIPplar

Jabbs_Giggity

Minno wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Let's just...put this into context for a minute.

Warden: Major expedition, snare resistance.
Dragon Knight: Major expedition, snare immunity, immobilization immunity.
Sorcerer: Major or Minor expedition, Bolt Escape
Nightblade: Major expedition, cloak, snare immunity, immobilization immunity
Necromancer and Templar, neither.

Too bad Necromancer has a house that seemingly can kill you, whereas Templar freely puts out a welcome mat to get dogpiled on.

at least we have BOL burst heal and great healing passives....oh wait sorc, necromancer and DK have those too lol

#RIPplar

BoL is sub-par, at best...don't forget Wardens! And when Necros go live they will be BiS for both PVP and PVE Healers! Why? Well you can sub all heals with Resto + Instant ressurect 3 players (dumbest [snip] thing in the game...) = Will destroy PVP running 3+ Necro 100+K Health DD's with a skill that tooltips 20+K with MAJOR DEFILE (Oh, also not an Ultimate, just an active skill....) and 1 Necro healer that can (if someone manages to kill the DD's...) instant ressurect instantly all 3.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Mrsinister2

Vapirko wrote: »

Just got back on my Templar after a couple of weeks break from PvP, and I just can’t stress enough how badly we need some kind of disengagement tool or proactive defense. I think magblars will be in a great spot with the new race against time, but stamplars and medium armor especially are in a tough spot when it comes to maneuvering safely to LoS. DKs have wings, wardens have shimmering shield, NBs have cloak and sorcs have shields and streak. And all the stamina classes at least have access to the same heals as stamplars and in most cases ways of making those heals stronger or more effective. By comparison stamplars are kind of just sitting ducks. Stam DKs have major mending, Stamblades have cloak, Wardens have trees and are just tanky in general. Stamplars are in desperate need of more applicable passives at the very least.

This is all I really care about I don't know what stamplar does to get off there back foot but I am really tired of holding block for dear life while spamming heals.

Minno wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Let's just...put this into context for a minute.

Warden: Major expedition, snare resistance.
Dragon Knight: Major expedition, snare immunity, immobilization immunity.
Sorcerer: Major or Minor expedition, Bolt Escape
Nightblade: Major expedition, cloak, snare immunity, immobilization immunity
Necromancer and Templar, neither.

Too bad Necromancer has a house that seemingly can kill you, whereas Templar freely puts out a welcome mat to get dogpiled on.

at least we have BOL burst heal and great healing passives....oh wait sorc, necromancer and DK have those too lol

#RIPplar

I always assumed Templar was built the was it was because we had such a strong burst heal but now it seems most classes have a huge burst heal along with massive burst damage, mobility and just better stuff in general.

I don't really get it at all at this point especially after seeing the nerfs in the first pts update. I'm just gonna hope for more changes because I'm getting really tired of perma block vamplar and dying on my back bar.

Minno

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Just got back on my Templar after a couple of weeks break from PvP, and I just can’t stress enough how badly we need some kind of disengagement tool or proactive defense. I think magblars will be in a great spot with the new race against time, but stamplars and medium armor especially are in a tough spot when it comes to maneuvering safely to LoS. DKs have wings, wardens have shimmering shield, NBs have cloak and sorcs have shields and streak. And all the stamina classes at least have access to the same heals as stamplars and in most cases ways of making those heals stronger or more effective. By comparison stamplars are kind of just sitting ducks. Stam DKs have major mending, Stamblades have cloak, Wardens have trees and are just tanky in general. Stamplars are in desperate need of more applicable passives at the very least.

This is all I really care about I don't know what stamplar does to get off there back foot but I am really tired of holding block for dear life while spamming heals.

Minno wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Let's just...put this into context for a minute.

Warden: Major expedition, snare resistance.
Dragon Knight: Major expedition, snare immunity, immobilization immunity.
Sorcerer: Major or Minor expedition, Bolt Escape
Nightblade: Major expedition, cloak, snare immunity, immobilization immunity
Necromancer and Templar, neither.

Too bad Necromancer has a house that seemingly can kill you, whereas Templar freely puts out a welcome mat to get dogpiled on.

at least we have BOL burst heal and great healing passives....oh wait sorc, necromancer and DK have those too lol

#RIPplar

I always assumed Templar was built the was it was because we had such a strong burst heal but now it seems most classes have a huge burst heal along with massive burst damage, mobility and just better stuff in general.

I don't really get it at all at this point especially after seeing the nerfs in the first pts update. I'm just gonna hope for more changes because I'm getting really tired of perma block vamplar and dying on my back bar.

That is exactly why it hasnt received the buffs it needed to ween off super high tank builds.

Mrsinister2

Minno wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Just got back on my Templar after a couple of weeks break from PvP, and I just can’t stress enough how badly we need some kind of disengagement tool or proactive defense. I think magblars will be in a great spot with the new race against time, but stamplars and medium armor especially are in a tough spot when it comes to maneuvering safely to LoS. DKs have wings, wardens have shimmering shield, NBs have cloak and sorcs have shields and streak. And all the stamina classes at least have access to the same heals as stamplars and in most cases ways of making those heals stronger or more effective. By comparison stamplars are kind of just sitting ducks. Stam DKs have major mending, Stamblades have cloak, Wardens have trees and are just tanky in general. Stamplars are in desperate need of more applicable passives at the very least.

This is all I really care about I don't know what stamplar does to get off there back foot but I am really tired of holding block for dear life while spamming heals.

Minno wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Let's just...put this into context for a minute.

Warden: Major expedition, snare resistance.
Dragon Knight: Major expedition, snare immunity, immobilization immunity.
Sorcerer: Major or Minor expedition, Bolt Escape
Nightblade: Major expedition, cloak, snare immunity, immobilization immunity
Necromancer and Templar, neither.

Too bad Necromancer has a house that seemingly can kill you, whereas Templar freely puts out a welcome mat to get dogpiled on.

at least we have BOL burst heal and great healing passives....oh wait sorc, necromancer and DK have those too lol

#RIPplar

I always assumed Templar was built the was it was because we had such a strong burst heal but now it seems most classes have a huge burst heal along with massive burst damage, mobility and just better stuff in general.

I don't really get it at all at this point especially after seeing the nerfs in the first pts update. I'm just gonna hope for more changes because I'm getting really tired of perma block vamplar and dying on my back bar.

That is exactly why it hasnt received the buffs it needed to ween off super high tank builds.

I just want huge damage, huge heals, mobility and proactive damage mitigation is that to much to ask for

I actually get what the problem could be with the wrong buffs but I just don't want to be forced into group support or have a werewolf Stam bro blow my house down and kill me the second i try and go on the attack.

Hopefully more important people then me read all the feedback you, cinbri and emac for stamplar give so we can get at least a little something to help out a few of these issues.