[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

Xvorg

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

They should have picked class reps through a dueling tournament. This thread is garbage.

You definitely don't want to be represented by duelists. It's not a good representation of PVE or open-world PVP. Dueling is like .0001% of this game.

Honestly, a lot of issues could be solved by basing an ability off of max resource (stam or mag)… much like Flames of Oblivion, Domihaus, etc.

ZOS could change Molten Whip, Choking Talons, and Deep Breath to be either fire or poison damage... whichever resource was higher.

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Pain point #348: mDK execute (again)

From just today, alone (right after the Wolf Hunter release)

I've noticed that there are a lot more dodge builds popping up out there. I'm guessing that it's because of the change to Rune Cage and Sloads (they're now dodgable). The setup for our most powerful attack, Power Lash, is getting dodged like a mother [snip]er. The fact that it's a three part setup for Powerlash (talons, flame lash, powerlash) is really putting us at a disadvantage. I keep seeing my Burning Embers and Power Lash being dodged while my Leap and Empowering Chains keep popping up with "miss". Or even better yet- our "DOT based class" constantly has our DOTs being suppressed by Nightblades.

In the mean time- we're getting spammed by 2H Executioner, Mages Fury (and it's passive execute, mind you), Jesus Beams, cowardly poison injections from stealth, and Spin-to-Win Steel Tornados.

With our strongest defense (blocking) being nerfed and major defiles/bleeds/sloads whittling us down- we need to be able to be more on the offense against our opponents.

Can we please finally get a [snip]ing execute?

Fossilize is undodgeable and instantly procs powerlash. I DO want an execute though.

Foss do not proc Powerlash immediately. You need to land a regular lash on a stunned/immo enemy to set them off balance firts, THEN you can fire Powerlash...

Xvorg

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

It doesn't insta proc it. Its the setup lash first, when they break free, then you powerlash and they roll to avoid it. If whip just instaproc'd on CCs and was still dodgable you could guarantee it on foss, but not guarantee both normal lash and power lash like before. And it'd still have the CD and be rollable.

That way it'd be better able to be used as a finisher.

If people break free then dodge the fossizile, just use PL after the roll dodge.

It's the same than using assassin's wll just right after incap, if the ennemy dodge it, then land the bow after the dodge roll.

Yes, that generally is how it is done, a massive pain though if they roll again or cloak or what have you. You can also talon-normlash-foss-powerlash, but that eats a chunk of magicka and isn't guaranteed because they can ignore the talons with FM or roll the setup lash. Its just such a pain in the ass to land.

I said that months ago, both Foss and Talons require the objective to dodge roll to get away from the immovilization, so it was impossible to land a decente Power Lash in those conditions... but ZoS decided it was OK.

At the end it was one of the 2:

1- Power Lash dodgeable or:
2- Power Lash with a CD...

But ZoS decided it was both, dodgeable AND with a CD.

Now Talons are useless except as stam burners...

Xvorg

Ozazz wrote: »

Dk is in its best position it has been for a while and to see kids still complaining about buffs makes me nauseous!
dk just received what is possibly the biggest buff! Over the course of this games history, in game specific to any class.

You know? I have a kind hybrid bow sorc mainly relying on elemental weapon and frag proc to do dmg (she also uses dodge roll a lot and hardened, cuz she can)... and yesterday I got the cyro mission on killing 20 DKs... something it took me hours before the last patch.

It took me 15 minutes and 0 deaths to accomplish with the mission, you know why? Becasue most DKs in cyro are going spamming wings like there's no tomorrow. And that's a char I made just to have fun, no attempt to go competitive or something similar.

Most sheeps believe the buff to wings was a good thing without considering how bad is that skill, because it is utter crap. It only kills lowbies. Any decent player won't ever suffer against it. And any regular to decent DK won't slot it because it is a magicka leak. There are way better skills to mitigate dmg as a DK, starting with holding your mouse right button...

Xvorg

And guys, please stop this fight between StamDK and MagDK. Both suffer form the same illness: bad passives. Yes, Whip helps a lot to mDKs regarding regen and healing, but cannot block any decently. Yes, sDK can block better than almost any class in the game, but has no way to do dmg if you go that way, neither to recover stam or build ulti...

Both specs are in the very same ship and instead of trying to sink the other we should start thinking on how we can save them both.

GawdSB

Main Points:
1. World in Ruin, why is this only for AOEs? Needs to be improved for all Fire and Poison damage. Much like a Sorc has the physical and shock damage buff. Or Warden with magic and frost.
2. Molten Weapons, seems outdated with how prominent light attacks are should incorporate that into the skill morph.

IZZEFlameLash

Xvorg wrote: »

And guys, please stop this fight between StamDK and MagDK. Both suffer form the same illness: bad passives. Yes, Whip helps a lot to mDKs regarding regen and healing, but cannot block any decently. Yes, sDK can block better than almost any class in the game, but has no way to do dmg if you go that way, neither to recover stam or build ulti...

Both specs are in the very same ship and instead of trying to sink the other we should start thinking on how we can save them both.

Agreed. We'd be better off proposing for real QoL that'd impact both specs like ultgen and sustain with passives updated so that they aren't useless.

Æterny

1- Spammable and heals for Stamina
2- Molten buff should get some buff, like heal when attack or deal extra damage. Your weapon is on fire after all...

Pelican

1) Dragonknight standard is too weak in pvp as most people can just easily move out of it.
2) Molten weapons and its morphs do not give a unique effect. major sorc/brutality can be obtained from so many other sources now. It needs its own effect that is unique (eg. making all your light attacks deal fire damage)

John_Falstaff

@Pelican , fire damage wouldn't be universal, since stamina DKs would be disadvantaged - their CP won't buff fire damage. Though I'll agree that Molten, among other things, need to be reworked, more so that one morph buffs the freshly nerfed heavy attacks everyone is running from like from a plague.

Kadoin

Pelican wrote: »

1) Dragonknight standard is too weak in pvp as most people can just easily move out of it.
2) Molten weapons and its morphs do not give a unique effect. major sorc/brutality can be obtained from so many other sources now. It needs its own effect that is unique (eg. making all your light attacks deal fire damage)

You would want such an effect in PvP when absorb magic exists? I could see it in PvE, but in PvP? With how many people are "wising up" to how much better absorb magic is than defensive posture and the fact that soul assault can be absorbed by spamming absorb magic, I'd have a hard time slotting it on my DK if this change happened.

Savos_Saren

I wish ZOS would do something to help DKs (stam and mag) with niche sets that we're a little more disadvantaged at using. For instance: A lot of magicka-based classes benefit from Necropotence (Sorcs have pets, Wardens have pets, NBs have pets) and stamina-based classes have the option for Huntleader (even stamDKs don't have pets).

Maybe they could convert Molten Armaments to give us a buff and a pet also? Like a Flame Atronauch for the fire morph and a Poisoned Sep Adder for the stamina morph.

That way- were not constantly hoping for Engine Guardian to proc.

Toc de Malsvi

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I wish ZOS would do something to help DKs (stam and mag) with niche sets that we're a little more disadvantaged at using. For instance: A lot of magicka-based classes benefit from Necropotence (Sorcs have pets, Wardens have pets, NBs have pets) and stamina-based classes have the option for Huntleader (even stamDKs don't have pets).

Maybe they could convert Molten Armaments to give us a buff and a pet also? Like a Flame Atronauch for the fire morph and a Poisoned Sep Adder for the stamina morph.

That way- were not constantly hoping for Engine Guardian to proc.

They need to do something with that skill its gone to crap.

robpr

Pain points:

1. Sustain. Can't sustain even half of 3mil dummy without heavy attack or Equilibrium. Being a vampire is almost a must.
2. Melee range of most skills. Only option for class ranged spammable is Stone Fist, that deals small damage and is almost as expensive as Eruption. It's fine as stam, but mag is vulnerable up close.

I feel that it's least versatile class in game due to skills cost. DK healer offer class skill synergies that collide with normal group play (Standart - very expensive offensive ult that does nothing to the group, Talons - root enemies interrupting tank job).
DK dd has no execute and occupy stam slot regardless if mag or stam, giving almost nothing to the group except Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath.

Suggestions:
-Lower the cost of the abilities. Can be done either by lowering the cost itself, increase resource return of Combustion to 700-800 or ultimate generation.
-Add some buffs to the group. Stonefist could give AoE resistances/heals. Standart of might could also work for teammates standing in the field. Igneous Weapons/Molten Armaments could add fire damage to teammates attacks.
-Viable option for mag to stay at range could be nice, but not required.

Integral1900

I don’t mind not having an execute because historically the dk, especially the magic dk did more damage overall to compensate, things change though so now we have no execute and over expensive skills

IAVITNI

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

.
Outdated passives:
As explained above battle roar counteracts how you would normally use your ultimates.
Changing this into working like Balorgh( ult used rather than cost) would be a big help

Little caveat to this. I support the BR change to work like Balorgh, but change the wording slightly from "current ultimate" to "ultimate cost, including additional ultimate". Pairing sets like Alteration and Dragon with this passive is a creative manipulation of mechanics. Creativity, so long as it does not induce toxic gameplay, should be rewarded, not punished.

I agree that the creativity shouldn't be punished but I remember the Battle Roar calculates from the base cost. So, you aren't getting punished for running 2 ult cost reduction sets I believe. Could be changed this patch in a sneaky way.

That was the point I was trying to get at.

Right now, or at least last I checked, it works the way you described. But if BR is changed to resources based on current ultimate, it's actually an indirect nerf to running Alteration.

So for example, right now Leap at 120 returns 120 ultimate worth with or without Alteration.

But if changed to current ultimate, Leap would return 113 ultimate worth. Past 120 it's a non-issue. But from 113-120 it's actually a net loss.

If it's changed to base cost + additional ultimate, it works the same way except using your ultimate in that 113-120 range isn't punished.

The example seems negligible but it makes a difference for a high cost ultimate. Players shouldn't feel punished for wearing those sets.

Note* I don't run Alteration or Dragon. Just don't think it's fair.

zParallaxz

Yo there’s no point in reposting the same ideas. Zos knows what we as magdk/ stamdk mains want, there is literal 17 pages of the same things said. The only we can do now is re roll another class and keep posting bump (even though that wouldn’t do much either). Zos has made the idea of if you post your feed back and it has a huge collective it will be looked at being implemented. When in reality no matter how much people complain about a classes issues, Zos will go in the direction THEY want not necessarily what the people who play their game want. Makes sense right, make the game how you want it not how the customers who pay for the game want it. That’s like going to subway and they make ur sandwich with your ideas of toppings in mind but go in a different direction and say you know what, maybe you will like chicken and marinara sauce with mayonnaise on top.

_Ahala_

Stamwhip... with a berserker type mechanic that causes it to do more damage the lower your health is

zParallaxz

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Stamwhip... with a berserker type mechanic that causes it to do more damage the lower your health is

Dawg u know how many people have said stam whip with a slight twist or some demeanor where we have to be in bad situation for a skill to effective. There’s literally 5 pages debating stam whip. No more post of the same sh*t only bumps. I say this because I have wasted my time in the past with these issues, and I don’t want Zos to do the same to u .

IZZEFlameLash

IAVITNI wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

.
Outdated passives:
As explained above battle roar counteracts how you would normally use your ultimates.
Changing this into working like Balorgh( ult used rather than cost) would be a big help

Little caveat to this. I support the BR change to work like Balorgh, but change the wording slightly from "current ultimate" to "ultimate cost, including additional ultimate". Pairing sets like Alteration and Dragon with this passive is a creative manipulation of mechanics. Creativity, so long as it does not induce toxic gameplay, should be rewarded, not punished.

I agree that the creativity shouldn't be punished but I remember the Battle Roar calculates from the base cost. So, you aren't getting punished for running 2 ult cost reduction sets I believe. Could be changed this patch in a sneaky way.

That was the point I was trying to get at.

Right now, or at least last I checked, it works the way you described. But if BR is changed to resources based on current ultimate, it's actually an indirect nerf to running Alteration.

So for example, right now Leap at 120 returns 120 ultimate worth with or without Alteration.

But if changed to current ultimate, Leap would return 113 ultimate worth. Past 120 it's a non-issue. But from 113-120 it's actually a net loss.

If it's changed to base cost + additional ultimate, it works the same way except using your ultimate in that 113-120 range isn't punished.

The example seems negligible but it makes a difference for a high cost ultimate. Players shouldn't feel punished for wearing those sets.

Note* I don't run Alteration or Dragon. Just don't think it's fair.

Aaah, I may not have read your post properly then. My bad. We are on the same page, for keeping BR return the resources on the base cost. I agree with bast cost + additional idea. It will keep the options open for DKs. I doubt ZOS will do this though, unfortunately.

Savos_Saren

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Stamwhip... with a berserker type mechanic that causes it to do more damage the lower your health is

Yeah... because stamina characters need MOAR executes while their magicka counter part has zero.

IZZEFlameLash

Savos_Saren wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Stamwhip... with a berserker type mechanic that causes it to do more damage the lower your health is

Yeah... because stamina characters need MOAR executes while their magicka counter part has zero.

You mean... Bloodthirsty doesn't execute?

John_Falstaff

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Yeah... because stamina characters need MOAR executes while their magicka counter part has zero.

I'm not a proponent of stamina whip (I don't think it'll solve issues with the class that needs deep overhaul), but I think that infighting between magicka and stamina DKs won't get us closer to getting out of oubliette.

Then again, we all know that ZOS has a sure way to make every class great again. Yes, you got it right. Welkynar motif. ^^

Savos_Saren

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Yeah... because stamina characters need MOAR executes while their magicka counter part has zero.

I'm not a proponent of stamina whip (I don't think it'll solve issues with the class that needs deep overhaul), but I think that infighting between magicka and stamina DKs won't get us closer to getting out of oubliette.

Then again, we all know that ZOS has a sure way to make every class great again. Yes, you got it right. Welkynar motif. ^^

Right? For the low low price of 14000 crowns you can buy a house or 6000 crowns you can buy a clothing motif.

...oh, and ZOS will look into adjusting the in game lag spikes/load screens in the year 2021.

Savos_Saren

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Stamwhip... with a berserker type mechanic that causes it to do more damage the lower your health is

Yeah... because stamina characters need MOAR executes while their magicka counter part has zero.

You mean... Bloodthirsty doesn't execute?

I love this one! You know how many people swore up and down that blood thirsty would be the mDK's form of execute? Yay! We can replace ~2400 much needed magicka resources for a 27% extra bonus to low health enemies.

This, of course, wouldn't be so bad if we could wear a set like necropotence. Oh, wait... we don't have pets. I guess we could wait for Engine Guardian to proc once in a while.

I'll be damned, though, if bloodthirsty isn't a better trait for a class that has two executes and can wear necropotence because they have access to more pets...


EDIT: Then again- I did post earlier that if ZOS added a pet to our Molten Weapons skill (Flame Atro for mag and Poisonous Sep Adder for Stam) it actually would help us a bit with Necropotence.

CaliMade

As a mag dk main - Mag dks are perfectly fine right where they are PERFECT. No stronger, no weaker(for pvp that is).

stam dk just needs stam morphs. just like 2-3 more stam class abilities to choose from would suffice.

zParallaxz

CaliMade wrote: »

As a mag dk main - Mag dks are perfectly fine right where they are PERFECT. No stronger, no weaker(for pvp that is).

stam dk just needs stam morphs. just like 2-3 more stam class abilities to choose from would suffice.

You must not be good then bro, do u really think passives like elder dragon, battle roar, world in ruin, combustion etc, don’t need looking at.

zParallaxz

Dragonknights as a whole need a rework. They weren’t meant to function without the reduce cost cp. Every other class can and does.

charley222

i play dk from 2004 and both stam and magicka have very poor playing style for pvp

playing magicka you only have to Petrify your enemy to dead and spam Lava Whip this is effective


playing stam dk is very bad you have to choice

1- to be a meat shield take a huge amount of damage and return any damage and die good to push the front line in cyrodiil
2- dps choice are very bad because all sacrifice you need to do to gain dps
2-1-because dk have any Burst damage, yes dk have strong DoT but have anything to reduce healing so your DOT is useless your enemy will heal back easy compare( NB have Major Defile and is also a only 70 point ultimate Death Stroke /facepalm to balance ) , so DK dps melee rely on bow (Lethal Arrow) mean range attack , /facepalm do you think this make sense to use and rely on a range attack for a melee dps this is so bad and broken just there this show how poor the class is fix

how to start fixing this issue simple fix start give them a Minor Defile now the next question on what skill , this open the door to some very kool concep in my opinion melee stam dk suffer to dont have Minor Defile or major Defile , so for now the melee stam DK is good to be a meat shield or rely on a range attack Oo

IZZEFlameLash

charley222 wrote: »

i play dk from 2004 and both stam and magicka have very poor playing style for pvp

playing magicka you only have to Petrify your enemy to dead and spam Lava Whip this is effective


playing stam dk is very bad you have to choice

1- to be a meat shield take a huge amount of damage and return any damage and die good to push the front line in cyrodiil
2- dps choice are very bad because all sacrifice you need to do to gain dps
2-1-because dk have any Burst damage, yes dk have strong DoT but have anything to reduce healing so your DOT is useless your enemy will heal back easy compare( NB have Major Defile and is also a only 70 point ultimate Death Stroke /facepalm to balance ) , so DK dps melee rely on bow (Lethal Arrow) mean range attack , /facepalm do you think this make sense to use and rely on a range attack for a melee dps this is so bad and broken just there this show how poor the class is fix

how to start fixing this issue simple fix start give them a Minor Defile now the next question on what skill , this open the door to some very kool concep in my opinion melee stam dk suffer to dont have Minor Defile or major Defile , so for now the melee stam DK is good to be a meat shield or rely on a range attack Oo

You mean 2014? Lol, the game did not even exist in 2004. Well, I think DKs need some form of sustain buff. Almost all DK problems basically come from sustain as none of our passives are good at sustaining except situationally (e.g burning /poisoned status effect for Combustion, needing ult for Battle Roar while we crawl our way to the ult with slow ultgen for a class dependent on ult for sustain). I don't know, maybe Major Defile might help but I think as soon as sustaining is not a minigame, DKs will be whole lot better.

charley222

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

charley222 wrote: »

i play dk from 2004 and both stam and magicka have very poor playing style for pvp

playing magicka you only have to Petrify your enemy to dead and spam Lava Whip this is effective


playing stam dk is very bad you have to choice

1- to be a meat shield take a huge amount of damage and return any damage and die good to push the front line in cyrodiil
2- dps choice are very bad because all sacrifice you need to do to gain dps
2-1-because dk have any Burst damage, yes dk have strong DoT but have anything to reduce healing so your DOT is useless your enemy will heal back easy compare( NB have Major Defile and is also a only 70 point ultimate Death Stroke /facepalm to balance ) , so DK dps melee rely on bow (Lethal Arrow) mean range attack , /facepalm do you think this make sense to use and rely on a range attack for a melee dps this is so bad and broken just there this show how poor the class is fix

how to start fixing this issue simple fix start give them a Minor Defile now the next question on what skill , this open the door to some very kool concep in my opinion melee stam dk suffer to dont have Minor Defile or major Defile , so for now the melee stam DK is good to be a meat shield or rely on a range attack Oo

You mean 2014? Lol, the game did not even exist in 2004. Well, I think DKs need some form of sustain buff. Almost all DK problems basically come from sustain as none of our passives are good at sustaining except situationally (e.g burning /poisoned status effect for Combustion, needing ult for Battle Roar while we crawl our way to the ult with slow ultgen for a class dependent on ult for sustain). I don't know, maybe Major Defile might help but I think as soon as sustaining is not a minigame, DKs will be whole lot better.

yea your right my mistake, 2004 is the time i start playing wow yea i understand player have the feeling dk always run short to sustain but also having Minor Defile or major Defile this will increase the cost to sustaining to other class
also this make any sense for a melee to back off and using bow to have Major Defile