ESO Class Reps

Waffennacht

I did really enjoy my part in the warden discussion. Was all solid ideas and discussion.

NightbladeMechanics

DuskMarine wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

First opinions on the discords so far (Note this is just my personal opinion!) Note these views are as a PvPer.

Warden: Did not check this discord as I am not involved

Dragonknight: Extremely well led by @Quantum_V who looked at fair buffs and nerfs where appropriate

Templar: Pretty much empty of knowledagble magplars who play PvP on non healtanks and little activity from @Joy_Division who seemed pretty busy at the time, so can't really say. Ill see how it progresses in the next few days.

Sorceror: HEAVILY bias thread with a lot of very dodgy buffs being "strongly considered" for magsorc, specifically pets, by people with little to no pet knowledge, but also a few good Quality of Life changes to some buggy skills, lead by @Hexys. Ill see how it progresses in the next few days

Nightblade: Absolutely awful with walls of spiteful content and off topic hate, drama etc. Little to no actual discussion after the first few hours (which were actually good). Left the discord and no intentions bothering sharing my magnb experience (my main class) in that atmosphere. No idea who the main lead here was meant to be but it was shocking.

Definite winner was @Quantum_V whom im very glad won the spot!

Talking from a nb discord perspective, people have been giving ideas for something like 10 hours from yesterday eventing, and they went off topic for max 1h around 1am. Not one single hate comment has been mate, no drama occurred and no name shaming happened. You did not say one word in the hours people spent talking, you gave no contribution at all, you came in at 1am, took a look and got out. I have no idea why you are so biased (well, I kinda do since you explicitly express your disgust to having hexys as a representative both on stream, your discord and on the forums, and maybe you think he's the main moderator of the nb channel), but you should consider helping if you think the situation is so drastically bad. Don't wanna do it? Don't *** talk people and initiatives, it is easy as that.

Having said so, since you have a big experience with magnb, about which, from a PvP perspective, today has been talked a bit, it would be nice to have you back there, even though you don't like the people. Give ideas, help the reps to give valuable feedback and keep discussion relevant, or, again, don't *** talk.

I am giving my honest opinion based on the appearance of the chat. I'd like to point out that multiple comments were removed by Kena related to some seriously offensive chat in the Cyrodiil section of Nightblade, and that there was no 'useful' discussion, just waste of time / spite between 10:00~ English time to 2am when I went to sleep. As I said before, I didn't even bother trying to contribute because there was a wall of toxic chat.

I also actually complimented hexys slightly in my previous post, but you chose to ignore that. Note that I am as unbias as it physically gets as I play every (magicka) class. I just want good balance, and unconstructive / extremely bias suggestions and spite posts get nowhere.

Also, my stream content is entirely free and you are not forced to watch if you do not enjoy the content. Anyone on PC EU will understand fully why I have major concerns about hexys as a rep, but he has been chosen and I'm happy to live with that, I just hope he can do a good job.

I did not remove any comments, and there was one incident all day and night which could be considered even remotely toxic, which I handled immediately after you brought it to my attention. You explained to me in pms that you took the joke in that incident personally because it was a jab made at your friend in game, but don't let it discolor your impression of the whole discord. The nightblade discord has been our most active, with the most members and full of quality discussion for going on 24 hours now. There was never a "wall of toxic chat."

Keep in mind that players with less experience on the class or bad suggestions have just as much right to voice their opinions as anyone else. Their input will be evaluated and filtered out as we move along. That's part of the job.

Also keep in mind that people will meme and joke as they bond and get to know each other (not referring to the joke which I disciplined, as it went too far). This will end up developing a comfortable and familiar culture within the discords as they become their own little communities. Don't expect every conversation to remain 100% serious and on topic. We are watching the discussions and making notes of poignant suggestions and pain points as they happen, though. This is all a natural part of the process. Don't worry.

Lastly, remember when we were pming that I said I will not tolerate drama or toxicity penetrating these discords or this program. I was referring to the people who made the inappropriate joke about your friend at the time, but that goes for you as well. You say you only want balance and constructive discussion when writing in the discords or defending yourself here, yet you have misrepresented the activity in the discords, insulted members of the program, and slandered our attempts to reach out to the community multiple times in this thread. We welcome your criticism, but your tone is becoming increasingly inflamed and unconstructive. Please limit future criticism to specific suggestions of how you think we can do things better, and please maintain an accurate and objective representation of the activities within the discords if you wish to remain welcome in them.

Torbschka wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics @Checkmath @Joy_Division and the others.

Just some feedback / input regarding your discord channels and your behaviour in there.

Plesse, act actually more like a moderator and make it more structured. As @Blobsky already strifed in a further post, some of the discord are pure chaos.

Some things you should 100% do.

1. make a write up about the "major" concerns every week / few days with bullet points.
2. those points will get discussed again, u reevaluate it again.
3. the list should be get "shorter" every week, so every class will have just a "few" (4-6) concerns changes which will be discussed, since we shouldnt be so deillusional that we think we will get pages for every class implemented.
4. after the major concerns are highlighted, THEN we discuss real changes to passives / skills which will adjust those concerns.

This is actually a circle for 1 month. Please create an extra channel for those "weekly" summarys by u, since the channels createdyet are mostly "fluted" with spam and without proper moderation will end up in Chaos.

I dont mean to be rude, I know u guys are just "out" there for 2 days, but u should start organize things from the start. Creating those discords without a propet write up in the beginning how things will be there as a "sticky" post for every discord was actually the first mistake. U wanted this, so please show a bit of professional behaviour.

We already have such systems in place, but I'll start making them more visible and transparent. Each discord has a sticky with guidelines for behavior, plus labeled channels for discussions. Directions for the community are straightforward -- behave civilly, and talk about what frustrates you or what you'd like to see with each class in the designated channels.

Our own processes are not as visible. We have summary channels in the discords as well as external Excel spreadsheets where we are noting popular topics and quality suggestions for future reference and discussion. Over time, we will pull common complaints and pain points out from the mass of discussions as well as recommendations for fixes (which are more naturally discussed simultaneously, not in sequence), and we will restart new discussions with the community on more focused topics as we near our meetings with ZOS.

These first few days or weeks will be chaotic as people swarm into the discords and write out every idea or complaint they've ever had for each class and topic. We are making note of every idea worth returning to later, and we will refine that list down to the main pain points prior to our meeting with ZOS. Please be patient as we collect this large initial influx of information.

Thanks for the feedback! ^_^

and so what ive already said begins time to go hide in the bunker like i did in wow and wait for them to "balance" the game and then revert it all because it didnt work byeeeeeee.

I do hope it goes better than that. lol

Only time will tell, but I do believe we have a solid group of minds here. We want class diversity, mechanical diversity, build diversity, counterplay, and interesting decision making in combat to be top priorities. I believe you mentioned homogenization before. We definitely don't want that.

TheRedRavenTR

@Checkmath Congrats mate!

Jsmalls

@Hexys

We believe in you!! Help make MagSorcs a fun class to play again!

Quantum_V

Baconlad wrote: »

Some great names up there.

In particular I am satisfied with @Joy_Division .

Makes me feel good to know someone with such knowledge of magplar is on the team.

And for @Quantum_V . My oh my, if you don't know him you must not have been on the end of his whip. You see him in cyrodil? Just turn around or accept the free battlerez

LOL Bacon!

quake89

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

We have assembled and opened to the public the following seven Discord servers for community feedback and discussion.

The purpose of these servers is to have a consolidated space where anyone interested can participate in conversation and reach us conveniently. From the discussion that occurs in these servers as well as each of our usual communities, Class Representatives will work to create a "master list" of key pain points and general bugs to present to the ESO Development Team.

Our aim is to be an un-biased and wide-reaching voice for all players, so the more contribution, the better. Feel free to invite your friends and join in!

Keep in mind that these Discords are meant to be places for SERIOUS FEEDBACK AND DISCUSSION ONLY, and each will be moderated accordingly.

Nightblade Discussion:
https://discord.gg/t2Xhnu6

Dragonknight Discussion:
https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8

Sorcerer Discussion:
https://discord.gg/vkKjCD

Templar Discussion:
https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7

Warden Discussion:
https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys

General Healing Discussion:
https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb

TONKS!
https://discord.gg/DRNYd39

We will inquire about having these server links posted in a more visible location once Gina is back in the office after the holiday weekend. For now, welcome to our new communities.

The sorc link appears to be broken

DoctorESO

It's worth saying again: the appropriate reaction to this new program is happiness, not sadness.

Eyro

DoctorESO wrote: »

It's worth saying again: the appropriate reaction to this new program is happiness, not sadness.

While I do think it is bad form to over react as some people seem to be doing. I would also say it is bad form to tell people how they are suppose to feel. That is what my meds are for.

NightbladeMechanics

quake89 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

We have assembled and opened to the public the following seven Discord servers for community feedback and discussion.

The purpose of these servers is to have a consolidated space where anyone interested can participate in conversation and reach us conveniently. From the discussion that occurs in these servers as well as each of our usual communities, Class Representatives will work to create a "master list" of key pain points and general bugs to present to the ESO Development Team.

Our aim is to be an un-biased and wide-reaching voice for all players, so the more contribution, the better. Feel free to invite your friends and join in!

Keep in mind that these Discords are meant to be places for SERIOUS FEEDBACK AND DISCUSSION ONLY, and each will be moderated accordingly.

Nightblade Discussion:
https://discord.gg/t2Xhnu6

Dragonknight Discussion:
https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8

Sorcerer Discussion:
https://discord.gg/vkKjCD

Templar Discussion:
https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7

Warden Discussion:
https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys

General Healing Discussion:
https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb

TONKS!
https://discord.gg/DRNYd39

We will inquire about having these server links posted in a more visible location once Gina is back in the office after the holiday weekend. For now, welcome to our new communities.

The sorc link appears to be broken

Gand fixed it! I edited the new link into the comment you quoted, and here it is as well: https://discord.gg/e3QkCS8

The others will be checking their discords to make sure the new link is up this evening.

DoctorESO

Eyro wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

It's worth saying again: the appropriate reaction to this new program is happiness, not sadness.

While I do think it is bad form to over react as some people seem to be doing. I would also say it is bad form to tell people how they are suppose to feel. That is what my meds are for.

Have you seen my name? "DoctorESO"? I am the doctor!

Rianai

Will there be discussions/feedback regarding gear and non-class related skills too? Because those things are important too when it comes to overall balance.

Hexys

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Hexys

We believe in you!! Help make MagSorcs a fun class to play again!

Thanks @Jsmalls , as you stated 'fun to play again' does that mean you aren't enjoying magsorc at this moment? why?

NightbladeMechanics

Rianai wrote: »

Will there be discussions/feedback regarding gear and non-class related skills too? Because those things are important too when it comes to overall balance.

I believe each discord has channels for gear sets and non-class topics as well. For example, I spent the better part of today talking about crouch stealth mechanics and stealth detection, risk versus reward with snipe, and the growing prevalence of oblivion damage in the nightblade discord.

I don't know how much ZOS intends to discuss issues with us which are external to the 5 classes. That hasn't been officially clarified. We will ask Gina when she's back at work on Tuesday. In my opinion, there are many facets to the game's balance located both in and outside of the classes, and they are all intertwined so tightly that it is impossible to have a conversation about game balance without addressing all of them. ZOS is implementing this Class Rep program in pursuit of game balance, so I assume any topic is fair game.

We will bring to ZOS any repeat concerns or major pain points which you guys bring to us, regardless of whether they are class issues or not, but like I said, they'll need to give us final say on whether those topics are up for discussion. We'll see on Tuesday.

Vaoh

Hexys wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Hexys

We believe in you!! Help make MagSorcs a fun class to play again!

Thanks Jsmalls , as you stated 'fun to play again' does that mean you aren't enjoying magsorc at this moment? why?

Although I can’t speak for Jsmalls I also feel Sorc is no longer fun to play anymore.

The reasoning? Their whole playstyle has changed from Sorc skills doing the work, aka Crystal Frags CC, to “cheesy” mechanics such as Rune Cage unblockable CC or a forced non-Sorc Destructive Touch being needed. It also increased the amount of forced skills on your skill bar, leading to far less build diversity. I could go on and on about how this has changed Sorc for the worse, especially in terms of enjoyment of the class. Mag Warden recently got the exact same type of nerf in Summerset, crippling their build diversity and taking away their only class CC (and in the Warden’s case, they’ve actually become the absolute #1 worst class now )

On top of this is the old issue of the Bolt Escape cost increase not being adjusted to match the sustain nerfs in Morrowind, leading to a much harsher stacking cost than what was originally intended. Would be nice to have this looked at. Oh and the momentum loss bugs related to Bolt Escape.... would be great to have those fixed as well, or the distance covered slightly increased to compensate.

That’s just a bit of the PvP-side of Sorc that I really dislike. The old, enjoyable playstyle is totally gone and has been replaced by a cookie cutter playstyle that no one wanted and is much worse for solo play yet possibly stronger in 1v1 and Xv1. Thinking back on it, the majority of changes made in the past year were all aimed at hurting solo players - that’s pretty much why no one is solo in Cyrodiil anymore to any good effect.

In the end, there is no way ZOS could make the correct decision here by themselves. The largest overarching issue of balancing in ESO is that ZOS **lacks a clear vision** for their classes in each role (both PvE and PvP). Without that, it’s impossible for them to balance stuff.

Just as an example, this is why Magblade in superior in PvE DPS rn - ZOS probably doesn’t even understand why it’s happening or just how much they bring to a raid vs something like a Magplar DPS (with skills like Jesus Beam that are a DPS loss). No class should be the best at everything, but that’s exactly what Magblade is as a DPS - free Major Expedition, Minor Beserk, but most importantly highest DPS, best sustain, and amazing offheals. Why the best of all worlds for one class? If they provide such nice offheals, why have the highest DPS too? ZOS tried to nerf Mag NB by increasing Strife cost but all it did was homogenize them a bit while changing nothing in raids. No one was happy about it. No buffs to other classes.There is no sense of balance and they think nerfing random stuff is the solution to all the problems.

Class Reps have a lot to report on and I just hope that ZOS is receptive and actually willing to change stuff.

Jsmalls

Hexys wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Hexys

We believe in you!! Help make MagSorcs a fun class to play again!

Thanks @Jsmalls , as you stated 'fun to play again' does that mean you aren't enjoying magsorc at this moment? why?

@Hexys

We used to be the most mobile magicka class by design. Forced into light armor with damage shield as our only means of defense. In a Cryodiil full of snares and roots with no cooldown, and the effectiveness of gap closers (I agree gap closers need to function as they are) and overall stamina mobility, our class mobility options aren't performing well.

That and we are all pigeonholed into the exact same bar setups with minimal variation available to us.

Although I have not experienced Summerset I fear MagSorcs were overturned (from what I hear on the forums). We all called for a change to Rune cage before it went live and our opinions were ignored. Now we have to fear debilitating nerfs because of too much unavoidable damage between curse and rune cage. Something we never asked for.

I'm short on time, but I'm looking forward to a post in the forums to discuss the class with you!

Joy_Division

Vaoh wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Hexys

We believe in you!! Help make MagSorcs a fun class to play again!

Thanks Jsmalls , as you stated 'fun to play again' does that mean you aren't enjoying magsorc at this moment? why?

Although I can’t speak for Jsmalls I also feel Sorc is no longer fun to play anymore.

The reasoning? Their whole playstyle has changed from Sorc skills doing the work, aka Crystal Frags CC, to “cheesy” mechanics such as Rune Cage unblockable CC or a forced non-Sorc Destructive Touch being needed. It also increased the amount of forced skills on your skill bar, leading to far less build diversity. I could go on and on about how this has changed Sorc for the worse, especially in terms of enjoyment of the class. Mag Warden recently got the exact same type of nerf in Summerset, crippling their build diversity and taking away their only class CC (and in the Warden’s case, they’ve actually become the absolute #1 worst class now )

On top of this is the old issue of the Bolt Escape cost increase not being adjusted to match the sustain nerfs in Morrowind, leading to a much harsher stacking cost than what was originally intended. Would be nice to have this looked at. Oh and the momentum loss bugs related to Bolt Escape.... would be great to have those fixed as well, or the distance covered slightly increased to compensate.

That’s just a bit of the PvP-side of Sorc that I really dislike. The old, enjoyable playstyle is totally gone and has been replaced by a cookie cutter playstyle that no one wanted and is much worse for solo play yet possibly stronger in 1v1 and Xv1. Thinking back on it, the majority of changes made in the past year were all aimed at hurting solo players - that’s pretty much why no one is solo in Cyrodiil anymore to any good effect.

In the end, there is no way ZOS could make the correct decision here by themselves. The largest overarching issue of balancing in ESO is that ZOS **lacks a clear vision** for their classes in each role (both PvE and PvP). Without that, it’s impossible for them to balance stuff.

Just as an example, this is why Magblade in superior in PvE DPS rn - ZOS probably doesn’t even understand why it’s happening or just how much they bring to a raid vs something like a Magplar DPS (with skills like Jesus Beam that are a DPS loss). No class should be the best at everything, but that’s exactly what Magblade is as a DPS - free Major Expedition, Minor Beserk, but most importantly highest DPS, best sustain, and amazing offheals. Why the best of all worlds for one class? If they provide such nice offheals, why have the highest DPS too? ZOS tried to nerf Mag NB by increasing Strife cost but all it did was homogenize them a bit while changing nothing in raids. No one was happy about it. No buffs to other classes.There is no sense of balance and they think nerfing random stuff is the solution to all the problems.

Class Reps have a lot to report on and I just hope that ZOS is receptive and actually willing to change stuff.

I think this sort of feedback is very valuable: it is explaining why something about the class is a pain point rather than trying to fix said problem. We were picked and this program is designed to identify problems, not fix them

damdamjel

Lets see which one of them can get these classes hit by the nerf gun Congrats guys

Waffennacht

Um... They're like all empty

templesus

I seriously hope someone in that list has played stamplar and stam dk in pvp as those classes are seriously underperforming. Stamplar in PvE isn't even performing at all because we are nonexistent endgame. Seriously seriously seriously needs addressing.

Thogard

Godspeed, class reps! You truly are the bravest of us.

I, for one, am really looking forward to blaming you for all future balance issues that you don’t actually have any power to fix.

It’ll be amazing. For me anyway. Probably won’t be for you. I’m going to @ you on every issue, even if the issue is really just my unresearched opinion rather than anything that actually warrants attention. I will also take it personally if you disagree with my opinions, and will perceive your stance all of the issues on which we disagree to be evidence of your betrayal of the community, the class, and the program.

I’m also assuming that any message I send will be immediately made top priority and that each of you will drop what you’re doing to respond to it. I look forward to you being continuously positive, polite, optimistic, and political in all of our conversations, despite the fact that in many of them I will aggressively be acting in the opposite manner. If any of you receive anything from ZOS - even a title or a mount or something - I will consider you sellouts.

I also expect all of you to let me kill you in PvP, and if you ever kill me I will assume that it’s becahse you have special stats or connections or abilities from ZOS.

It’ll be great for me. Such stoke

Joy_Division

^^
Get in line

_Ahala_

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Uhuh, I have bad feelings for magicka warden regarding pvp, knowing some of those guys and their (lacking) understanding/opinion of the class.

Yeah, Masel seems to be purely PvE, can't find anyone on that list that is excelling at magwarden PvP.

I play magden, my friend and the officer of Legend, Lyser, is probably the most active PvP magden player on NA, and the Legend Discord contains several other passionate magden players who discuss it all the time. Magden doesn't have as many players as other classes, but the feedback of those loyal and learned in the class will be heard.

This brings me hope... I will most certainly be active in the warden discord channel just as I am in Legend’s warden sub channel

Xuhora

Congratulations to all Chosen Classreps!

May I ask how many of you are able to translate the desicions into the german Forum? If @Checkmath is the Checkmath i know, he is certainly fluent in German and Swiss-German, as well as @Alcast but how about the others? Is there any intent of including the German-Part of the Forum into this Program?
Im planing to inform in the German-Forums, thats why i ask.

Looking forward to that Class-Rep-Programm, i think you guys will do a great Job!

Liofa

Xuhora wrote: »

Congratulations to all Chosen Classreps!

May I ask how many of you are able to translate the desicions into the german Forum? If @Checkmath is the Checkmath i know, he is certainly fluent in German and Swiss-German, as well as @Alcast but how about the others? Is there any intent of including the German-Part of the Forum into this Program?
Im planing to inform in the German-Forums, thats why i ask.

Looking forward to that Class-Rep-Programm, i think you guys will do a great Job!

Hello! Gina said that they will be publishing notes after every meeting. I am just assuming that like normal patch notes, Kai (or someone else) will publish them in German as well. I don't have any real info but that's how it usually goes for all other patch notes ^^

Checkmath

once again a small update for all: the discord channels all are growing with a lot of goof feedback. we even made a lot of specific channels to make discussions easier to follow up. hopefully we will see much more of your feedback soon.

@Xuhora, we welcome all german speaking players too in our discord channels and are grateful for every feedback. if your english isnt as good and you rather want to hand in some feedback in german, i can translate that surely. if we get the time for doing so, we will also make up a german list with all the conclusions. if i get the time and support, i can do that myself and post that all three months into the german forum.

Qbiken

I hope this isn´t off-topic but a question to the class-representatives:

Would it be possible to open up a discord for the discussion of werewolfs (with the same intention as the other discord-channels)

While not being a class by definition, it´s kind of a "sub-class" in my opinion (the amount of work and practice to make them work in PvP and PvE makes them close to a "class") Werewolfs have been "plagued" by numerous bugs that´s been taking very long time to fix (and some are still not addressed) and have received very little attention from ZOS over the years.

Just throwing the question out if there´re any room/possibilities for you guys to pass down this kind of feedback to the developer-team as well?

Xuhora

@Liofa yeah well.. thats a thing with patchnotes and stuff... Not all Patchnotes are beeing translated... as well as not all official Infos are announced in the German forums. As far as i know, there was no announcement on the other forum about the class-rep Programm.

Its no problem for me, since i manage english pretty well, but i know from a lot of guildmates that cannot understand english for the sake of it, and i dont want to blame them, i just wanted to forward that to you guys, so one of you or some of you could be a translator into the german part of the forum.

SpiderCultist

I guess @KenaPKK will be our representative for us, magicka NBs

you better do a job or we will get you merciless resolved!

Checkmath

@Qbiken
about the werewolf discord, this is something we will consider open later on, since it goes into the same direction as weapon skill lines. they are all available for everyone and our main focus for the moment are the classes. the program only started a few days ago and we still didnt talk much with the devs what exactly will fall into our responsibility. we surely will bring that topic to the table as soon as we have gina back from her weekend.

Aztlan

Remember the werewolves!