ESO Class Reps

Liofa

Vaoh wrote: »

So I know it’s early into the process for Class Reps, but the organization of Discords worrying me. I’m seeing duplicate areas to give feedback.

For example, there is a “Warden” discord, and within it there is a Tank section. However there is also a “Tank” discord, with a Warden section. Due to this not everything is consolidated into one place for viewing, and kind of disincentivizes posting as well.

It also causes another issue entirely with class balance. In the class-based discords people tend to make balance suggestions based on the whole class - this is good. In the role-specific discords the focus is on a specific role, sometimes disregarding his a change may affect another role.

I’d suggest removing the role-specific discords because the same categories are already located in each individual class-based discord.

Hello! Each Discord server was created by a different Class Rep so yeah, it can be a bit confusing. The important thing is, if you want to give feedback on Warden Tank, you can write it on Warden Discord's Tank channel or Tank Discord's Warden channel. It will be read by me personally as it is my expertise in the team.

I know Discord servers look chaotic and all but every feedback you provide is being noted and will be discussed. Discords are nothing official work of ZOS, just by us trying to get feedback in certain categories as forums do not have that. For example, as a Class Rep who is more familiar with PvE Tanking than anything else, I'll give most of my attention to tank channels in all Discords. So again, do not worry that it looks chaotic and/or messy. As long as you give feedback/suggestions, bug reports etc. they will be read and noted for further discussion. Believe me, this is so much easier for us than reading through forums that have no categorization.

We decided that Discords are a better environment for getting feedback because we are admins/mods there and can pin messages, tag people and moderate properly as well as voice communication.

Hopefully this will answer your questions and concerns

bloodthirstyvampire

So your @Liofa I guess i'll try your YouTube channel

anitajoneb17_ESO

Liofa wrote: »

Hopefully this will answer your questions and concerns

Not really, no.
It sounds like "don't worry, post anywhere, we'll read it anyway".

If things aren't properly organized from the contributor's point of view, many people will not contribute and the contributions of those who do will be of lesser quality. Not only spread all over the place, but inherently of lesser quality, with a lot of redundancies.

There are at least 3 main axes of categorization in any ESO-discussion : classes, roles, PVE/PVP. With further differentiations such as casual/competitive, werewolves/vampires, solo play/group play, etc.

Choose one axe (probably "classes", since you're "class-reps") and don't cross-categorize all over : make a logical, clear tree. From the contributor's point of view.

As to the "control/monitoring" tools you have when running your own space, I bet you'll soon realize that the amount of work it will require from you isn't worth the power it gives you.

Anyway, I'm giving advice that wasn't asked for, which in itself is against my own advice :-) so I'll stop there. Just don't stick to that model for the sake of it and consider adjusting when the time comes.

xynode

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re excited to let everyone know we’re ready to announce the members of the ESO Class Representative Program! Everyone in the program has played ESO for years, and has hundreds, if not over a thousand days played. While some of these players may specialize in one or two classes in particular, everyone has max level characters in every class and is experienced in both PvP and PvE. It was a difficult decision to make and there were many qualified players, but we’re very thrilled to have these 12 players kicking off this new program.

After combing through almost 170 player nominations, we’d like to present the new ESO Class Representatives:

• Alcast
• Checkmath
• FearTurbo
• GandTheImpaler
• Hexys
• JoyDivision
• KenaPK
• Liofa
• Masel92
• Quantum_V
• Stileanima
• Tasear

As a reminder, the class reps will be collating top concerns for every class to present to the Dev Team; they will not be making game-altering decisions, but they will make sure your voice is heard. After each quarterly meeting, the plan will be to publish notes so everyone can see what was discussed, and you can ask questions to the group. We’re tentatively scheduling the first meeting around the middle of June.

Please join us in congratulating and welcoming this group to the program!

Congratulations everyone! :)

Torbschka

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Hopefully this will answer your questions and concerns

Not really, no.
It sounds like "don't worry, post anywhere, we'll read it anyway".

If things aren't properly organized from the contributor's point of view, many people will not contribute and the contributions of those who do will be of lesser quality. Not only spread all over the place, but inherently of lesser quality, with a lot of redundancies.

There are at least 3 main axes of categorization in any ESO-discussion : classes, roles, PVE/PVP. With further differentiations such as casual/competitive, werewolves/vampires, solo play/group play, etc.

Choose one axe (probably "classes", since you're "class-reps") and don't cross-categorize all over : make a logical, clear tree. From the contributor's point of view.

As to the "control/monitoring" tools you have when running your own space, I bet you'll soon realize that the amount of work it will require from you isn't worth the power it gives you.

Anyway, I'm giving advice that wasn't asked for, which in itself is against my own advice :-) so I'll stop there. Just don't stick to that model for the sake of it and consider adjusting when the time comes.

i want to agree here, u just behave here like ZOS did before (take this with a grain of falt ofc).

Its as @anitajoneb17_ESO said, we should just post in not organized and moderated channels but should believe in you, that you filter the best out of it. That might work, but it is the same what ZOS do, the classic "dont worry, even if we dont respond at all, we are listening..." and u all know how this did end right?

I feel really very very unhappy with the current situation about how things are organized and how you guys have presence at all. I wont post there anymore, since as it was already stated, I dont feel "heard" at all.

Liofa

Torbschka wrote: »

i want to agree here, u just behave here like ZOS did before (take this with a grain of falt ofc).

Its as @anitajoneb17_ESO said, we should just post in not organized and moderated channels but should believe in you, that you filter the best out of it. That might work, but it is the same what ZOS do, the classic "dont worry, even if we dont respond at all, we are listening..." and u all know how this did end right?

I feel really very very unhappy with the current situation about how things are organized and how you guys have presence at all. I wont post there anymore, since as it was already stated, I dont feel "heard" at all.

I am currently looking at a list of feedbacks I got from all Discords in terms of PvE Tanking. It is a long one I had to pick between all the memes, arguments, discussions etc. Others are doing the same but within their area of expertise. You might not feel heard but you will see the results when the notes of what was discussed during the Dev meeting. Of course, it will only include the most important issues, pain points as Gina says, so there will always be an amount of playerbase whose problems were not included because their problems weren't as gamebreaking as others. Keep in mind that we are not the ones deciding on what is a pain point and what is not. We decide on the amount of feedback we take on it. If there are a lot of comments on one topic, it is an important thing for the community and will be noted as a priority.

When notes are up after the meeting, you'll see that we give our most attention the the pain points and did listen to feedback from those chaotic Discords and actually worked on them.

Again, it's only been like 3 days since we were chosen for this project. Give it some time. It is quite normal for things to be somewhat chaotic. Imagine all those people piling up on one place to say everything they had in mind. It is overwhelming but we are still working through it. Hopefully it will calm down over time and we will have time to tidy it up a bit.

Keep in mind, we are the same people who just plays this game like you do. We felt unheard after giving so many feedback to ZOS just to see nothing has been done about it as well. Now, the rest is up to you. If you want to give feedback, do so knowing that we are noting them. If you don't want to, your concerns will not even be there for someone to listen at all. I prefer the first option ^^

Checkmath

Hey folks.
It may seem like its unorganized, but it isnt for us reps. For the moment its the best way to gather fast and good feedback, but we are always looking out for more efficient ways. I can guarantee, that everything written in those discords is read by at least one rep. If we would answer to every comment, that would triple our work. I myself am very active in the templar discord and i read messages all day long to really read everything. We are only humans too, so please be a bit more patient with they way we do it at the moment. We certainly want to improve our system, but you guys need to stay confident too. This all wont work without you, so please dont get discouraged with the structure of our system. It will change, but we also need first to find a way how this works best for all of us. We started only a few days ago, so give us more time please.

Taleof2Cities

Liofa wrote: »

I am currently looking at a list of feedbacks I got from all Discords in terms of PvE Tanking. It is a long one I had to pick between all the memes, arguments, discussions etc. ^^

Wow, players are already cluttering Discord with memes and unrelated feedback?

Thanks for not taking this seriously, folks.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Wow, players are already cluttering Discord with memes and unrelated feedback?

Joy_Division

@anitajoneb17_ESO

You don't have to use the Discords. The Discords that were set up are just one means of gathering feedback, not the means of gathering feedback. They were setup because a lot of gamers use them and are familiar with them, that's all. If you feel uncomfortable with the format or that you'd like to send something more substantive that does not lend itself well to discord, you could for instance use the forums. Heck, you could send me a message/mail.

Zer0oo

Where is the role play discord? How many role player are in the representatives? (Alcast and who else?)

Joke aside I wish all player in the program good luck (especial since the topic will attract a lot of drama and QQ). And I already trained to yell their names if I don't agree with the buff/nerf in the next patch. It gets boring with time to yell always the same Dev name.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

You don't have to use the Discords. The Discords that were set up are just one means of gathering feedback, not the means of gathering feedback. They were setup because a lot of gamers use them and are familiar with them, that's all. If you feel uncomfortable with the format or that you'd like to send something more substantive that does not lend itself well to discord, you could for instance use the forums. Heck, you could send me a message/mail.

Thanks Joy, that's good to know. I may use those alternatives then because there are a few "balance" concerns I'd like to explain. I'm usually not the type of person who plays special snowflake and uses a separate channel when there's already a designated one, but since you invite me to do so, I will.

Lieblingsjunge

Now I'm putting my faith in @Joy_Division to fix templar that's been broken(in more ways than 5) since ages. \o/
Make templar great again.

Feanor

The Sorc discord is nice so far. Of course you can't totally avoid off topic posts, but everyone is on the same page more or less. I like the discussion, lots of view points.

Joy_Division

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Now I'm putting my faith in @Joy_Division to fix templar that's been broken(in more ways than 5) since ages. \o/
Make templar great again.

Help me out by telling us not only what your pain point are, but why they are pain points

Torbschka

Sadly there is no joy in magden discord lol

Vaoh

Torbschka wrote: »

Sadly there is no joy in magden discord lol

There’s just not much to say lol. Most people don’t even know what to do at this point with what is currently provided to Wardens, given ZOS’s direction balance-wise in Summerset.

We all want total reworks of Winter’s Embrace and select skills of the other skill lines lol. At least that’s what I’ve gathered - nearly every suggestion asks for skills to totally change in functionality.

GoldenDragonElite

This is absolutely fantastic. I hope to see their decisions in their meetings be taken 100% seriously, and that ZOS will trust in them to make these decisions. After all, the community knows best in how to make the game a more enjoyable experience. I'm super excited for the future of the game now with some of the best PvE, and PvPers that I know. Good job ZOS, this was a great move.

Joy_Division

Torbschka wrote: »

Sadly there is no joy in magden discord lol

I pop in now and then

EvilAutoTech

Joy_Division wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Sadly there is no joy in magden discord lol

I pop in now and then

So sometimes there is Joy but there is never any joy?

Minno

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

I am currently looking at a list of feedbacks I got from all Discords in terms of PvE Tanking. It is a long one I had to pick between all the memes, arguments, discussions etc. ^^

Wow, players are already cluttering Discord with memes and unrelated feedback?

Thanks for not taking this seriously, folks.

"Wherever there is objective truth, there is satire"

JinMori

I personally don;t think this will change much, because only 10 % at max of the feedback is actually useful, most people don;t really understand much about how the game works, and at the end of the day, zos is the one making the decisions, and money.

But aside from that, some people actually think this will make things worse? Why exactly, do you think it would be better to listen to the feedback, of know nothings? Look, just like how in reality is better to leave leadership to someone who knows how to lead..... it;s better to leave the balancing in the hands of those who don't know wtf they are talking about, not to the masses, who know absolutely nothing, and think they are right just because they have the majority.

Know that this is not me saying that you don't have a right to say your wrong conclusions, it's just that if there is someone who should take charge, i want that someone to know what they are talking about, so they don't listen, to people who don;t have a single iota of an idea what they are talking about.

NightbladeMechanics

Vaoh wrote: »

So I know it’s early into the process for Class Reps, but the organization of Discords worrying me. I’m seeing duplicate areas to give feedback.

For example, there is a “Warden” discord, and within it there is a Tank section. However there is also a “Tank” discord, with a Warden section. Due to this not everything is consolidated into one place for viewing, and kind of disincentivizes posting as well.

It also causes another issue entirely with class balance. In the class-based discords people tend to make balance suggestions based on the whole class - this is good. In the role-specific discords the focus is on a specific role, sometimes disregarding his a change may affect another role.

I’d suggest removing the role-specific discords because the same categories are already located in each individual class-based discord.

Duplicate areas offer separate places to discuss different issues within or facets of the same topic. This way, conversations do not overlap or crowd each other out, and in the end more people are able to talk at once.

One point of having experienced players as class reps is that we will be able to interpret the repercussions of a suggestion across all facets of the game. Do not worry about what players suggest in these discords. We will take all complaints and suggestions into account with the big picture in mind as we refine the feedback in the coming days.

We have been hard at work reading, responding to, and taking notes from every discussion in the discords since we created them. We have a meeting scheduled tomorrow to meet internally in order to share our findings, get everyone on the same page, and select our main pain points to discuss with ZOS. We have a meeting scheduled next week to meet with Gina to begin giving our feedback and to discuss how the group will function going forward.

Think of it as information funneling up the roots of a tree. Each root tip is an individual player in the community sharing his feelings, impressions, and opinions about the game. The discords are structured so that very many conversations can be occurring simultaneously to allow all of these roots to find soil. Then, the class reps collect and pull the information up the roots of the tree, coalescing them together bit by bit until we have all of the most important information in one place to pass easily to ZOS within the trunk of the tree. Finally, the devs make their decisions and disseminate information and orders out the branches of the tree to ZOS employees to put ideas into action.

Just because the discords are a large infrastructure of channels and topics and discussions happening simultaneously does not mean that we are not watching every single nook and cranny for valuable feedback.

And just because discords exist does not mean we do not intend to open forum posts for gathering feedback as well. We just decided together to wait until Gina was back in the office to begin planning those threads because she's working on some forum details for us. We plan to begin making forum threads in the next couple of days, we will watch them over next weekend (by which time the discords will slow down a bit), and then we will have time to fuse any newly observed pain points into our feedback for our meeting with ZOS next week.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

I am currently looking at a list of feedbacks I got from all Discords in terms of PvE Tanking. It is a long one I had to pick between all the memes, arguments, discussions etc. ^^

Wow, players are already cluttering Discord with memes and unrelated feedback?

Thanks for not taking this seriously, folks.

It's the internet and a generally young demographic which we are speaking to. Yes, there will be memes and joking among the serious discussion. That's part of bonding with new people, and that's part of building a lasting and strong community in each discord. Try not to take the meming too seriously. You might get offended!

NightbladeMechanics

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

So I know it’s early into the process for Class Reps, but the organization of Discords worrying me. I’m seeing duplicate areas to give feedback.

For example, there is a “Warden” discord, and within it there is a Tank section. However there is also a “Tank” discord, with a Warden section. Due to this not everything is consolidated into one place for viewing, and kind of disincentivizes posting as well.

It also causes another issue entirely with class balance. In the class-based discords people tend to make balance suggestions based on the whole class - this is good. In the role-specific discords the focus is on a specific role, sometimes disregarding his a change may affect another role.

I’d suggest removing the role-specific discords because the same categories are already located in each individual class-based discord.

Agreed.
They said the Discords were meant to organize better, and they'll most probably very soon reckon that it does more worse than better in that regard.
I suppose nothing is set in stone and experience will make them adjust.

The discords have been an absolute godsend for communicating with the community. My nightblade one is the largest and most active, having topped 400 active members earlier this evening. We have had countless hours of intelligent and thoughtful discussion going alongside each other simultaneously throughout every discord ever since we created them, and we have accumulated a huge amount of feedback to organize and refine.

Look for forum posts coming in the next couple of days.

Via which other venues would you guys like to reach out to us? We have people mailing us in game, pming us in game and discord, messaging us on the forums, and tagging us in forum posts already. They're all available, and they're all familiar. Take your pick.

NightbladeMechanics

JinMori wrote: »

I personally don;t think this will change much, because only 10 % at max of the feedback is actually useful, most people don;t really understand much about how the game works, and at the end of the day, zos is the one making the decisions, and money.

But aside from that, some people actually think this will make things worse? Why exactly, do you think it would be better to listen to the feedback, of know nothings? Look, just like how in reality is better to leave leadership to someone who knows how to lead..... it;s better to leave the balancing in the hands of those who don't know wtf they are talking about, not to the masses, who know absolutely nothing, and think they are right just because they have the majority.

Know that this is not me saying that you don't have a right to say your wrong conclusions, it's just that if there is someone who should take charge, i want that someone to know what they are talking about, so they don't listen, to people who don;t have a single iota of an idea what they are talking about.

You appear to understand leadership. Good. Hopefully others will come to understand as well.

I hope to ease your cautious pessimism in the coming months. We understand that a large chunk of the feedback which we will receive won't be immediately useful -- or may be outright bad -- but that is why we were selected for this group. We know the game backwards and forwards, are prudent enough to judge the big picture repercussions of each suggestion, are compassionate enough to ignore our personal biases, and are willing to do the legwork to sort out the wheat from the chaff. ZOS wants help identifying bugs and the playerbase's general feelings about each class. Let's open the floodgates to let the playerbase scream every complaint and frustration it's ever had with the game, and we'll listen to it all, filter and organize it, and give the useful bits to ZOS to act upon.

As for whether this will change much necessarily -- well, that depends on if and how exactly ZOS chooses to act on our feedback. We are determined to work hard to do this the right way. I've been pleasantly surprised and impressed with each member's disposition so far. Everyone seems to want the greater good for the game and the community, so I don't think you need to worry. Our feedback will be of quality. Let's just hope ZOS actually does something with it. Gina and Rich have appeared genuinely eager to get talking!

Dredlord

Liofa wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Is there a templar discord?

You can join one of them. You will find never expiring links with unlimited use to other servers in one of the text channels

On the same page as the devs as far as templars go I see...

Use a different class discord, there should be a workaround in there...lol

RGvolterra

Who will be representing Hircine’s children interests since the children of Molag bal has had grand class development long ago? Great list though thought I was going to come across Gilliam name as well

NightbladeMechanics

RGvolterra wrote: »

Who will be representing Hircine’s children interests since the children of Molag bal has had grand class development long ago? Great list though thought I was going to come across Gilliam name as well

None of us “mains” werewolf necessarily, but many of us have played it. I’m currently administering over the werewolf feedback discord, linked below, and gathering feedback from some very passionate and knowledgeable long-time werewolf players in there and in game. Join the discussion, and be heard!

https://discord.gg/pGYr3c8

Oh, also, Gilliam declined to participate in the rep group for personal reasons. He’s still around, though, and will definitely be advising us closely as we do our work.

ATomiX96

who is the representative for hybrid nightblade?

f047ys3v3n

Some good names on that list. Congrats guys n gals and thank you for your service.