WW LA (Normalized) ... WW Feedback Thread

Thraben

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

You think now that bound armament is reworked, the skill can be slotted as a WW and the 8% max stam can be active ? I haven't tested, but it's definitively worth testing.

It was never possible to slot any ability other than a werewolf ability on a werewolf bar and this has not changed.

That's interesting. I always assumed that if you had it slotted on the same bar as your WW ultimate, the buff would carry over when you transformed to WW. Bummer if it doesn't.

The Warrior Guild skills slotted on your inactive werewolf bar buff you, though, or at least heave been doing so for 3 years.

Qbiken

Thraben wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

You think now that bound armament is reworked, the skill can be slotted as a WW and the 8% max stam can be active ? I haven't tested, but it's definitively worth testing.

It was never possible to slot any ability other than a werewolf ability on a werewolf bar and this has not changed.

That's interesting. I always assumed that if you had it slotted on the same bar as your WW ultimate, the buff would carry over when you transformed to WW. Bummer if it doesn't.

The Warrior Guild skills slotted on your inective werewolf bar buff you, though, or at least heave been doing so for 3 years.

They don´t, tested it quite recently.

KwarcPL

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Werewolf was always ridiculously overpowered.

Maybe, but for me as a tank, they have no use...

Avran_Sylt

@Aznox

Right, gotta do some more testing today.

jediprime74

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Aznox

Right, gotta do some more testing today.

Thank you for the work you put into this, on behalf of all console players, we couldn't do what you do so your efforts are greatly appreciated!

Ertthewolf

Qbiken wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

You think now that bound armament is reworked, the skill can be slotted as a WW and the 8% max stam can be active ? I haven't tested, but it's definitively worth testing.

It was never possible to slot any ability other than a werewolf ability on a werewolf bar and this has not changed.

That's interesting. I always assumed that if you had it slotted on the same bar as your WW ultimate, the buff would carry over when you transformed to WW. Bummer if it doesn't.

There was an old bug that used to work that way. If you had Fighter´s guild abilities slotted on your WW-bar the extra weapon damage from the FG´s passive would carry over to WW-form. Not sure when it got fixed but it doesn´t work anymore :P



Thank you @Avran_Sylt and @Aznox for the further testing. But the fact still remains that werewolfs does not benefit the same way non-werewolfs benefit from the new changes to light and heavy attacks (the lack of consistency bothers me).From what I could see from Aznox´s screenshots WW`s do less damage with LA/HA compared to live. I hope the developers sees the work you (and everyone else) has done, at least these threads shows that there is an interest in werewolfs still

And when Bonepirate get its bugs fixed it might become a very viable option (on live I´m not a huge fan of BP on werewolf).

@Qbiken it's not entirely fixed. Having a full bar of Fighters Guild skills gives my werewolf 30 more weapon damage when transformed lol. I tested when a fellow werewolf told me it buffed him. Not worth gimping my Dk over.

Avran_Sylt

Outdated

@Aznox

I'm still getting near what I got before on the PTS. Bit more refined:

~61.559% Weapon Damage conversion.
~5.79% Stamina conversion.

This is for Non-Crit light attacks. PTS char with absolutely no added CP, Racials, class passives, etc.

I might test all CP modifiers at some point to make sure they're working correctly, but that will take a longer amount of time.

Chrlynsch

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Aznox

I'm still getting near what I got before on the PTS. Bit more refined:

~61.559% Weapon Damage conversion.
~5.79% Stamina conversion.

This is for Non-Crit light attacks. PTS char with absolutely no added CP, Racials, class passives, etc.

I might test all CP modifiers at some point to make sure they're working correctly, but that will take a longer amount of time.

You are doing Hircine's work.

Avran_Sylt

@Aznox

Erm.. So you're right.
Turns out that not writing down every step, led to me making a basic algebraic mistake.
(Divide product by 0.638 to get raw damage, don't multiply by 1.362 (since you just make a new product))

The Values I'm getting now (PTS) are:
~70.8% WD Conversion
~0.0667% Stamina Conversion

Looking at your PTS Crit:
48859 Stam
4607 + (640) = 5,247 WD
crit bonus (0.59)
physical weapon expert CP (0.28)
master at arms CP (0.17)
mighty CP (0.08)
11029 Crit

48859 * 0.0667 = 3,258
5,247 * 0.0667 = 3,714
3,714 + 3,258 = 6,972
6,972 * 1.53 * 1.59 * 0.638 = 10,820 (More in Line - I wonder if CP actually takes decimals into consideration)

I'll have to go back on Live and check out what the values actually are again.

Aznox

I'm a bit too tired for math now but :
- as far as i know CP are rounded down like +28.34% -> +28%
- i have 1654 physical penetration during the test
will look again tomorrow

Ritter

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

Avran_Sylt

@Ritter

That would be the increased Stamina scaling at work.

Ritter

@Avran_Sylt

I mean... sweet! But, last I heard we were barely ahead of live and this indicates that we are WAY ahead of live.

Gina did say 'significant buff' and this would definitely fit that criteria.

Need more data! Hope to test again tomorrow with some gear.

Aznox

Please read the thread, it's all explained, you need to test with a real build and all buff otherwise it makes no sense

RouDeR

Ritter wrote: »

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

If priviously 3000 weapon damage would add 3000 damage to your light attack , now with summerset 3000 wpd will add only 1800 damage to your loght attack . However they compansate the dmg loss with better stamina scalling.

Qbiken

RouDeR wrote: »

Ritter wrote: »

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

If priviously 3000 weapon damage would add 3000 damage to your light attack , now with summerset 3000 wpd will add only 1800 damage to your loght attack . However they compansate the dmg loss with better stamina scalling.

Which is a damage loss in general that doesn't go in line with the changes to non werewolfs.like these changes was supposed to be a damage buff (which it is to certain builds), but instead it's an overall nerf. Will non werewolfs also get their spell and weapon damage scaling removed from the damage calculations? Unless that is happening ZOS needs to fix their coding, change the calculation of the LA/HA or severely buff WW'S light and.heavy attacks even more.

jediprime74

Qbiken wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

Ritter wrote: »

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

If priviously 3000 weapon damage would add 3000 damage to your light attack , now with summerset 3000 wpd will add only 1800 damage to your loght attack . However they compansate the dmg loss with better stamina scalling.

Which is a damage loss in general that doesn't go in line with the changes to non werewolfs.like these changes was supposed to be a damage buff (which it is to certain builds), but instead it's an overall nerf. Will non werewolfs also get their spell and weapon damage scaling removed from the damage calculations? Unless that is happening ZOS needs to fix their coding, change the calculation of the LA/HA or severely buff WW'S light and.heavy attacks even more.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Any possibility we can get an update on this scaling issue?

Avran_Sylt

@jediprime74

It's not technically an issue.

And really, the WW class needs a major overhaul at some point. Skill costs and the utility provided by each skill, as well as the sets available to it.

This isn't something within current scope.

The bandage comes out as a net buff for sustain and tanky builds, with edge cases only slightly lowering damage.

I imagine it will stay this way, and eventually be re-balanced around the current scaling. Unless somehow WW skyrockets in popularity.

jediprime74

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@jediprime74

It's not technically an issue.

And really, the WW class needs a major overhaul at some point. Skill costs and the utility provided by each skill, as well as the sets available to it.

This isn't something within current scope.

The bandage comes out as a net buff for sustain and tanky builds, with edge cases only slightly lowering damage.

I imagine it will stay this way, and eventually be re-balanced around the current scaling. Unless somehow WW skyrockets in popularity.

Everything you say may well be true, but the selfish part of me says 'this is a nerf to my WW build, which stacks WD' and I prefer not to be nerfed when promised a significant buff. I am sure I am not alone in this, and I while I agree the WW needs a complete overhaul to make it more viable (anecdotal evidence is 8 in 10 players in PvP run vampire for passives), I don't want to simply remain quiet while WW is rendered somewhat less viable as an alternative to non-WW builds. I could go on, but I have an appointment, can expound further later today.

Aznox

@Qbiken :
"The new scaling is problematic"
"Werewolf does not need an overhaul"

@Avran_Sylt :
"The new scaling is not problematic"
"Werewolf does need an overhaul"

@jediprime74 :
"The new scaling is problematic"
"Werewolf does need an overhaul"

allow me to complete the circle of opinion

@Aznox :
"The new scaling is not problematic"
"Werewolf does not need an overhaul"

Qbiken

Aznox wrote: »

@Qbiken :
"The new scaling is problematic"
"Werewolf does not need an overhaul"

@Avran_Sylt :
"The new scaling is not problematic"
"Werewolf does need an overhaul"

@jediprime74 :
"The new scaling is problematic"
"Werewolf does need an overhaul"

allow me to complete the circle of opinion

@Aznox :
"The new scaling is not problematic"
"Werewolf does not need an overhaul"

/thread

Gave me a good laugh

Avran_Sylt

@Aznox

Lel.

Perhaps someone should become a community ambassador for WW's. Figure out what is missing/ what's a problem.

Though I will add that while the current WW scaling isn't technically an issue, from a code perspective, from a balance perspective, the added stamina scaling makes tankier WWs deadlier, which might not be the best thing.

Aznox

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

the added stamina scaling makes tankier WWs deadlier, which might not be the best thing.

I don't see a correlation between "higher max stamina" and "tankier".

With the new scaling, i could swap Weapon Damage for Max Stamina to get a larger pool and so a longer burst, in exchange for a very small drop in damage (old scaling was a big drop in damage and thus not viable).

But doing so would not make me "tankier"

Avran_Sylt

@Aznox

As well as more dodge time from roll-dodge and damage reduction from block. There is an argument to be made that that is skill dependent and as such less reliable.

Wuuffyy

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Aznox

Lel.

Perhaps someone should become a community ambassador for WW's. Figure out what is missing/ what's a problem.

Though I will add that while the current WW scaling isn't technically an issue, from a code perspective, from a balance perspective, the added stamina scaling makes tankier WWs deadlier, which might not be the best thing.

Me.

Aznox

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Aznox

As well as more dodge time from roll-dodge and damage reduction from block. There is an argument to be made that that is skill dependent and as such less reliable.

longer burst or* more dodge time or* more block.

switching to hulking draugr gets me 7k more max stamina, that's only 2 howl of agony, while one HA-on-offbalanced will get me 12k back.

in any fight longer than 15sec i think Weapon damage will still be superior. (not a big difference)

Avran_Sylt

@Aznox

Well, it will be an interesting update to WWs for sure.

Wuuffyy

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Aznox

Well, it will be an interesting update to WWs for sure.

No.

Wuuffyy

The heal needs to scale off max Stam and not spell and mag but still cost mag. After that idc because then everyone can use it without gimping movement speed, recovery, and damage.

And if you think that’s OP then tell me if you think breath of life which heals 2 ppl is Op.

Aznox

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

The heal needs to scale off max Stam and not spell and mag but still cost mag. After that idc because then everyone can use it without gimping movement speed, recovery, and damage.

That would be such a bad way to change werewolf ...

All it would do is remove all uniqueness about creating a werewolf build.

Any stamina setup could throw werewolf on top of their standard build and perform the same as someone who is dedicated to werewolf.

If you want to propose yourself as a werewolf ambassador, maybe start by looking like someone who likes to play it ?