PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Psijic Order Skill Line

Aedaryl

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.

I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.

On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.

This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.

Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.

Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.

But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.

Do you all not understand how that skill is used?

It fits the same role as funnel/forcepulse/reach with masterstaff.

It´s a spammable dmg ability. The dmg does not replace your lightattack. It gets added on top.

Lightattack + elemental weapon as an animationcancel is the same as lightattack + force pulse. Just that it deals more damage and is cheaper.

It comes at the cost of having to slot a different destruction staff ability - so it won´t replace these other spammables in every scenario. It´s an option all builds have now.
Especially sorc builds and of course stamina builds that use bow/dw/2h and wanted an isntant dmg ability.

To be fair, the tooltip of the stamina morph is still around 10-15% less than Surprise Attack (but more than Flying Blade).

I don't know if the magicka morph scales better or something, but I can't really see what would make it deal more damage than Force Pulse.

Suprise attack (and concealed weapon for that matter) scale better than other filler abilities. They´re a bad point of reference because they deal more damage than any comparable ability.

It´s easy why it deals more dmg than force pulse:
lvl1 elemental deals 9529 + 5124 / 5 = 10553dmg (with the orb passive factored in)
lvl4 pulse deals 9864 on the same build

If dmg increases with skilllevel difference will be even higher.

Granted it requires you to use the skill atleast 5 times and the passive projectile to not be dodged. Wtb skilllevel 4 for adequate comparison.

I personally think Force pulse and Imbue are balanced each other as a spammable.

Force pulse:

• Have a fire composent, deal more damage to vampire
• Benefit from the 10% penetration of destro passives
• Unreflectable
• Give you acces to ancient knowledge passive (8% more damage for fire)

Elemental Weapon:

• Isn't bind to a weapon
• Have a guaranteed elemenal status effect
• Can be reflected on a staff light attack
• Is cheaper by 405
• Give the block psijic passive and the damage passive

U have the choice, and it's good, none is BiS, both are competitive and depend on your overall build and playstyle

radiostar

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh and could a DK please screenshot the new healing Ash Cloud (+morph)?

kkravaritieb17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

@DDuke Can you post a screenshot of the meditate morph that gives more resources? And can you move when you cast meditate?

I posted it above (comment #72) & no, you can't move while casting (you can go into sneak though if you press crouch key & then cast it right after).

You only posted one of the morphs. Earlier you screenshoted twice channeled acceleration instead of the 1st morph of meditate. If you d be so kind as to add the 1st morph

DDuke

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

@DDuke Can you post a screenshot of the meditate morph that gives more resources? And can you move when you cast meditate?

I posted it above (comment #72) & no, you can't move while casting (you can go into sneak though if you press crouch key & then cast it right after).

You only posted one of the morphs. Earlier you screenshoted twice channeled acceleration instead of the 1st morph of meditate. If you d be so kind as to add the 1st morph

Also posted the other morph few comments above, but whatever :P

Here's both Meditate morphs (in one post):

HanzeeBokeem

DDuke wrote: »

Last quest seems to be bugged, it's not possible to unlock the ultimate at the moment.

@DDuke Any luck with the final quest yet? Josajeh just stands by the throne and you can't interact with her, anybody solved this or is it bugged?

DDuke

HanzeeBokeem wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Last quest seems to be bugged, it's not possible to unlock the ultimate at the moment.

@DDuke Any luck with the final quest yet? Josajeh just stands by the throne and you can't interact with her, anybody solved this or is it bugged?

Nope.

I gave up after I tried relogging in the room, exiting it and re-entering & abandoning the quest entirely and trying it again. Doesn't work.

Hopefully ZOS can fix it for the next PTS patch.

Avran_Sylt

Probably intentional, but Imbue Weapons breaks Cloak. However, not completely sure that's the intention.

Doctordarkspawn

Would anyone mind testing Meditate to see what interrupts it? Thank you.

I am desperate to know. Being interrupted with CC is fine and will balance out the skill, if it's interrupted on -anything-, that's useless.

ecru

Siliziumdioxid wrote: »

Perhaps it is the high latency but lightattack weaving with "elemental Weapon" works terrible. It would be nice if the skill gets a more fluent animation. (Actually i thought that this ability actually buffs the stats your next Light attack gets(like the vma weapon) unfortunately it doesn't

I'd really like this to be addressed. It seems to be as bad or worse than Strife. ZOS, please just make the ability use the animation of Force Pulse, which works fine, until you're able to implement an animation for the ability that isn't broken.

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

I guess from a lore standpoint it might seem odd, but from a gameplay stampoint there should probably be the same amount of incentive (or a bit less) for stamina players to want access to the skill line as there is for magicka players.

DDuke

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Would anyone mind testing Meditate to see what interrupts it? Thank you.

I am desperate to know. Being interrupted with CC is fine and will balance out the skill, if it's interrupted on -anything-, that's useless.

It works like any other cast/channel ability (that doesn't grant CC immunity, i.e. Soul Assault, Remembrance etc), interruptable by bash, CC & abilities like Crushing Shock or Venom Arrow.

Doctordarkspawn

DDuke wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Would anyone mind testing Meditate to see what interrupts it? Thank you.

I am desperate to know. Being interrupted with CC is fine and will balance out the skill, if it's interrupted on -anything-, that's useless.

It works like any other cast/channel ability (that doesn't grant CC immunity, i.e. Soul Assault, Remembrance etc), interruptable by bash, CC & abilities like Crushing Shock or Venom Arrow.

GOOOOOOOD.

*LAUGHS IN TANK*

sabresandiego_ESO

If you cloak, and then meditate, are you revealed from cloak?

sabresandiego_ESO

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

If you cloak, and then meditate, are you revealed from cloak?

Same question to the other channeled psijic order abilities.

DDuke

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

If you cloak, and then meditate, are you revealed from cloak?

Same question to the other channeled psijic order abilities.

Yes, all of them apart from Accelerate & its morphs break sneaking/cloak when cast.


Although with Meditate you can hit crouch, then start channeling the skill afterwards & you'll be meditating in sneak when the eye closes.

Dracane

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.

I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.

On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.

This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.

Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.

Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.

We shall see. At this point, I can't see it replacing force pulse for me. It seems to be an option, but not a high end choice.
Force pulse also is the only staff ability on my main bar. I would loose 8% direct damage.

NBrookus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Did you try out all of the abilities?

All except the ultimate, since the questline cannot be completed.

[*] Which abilities would you incorporate into your build?

Possibly none. (PVP perspective, usually mDK or templar).
Meditate is too slow to use in combat.
I really want Accelerate to work, but 3 seconds of expedition is pathetic and locking 9 seconds of expedition behind a channel makes it a slow skill. Not sure Minor Force is worth a skill slot on crowded bars. Gankers will love it.
The Time Stop morphs were fun, but if you are solo in pvp you need to CC someone to have a chance of the 4 second morph to work which makes the stun irrelevant, and the 1.5 second version is another channel. I am sure zergballs will use it a lot and it might be good for breaches.
Imbued Weapon... potentially useful. I think having a stam morph is really out of character.
Mend Wounds is pretty creative, but I don't play healers.

[*] Were you able to easily acquire and advance the skill line?

Yes/no. The quests to close the time rifts are painful. The follow the light ones are better. Although I cringe at the idea of repeating everything on 12 characters, in the end the amount of actual work for the skill line seems about right. It's really boring though and the story super predictable.

[*] What was your favorite ability and why?

Time Stop will be great if I ever grind up another character... round up mobs, stun, kill.

[*] Were you able to find the Psijic Portals?

none, but perhaps you have to complete the quest line?

[*] Do you have any other general feedback?

Great job on the Auger. One beef... after being told he lies all the time, he volunteers correct info to find the Time Breaches. Shouldn't he lie?

Seraphayel

Derra wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.

I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.

On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.

This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.

Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.

Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.

But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.

Do you all not understand how that skill is used?

It fits the same role as funnel/forcepulse/reach with masterstaff.

It´s a spammable dmg ability. The dmg does not replace your lightattack. It gets added on top.

Lightattack + elemental weapon as an animationcancel is the same as lightattack + force pulse. Just that it deals more damage and is cheaper.

It comes at the cost of having to slot a different destruction staff ability - so it won´t replace these other spammables in every scenario. It´s an option all builds have now.
Especially sorc builds and of course stamina builds that use bow/dw/2h and wanted an isntant dmg ability.

I understand how it should work but I am not convinced that it actually will be useful or used that much with the incredibly short window of 2s duration. I can see its use but not with that tiny time frame you have after activation. Sounds incredibly clunky in a game that is plagued by a lot of skill delays and lags and target mismatching for light attacks.

Seraphayel

radiostar wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh and could a DK please screenshot the new healing Ash Cloud (+morph)?

Thank you very much! Very interesting, it's a long duration ground based HoT. And with the new healer set it becomes even more interesting...

Seraphayel

Can somebody test and explain the animation for Mend Wounds + different weapons? How is the animation for the heavy attack heal with staff, 2h sword, bow etc? And how's the one for the light attack HoT you get?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh and could a DK please screenshot the new healing Ash Cloud (+morph)?

Thank you very much! Very interesting, it's a long duration ground based HoT. And with the new healer set it becomes even more interesting...

Have you tried extended ritual by chance? Cause this is just a weaker version of that.

Also, thank you @DDuke for posting all of the skills and morphs, not all hero's wear capes. The only skill I can see using on my toons is imbue weapons on my two-handed dps stamsorc, wrecking blow blows.

Elsterchen

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Derra

Aedaryl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.

I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.

On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.

This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.

Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.

Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.

But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.

Do you all not understand how that skill is used?

It fits the same role as funnel/forcepulse/reach with masterstaff.

It´s a spammable dmg ability. The dmg does not replace your lightattack. It gets added on top.

Lightattack + elemental weapon as an animationcancel is the same as lightattack + force pulse. Just that it deals more damage and is cheaper.

It comes at the cost of having to slot a different destruction staff ability - so it won´t replace these other spammables in every scenario. It´s an option all builds have now.
Especially sorc builds and of course stamina builds that use bow/dw/2h and wanted an isntant dmg ability.

To be fair, the tooltip of the stamina morph is still around 10-15% less than Surprise Attack (but more than Flying Blade).

I don't know if the magicka morph scales better or something, but I can't really see what would make it deal more damage than Force Pulse.

Suprise attack (and concealed weapon for that matter) scale better than other filler abilities. They´re a bad point of reference because they deal more damage than any comparable ability.

It´s easy why it deals more dmg than force pulse:
lvl1 elemental deals 9529 + 5124 / 5 = 10553dmg (with the orb passive factored in)
lvl4 pulse deals 9864 on the same build

If dmg increases with skilllevel difference will be even higher.

Granted it requires you to use the skill atleast 5 times and the passive projectile to not be dodged. Wtb skilllevel 4 for adequate comparison.

I personally think Force pulse and Imbue are balanced each other as a spammable.

Force pulse:

• Have a fire composent, deal more damage to vampire
• Benefit from the 10% penetration of destro passives
• Unreflectable
• Give you acces to ancient knowledge passive (8% more damage for fire)

Elemental Weapon:

• Isn't bind to a weapon
• Have a guaranteed elemenal status effect
• Can be reflected on a staff light attack
• Is cheaper by 405
• Give the block psijic passive and the damage passive

U have the choice, and it's good, none is BiS, both are competitive and depend on your overall build and playstyle

Except for pve where elemental weapon seems to clearly outperform pulse imo.
It also shines a different light on the funnel health nerf imo - as the cost increase now seems even more ridiculous @NyassaV

Derra

Seraphayel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.

I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.

On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.

This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.

Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.

Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.

But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.

Do you all not understand how that skill is used?

It fits the same role as funnel/forcepulse/reach with masterstaff.

It´s a spammable dmg ability. The dmg does not replace your lightattack. It gets added on top.

Lightattack + elemental weapon as an animationcancel is the same as lightattack + force pulse. Just that it deals more damage and is cheaper.

It comes at the cost of having to slot a different destruction staff ability - so it won´t replace these other spammables in every scenario. It´s an option all builds have now.
Especially sorc builds and of course stamina builds that use bow/dw/2h and wanted an isntant dmg ability.

I understand how it should work but I am not convinced that it actually will be useful or used that much with the incredibly short window of 2s duration. I can see its use but not with that tiny time frame you have after activation. Sounds incredibly clunky in a game that is plagued by a lot of skill delays and lags and target mismatching for light attacks.

For ranged builds: you can fire the lightattack then use the skill and the dmg gets applied to the lightattack already fired.
It´s 100% the same as weaving force pulse.

The 2s timewindow is a bonus that allows to layer additional burst - it´s not a dawback to the abilities usability because it´s irrelevant when used as a replacement for pulse/reach/funnel.
Granted you have to weave properly every time as missed lightattacks will cost you way more than with a classic filler.

Elsterchen

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

ToRelax

I think the speed buff Acceleration/Against Time could last for at least 4 seconds. It is workeable the way it is now, but just barely and for players not having access to major expedition on a skill otherwise.
Alternatively it could also reduce snares by 50% for 3 seconds or sth. Purging/Immunity would probably be too much compared to class based speed buffs.

Yamenstein

Seraphayel wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh and could a DK please screenshot the new healing Ash Cloud (+morph)?

Thank you very much! Very interesting, it's a long duration ground based HoT. And with the new healer set it becomes even more interesting...

Should probably discuss this in the DK thread

Enodoc

Not actually got that far yet, but the way the skill line is levelled seems like a bit of an obscure way to do it to me. A more logical situation would be for there to be considerably more rifts around Tamriel, and have them all available at all times, but you would still only need 9 (or less) to actually gain a rank. Then you could just find them as you're exploring, like the MG books, or you could use the maps to target a specific group if you wanted to.

profundidob16_ESO

I'm confused about this. I completed the main quest line up to the point where I received the quest, the map, retrieved the skull and now closed my first 2 time breaches succesfully BUT the skill line still does not unlock for me. Perhaps I need to close my first 9 before I finally receive the skillline ?

I just read that template's don't have the psijic skilline. I thought that was meant as in: "at character creation" but perhaps they meant: "even after doing the whole quest line" ??

Thraben

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Psijic Order Skill Line. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

[1] Did you try out all of the abilities? [2] Which abilities would you incorporate into your build? [3] Were you able to easily acquire and advance the skill line? [4] What was your favorite ability and why? [5] Were you able to find the Psijic Portals?

[6] If so, did you understand what types of loot you get from them? [7] Did they feel rewarding for the difficulty in finding them?

[8] Do you have any other general feedback?

1) No, not enough time for grinding
2) Time Stop, Inbue Weapons on Sorc; Mediate on Warden
3) I would have, if I hade the time
4) Mediate, as it makes Warden PvP support roles much more viable
5) Yes, easily
6) ehm.. no
7) not really
8) Mend wounds heals not enough.