Don't you think it's time to do something against Cloak & Stam(blades), ZOS?

ATomiX96

worship my mspaint skills

TarrNokk

I play a stamblade pvp and I am just an average on it. I can do quite a few kills on it and I can escape SOMETIMES.
But most of the time, cloak is useless as I get revealed in 90% every situation.
Real good stamblades have better success rates in cloaking but the vast majority is dead on sight.

Undefwun

The terms "L2P" and "Git Gud" have negative connotations, because of how they are used in a dismissive nature by a lot of people. The truth is though, that often they are not wrong.

I think many of the calls for nerfs (in general, not just this topic) are because people get frustrated by an ability they have problems countering. I have raged at my monitor a many a times.

I think people just hate to face the truth. You are the problem 99% percent of the time. Unless it's an actual programming bug, or you are actually a top tier player, leave your ego outside Cyro/BGs and just admit that you aren't that good and you need to learn to deal with what ever it is you are dying to.

The other thing I seen on this thread that made me laugh is "NBs are 50% or more of all players", BUT then same ppl say "why should I spec to counter for just one class/build". Well according to you that would be speccing to counter for more than half of the pvp population. Seems like a good reason, you can't have it both ways.

I play a Light Armour DW Magblade... so I've really got my work cut out for me. I've only been playing PvP seriously for a few months.
I am now delightfully average, but I am much better than I was before, but got a long way to go. My shade game is still pretty weak, but it's slowly getting better. I have no business calling for nerfs, I still have too much to learn.

Sure I can reset a fight, but other classes can reset fights. So do we get rid of BoL because it can undo all my damage? Streak has been nerfed so many times (and it's still hard to catch a good sorc), because people are salty. Lot of stam classes are just faster sprinters. Stam roller monkeys (not just stamblades) are hard to hit, that's annoying so nerf roll dodge?

Oh that nb cloaked and ran away. And? You didn't die, just carry on. I see sorcs streak, fine, enjoy your journey. To all those rock, tree and tower huggers, enjoy your laps, I am out, I am not participating in this non-sense.
Personally I don't run away usually, unless it's a numbers thing. 1 on 1, I won't learn anything if I run and yes I can almost perma cloak across the map if I tried.

Well this got way too long....

TL;DR
Unless you actually know the game inside out, calling for nerfs is most likely just frustration. Learn to play, but I mean that in positive way, you just haven't found a way yet.

Dudis

What if they just make it so you don't get the invisibility (but still the crit buff/minor protection depending on morph) for lets say 3 seconds after being the victim of a direct damage attack (not DoT) from another player.

Tooltip could be something like
- If you have not taken direct damage from another player in the last 3 seconds, gain invisibility for 3 seconds.

This would promote skillful play and positioning and would make Cloak less obnoxious to play against, while still being a very good ability, especially in combination with Shadow Image or perma-rolling.

Irylia

If streak cost increase stays then
-cloak cost increase or stops regen
-incap lose defile

To be honest major defile should only be on large stationary ults like nova/shackle and minor on reverb/snipe/item sets/incap

Either that or remove befoul

killingspreeb16_ESO

Dudis wrote: »

What if they just make it so you don't get the invisibility (but still the crit buff/minor protection depending on morph) for lets say 3 seconds after being the victim of a direct damage attack (not DoT) from another player.

Tooltip could be something like
- If you have not taken direct damage from another player in the last 3 seconds, gain invisibility for 3 seconds.

This would promote skillful play and positioning and would make Cloak less obnoxious to play against, while still being a very good ability, especially in combination with Shadow Image or perma-rolling.

One of the worst idea i ever read,make streak teleport only after 3 second and ofc no dmg taken too same BoL etc that how stupid it sound

Dudis

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

What if they just make it so you don't get the invisibility (but still the crit buff/minor protection depending on morph) for lets say 3 seconds after being the victim of a direct damage attack (not DoT) from another player.

Tooltip could be something like
- If you have not taken direct damage from another player in the last 3 seconds, gain invisibility for 3 seconds.

This would promote skillful play and positioning and would make Cloak less obnoxious to play against, while still being a very good ability, especially in combination with Shadow Image or perma-rolling.

One of the worst idea i ever read,make streak teleport only after 3 second and ofc no dmg taken too same BoL etc that how stupid it sound

I mean it would trigger instantly if you have not taken any damage and you would be able to use it like you do right now. Only thing that would change is that you couldn't go invis while someone is slapping you around, but rather you would first have to get into a position where you can avoid damage for 3 seconds, then cloak.

Sergykid

in wow the rogue (their nightblade) has the vanish (their cloak) ability with 3 minutes cooldown, because of how OP it is. Here can be cast every second.

and before you say "but he remains stealthed" here you go after a tree or something while cloaked and crouch and will be stealthed too.

technohic

Dudis wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

What if they just make it so you don't get the invisibility (but still the crit buff/minor protection depending on morph) for lets say 3 seconds after being the victim of a direct damage attack (not DoT) from another player.

Tooltip could be something like
- If you have not taken direct damage from another player in the last 3 seconds, gain invisibility for 3 seconds.

This would promote skillful play and positioning and would make Cloak less obnoxious to play against, while still being a very good ability, especially in combination with Shadow Image or perma-rolling.

One of the worst idea i ever read,make streak teleport only after 3 second and ofc no dmg taken too same BoL etc that how stupid it sound

I mean it would trigger instantly if you have not taken any damage and you would be able to use it like you do right now. Only thing that would change is that you couldn't go invis while someone is slapping you around, but rather you would first have to get into a position where you can avoid damage for 3 seconds, then cloak.

You can pretty much about do that with just crouch alone if you're not hit within 3 seconds.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Sergykid wrote: »

in wow the rogue (their nightblade) has the vanish (their cloak) ability with 3 minutes cooldown, because of how OP it is. Here can be cast every second.

and before you say "but he remains stealthed" here you go after a tree or something while cloaked and crouch and will be stealthed too.

Wow and eso are two different game no sense comparison.

Dudis wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

What if they just make it so you don't get the invisibility (but still the crit buff/minor protection depending on morph) for lets say 3 seconds after being the victim of a direct damage attack (not DoT) from another player.

Tooltip could be something like
- If you have not taken direct damage from another player in the last 3 seconds, gain invisibility for 3 seconds.

This would promote skillful play and positioning and would make Cloak less obnoxious to play against, while still being a very good ability, especially in combination with Shadow Image or perma-rolling.

One of the worst idea i ever read,make streak teleport only after 3 second and ofc no dmg taken too same BoL etc that how stupid it sound

I mean it would trigger instantly if you have not taken any damage and you would be able to use it like you do right now. Only thing that would change is that you couldn't go invis while someone is slapping you around, but rather you would first have to get into a position where you can avoid damage for 3 seconds, then cloak.

How im.supposed to do it when fighting?again think about streak or BoL if you cast them when fighting someone they just don't work but it's fine just get in a position where you can avoid dmg and then streak or heal right?

You realize that the NB defense is cloak?is not supposed to be used out of fight but in fight that the point of the skill it just can't work otherwise.
just buff magelight and some other counter a bit if needed,and as the other poster said at that point the normal sneak would be the same.


Not trying to be offensive but this idea is just bad sorry.

Seraphayel

BoL healing gets halved in PvP. Can we do that with Cloak please? I mean what kind of comparison is that? At best compare Streak and Cloak. Streak got its nerf and is still potent, Cloak just needs the same.

Rianai

Imo a reason why streak is still good is Dark Conversion. As magsorc i can streak multiple times, deplete most of my magicka, and then get it back within a few seconds to streak some more. I tried playing without Conversion, but it was much worse.
Nightblades don't have access to this kind of burst sustain, so once low on magicka chaining cloak would become impossible. Cloak would also need to be a lot more reliable, so i'm not forced to spam it just to eventually become invisible for the intended ~3 seconds.
I started to play some magsorc lately, after playing magblade almost exclusively for about a year and when it comes to "escapability" in open world pvp those two classes seem pretty similar to me. A stacking cost increase on cloak would put magblade in a much worse spot in this regard.

That being said, i wouldn't mind a less harsh penalty (or even a removal) for streak, to make sorcs less dependant on Dark Conversion.

Thunderknuckles

I honestly hope the devs in charge of buffing and nerfing classes can see through most of this drivel for the empty whining that it all really is.

CyrusArya wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

I've never once, in the short year or so I've been playing, seen a NB (not even a capped player) take on 12 players at the same level or higher and "tank" them for 4 to 5 minutes. Or by "tank" do you mean you kept them hunting for you for that long? On the other hand, I have seen Templars and Wardens commonly take on 3+ players 200 CP higher than themselves for 3 minutes or more. I mean, I'd dearly love to know your set up if you're taking on 12 or more players at a time as mag/stamblade.

Or were they all 400 CP lower than you?

I mean I was getting dogpiled by 12 people, the majority of em cp capped, and managed to elude em for 4-5 minutes. A combination of tanking and kiting. I never said I was “taking on” 12 players, I was doomed the whole time. I did manage to kill 2 or 3 in the process but there’s no way you win that fight on any class. My point wasn’t about my build or me as a player. My point is, I play multiple classes and main a stamplar. There is no way any other class could have pulled off that ridiculousness with a dual wield/2h build. Not even close. I’m not saying nerf nbs to the ground or nerf em at all, I’m saying it’s fairly clear that the class outperforms other stam builds (sans warden) in every regard when it can be that survivable with the hands down best burst and sustain.

My build btw is 5 Truth, 5 bone pirate, 2 bloodspawn heavy dual wield/2h.

So basically you were evading 12 people for 4 to 5 minutes and managed to take out a few (ones that wandered too far from the group?). Honestly, I don't see the OP'ness here with regards to NB. You were primarily avoiding them. If you had wiped most of them I could agree. You just did a great job of slipping away for that long.

twistedmonk

The logic here makes no sense for most posters.

The complaint is that you can't build to defend against nightblades because then they are vulnerable to other builds.

Yet the overall agreement is that nightblades are the most common class in PvP.

therefore...logic would dictate that you slot skills to defend against the most common class in PvP.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

BoL healing gets halved in PvP. Can we do that with Cloak please? I mean what kind of comparison is that? At best compare Streak and Cloak. Streak got its nerf and is still potent, Cloak just needs the same.

Cloak is fine some counter just need a buff,also streak is not the main defense of the sorc so...

Also i you where referring to me was to show that guy that his idea was bad.

L2P problem

rimmidimdim

twistedmonk wrote: »

The logic here makes no sense for most posters.

The complaint is that you can't build to defend against nightblades because then they are vulnerable to other builds.

Yet the overall agreement is that nightblades are the most common class in PvP.

therefore...logic would dictate that you slot skills to defend against the most common class in PvP.

This, I slot skills and sets for other classes and other NB's, other than...... no counter for wardens. Lol

Gilvoth

TarrNokk wrote: »

I play a stamblade pvp and I am just an average on it. I can do quite a few kills on it and I can escape SOMETIMES.
But most of the time, cloak is useless as I get revealed in 90% every situation.
Real good stamblades have better success rates in cloaking but the vast majority is dead on sight.

well said @TarrNokk
that is the truth.
years ago the dragonights got nerfed because they were an overpowered class and that was the devs fault by mistake.
and now they are balanced and they make threads like these here out of anger revenge and hate.

it is spam and revenge and mean to make these threads, has nothing to do with balance and is really against the forum rules.
the only reason their getting away with it is because they keep making these threads with different titles and spam them with arguments that are based on lies.

thier out for revenge and i hope the moderators, the devs, and eso community as a whole come to recognize these types of threads and shut them down.

Thogard

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

TarrNokk wrote: »

I play a stamblade pvp and I am just an average on it. I can do quite a few kills on it and I can escape SOMETIMES.
But most of the time, cloak is useless as I get revealed in 90% every situation.
Real good stamblades have better success rates in cloaking but the vast majority is dead on sight.

well said @TarrNokk
that is the truth.
years ago the dragonights got nerfed because they were an overpowered class and that was the devs fault by mistake.
and now they are balanced and they make threads like these here out of anger revenge and hate.

it is spam and revenge and mean to make these threads, has nothing to do with balance and is really against the forum rules.
the only reason their getting away with it is because they keep making these threads with different titles and spam them with arguments that are based on lies.

thier out for revenge and i hope the moderators, the devs, and eso community as a whole come to recognize these types of threads and shut them down.

https://imgur.com/gallery/KKilt

I fail at foruming. Can someone help me out and get me the .gif address so I can properly convey my emotions?

Nerftheforums

Seraphayel wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

The stealth class can stealth? Effectively? The hell is wrong with this game?

There's no stealth class like there's no tank or healer class.

LOL, I agree, dks absolutely are no made for tanking, just like Templars are not made for healing or wardens does buffing/debuffing. Nbs? Na, they ain't made for a stealthy gameplay, totally not. At this point give nightblades 30k+ shields, a shade that actively transport you to the other part of the world and a skill one to cast a couple times to be full magicka, and then you can destroy cloak as you guys so much want. Someone is dying from a 30k Stam, 3k wd nightblade (because those are the stars of a rollerblade)? SERIOUSLY? If you want to dodge roll forever and have infinite magsustain, then you won't kill anyone exept pugs. I guess you are a pug? L2p. You are not? Then stop qqing on servers for everything.
EVERY class except warden has a good counter to cloak. Just get good and learn to use it.

kadar

Want more stars on your account? Make a thread and ask for Cloak nerfs. Instantly, 75 forum kittens push the buttons under your post.

AchlysNox

More than anything else, the cost of incap strike has to go up. A 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate back simply from drinking a potion is just silly. In any prolonged fight against a good stamblade you're going to be under major defile for 95% of the fight.

MalakithAlamahdi

The_Outsider wrote: »

Want more stars on your account? Make a thread and ask for Cloak nerfs. Instantly, 75 forum kittens push the buttons under your post.

Thanks for the tip!

Bergzorn

As mentioned several times by others, the (soft) counters to cloak should be more reliable. I'm talking mainly about radiant magelight here. In many cases, it does not prevent the nb from sucessfully cloacking immediately again. Also the radius seems pretty low in action, be it because of reduction due to enemy passives or bad position syncronisation with the server.

I understand that many players love their stealthy, bursty class. But I am not a NPC, and in the present state it is often more annoying than fun to fight against a NB.

And while I am here: Let's remove the passive stealth mechanic completely from PvP, or at least increase the detection radius of players tremendously.

Shinshadow

To quote Rich Lambert. . . "git gud"

Sylosi

Undefwun wrote: »

The terms "L2P" and "Git Gud" have negative connotations, because of how they are used in a dismissive nature by a lot of people. The truth is though, that often they are not wrong.

The truth is they are often not wrong when you are playing CS, Starcraft 2, Halo, Super Smash Bros, Streetfighter, etc, however when you are playing an MMORPG where design and balance are basically trash tier because they are completely compromised in virtually every possible way, then 'get good' is very often not the issue (or not the only issue), the terribad design/balance is.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Cloak isn't the issue. Incap is.

AddictionX

thankyourat wrote: »

The same could be said about nightblade as well you can kill a nightblade without detect pots as long as he isn't running away at which point all my builds are destro builds so the nightblade could easily just sprint away no need to even cloak. I have only lost 2 duels to a stamblade in the last year and a couple 1v1 open world and they have all been because I couldn't cc break after incap. I'm not counting the times nightblades used resource poisons. I generally have the easiest time against nightblades both magicka and stamina maybe it's because I've played the class for so long, but I really don't even need detect pots I just use them because I play solo and need to kill snipers. I will say though 1v1 there is no way to kill a nightblade who doesn't want to fight i could potentially run away from every 1v1 I didn't think I could win. I think this is where some people consider cloak broken. I don't think running away is broken because you didn't kill anyone. If anything it's just annoying to have a nightblade know they are about to lose and just run away. 1v1

I interpret this as: "low risk = high reward".

lionofjudah7

Seraphayel wrote: »

Don't you think so? There might be a reason why 3/4 PvPers (mostly in battlegrounds) are either Nightblades, using 2h weapon+bow/dw or both.

Cloak needs the Streak treatment asap - every time you use Cloak its cost is increased by 50%. Why the hell isn't this done already?

Awwww looks like another case of L2P

Hope u git gud soon buddy

Killset

I vote we implement every single nerf to NB proposed in this thread. That way when 99% of the scrubs posting here realize they still suck they can torch and pitchfork after another class. The exaggeration, agenda, and bias in this thread has hit a new level.

Sarjako

Seraphayel wrote: »

Don't you think so? There might be a reason why 3/4 PvPers (mostly in battlegrounds) are either Nightblades, using 2h weapon+bow/dw or both.

Cloak needs the Streak treatment asap - every time you use Cloak its cost is increased by 50%. Why the hell isn't this done already?

L2P issue. It's so easy to uncover a NB from stealth. You should opt into the PvP Magelight, use detect pots or an AOE where when the nightblade tries to stealth. If you want to really learn, make a nightblade. Otherwise... stop crying for nerfs. Nightblades are like 100% guaranteed kill when you get them out of stealth.