Account wide achievements seriously....

Kodrac

One niggling thing that irritates me about achievements is the achievement vendor. I go to buy something and it says the requirement is for such and such achievement. Oh I know I've done it. Now let me figure out which toon it was. If only achievements were account wide....

TheShadowScout

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...the in-movie "achievements" only apply to the in-movie characters, and not the actors. So the in-game achievements would apply only to in-game characters and not their players.

And as a result... account wide achievements make no sense at all!

It does :-)
That ESO achievements are in-game achievements and therefore rightfully character-specific is YOUR view of things. And also ZOS' view, but only partially (costumes and dyes are account-wide).
Some players feel that it is player-related and that the design should be changed accordingly.
That's all there's to it really.

Unless you're truly intellectually dishonest, you can't argue against a change with the exact thing that people want to see changed. That makes no sense

Depends how you do it.
If its only "it should be that way because it is that way" then, agreed, that would make no sense (and be a pretty pathetic attempt at making an argument)

If on the other hand you argue that things are right and proper the way they are because -insert actual argument- then it is up to the ones who want to change things to argue their point, at which point you get to pick apart their arguments.

That's how it works, right? Right?

In any case, I think we made our arguments, and at this point should just agree to disagree and let the darn horse rest in peace...

anitajoneb17_ESO

TheShadowScout wrote: »

In any case, I think we made our arguments, and at this point should just agree to disagree and let the darn horse rest in peace...

Yup :-)
I like to talk with you but I have little opportunities to do that since I mostly agree with you on any other subject :-)
And even on this one, I am basically on your side. It's just that the other side made very valid points too.

And I love to watch (and if possible, understand) how players interact with each other, how they relate and identify to their characters, etc. I started ESO out of curiosity of "how an MMO works" and how a game can be made "neverending". After 3.5 years, I don't care much about the gameplay anymore, the seeing how players - individually and as a community - evolve and behave still fascinates me. This thread tells a lot in that regard.

I_killed_Vivec

code65536 wrote: »

Imagine this scenario:

John is playing with a trials group, attempting to complete the vet version of a new trial called FUFinn. John is on his "main", which is a damage dealer, but he also has a tank that he's very good with. One day, the tank for this trials group has a real-life emergency and needs to quit the game. The group leader asks John to come tank for this group. The group completes the trial, and John earns the achievement for completing FUFinn on vet... on his tank. Not his main, where he's trying to collect all the achievements. Sure, John got the account-wide skin, but the achievement--and achievement points--are locked to his tank.

There are other variants of this scenario. What if the group leader asks someone to come on a different character--for the good of the group--and that player refuses because they are a completionist who insists on coming on their main because that's the character that they need the achievement on? This is something that actually happened once.

Or, what if someone's "main" is a magicka DK, which is arguably the class that got screwed the most by the combat changes in and after Morrowind. They face the prospect of having to earn the new super-hard trial and dungeon achievements on a different character. I know of at least two people who had quit the game because of this sort of thing.

Just in general, when you're playing on your alts, any achievements that they get that your main doesn't have won't go towards your main's achievement count.

An account-wide achievement system can still have a breakdown of which characters have what. For example, if you expand the Flawless Conqueror achievement, it can go into more detail and indicate that you have it on this and that character.

I'm not an achievement hunter, and the things that I do care about--skins and such--are account-wide, so I don't really care either way. But I do know people who care a lot about getting as many of those achievement points as possible, and this would be a major QoL improvement for them that, frankly, doesn't take anything away from anyone else.

However, what really happened...

John, for some reason, wants the achievement on his damage dealer. But his group tell him that he's a brilliant tank and they need those skills, but his "damage dealer" can't put out more than 8k and is a liability.

John uses his tank, plays brilliantly, the group complete the achievement.

If John had played with his damage dealer then they would have failed.

Why should the damage dealer get the achievement? Particularly if using it would have caused the whole group to fail?

It doesn't make sense.

Having said that, I'm not against an account wide achievement list as long as it doesn't take the place of the individual achievement lists. I use those lists to keep track of what I haven't done on individual characters and I really wouldn't want to lose that.

I don't really care if people want to use titles that a particular character didn't, and possibly couldn't, earn - their vanity doesn't affect me ("My other character is a badass, honest!").

Apart from Master Angler - it used to mean you'd completed Cadwell's and gone to Cyrodiil, with 1T it's easier but your fisherman still has to go to Cyrodiil. The achievement would be diminished if you could use different characters for different areas.

Tandor

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

In any case, I think we made our arguments, and at this point should just agree to disagree and let the darn horse rest in peace...

Yup :-)
I like to talk with you but I have little opportunities to do that since I mostly agree with you on any other subject :-)
And even on this one, I am basically on your side. It's just that the other side made very valid points too.

And I love to watch (and if possible, understand) how players interact with each other, how they relate and identify to their characters, etc. I started ESO out of curiosity of "how an MMO works" and how a game can be made "neverending". After 3.5 years, I don't care much about the gameplay anymore, the seeing how players - individually and as a community - evolve and behave still fascinates me. This thread tells a lot in that regard.

I agree, but what we haven't established in this thread is the extent to which the different approaches to the players' characters depends on whether they are on console or PC. The perception has always been that console players view the player as the one getting achievements in a game and are used to everything being account-wide in what are on console largely non-MMORPG games, whereas PC players have much more of a MMORPG background and consider that it's their characters earning the achievements with everything for them being traditionally character-based. There's some crossover, of course, with players who are equally at home on console or PC.

I don't know if that perception pans out here or not, but if someone started a new poll on achievements being account-wide or character-specific (not that I am suggesting such a thing as this horse has been well and truly beaten to death already) then it might make sense to have both options separated as between those players who predominantly play on console and those who predominantly play on PC.

code65536

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Imagine this scenario:

John is playing with a trials group, attempting to complete the vet version of a new trial called FUFinn. John is on his "main", which is a damage dealer, but he also has a tank that he's very good with. One day, the tank for this trials group has a real-life emergency and needs to quit the game. The group leader asks John to come tank for this group. The group completes the trial, and John earns the achievement for completing FUFinn on vet... on his tank. Not his main, where he's trying to collect all the achievements. Sure, John got the account-wide skin, but the achievement--and achievement points--are locked to his tank.

There are other variants of this scenario. What if the group leader asks someone to come on a different character--for the good of the group--and that player refuses because they are a completionist who insists on coming on their main because that's the character that they need the achievement on? This is something that actually happened once.

Or, what if someone's "main" is a magicka DK, which is arguably the class that got screwed the most by the combat changes in and after Morrowind. They face the prospect of having to earn the new super-hard trial and dungeon achievements on a different character. I know of at least two people who had quit the game because of this sort of thing.

Just in general, when you're playing on your alts, any achievements that they get that your main doesn't have won't go towards your main's achievement count.

An account-wide achievement system can still have a breakdown of which characters have what. For example, if you expand the Flawless Conqueror achievement, it can go into more detail and indicate that you have it on this and that character.

I'm not an achievement hunter, and the things that I do care about--skins and such--are account-wide, so I don't really care either way. But I do know people who care a lot about getting as many of those achievement points as possible, and this would be a major QoL improvement for them that, frankly, doesn't take anything away from anyone else.

However, what really happened...

John, for some reason, wants the achievement on his damage dealer. But his group tell him that he's a brilliant tank and they need those skills, but his "damage dealer" can't put out more than 8k and is a liability.

John uses his tank, plays brilliantly, the group complete the achievement.

If John had played with his damage dealer then they would have failed.

Why should the damage dealer get the achievement? Particularly if using it would have caused the whole group to fail?

It doesn't make sense.

Having said that, I'm not against an account wide achievement list as long as it doesn't take the place of the individual achievement lists. I use those lists to keep track of what I haven't done on individual characters and I really wouldn't want to lose that.

I don't really care if people want to use titles that a particular character didn't, and possibly couldn't, earn - their vanity doesn't affect me ("My other character is a badass, honest!").

Apart from Master Angler - it used to mean you'd completed Cadwell's and gone to Cyrodiil, with 1T it's easier but your fisherman still has to go to Cyrodiil. The achievement would be diminished if you could use different characters for different areas.

Nobody is saying that the damage dealer should get the achievement. We're saying that the account--the player--should get the achievement.

Juju_beans

Kodrac wrote: »

One niggling thing that irritates me about achievements is the achievement vendor. I go to buy something and it says the requirement is for such and such achievement. Oh I know I've done it. Now let me figure out which toon it was. If only achievements were account wide....

I have my main which is also my crafter and will do all the quests/achievements and so I do my buying on that toon since I know I'll have the achievement.

don_kwek

So far the numbers grow and the proportion are still the same.
Dont forget to vote: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/319473/do-u-want-account-wide-achievement-titles

VaranisArano

I think having achievements count as accountwide for things like buying houses and achievement furnishings would be a good quality-of-life improvement.

SquareSausage

Nestor wrote: »

You know what would happen if they made account wide achievements? They would have to increase the requirements. So, one like Monster Hunter would require say 5000 Crabs and not 500. Because you could have 8 to 14 characters chasing this. So, the requirements would have to be raised, seeing they are now based on one character.

Nah, the achievement is still gained on one character but the achievement points go the global achivement completion list.

You would still need to kill X number of crabs on one char to complete the achievement.