An achievement is list of things that have been done.
Its not just your toon that completes it, it is also you.
Get it ?
TheShadowScout wrote: »Its really annoying to have to repeat this all the time...
All these achievements are in the game. Nowhere else. You know, the game where you interact Through Your Character??
YOU the player did not learn how to be a master blacksmith. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not become a mass murderer. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not gain the magic power of aetherius through interaction with shyshards. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not hang monster trophies on your wall. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not become a level 50 templar. Your character did in the game.
...and that is why the titles associated with them float over your characters head in the game, and not above yours the players.
Get it yet?
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »Its really annoying to have to repeat this all the time...
All these achievements are in the game. Nowhere else. You know, the game where you interact Through Your Character??
YOU the player did not learn how to be a master blacksmith. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not become a mass murderer. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not gain the magic power of aetherius through interaction with shyshards. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not hang monster trophies on your wall. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not become a level 50 templar. Your character did in the game.
...and that is why the titles associated with them float over your characters head in the game, and not above yours the players.
Get it yet?
But that's YOUR point of view ! And mine too, by the way, I personally prefer character-based achievements.
But we must accept that other people have different point of view, and it's just as valid as ours !
In THEIR point of view (which, and I emphasize that, is equally valid as ours) , the characters are TOOLS, and the main focus is THE PLAYER.
It's THE PLAYER who learns the mechanics of crafting in the game
It's THE PLAYER who spends time fishing for master angler
It's THE PLAYER who socializes and makes his way into guilds to do dungeon achievements and raid completions
It's THE PLAYER who spends time farming resources, and trades goods, and makes gold
It's THE PLAYER who takes a holiday and stays up 72 hours in a row to become emperor
etc etc.
Characters are just tools in the hand of the player and sometimes it's nice to leave your distant magicka glass cannon and switch to your melee stamina brute to farm your monster trophies achievements.
Get it yet ?
So, how is your blacksmith skill as player? Go on, make a few swords without your character and tell us how it went...anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »Its really annoying to have to repeat this all the time...
All these achievements are in the game. Nowhere else. You know, the game where you interact Through Your Character??
YOU the player did not learn how to be a master blacksmith. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not become a mass murderer. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not gain the magic power of aetherius through interaction with shyshards. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not hang monster trophies on your wall. Your character did in the game.
YOU the player did not become a level 50 templar. Your character did in the game.
...and that is why the titles associated with them float over your characters head in the game, and not above yours the players.
Get it yet?
But that's YOUR point of view ! And mine too, by the way, I personally prefer character-based achievements.
But we must accept that other people have different point of view, and it's just as valid as ours !
In THEIR point of view (which, and I emphasize that, is equally valid as ours) , the characters are TOOLS, and the main focus is THE PLAYER.
It's THE PLAYER who learns the mechanics of crafting in the game
...if they are going to a real world fisherman competition (are those even a thing? I dunno...) then maybe. But here, -you the player- are spending the time driving -your character- through those fishings until the title is available for -your character-. That's why the titles float over your characters head, instead of the game company mailing you a "certified master angler" t-shirt, you know...anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's THE PLAYER who spends time fishing for master angler
So, how many dungeons have -you the player- been to lately? (Not counting those with shiny leather, scent-oiled whips and velvet-covered handcuffs, where you leave a few hundred bucks poorer then you entered, but possibly satisfied, depending on your kinks...)anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's THE PLAYER who socializes and makes his way into guilds to do dungeon achievements and raid completions
You -do- realize that unless -you the player- have a pile of gold sitting at home you "made" you just have been telling a lie here?anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's THE PLAYER who spends time farming resources, and trades goods, and makes gold
Oh, adding delusions of royalty to your personal list of personal achievements? Or can we agree that while the player does indeed have to spend hours upon hours of effort on this, its -their character- they spend that effort on who becomes emperor, and not the player, and not all their alts that may or may not be newly escaped from coldharbour... yes?anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's THE PLAYER who takes a holiday and stays up 72 hours in a row to become emperor
And characters may be nothing without a player to drive them, but they are as real or unreal as... the whole game world, and the achievements therein. Thus those achievements are matched to the character, and not the player; because they -only- exist within the game world itself. As I keep pointing out, again and again when someone uses that fuzzy argument.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Characters are just tools in the hand of the player and sometimes it's nice to leave your distant magicka glass cannon and switch to your melee stamina brute to farm your monster trophies achievements.
TheShadowScout wrote: »So, how is your blacksmith skill as player? Go on, make a few swords without your character and tell us how it went...
As I was saying:anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Okay... let's fire up your PC, then ESO, log on into any character and go to sleep. See what your character has "achieved" the next morning... ?
Of course our characters cannot achieve anything without a player to drive them! Duh!TheShadowScout wrote: »And characters may be nothing without a player to drive them, but they are as real or unreal as... the whole game world, and the achievements therein. Thus those achievements are matched to the character, and not the player; because they -only- exist within the game world itself.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »So, how is your blacksmith skill as player? Go on, make a few swords without your character and tell us how it went...
Okay... let's fire up your PC, then ESO, log on into any character and go to sleep. See what your character has "achieved" the next morning... ?
@TheShadowScout , I've always appreciated your views, your posts, your writing and your sense of humour - which shows brillantly here.
In this case however I think you're proving your "mauvaise foi". I never found an adequate equivalent for this french expression in english. It's something like "pretending to not understand".
I've known you more open to different points of view. Stubborness is forgiveable once, I guess
Always take a mega lol at the people who have no clue what the RPG in MMORPG stands for ...SquareSausage wrote: »Always take a mega lol at the people who envision their charcaters as 'real people' and strive for them to be 'indivisuals'.
And that, @Nestor , is de ja vuanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Well, yes and no.
A degree in medicine from Oxford, a degree in medicine from Cambridge, and a degree in medicine from London are different degrees, yet they all make you an MD.
Hence "different but identical".
I'd probably find better words if english was my native language...
An account wide achievement summary, and achievement master list, if you will, would provide this.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »We need more threads on this topic I guess
Explain to me pls how you're "locked into 1 toon". I do not comprehend.
It's pretty simple. If you are a player that cares about your achievement point total, chances are that you play mostly with one character. This absolutely discourages alt-play. Those of us that play with multiple toons get very frustrated that there is no way to measure the achievement progress of your account as a whole.
In just about every game I can think of, you can satisfy the achievements with multiple play-throughs. Why should this be any different.
I would never suggest removing the achievements tied to individual characters, but adding an additional account wide achievement tab should be trivial and is something I would really like them to add.
There is no downside to RP fanboys that want everything done on one toon, and it would be good for altoholics that like to spread things around. It's a win win. They only possible issues would be certain titles. If you want to keep those tied to a character, fine, as it really doesnt matter. The only real issue would be level 15 Flawless Conquers and that sort of thing. Not like we dont already have level 15s running around with dro-mathra skins and the like.
Nevermind. Looks like you're already there.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »We WANT (need is a really strong word in a video game) a separate tab that shows total account wide progress. That way if you want to use them as a guide for a new character, you can still do so. But at the same time, if you want to see what you as a player still have left to accomplish in this game, you can do that too. It is rare that is such a simple middle ground solution exists to opposing view points. If I could see a downside to those in the camp against it, I would certainly reconsider my position. I am just not seeing it.
Here is a question:
How would account wide achievements make the game better?
No, placating your OCD does not count as making the game better. Achievements do nothing for character progression or advancement, other than the secondary effect of Exp gains while doing the activities that earn those achievements. So, what would making the achievements account wide do to improve the game?
TheShadowScout wrote: »And some try to use that "but the player did it" argument to firm up their position that this ought to be changed
I mean, I understand the argument, I just disagree with it.
TheShadowScout wrote: »But all those achievements are balanced for doing them on one character, they are useful to check on what you missed doing with your character, and they have no real purpose except checking on your characters progress.
TheShadowScout wrote: »I mean, its like an actor, really... when Arnold Schwarzenegger plays "the Terminator" and shoots up a police station, that is all make believe and not gonna get him the actor arrested, right? Because the actor and the character are different, just as the player and the character are in a game.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Players don't say "My warden completed vMoL last night". They say "I completed vMoL with my warden last night". They change characters according to their group's needs and circumstances, the same way they change gear and weapons.
When they talk about their teammates and friends ingame, they don't refer to their characters. Their refer to the real players there, regardless of what character they're currently logged in to.
As a result, a global account-wide summary of achievements makes sense.
Some achievements should be account wide some not. Same with lorebooks, mount upgrades can be account wide per mounts because you really just training that white horse once and using on the chars. Some skill points can be account wide. Quests are not that interesting after the 3rd time. Etc. Too much work to do so won't happen probably.
Sure I can!anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »And some try to use that "but the player did it" argument to firm up their position that this ought to be changed
I mean, I understand the argument, I just disagree with it.
And what I'm trying to tell you is that you can't invalidate their arguments. You can merely state your personal preference - because that's what it comes down to : preference.
The penthatlon argument would make sense if we were talking about player achievements.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »But all those achievements are balanced for doing them on one character, they are useful to check on what you missed doing with your character, and they have no real purpose except checking on your characters progress.
It's your opinion that achievements are there to check your character's progress. I understand that some players see their progress account-wide.
Take a pentathlon athlete. You're kind of saying that he should compete in separate competitions in each category (swimming, riding, running, shooting, fencing) because they're all different sports. The athlete, though, considers himself as achieving a global goal with several steps, each of them requiring different gears and skills.
It makes sense for an ESO player to want to complete all achievements globally, but each of them with the character that makes the most sense (NB for thieving activities, DK for PvP, sorc for vMA, etc...)
You do realize you just made my point here, yes?anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »I mean, its like an actor, really... when Arnold Schwarzenegger plays "the Terminator" and shoots up a police station, that is all make believe and not gonna get him the actor arrested, right? Because the actor and the character are different, just as the player and the character are in a game.
Disagree. Once Leonardo Di Caprio wins an Oscar for "The Revenant", that's not restricted to his role in "The Revenant". The actor wins the Oscar, not the character, and he remains an Oscar-winner for the rest of his career - and even for his previous roles.
Kitty_Quietly wrote: »Wow, interesting topic. A lot of angles to see. I find myself agreeing with all sides, which means I would be happy with or without a change.Some achievements should be account wide some not. Same with lorebooks, mount upgrades can be account wide per mounts because you really just training that white horse once and using on the chars. Some skill points can be account wide. Quests are not that interesting after the 3rd time. Etc. Too much work to do so won't happen probably.
If there was a change I would most enjoy, it would be account wide skill points from zone quests. So yeah, I agree 100% with that. Call me a greedy skeever, and let that be my cheese.
Titles, skill lines and found items (skyshards) feel more character based so I actually would’t want them account wide if given choice.
Kitty_Quietly wrote: »Wow, interesting topic. A lot of angles to see. I find myself agreeing with all sides, which means I would be happy with or without a change.Some achievements should be account wide some not. Same with lorebooks, mount upgrades can be account wide per mounts because you really just training that white horse once and using on the chars. Some skill points can be account wide. Quests are not that interesting after the 3rd time. Etc. Too much work to do so won't happen probably.
If there was a change I would most enjoy, it would be account wide skill points from zone quests. So yeah, I agree 100% with that. Call me a greedy skeever, and let that be my cheese.
Titles, skill lines and found items (skyshards) feel more character based so I actually would’t want them account wide if given choice.
Agree 100% it’s prob not popular, but for casuals like me, who still like to make alts account wide skill points would be a god send.
What I REALLY don’t get is people raging that just because they had to play 200 million hours of grind that everyone else should. It makes no difference to me at all how much or little time someone else has put into the game, or if in the future they buy a mythical token to gain 59 skill points or whatever.
TheShadowScout wrote: »...the in-movie "achievements" only apply to the in-movie characters, and not the actors. So the in-game achievements would apply only to in-game characters and not their players.
And as a result... account wide achievements make no sense at all!
Imagine this scenario:
John is playing with a trials group, attempting to complete the vet version of a new trial called FUFinn. John is on his "main", which is a damage dealer, but he also has a tank that he's very good with. One day, the tank for this trials group has a real-life emergency and needs to quit the game. The group leader asks John to come tank for this group. The group completes the trial, and John earns the achievement for completing FUFinn on vet... on his tank. Not his main, where he's trying to collect all the achievements. Sure, John got the account-wide skin, but the achievement--and achievement points--are locked to his tank.
There are other variants of this scenario. What if the group leader asks someone to come on a different character--for the good of the group--and that player refuses because they are a completionist who insists on coming on their main because that's the character that they need the achievement on? This is something that actually happened once.
Or, what if someone's "main" is a magicka DK, which is arguably the class that got screwed the most by the combat changes in and after Morrowind. They face the prospect of having to earn the new super-hard trial and dungeon achievements on a different character. I know of at least two people who had quit the game because of this sort of thing.
Just in general, when you're playing on your alts, any achievements that they get that your main doesn't have won't go towards your main's achievement count.
An account-wide achievement system can still have a breakdown of which characters have what. For example, if you expand the Flawless Conqueror achievement, it can go into more detail and indicate that you have it on this and that character.
I'm not an achievement hunter, and the things that I do care about--skins and such--are account-wide, so I don't really care either way. But I do know people who care a lot about getting as many of those achievement points as possible, and this would be a major QoL improvement for them that, frankly, doesn't take anything away from anyone else.