Are the gold costs for outfit changes too dang high?

mikeleg34_ESO

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Ridiculous costs. It costs 3k just to change the colors that were FREE the previous day (3 years).

mikeleg34_ESO

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Economy needs gold sinks

A gold sink isn't attaching a high cost to a feature that was free initially.
It's adding something entirely new at a cost.

Danny_UK

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Got no chance of me using it if it stays considerably high in gold. I mean I have quite alot of gold but that doesn't mean wasting it on different colours and slots. I think with most people angry about it they will reduce it eventually, if they don't they will have a big back lash on their hands.

ak_pvp

No, they are about right

Dying is silly expensive.

But the point is for it to not completely replace outfits/gear and instead be an extra custom thing to use in tandem with the other systems.

[Edit to remove reference to real-world politics]

OrdoHermetica

No, they are about right

mikeleg34_ESO wrote: »

Ridiculous costs. It costs 3k just to change the colors that were FREE the previous day (3 years).

...you realize you can still dye armor (and costumes if you have ESO+) for free, right? It only costs gold to dye outfits.

OrdoHermetica

No, they are about right

mikeleg34_ESO wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Economy needs gold sinks

A gold sink isn't attaching a high cost to a feature that was free initially.
It's adding something entirely new at a cost.

Huh? They didn't add a cost to an initially free existing feature. The only cost is to outfits, which is a new feature. It's still free to dye armor, as well as costumes if you have ESO+.

Elsonso

nimander99 wrote: »

I was under the impression Dying would still be free for subscriber's...

Nothing about the Outfit System is free to subscribers, except for the first Outfit slot. Everyone gets a free Outfit slot.

OrdoHermetica

No, they are about right

lordrichter wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I was under the impression Dying would still be free for subscriber's...

Nothing about the Outfit System is free to subscribers, except for the first Outfit slot. Everyone gets a free Outfit slot.

I think some wires are getting crossed here.

Dyeing armor is still free for everyone. Dyeing costumes is still free for ESO subscribers. Dyeing Outfits - the new system that the poll is about - costs gold for everyone. The Outfit system is an additional customization system; it doesn't replace or modify the existing systems.

boombazookajd

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

welp. there goes my excitement for the update. oh well. Looks like a system I just won't use.

Recremen

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Dojohoda wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm in the minority; I do not think it's too high considering what you get.. a unique outfit (unless someone copies you).

(My outfit only costs a little over 5k.) If people want the 20k+ outfits, I am sure they will find a way to pay for it.

How is a 20k outfit worth 4x as much as a 5k outfit. If style is subjective, how does ZOS even decide which outfits should cost more? its ridiculous in its entirety.

Respectfully, I'm sure you know the answer to this.. The motifs based on rarity (how difficult they are to obtain) cost more to use at the station. Zos decided to make it this way.

My take on it is: Rare motifs, being expensive to grind or to buy, and to use at the station, will insure that costumes using those motifs will be rare (like the motifs are rare). I'll admit that it's a convoluted reward for the holders of rare motifs, but it retains the value of the rare motifs. Such that level 1 Breton (which anyone can obtain easily) costs much less to use at the station than Bouyant Armiger (which is very hard to get).

@Dojohoda

An interesting hypothesis, but this is observably false. Buoyant Armiger, for instance, is only 1k gold per armor piece. Buoyant Armiger is the rarest motif in-game, btw, and sells highest on guild traders. Meanwhile something like Apostle style costs 2k per armor piece to apply, literally double the application cost of Buoyant Armiger, yet it's extremely easy to come by. It sells, on average, for under a tenth of the price of a Buoyant Armiger page, usually more like a twentieth.

If they want to keep certain styles rare, it's literally enough to do nothing. The rare styles are rare because people aren't getting/learning them. No need to double dip, no need to have a gold cost.

klowdy1

Imza wrote: »

motif styles should be free on the character that knows the motif - and cost on the character that doesn't know the motif

EDIT:

Colors should be free if you have the achievement and cost if the character does not have the achievement

I was hoping for style material cost, no gold.

temjiu

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

The results of this poll are overwhelmingly obvious. ZOS, please change this. The current iteration is just stupid.

To add to that, now we have to use up or only free slot to remove our headgear. So if we actually want to have another real costume, we need to pay 1500 coins.

So, in essence, our option to remove our headgear that was previously free on every toon, now costs 1500 coins. Simply outrageous. Take heed ZOS, this is the kind of stuff that really pushes players away.

VaranisArano

temjiu wrote: »

The results of this poll are overwhelmingly obvious. ZOS, please change this. The current iteration is just stupid.

To add to that, now we have to use up or only free slot to remove our headgear. So if we actually want to have another real costume, we need to pay 1500 coins.

So, in essence, our option to remove our headgear that was previously free on every toon, now costs 1500 coins. Simply outrageous. Take heed ZOS, this is the kind of stuff that really pushes players away.

Really? I was able to remove my helmet with the "hide helmet" collectible under Hats without using the outfit system. Am I missing something here?

Just to clarify, I was able to use my "hide helmet" collectible to hide the helmet on my crafted/dropped gear and my costumes. I was also able to use the "hide helmet" option in the outfit menu to hide the helmet on my costume. I didn't test whether or not the Hide helmet hat overrides the outfit as well.

So I'm not seeing that ZOS is charging to remove your helms.

krachall

No, they are about right

temjiu wrote: »

The results of this poll are overwhelmingly obvious. ZOS, please change this. The current iteration is just stupid.

ROFL And poll a typical group of people and ask them if taxes are too high. Or gas is too expensive. Or if they should get paid more. And what do you think the results will be?

So let's lower taxes and make gas free and pay everyone $150k a year!

My god...the lack of basic economic knowledge is amazing.

Draxys

can we even make our first one without it costing gold? I was under the impression that setting your outfit up first time per character was free- after that, any changes or additional outfit slots would cost gold/crowns.

RebelFireStorm

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Honestly I completely agree about the flat cost thing. Having to pay more for rare motifs that you already have paid for (in one way or another) is completely insipid and ridiculous. I also think paying gold to dye the outfit is stupid. We already had to grind through everything just to get the dyes in the first place. Now we have to pay for them?

I guess I wouldn't mind if trying to get gold in this game wasn't incredibly boring or if we didn't have other huge gold sinks to contend with. I like to try different things, so unless one of y'all moneybags is gonna send me a million gold or something, I'll be avoiding the use of this system. I might've considered buying some of the crown ones just to give me whatever for a few characters, but ZoS has handled the whole system and the DLC launch so poorly I'm not spending a single dime of IRL money on any of their garbage this patch.

Ardan147

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

The real outrage is the cost of additional outfit slots and that they can only be purchased with crowns. The gold cost for setting up an outfit wouldn't be too bad (even for the more expensive styles) if it wasn't for the fact if you later change it you can't go back to the first outfit without having to spend all that gold all over again unless you have another outfit slot to use for the other outfit.

idk

Not suggesting some of the pricing is to high or not, but the poll is kind of pointless.

Who says they want to pay more? Heck, some want this to be totally free. While Zos does see the threads in there I am certain they are aware enough about this type of poll and results of this type of question to ignore it's meaningless results.

Morgul667

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

That's veryyyyyy expensive

Pennylong

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

I thought it wasn't too bad at first but after playing with it more it gets a bit silly. 6k gold to change my staff to Ebon Shadow and that is without dyes.

Vapirko

No, they are about right

I’m currently averaging around 13k per outfit which I think is fine. This is to alter every single piece and dye. Granted I’m not using all fancy motifs or colors. But I also don’t feel like I’m skimping. Personally I like the design of a lot of the lower tier weapons and simple pieces on the smaller parts.

Linaleah

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

krachall wrote: »

I messed around with a few styles and most full changes were 4-5k gold. 5k gold is, literally, 5 minutes of casual raw material farming. And it's not like you're changing your outfit every day...or even every week. Sure, maybe you tweak some stuff but it's a simple cosmetic change that you'll use once every few weeks. Pay the gold already.

are you sure you went for a full change? are you very VERY sure? you know with dyes and both weapon bars etc

becasue lets do the math here. say I want to create an outfit that is just basic faction style. each piece of gear is going to cost 250 to change and dye (you have to dye your outfit inside an outfit interface, so if you want colors other then baseline? you WILL pay for it) 250 x 7 is 1750 gold. but wait... we haven't touched weapons yet! lets be gentle and play a magika something, so you are using 2 handed weapon on both bars. each weapon. EACH. is going to cost you 1350 gold. that's basic blue faction style. (oh and btw, its actualy more if use dual wield becasue EACH weapon will cost you 1050 to dye)

lets add this up. $4450 for the most basic of styles. which is nowhere near the most styles. ok, lets proceed to the next thing on a price list - the daedric, primal etc. you know those purple disappointment books that drop like candy nowadays. just over 5k since the styles are 250 per gear item, 750 for a weapon set.

so we have what... 12? 13 sets that fit within your stated cost. now. lets go deeper! lets..... lets try something that ZoS considers rare but not the rarest. ah, there we go, akaviri. huh.. even for our hypothetical magika character we are looking at 8650 gold cost. that goes up to 9700 if you duel wield on at least one bar.

according to the latest count, there are 58 individual styles in this game one can craft and therefore - use in outfit system. only about a dozen of those, or more specifically 14 (I'm assuming, I cannot test the cost of imperial, as I have imperial edition and as such, for that one at least I only pay dye costs) that are 5k or under to fully change to.

your definition of "most" is fascinating.

moreover. lets deconstruct your claim of 5 minutes of raw mat farming getting you 5k gold. in order to get that much for a raw mat, it would have to be 1. max level mat. and 2 a total of what you get has to be at least a stack of 100 or equivalent of thereof. given that on pc, average cost of raw mats per item is about 50 gold or so. from experience, even farming in a middle of the night WITH rapids and no competition and lucky streaks of getting double the mats from each node... it takes a hell of a lot longer then that to get an equivalent of a stack of 100 raw anything. but flowers you say? but rng spawns I say.

in other words. please. stop exaggerating and outright lying.

Kikazaru

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

If i'm the sort of person to alter my looks on a consistant basis... on multiple characters... then yes. My outfit cost 19k... and changes - big or small- can really add up over time.

My lovely gold sink.

Also, the cost for more outfit slots is outrageous! 300 -600 crowns more like it for me...

I do enjoy the freedom in gear choices, however.

ecru

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

They're not a problem for me but most players I know do not have a ton of gold to expend. I think they could come down by at least half.

psilverelf

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

psilverelf wrote: »

I have already provided my feedback in game and stated my displeasure at the costs.

I modified the one free outfit slot fully and depending on my choices, it cost between 10,000 and a bit over 14,000 gold to fully set an outfit.

I am by no means rich. Compared with many players that I know have literally millions of gold, I am a pauper.

I will state now, I will not spend anymore gold or use any crowns going towards this outfit system in its current state.

Please reconsider the costs that have been set, and make them more reasonable. I really don't care at this point if every player in ESO calls my toons ugly, it will not change my opinion.

I have played with the Outfit system some more and I am going to change my stance, somewhat.

As it turns out it only seems to be the rare, hard to get motifs that are priced so excruciatingly high. If you use the common and uncommon motifs that almost everybody gets during the leveling process, the cost is much more within reason.

I just happened to use the Hollowjack motif obtained from the witches festival on my first try with the Outfit system, and the big pieces cost 2000 gold and the small pieces were 1000 gold each. This came out to over 10k gold in cost.

In comparison, the High elf style was 100 gold each for the big pieces and 50 gold each for the small pieces, which equates to a bit over 500 gold.

In addition, each character gets one free outfit slot, not one outfit slot account wide.

I still think the rare motif usages is a bit expensive, but I am much less unhappy and will probably make use of the Outfit system.

Donari

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Draxys wrote: »

can we even make our first one without it costing gold? I was under the impression that setting your outfit up first time per character was free- after that, any changes or additional outfit slots would cost gold/crowns.

No. The first slot itself is free, but using it for anything but free motifs (Imperial and Morag Tong if you have those for your account) will cost you gold. Including for the dyes. Even if you subscribe.

And the longer it stays that way the more they will say "Oh, dear, you guys are so right that we shouldn't have charged you so much for character-bound slots or made you pay gold for dyeing your outfits, very sorry, but sadly now that players have spent RL and in-game resources on setting up their looks we just can't change it because that would be mean to people that spent money already."

I've seen it in other games, I predict it here. Never mind that they have in fact changed the looks of purchased/earned gear without notice in the past; the amount of refunds they'd have to sort out if they finally made this right would have their suits screaming. I think that dev "It is what is" comment in the live stream had all the ear marks of "I really hate this and why oh why do I have to be the messenger to the players that the gouging will continue."

Linaleah

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

psilverelf wrote: »

psilverelf wrote: »

I have already provided my feedback in game and stated my displeasure at the costs.

I modified the one free outfit slot fully and depending on my choices, it cost between 10,000 and a bit over 14,000 gold to fully set an outfit.

I am by no means rich. Compared with many players that I know have literally millions of gold, I am a pauper.

I will state now, I will not spend anymore gold or use any crowns going towards this outfit system in its current state.

Please reconsider the costs that have been set, and make them more reasonable. I really don't care at this point if every player in ESO calls my toons ugly, it will not change my opinion.

I have played with the Outfit system some more and I am going to change my stance, somewhat.

As it turns out it only seems to be the rare, hard to get motifs that are priced so excruciatingly high. If you use the common and uncommon motifs that almost everybody gets during the leveling process, the cost is much more within reason.

I just happened to use the Hollowjack motif obtained from the witches festival on my first try with the Outfit system, and the big pieces cost 2000 gold and the small pieces were 1000 gold each. This came out to over 10k gold in cost.

In comparison, the High elf style was 100 gold each for the big pieces and 50 gold each for the small pieces, which equates to a bit over 500 gold.

In addition, each character gets one free outfit slot, not one outfit slot account wide.

I still think the rare motif usages is a bit expensive, but I am much less unhappy and will probably make use of the Outfit system.

you are not counting dyes. each channel costs 50 gold for gear pieces, 350 for weapons. so you are looking at a minimum at 250 gold per gear slot, with weapons, I believe it was 350 for one handed in cheapest style, with 1 k gold cost PER weapon to dye.

why dye is important? becasue if you want your outfit to look like anything other then its base color - you have to dye it, IN outfit UI. that exponentially increases the cost even for cheapest motifs.

peacenote

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Based on how ESO works today, the costs and mechanics of the outfit system make no sense whatsoever. In my opinion, more effort should have been made to integrate it into the ESO ecosystem in a consistent manner. I fully support the Crown Store, and I know why we need gold sinks in the game. Fine with both of those concepts. However:

1. There isn't an NPC at the outfit station. The gold we pay to the station goes to no one, while almost all other gold transactions in game are done through an NPC. There are a few exceptions, but none of the other crafting stations sell mats and furnishings built right into them and take gold. There are NPC merchants nearby to do this. There are NPCs manning every store, bank and guild trader. You have to pay an NPC to repair your gear... you can't just click a button out in the world to have gold magically disappear to get this done. The ESO world doesn't have vending machines. No NPC should mean that the station is free to use.
2. The outfit station charges me gold in the privacy of my own home. Let's pretend the outfit station has a rental fee we're paying on the honor system through a coin slot. OK, so now I've bought a station and taken it home... shouldn't it be free now? And shouldn't I get to keep the gold if someone uses it in my house?
3. I can preview the motifs through "Outfit Styles" out of the collections menu - and see the gold prices - without visiting an outfit station. I mean, I'm trying here. We're paying a station without a person with gold to change our appearance. Fine. But this preview "anywhere in the world" feature flaunts to us that clearly with the exposure of a few more UI buttons, visiting the outfit station isn't actually necessary. Should have just kept the dye station a dye station, and allowed us to build outfits through the collectibles menu.
4. Gold has never been used as a direct currency for changing your appearance anywhere else in game. It is free to dye your armor. (Subscribers can also dye costumes for free, while everyone else has to buy dye stamps in the crown store, but again... not gold.) It costs no money to equip a costume or skin. It costs no money to equip crafted or dropped equipment. It costs no money to put on a title. You can see where I am going with this...
5. It costs money to apply motifs I've learned. Why? Once I've learned a motif, I can craft it for free. Once I've purchased a Crown Store costume, I can put it on and off again as many times as I like, for free. It would make much more sense to allow us to apply motifs that we haven't learned with gold or mimic stones as a one-time cost. Then introduce more Crown Store only motifs and make your income that way. I would have been much more likely to spend crowns and gold on new looks as I tweaked the appearances of all of my characters on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, possibly getting addicted to such a beautiful system that you've created. Having to spend gold every time I want to make an outfit change means I'm probably going to just use costumes and switch those like I've been doing for quite some time. I will think too hard about if this or that change is worth gold and not bother with the system at all.
6. I need gold to apply my changes, but not style stones. Again, just inconsistent with how we've learned to work with motifs. It would make more sense to charge gold or crowns when we are short style stones, introduce more style stones into the game that are harder to get, and sell them in the crown store and also at a vendor, expensively, for a lot of gold. Maybe require two - five style mats (or mimic stones) per pattern based on rarity. Same outcome, more logical implementation.

Basically, as others have pointed out already, the outfit system is a too-thinly veiled attempt to push people towards purchasing outfit tokens. I don't judge pushing sales towards the Crown Store, but I'm disappointed that little to no effort was made to ensure the system followed in-game world logic. There are lots of ways to make players spend gold or crowns, but tweaking your appearance with known items at a "crafting" station should be free and use some type of material only in keeping with how everything else works. Please integrate new systems into the world properly!

Yolokin_Swagonborn

peacenote wrote: »

Based on how ESO works today, the costs and mechanics of the outfit system make no sense whatsoever. In my opinion, more effort should have been made to integrate it into the ESO ecosystem in a consistent manner. I fully support the Crown Store, and I know why we need gold sinks in the game. Fine with both of those concepts. However:

1. There isn't an NPC at the outfit station. The gold we pay to the station goes to no one, while almost all other gold transactions in game are done through an NPC. There are a few exceptions, but none of the other crafting stations sell mats and furnishings built right into them and take gold. There are NPC merchants nearby to do this. There are NPCs manning every store, bank and guild trader. You have to pay an NPC to repair your gear... you can't just click a button out in the world to have gold magically disappear to get this done. The ESO world doesn't have vending machines. No NPC should mean that the station is free to use.
2. The outfit station charges me gold in the privacy of my own home. Let's pretend the outfit station has a rental fee we're paying on the honor system through a coin slot. OK, so now I've bought a station and taken it home... shouldn't it be free now? And shouldn't I get to keep the gold if someone uses it in my house?
3. I can preview the motifs through "Outfit Styles" out of the collections menu - and see the gold prices - without visiting an outfit station. I mean, I'm trying here. We're paying a station without a person with gold to change our appearance. Fine. But this preview "anywhere in the world" feature flaunts to us that clearly with the exposure of a few more UI buttons, visiting the outfit station isn't actually necessary. Should have just kept the dye station a dye station, and allowed us to build outfits through the collectibles menu.
4. Gold has never been used as a direct currency for changing your appearance anywhere else in game. It is free to dye your armor. (Subscribers can also dye costumes for free, while everyone else has to buy dye stamps in the crown store, but again... not gold.) It costs no money to equip a costume or skin. It costs no money to equip crafted or dropped equipment. It costs no money to put on a title. You can see where I am going with this...
5. It costs money to apply motifs I've learned. Why? Once I've learned a motif, I can craft it for free. Once I've purchased a Crown Store costume, I can put it on and off again as many times as I like, for free. It would make much more sense to allow us to apply motifs that we haven't learned with gold or mimic stones as a one-time cost. Then introduce more Crown Store only motifs and make your income that way. I would have been much more likely to spend crowns and gold on new looks as I tweaked the appearances of all of my characters on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, possibly getting addicted to such a beautiful system that you've created. Having to spend gold every time I want to make an outfit change means I'm probably going to just use costumes and switch those like I've been doing for quite some time. I will think too hard about if this or that change is worth gold and not bother with the system at all.
6. I need gold to apply my changes, but not style stones. Again, just inconsistent with how we've learned to work with motifs. It would make more sense to charge gold or crowns when we are short style stones, introduce more style stones into the game that are harder to get, and sell them in the crown store and also at a vendor, expensively, for a lot of gold. Maybe require two - five style mats (or mimic stones) per pattern based on rarity. Same outcome, more logical implementation.

Basically, as others have pointed out already, the outfit system is a too-thinly veiled attempt to push people towards purchasing outfit tokens. I don't judge pushing sales towards the Crown Store, but I'm disappointed that little to no effort was made to ensure the system followed in-game world logic. There are lots of ways to make players spend gold or crowns, but tweaking your appearance with known items at a "crafting" station should be free and use some type of material only in keeping with how everything else works. Please integrate new systems into the world properly!

I didn't expect an immersion argument to be so compelling. But why let us do anything in the world without paying gold?

Just stamp these on every crafting station, every wall, every guild hall. Want to enter your own house that you bought? 1000 gold please or one house entry token.

techprince

Yes, the outfit gold costs are too dang high

Wont be using Outfits at all.