sorcs

Anethum

Irylia wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

it is not fair and not balanced.

I agree, heavy attack from stealth followed by incap surprise attack execute before your opponent can’t break free is not fair or balanced.
Ty for pointing out that stealth is a broken mechanic.

Its a part of gameplay, which u can counter and be ready for that, keeping buffs, shields etc.
Also, if u have no detection pots slotted it is a huge your own problem.
Stealth is very easy to counter thing

"Always remember: Your focus determines your reality" Qui-Gon Jinn (star wars)

Feanor

diplomatt wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

it is not fair and not balanced.

I agree, heavy attack from stealth followed by incap surprise attack execute before your opponent can’t break free is not fair or balanced.
Ty for pointing out that stealth is a broken mechanic.

Its a part of gameplay, which u can counter and be ready for that, keeping buffs, shields etc.
Also, if u have no detection pots slotted it is a huge your own problem.
Stealth is very easy to counter thing

"Always remember: Your focus determines your reality" Qui-Gon Jinn (star wars)

Shields are part of the gameplay too and have counters. If you don’t know how to do it „it is a huge your own problem“.

Seriously, the amount of double standards applied is breathtaking.

Minalan

diplomatt wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

it is not fair and not balanced.

I agree, heavy attack from stealth followed by incap surprise attack execute before your opponent can’t break free is not fair or balanced.
Ty for pointing out that stealth is a broken mechanic.

Its a part of gameplay, which u can counter and be ready for that, keeping buffs, shields etc.
Also, if u have no detection pots slotted it is a huge your own problem.
Stealth is very easy to counter thing

"Always remember: Your focus determines your reality" Qui-Gon Jinn (star wars)

Detect pots don’t help, stop spreading that nonsense. If you pop a nightblade with detect, cloak still hands him 100% dodge chance for another second or two even if he’s visible. Meanwhile the NB is still getting the (bugged) healing tick crits from shadowy disguise. Then he’s gone, or the fight is reset basically, heal to full. And you’re on a 45 second detect pot CD.

Let’s not pretend that this is garbage isn’t a thing.

Pijng

Minalan wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Piraja27 wrote: »

I really cannot understand the thought process behind having a long distance execution ability that is undodgeable to top it off and then add ability to have damage shields that in 1v1 encounters there is almost no point to even bother. I have been paying close eye to the death report details, about 8 out of 10 times when I die in Cyrodiil campaign is to endless fury explosion. I agree that every class needs to have their bs to make them strong somewhere but there is a limit there, like nightblades have their clo... oh wait sorc takes that away too with huge hit box unavoidable stun attack that takes a lot of space.

My two cents that is really the only thing about pvp I have grown to dislike, is mag sorc. Too tanky for 1 button press spam (oblivion enchantment doesn't hit +15k to take them out so don't even bother with that, stuns are not frequent enough to stop them from moving all together and they got insane surge to escape if things seem going south)

Insightful

Insightful? Irylia his post is so full of wrong it’ll make you stupider just reading it.

The execute IS dodgable. You died because you didn’t dodge it and fell into 20% health left, which is about 5-6K or less on a typical toon. Get over it, it’s not like you would have escaped radiant destruction either. Or a *** resto heavy attack with an oblivion enchant for that matter. It doesn’t take an execute to do 5-6K damage.

Shields aren’t one button press, it’s two or three GCD, with about 10K per shield. If you can’t do 10K damage per second git gud. The nightblades whining and crying here are music to my ears. They cry every time their forever-invisible little **** rogue class can’t one shot anyone out of stealth, and they won’t learn how to play any better than their stealth alpha strike macro.

I'm pretty sure it's still possible for stamblade to "one-shot" sorc with a gank combo (why need macro when it's 2 ez to do?). For magblade...uh, I thought magblade are beasts now, so who tf are sorcs for them?

Irylia

Minalan wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Piraja27 wrote: »

I really cannot understand the thought process behind having a long distance execution ability that is undodgeable to top it off and then add ability to have damage shields that in 1v1 encounters there is almost no point to even bother. I have been paying close eye to the death report details, about 8 out of 10 times when I die in Cyrodiil campaign is to endless fury explosion. I agree that every class needs to have their bs to make them strong somewhere but there is a limit there, like nightblades have their clo... oh wait sorc takes that away too with huge hit box unavoidable stun attack that takes a lot of space.

My two cents that is really the only thing about pvp I have grown to dislike, is mag sorc. Too tanky for 1 button press spam (oblivion enchantment doesn't hit +15k to take them out so don't even bother with that, stuns are not frequent enough to stop them from moving all together and they got insane surge to escape if things seem going south)

Insightful

Insightful? Irylia his post is so full of wrong it’ll make you stupider just reading it.

The execute IS dodgable. You died because you didn’t dodge it and fell into 20% health left, which is about 5-6K or less on a typical toon. Get over it, it’s not like you would have escaped radiant destruction either. Or a *** resto heavy attack with an oblivion enchant for that matter. It doesn’t take an execute to do 5-6K damage.

Shields aren’t one button press, it’s two or three GCD, with about 10K per shield. If you can’t do 10K damage per second git gud. The nightblades whining and crying here are music to my ears. They cry every time their forever-invisible little **** rogue class can’t one shot anyone out of stealth, and they won’t learn how to play any better than their stealth alpha strike macro.

I like to say “insightful” to clueless people and their comments.
Instead of pressing the insightful button I just comment with it (sarcastically) because there is no point in reasoning with sheep.

Anethum

Minalan wrote: »

Detect pots don’t help, stop spreading that nonsense. If you pop a nightblade with detect, cloak still hands him 100% dodge chance for another second or two even if he’s visible. Then he’s gone.

lol. + u have mage light, *** but working expert hunter, aoe-s, ground etc. part of game play man.
+ bugged cloak stop working with a huge amount of not intended things.
+ Yesterday I logged as manasorc to cyrodill and many times saw that enemy nighbklade's stealth was broke without any special things from my side, simply light attacks weaving, why...zenimax "cool" job...

Feanor wrote: »

Shields are part of the gameplay too and have counters. If you don’t know how to do it „it is a huge your own problem“.
Seriously, the amount of double standards applied is breathtaking.

what double standarts u found here? Did I said somewhere that shields are not part of the game? Explain this "breathtaking" please

Anethum

Pijng wrote: »

For magblade...uh, I thought magblade are beasts now, so who tf are sorcs for them?

Have u played manablade?

Feanor

diplomatt wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Detect pots don’t help, stop spreading that nonsense. If you pop a nightblade with detect, cloak still hands him 100% dodge chance for another second or two even if he’s visible. Then he’s gone.

lol. + u have mage light, *** but working expert hunter, aoe-s, ground etc. part of game play man.
+ bugged cloak stop working with a huge amount of not intended things.
+ Yesterday I logged as manasorc to cyrodill and many times saw that enemy nighbklade's stealth was broke without any special things from my side, simply light attacks weaving, why...zenimax "cool" job...

Feanor wrote: »

Shields are part of the gameplay too and have counters. If you don’t know how to do it „it is a huge your own problem“.
Seriously, the amount of double standards applied is breathtaking.

what double standarts u found here? Did I said somewhere that shields are not part of the game? Explain this "breathtaking" please

Because especially Nightblades always claim that

- Sorc is so easy to play
- Shields have no counter and are OP
- Sorcs can Streak endlessly
- While still having tremendous uncounterable burst

Meanwhile

- their cloak is always not working
- Their Incap/Soul Harvest always dodged
- They don’t have burst at all
- And they always are nerfed, never buffed

Just skim through some NB balance threads and see how ridiculous some of the suggestions there are.

Pijng

diplomatt wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

For magblade...uh, I thought magblade are beasts now, so who tf are sorcs for them?

Have u played manablade?

Only a bomb one (so it doesnt count) . Wanna say magblades are *** vs msorcs? If yes – ok, I'll agree

RinaldoGandolphi

The hating on Mag Sorc is just so irrational at this point.

the class is a shell of itself from 2-3 years ago...I mean it even has a Battle Spirit Nerf that is DIRECTLY aimed at it (halfing damage shield values) and damage scales far greater then sheilds do over the power creep that is gear, stats, and cp...Mag Sorc is utter trash in No-CP. Wards are absolutely useless and your better off playing any other class

what more do folks want at this point? Just delete the Mag Sorc class maybe? I dunno what else folks want at this point.

I guess everyone should just roll a nightblade, a stamden, or stamplar...all 3 of which are far stronger then that dirty mag sorc...

Here is a nice gif depicting the state of Mag Sorc in ESO right now...Thats not the Sorc swing the bat either, Sorc is on the receiving end.

Joy_Division

Minalan wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Piraja27 wrote: »

I really cannot understand the thought process behind having a long distance execution ability that is undodgeable to top it off and then add ability to have damage shields that in 1v1 encounters there is almost no point to even bother. I have been paying close eye to the death report details, about 8 out of 10 times when I die in Cyrodiil campaign is to endless fury explosion. I agree that every class needs to have their bs to make them strong somewhere but there is a limit there, like nightblades have their clo... oh wait sorc takes that away too with huge hit box unavoidable stun attack that takes a lot of space.

My two cents that is really the only thing about pvp I have grown to dislike, is mag sorc. Too tanky for 1 button press spam (oblivion enchantment doesn't hit +15k to take them out so don't even bother with that, stuns are not frequent enough to stop them from moving all together and they got insane surge to escape if things seem going south)

Insightful

Insightful? Irylia his post is so full of wrong it’ll make you stupider just reading it.

The execute IS dodgable. You died because you didn’t dodge it and fell into 20% health left, which is about 5-6K or less on a typical toon. Get over it, it’s not like you would have escaped radiant destruction either. Or a *** resto heavy attack with an oblivion enchant for that matter. It doesn’t take an execute to do 5-6K damage.

Shields aren’t one button press, it’s two or three GCD, with about 10K per shield. If you can’t do 10K damage per second git gud. The nightblades whining and crying here are music to my ears. They cry every time their forever-invisible little **** rogue class can’t one shot anyone out of stealth, and they won’t learn how to play any better than their stealth alpha strike macro.

Almost positive Irylia was being sarcastic.

Anethum

Pijng wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

For magblade...uh, I thought magblade are beasts now, so who tf are sorcs for them?

Have u played manablade?

Only a bomb one (so it doesnt count) . Wanna say magblades are *** vs msorcs? If yes – ok, I'll agree

try to play it seriously in different builds, different situations, u will wonder how uncomfortable is it.
Strong? Yes, Beast? No.
Not because of luck of burst, but because of how much more complicated are combos.
In hard situations in eso or life in general mostly win simplier one.
Until u're automat with perfect ping.
Even after some improvement to mersiless resolve...u still need to do actions very fast and presisely as hell.
Sorc burst is easier, almost all it's kinds (except Blobsky's way of stun provided by pet idk:))

Feanor wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Detect pots don’t help, stop spreading that nonsense. If you pop a nightblade with detect, cloak still hands him 100% dodge chance for another second or two even if he’s visible. Then he’s gone.

lol. + u have mage light, *** but working expert hunter, aoe-s, ground etc. part of game play man.
+ bugged cloak stop working with a huge amount of not intended things.
+ Yesterday I logged as manasorc to cyrodill and many times saw that enemy nighbklade's stealth was broke without any special things from my side, simply light attacks weaving, why...zenimax "cool" job...

Feanor wrote: »

Shields are part of the gameplay too and have counters. If you don’t know how to do it „it is a huge your own problem“.
Seriously, the amount of double standards applied is breathtaking.

what double standarts u found here? Did I said somewhere that shields are not part of the game? Explain this "breathtaking" please

Because especially Nightblades always claim that
...
Just skim through some NB balance threads and see how ridiculous some of the suggestions there are.

Same as ridiculous are some suggestions in this thread.
I think its not the reason to write about double standarts applied to me.

I like to play nighblade as one of my characters, but not stucked in it.
My main is stam dk from ~august 2014, have both templars (stamplar maybe my the strongest one now, made a good unusual build for previous patch), both wardens (i compared them with another classes a lot), both nighblades (don't enjoy stamnb, maybe because its 2 simple idk), manasorc (still have no inspiration to buy slot and create stamsorc). I don't pretent to be very nice at them. But learned to play each one very attentive. Strong sides, weak sides, broken things, overpowered things. Tryed absolutly various builds.
My goal is general balance to have fun on every class. Without OP-ness of one of them. I want interesting different fights, I like a pure process.

That's why your words are incorrect. Don't tie me please to the ghosts of imagination

Lord-Otto

On the matter of sorc burst being sooo easy, you biased buffoons:

A sorc burst requires exact four seconds of exact preparation: Curse-Fury-CC-Frag. Four seconds that have to play out exactly like this. You have to shield, you got CC'ed, the enemy LoS'ed, etc, just ONCE and the burst and four seconds are completely wasted. The timer nature of Curse is indeed a curse.

Magblades have the burst on demand. You can hold the bow for 20 seconds, and it deals as much damage as Curse and Frag combined. So whenever the stars don't align for you, you can just wait without a loss. And don't get started on Fear's buggy CC. Thanks to the animation, where other CCs give you only one guaranteed follow-up, Fear gives you two. Hardly skilled gameplay here.
You're just greedy for firing your "ultimate" bow every five seconds, and now want to talk people into believing this would be a burden and magblades super complicated to play. Me and my magblade know better.

Get off of your high horses, magblades, they're just a bunch of crutches tied together. In no way is magblade play difficult to execute. And sorc burst requires extreme precision against competent players, which I think is a big reason they struggle so much in competitive duelling scenes.

Neloth

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Get off of your high horses, magblades, they're just a bunch of crutches tied together. In no way is magblade play difficult to execute. And sorc burst requires extreme precision against competent players, which I think is a big reason they struggle so much in competitive duelling scenes.

Exactly. After assasin will changes this patch magblades can't claim to be the hardest class to play, imho.

They have VERY high burst (soul harvest/incap + bow, is it like 2x magsorc burst, btw) aligned in 1-3 seconds (incap->bow \ harvest->fear->bow / incap -> clench-> bow), good CC (both fear and clench works really good for them), hard hitting dots (and scoria with them if required), and one of the best mobility in game with cloak + shade.

After bow changes you basically have to watch for 1 buff not to expire (one, Carl!!!) - the shade, and just pressure your opponent until your burst is ready. Is it hard to set up your burst? No, it's not. You just have to weave and recast MR every 15-25 seconds (it doesn't matter if it expired or not), super hard, yes. Compare to the pre-DragBones times, when you almost got bow proc, then got CCed, pressured, it expired and you had to go for it again. It was hard, yes, I don't argue, but not anymore.

I would have gladly exchange frags for bow on my magsorc any day.

Yes, ranged magblades struggle against certain reflect and shimmering builds, and maybe, against dodge rollers, but who doesn't? Moreover, in most situations you can just cloak away from things which you can't kill 1vs1 (while that warden will sit on you until his friends arrive when you play magsorc).

The only hard part is not to die to other hard-hitting classes (since you wear light armor and don't have that large shileds), but, well, I'm not claiming that magblade is the easiest class to play, but certainly not the hardest.

Btw, I have rank 32 magblade (not main), so I know what am I talking about.

technohic

Assasin will change has actually made it worse IMO; if we are talking ranged magblade. Light attack weave was already a bit off with siphon but now it’s super clunky and takes on average longer to proc. If you cloak too long or your target cloaks too long; the buffs gone; it reset. Get into a LOS fight which is kind of a thing for a LA magblade; you risk resetting it. In group fights where targets die everywhere; it will reset. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows.

It does hit harder than frags and Incap is really powerful for cheap if you go for melee range and FWIW; going melee is probably easier.

Maulkin

Lord-Otto wrote: »

On the matter of sorc burst being sooo easy, you biased buffoons:

A sorc burst requires exact four seconds of exact preparation: Curse-Fury-CC-Frag. Four seconds that have to play out exactly like this. You have to shield, you got CC'ed, the enemy LoS'ed, etc, just ONCE and the burst and four seconds are completely wasted. The timer nature of Curse is indeed a curse.

Magblades have the burst on demand. You can hold the bow for 20 seconds, and it deals as much damage as Curse and Frag combined. So whenever the stars don't align for you, you can just wait without a loss. And don't get started on Fear's buggy CC. Thanks to the animation, where other CCs give you only one guaranteed follow-up, Fear gives you two. Hardly skilled gameplay here.
You're just greedy for firing your "ultimate" bow every five seconds, and now want to talk people into believing this would be a burden and magblades super complicated to play. Me and my magblade know better.

Get off of your high horses, magblades, they're just a bunch of crutches tied together. In no way is magblade play difficult to execute. And sorc burst requires extreme precision against competent players, which I think is a big reason they struggle so much in competitive duelling scenes.

Correct. It's not even comparable at the moment. The only thing NBs have to time together is an Ultimate, a CC and Assassin's Will all of which are not on any timer since the Will changes.

Meteor->Fear->Will....or Incap->Will on non-blocking targets...or Fear->Soul Harvest->Will on blocking targets... or Flame Reach->Will->Soul Assault. So many options. All very easy to get off now. Very hard to disrupt or interrupt the NBs burst rotation.

And let's not talk about the constant Maim with Shadow Image, root+slow with Cripple and Defile with Incap... all of which mount to higher pressure and mobility by the mageblade and allow much better control of any fights.

With the changes to WIll and fixes to Shadow Image, magblade is now top tier. Sorc burst is far, far below. Below Stamdens, Mageblades, Stamplars and StamBlades. But potatoes still get triggered by Sorcs bunny hopping while spamming shields or because they see Mage's Wrath in their death recap.

Pijng

diplomatt wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

For magblade...uh, I thought magblade are beasts now, so who tf are sorcs for them?

Have u played manablade?

Only a bomb one (so it doesnt count) . Wanna say magblades are *** vs msorcs? If yes – ok, I'll agree

try to play it seriously in different builds, different situations, u will wonder how uncomfortable is it.
Strong? Yes, Beast? No.
Not because of luck of burst, but because of how much more complicated are combos.
In hard situations in eso or life in general mostly win simplier one.
Until u're automat with perfect ping.
Even after some improvement to mersiless resolve...u still need to do actions very fast and presisely as hell.
Sorc burst is easier, almost all it's kinds (except Blobsky's way of stun provided by pet idk:))

Feanor wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Detect pots don’t help, stop spreading that nonsense. If you pop a nightblade with detect, cloak still hands him 100% dodge chance for another second or two even if he’s visible. Then he’s gone.

lol. + u have mage light, *** but working expert hunter, aoe-s, ground etc. part of game play man.
+ bugged cloak stop working with a huge amount of not intended things.
+ Yesterday I logged as manasorc to cyrodill and many times saw that enemy nighbklade's stealth was broke without any special things from my side, simply light attacks weaving, why...zenimax "cool" job...

Feanor wrote: »

Shields are part of the gameplay too and have counters. If you don’t know how to do it „it is a huge your own problem“.
Seriously, the amount of double standards applied is breathtaking.

what double standarts u found here? Did I said somewhere that shields are not part of the game? Explain this "breathtaking" please

Because especially Nightblades always claim that
...
Just skim through some NB balance threads and see how ridiculous some of the suggestions there are.

Same as ridiculous are some suggestions in this thread.
I think its not the reason to write about double standarts applied to me.

I like to play nighblade as one of my characters, but not stucked in it.
My main is stam dk from ~august 2014, have both templars (stamplar maybe my the strongest one now, made a good unusual build for previous patch), both wardens (i compared them with another classes a lot), both nighblades (don't enjoy stamnb, maybe because its 2 simple idk), manasorc (still have no inspiration to buy slot and create stamsorc). I don't pretent to be very nice at them. But learned to play each one very attentive. Strong sides, weak sides, broken things, overpowered things. Tryed absolutly various builds.
My goal is general balance to have fun on every class. Without OP-ness of one of them. I want interesting different fights, I like a pure process.

That's why your words are incorrect. Don't tie me please to the ghosts of imagination

I'd like to play non-bomb magblade, but not with my current pc specs... Mb in march I'll give it a try after some little upgrade ;p

Qbiken

Rework implosion into something less RNG-ish :P

And maybe do something about shieldstacking (and compensate sorc with something)

Otherwise sorcs are ok

Aedaryl

Qbiken wrote: »

Rework implosion into something less RNG-ish :P

And maybe do something about shieldstacking (and compensate sorc with something)

Otherwise sorcs are ok

Sorc aren't ok since sorc can't compete with stamina.

Qbiken

Aedaryl wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Rework implosion into something less RNG-ish :P

And maybe do something about shieldstacking (and compensate sorc with something)

Otherwise sorcs are ok

Sorc aren't ok since sorc can't compete with stamina.

I don´t know what you use as preference to say that magsorcs isn´t competitive, would like to hear more tbh :P

In PvE magicka is in general far behind stamina (aside from magblade) but that´s mainly due to weapons like the vMA bow overperforming since day 1.

Í don´t necessary feel magsorcs need buffs (maybe a few tweaks here and there, like all other classes), but certain stamina classes and gear needs to be tuned down a notch.

Malamar1229

Minalan spends more time on his arse than on the carpet when it comes to forum sarcasm.

Malamar1229

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Aedaryl

Malamar1229 wrote: »

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Can you enlighten me ?

Lord-Otto

Aedaryl wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Can you enlighten me ?

Bet it's uninterruptable Conversion, which is actually somewhat true.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Can you enlighten me ?

Bet it's uninterruptable Conversion, which is actually somewhat true.

Because sorcs used to use dark conversion/deal right in your face? As far as I know every somewhat competent sorc used LoS before they used d/c - which in turn already left you unable to interrupt.

Lord-Otto

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Can you enlighten me ?

Bet it's uninterruptable Conversion, which is actually somewhat true.

Because sorcs used to use dark conversion/deal right in your face? As far as I know every somewhat competent sorc used LoS before they used d/c - which in turn already left you unable to interrupt.

Yeah, that's a point. But it could sometimes be very difficult to pull of against a Forward Momentum Speed Pot stam build while snared.

Joy_Division

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Can you enlighten me ?

Bet it's uninterruptable Conversion, which is actually somewhat true.

Not sure about that. Good sorcs rarely were interrupted with that skill in the first place.

Lord-Otto

Hm...

Feanor

I guess the buff is Miat‘s notifications no longer working. In 2018 that’s considered a Sorc class buff. Go figure.

Minalan

Aedaryl wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

PS sorcs got a huge buff this update

Can you enlighten me ?

He’s probably referring to Miats being dead, and actually being able to land a crystal frag shot.