Remove cloak completely

JobooAGS

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Cloak is underpowerer, needs a buff. Maybe give it cc and snare immunity, along with spell power buff and a burst heal.

Heck yeah! Also add major expidition and invisible eye of the storm!

Im sure that was satire... cloak needs neither nerfs nor buffs

Datthaw

JobooAGS wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Cloak is underpowerer, needs a buff. Maybe give it cc and snare immunity, along with spell power buff and a burst heal.

Heck yeah! Also add major expidition and invisible eye of the storm!

Im sure that was satire... cloak needs neither nerfs nor buffs

Booo. That nonsense dosent have a place in this thread. Pfff fine as it is, it needs major force too, its tooweak as is

deepseamk20b14_ESO

JobooAGS wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Cloak is underpowerer, needs a buff. Maybe give it cc and snare immunity, along with spell power buff and a burst heal.

Heck yeah! Also add major expidition and invisible eye of the storm!

Im sure that was satire... cloak needs neither nerfs nor buffs

I’m glad you caught that. Sarcasm tends to fly over most people’s heads in the forums.

xeNNNNN

frozywozy wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

"The fact is, the class is much easier to master than any other out there and is also the most forgiving because of all the options you have to reset the fight."


Errrr no. No its not. Especially for bombblades because its very much about actually killing whole zergs and getting out alive so you can do it again while at the same time its rather difficult against experienced groups.

Do you realize the irony in your statement? You just confirmed that the class can kill a whole zerg if played correctly. Which other class can achieve this and which class can have the slightest chance of escaping after messing up?

(Note; Some of this is not directed at you though it probably came across as such its more frustration generally, mostly the bit about sorcs; That said I will say I didnt appreciate the gif you posted so you'll understand the tone + I wont apologise for that but I will apologise for the wall of text - I highly advice you roll a magblade, its no where as easy as you think).

You do realise that this argument (which ive heard way too many times before) only works when the people you're bombing or fighting generally arent very bright. It DOES take skill to deal with organised groups solo or in a duo. Why? because they know its coming. If you wiped them you played well, if they killed you before you even tethered you screwed up and considering how laggy the server is and how impossible it is to get abilities off half the time in vivec yes it very much does take some skill and a brain.

So what if it can kill whole zergs, the end result is not the same as getting too that result. I have seen so many "bombers" completely mess up against just 2-3 people and still get absolutely destroyed. Anyone who says or implies that it takes no skill too SUCESSFULLY bomb large organised groups and time it near perfect everytime is ignorant of the reality of fighting organised large scale groups, especially with the earthgore crap everywhere making it near impossible sometimes.

I am not talking about dealing with zergs on flags or repairing doors here I am talking about dealing with them on the move now. Anyone can bomb flags and doors. But dealing with organised groups when you're alone or just you and another while they're on the move and constantly buffing? If you dont time that right you're screwed. Hell if you dont time it right and miss tether on the healers you'll fail immediately.

P.s that slightest chance of escaping is near non-existant so thats a mute point considering how many things bring you out of stealth especially in the middle of zergs. So what if nightblades can escape, how much does that save nightblades in large scale scenarios? between seige AoEs and Oil and general player AoEs ... the list goes on...virtually 70% of the things used in cyrodil currently takes you out of stealth.

I also like how Its totally fine for sorcs to constantly 1vX with their bs nuke builds but then its totally not "skillful" to obliterate an organised group through timing, prep and a good knowledge of buffs how long they'll last on your target before you can go in. Unbelievable. The arrogance is ridiculous.

Raudgrani

Have you actually tried running around in Cyrodiil in light or even medium divines/infused armor, having like 20k health? And are you aware that cloak is broken from someone like sneezing in your general direction? That there are detect pots, magelight, AOE, Revealing Flare etc? Lightning Form, and Volatile Armor ain't exactly NB/Cloak friendly either. And how many times can a stamina NB generally actually cloak? 3-5 times, depending on magicka recovery of course?

As a NB life isn't all happy days, self healing pretty much sucks if you can't go siphoning on someone, and they don't have these insane damage shields either; so I don't think it's too much to ask that you actually can "mitigate" damage by actually avoiding it. If they fail their gank, many NB's pull out pretty quickly. And if you can't handle a NB that didn't already kill you (you say they cloak and burst you over and over again), you really need to learn how to play. If they ambush you over and over again, it's because you do nothing to scare them away.

There are easy ways to counter NB terrorism, I assure you that. I've both successfully countered them as a non-NB, and been successfully countered playing as a NB.

olsborg

Im maining a nb, and I dont really use cloak for anything other then: Avoiding or escaping zerg tryhard.

I dont use cloak that often or at all in combat scenarios so I would be fine with cloak being changed into something else. Perhaps a 10s duration snare and root immunity. Each morph special effects are kept ie crit or minor protection as it is now.

DemonDruaga

Just roll stam sorc, use tornado and go ahead on your NB hunting.
They can't really cloak and your faster so most of em will come here stating how OP sorc is.

Nerf sorc shields

Lieblingsjunge

Cloak, I don't mind. Just remove Sneak in PvP. Problem solved - and since you teleport in sneak(not walking) usually, maybe that's a cause of latency <3333333333

jhharvest

Raudgrani wrote: »

Have you actually tried running around in Cyrodiil in light or even medium divines/infused armor, having like 20k health?

Why do you think NBs should be good to run in light / medium divines / infused with 20k health? That should be suicide for every class equally. Yes, sorcs too. "Wear at least 4 impen and try to run at least 25k health." Right?

rivenjr

Remove cloak and you’re gonna have to just delete the entire nightblade class. But you would like that wouldn’t you?

Look, just level up your own nightblade. You’ll learn that it’s not so easy to stay in cloak. Drink a potion, proc a poison or have an enchant go off and you’ll be seen immediately.

OR... just spam caltrops. Revealing Flare is also good to expose those ninjas but takes a bit more skill. You could also use... wait for it... Detection potions!! Gasp!! Big surprise there.

Ragnaroek93

rivenjr wrote: »

Remove cloak and you’re gonna have to just delete the entire nightblade class. But you would like that wouldn’t you?

Look, just level up your own nightblade. You’ll learn that it’s not so easy to stay in cloak. Drink a potion, proc a poison or have an enchant go off and you’ll be seen immediately.

OR... just spam caltrops. Revealing Flare is also good to expose those ninjas but takes a bit more skill. You could also use... wait for it... Detection potions!! Gasp!! Big surprise there.

The OP is actually playing nb since beta. Just saying.

Drdeath20

xeNNNNN wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

"The fact is, the class is much easier to master than any other out there and is also the most forgiving because of all the options you have to reset the fight."


Errrr no. No its not. Especially for bombblades because its very much about actually killing whole zergs and getting out alive so you can do it again while at the same time its rather difficult against experienced groups.

Do you realize the irony in your statement? You just confirmed that the class can kill a whole zerg if played correctly. Which other class can achieve this and which class can have the slightest chance of escaping after messing up?

(Note; Some of this is not directed at you though it probably came across as such its more frustration generally, mostly the bit about sorcs; That said I will say I didnt appreciate the gif you posted so you'll understand the tone + I wont apologise for that but I will apologise for the wall of text - I highly advice you roll a magblade, its no where as easy as you think).

You do realise that this argument (which ive heard way too many times before) only works when the people you're bombing or fighting generally arent very bright. It DOES take skill to deal with organised groups solo or in a duo. Why? because they know its coming. If you wiped them you played well, if they killed you before you even tethered you screwed up and considering how laggy the server is and how impossible it is to get abilities off half the time in vivec yes it very much does take some skill and a brain.

So what if it can kill whole zergs, the end result is not the same as getting too that result. I have seen so many "bombers" completely mess up against just 2-3 people and still get absolutely destroyed. Anyone who says or implies that it takes no skill too SUCESSFULLY bomb large organised groups and time it near perfect everytime is ignorant of the reality of fighting organised large scale groups, especially with the earthgore crap everywhere making it near impossible sometimes.

I am not talking about dealing with zergs on flags or repairing doors here I am talking about dealing with them on the move now. Anyone can bomb flags and doors. But dealing with organised groups when you're alone or just you and another while they're on the move and constantly buffing? If you dont time that right you're screwed. Hell if you dont time it right and miss tether on the healers you'll fail immediately.

P.s that slightest chance of escaping is near non-existant so thats a mute point considering how many things bring you out of stealth especially in the middle of zergs. So what if nightblades can escape, how much does that save nightblades in large scale scenarios? between seige AoEs and Oil and general player AoEs ... the list goes on...virtually 70% of the things used in cyrodil currently takes you out of stealth.

I also like how Its totally fine for sorcs to constantly 1vX with their bs nuke builds but then its totally not "skillful" to obliterate an organised group through timing, prep and a good knowledge of buffs how long they'll last on your target before you can go in. Unbelievable. The arrogance is ridiculous.

**moot point

Drdeath20

rivenjr wrote: »

Remove cloak and you’re gonna have to just delete the entire nightblade class. But you would like that wouldn’t you?

Look, just level up your own nightblade. You’ll learn that it’s not so easy to stay in cloak. Drink a potion, proc a poison or have an enchant go off and you’ll be seen immediately.

OR... just spam caltrops. Revealing Flare is also good to expose those ninjas but takes a bit more skill. You could also use... wait for it... Detection potions!! Gasp!! Big surprise there.

Why cant nightblades do like other classes did and make characters that dont solely rely on 1 skill for defense?

I get why we all use it, its OP AF but its the go to crutch.

Other classes slot sword and board for reflects, resto staff for healing, mist form for escapability or have to compromise gear and sets for survivability.

technohic

I've been contemplating running my magblade without cloak. Would wind up playing it like a poor mans sorc and running the comparisons, I don't think I would like it.

In stead of streak, it would have to be shadow image which as useful as it is, when I play sorc I really use it to zip through aggressive melee and that wont be available.

In stead of hardened ward, pretty much have to run harness magicka by itself.

Would I go fear in stead of mines or forgo that idea entirely?

Merciless resolve plays a lot like trying to proc frags. It comes out ahead in damage but its like a 20% chance opposed to 35% , but the way it stacks with light attacks now on a staff feels pretty bad man.

What would I use in place of curse? Would have to be cripple I suppose but missing that delay burst its just different.

In stead of mages fury; Impale would have to fill in as the execute but it doesn't feel nearly as good as that 4 second window to have someone get into the execute range.

Yeah, nah. Think without cloak I'd just play my sorc

frozywozy

xeNNNNN wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

"The fact is, the class is much easier to master than any other out there and is also the most forgiving because of all the options you have to reset the fight."


Errrr no. No its not. Especially for bombblades because its very much about actually killing whole zergs and getting out alive so you can do it again while at the same time its rather difficult against experienced groups.

Do you realize the irony in your statement? You just confirmed that the class can kill a whole zerg if played correctly. Which other class can achieve this and which class can have the slightest chance of escaping after messing up?

(Note; Some of this is not directed at you though it probably came across as such its more frustration generally, mostly the bit about sorcs; That said I will say I didnt appreciate the gif you posted so you'll understand the tone + I wont apologise for that but I will apologise for the wall of text - I highly advice you roll a magblade, its no where as easy as you think).

You do realise that this argument (which ive heard way too many times before) only works when the people you're bombing or fighting generally arent very bright. It DOES take skill to deal with organised groups solo or in a duo. Why? because they know its coming. If you wiped them you played well, if they killed you before you even tethered you screwed up and considering how laggy the server is and how impossible it is to get abilities off half the time in vivec yes it very much does take some skill and a brain.

So what if it can kill whole zergs, the end result is not the same as getting too that result. I have seen so many "bombers" completely mess up against just 2-3 people and still get absolutely destroyed. Anyone who says or implies that it takes no skill too SUCESSFULLY bomb large organised groups and time it near perfect everytime is ignorant of the reality of fighting organised large scale groups, especially with the earthgore crap everywhere making it near impossible sometimes.

I am not talking about dealing with zergs on flags or repairing doors here I am talking about dealing with them on the move now. Anyone can bomb flags and doors. But dealing with organised groups when you're alone or just you and another while they're on the move and constantly buffing? If you dont time that right you're screwed. Hell if you dont time it right and miss tether on the healers you'll fail immediately.

P.s that slightest chance of escaping is near non-existant so thats a mute point considering how many things bring you out of stealth especially in the middle of zergs. So what if nightblades can escape, how much does that save nightblades in large scale scenarios? between seige AoEs and Oil and general player AoEs ... the list goes on...virtually 70% of the things used in cyrodil currently takes you out of stealth.

I also like how Its totally fine for sorcs to constantly 1vX with their bs nuke builds but then its totally not "skillful" to obliterate an organised group through timing, prep and a good knowledge of buffs how long they'll last on your target before you can go in. Unbelievable. The arrogance is ridiculous.

I must agree, I'm getting very annoyed by all these posts of unexperienced players who try to teach me the most simplistic concepts about the game. I am open to advices and ideas in general but when it is being said this way, it sounds arrogant and toxic. What is your /played ? How many pvp toons do you have max alliance rank ? What is your best killing streak ? What is your best AP streak ? Have you ever fought in a 12-16men group, isolated from your faction entirely and facing both enemy factions stacked at one location and destroying them all to gain a massive 50k+ offensive tick ? You are talking about arrogance. Look in the mirror. Again, your point of view is most welcome in this thread but don't speak like you posses the ultimate thruth and we shall bow before you. Also, stop bringing back this argument that if I don't play a nightblade myself, I shall stay quiet and listen to all you AR20s /played 60days wannabes.

Drdeath20

technohic wrote: »

I've been contemplating running my magblade without cloak. Would wind up playing it like a poor mans sorc and running the comparisons, I don't think I would like it.

In stead of streak, it would have to be shadow image which as useful as it is, when I play sorc I really use it to zip through aggressive melee and that wont be available.

In stead of hardened ward, pretty much have to run harness magicka by itself.

Would I go fear in stead of mines or forgo that idea entirely?

Merciless resolve plays a lot like trying to proc frags. It comes out ahead in damage but its like a 20% chance opposed to 35% , but the way it stacks with light attacks now on a staff feels pretty bad man.

What would I use in place of curse? Would have to be cripple I suppose but missing that delay burst its just different.

In stead of mages fury; Impale would have to fill in as the execute but it doesn't feel nearly as good as that 4 second window to have someone get into the execute range.

Yeah, nah. Think without cloak I'd just play my sorc

And thats the point. Its funny bcz ive literally seen people try saying mag sorcs need a buff and im like every other class has less of a toolkit than a sorc does. Every other class is like sorc lite. Like yeah you can play that way but you are just inferior to a sorc.

Kuramas9tails

My cloak is what takes down enemy forward camps and then watch a group follow me to kill me while the forward camp burns to the ground. Satisfying. Or reverse, it helps me get away to put up a forward camp.

technohic

Drdeath20 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I've been contemplating running my magblade without cloak. Would wind up playing it like a poor mans sorc and running the comparisons, I don't think I would like it.

In stead of streak, it would have to be shadow image which as useful as it is, when I play sorc I really use it to zip through aggressive melee and that wont be available.

In stead of hardened ward, pretty much have to run harness magicka by itself.

Would I go fear in stead of mines or forgo that idea entirely?

Merciless resolve plays a lot like trying to proc frags. It comes out ahead in damage but its like a 20% chance opposed to 35% , but the way it stacks with light attacks now on a staff feels pretty bad man.

What would I use in place of curse? Would have to be cripple I suppose but missing that delay burst its just different.

In stead of mages fury; Impale would have to fill in as the execute but it doesn't feel nearly as good as that 4 second window to have someone get into the execute range.

Yeah, nah. Think without cloak I'd just play my sorc

And thats the point. Its funny bcz ive literally seen people try saying mag sorcs need a buff and im like every other class has less of a toolkit than a sorc does. Every other class is like sorc lite. Like yeah you can play that way but you are just inferior to a sorc.

But this is me trying to do a magblade without cloak so of course it falls short. Cloak allows me to not have to keep spamming shields as a defense; move without getting ganked when I know there are gankers around; line up and boost my burst combo. Then I have melee options where a sorc does not and thats why I mention losing that stun on streak when a melee character is on me is so huge.

If you're asking me from the 3 classes I have played most; Sorc and NB offers me an even tradeoff for fun to which I like. Both offer a different playstyle that is fun to me My Templar however, that I have mained since beta; I mean it can still be strong and some will argue stronger in battlefields that sorc, and people are still out to nerf templar as well in spots but to me its been neutered over the years and has lost a lot of fun. I don't want to see all the other classes like that. I mean; I lose all the time to magdks and really need to figure them out on my NB and Sorc; but Im not going to come complain about them very often. I try to keep my frustration to myself and get better.

Katahdin

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

The op is right guys I have been playing a Stam nb since beta and I still haven’t died. My kill counter says 3,500,000 kills and 0 deaths In cyrodiil.
True story

Git gud scrub

jhharvest

rivenjr wrote: »

Remove cloak and you’re gonna have to just delete the entire nightblade class. But you would like that wouldn’t you?

Look, just level up your own nightblade. You’ll learn that it’s not so easy to stay in cloak. Drink a potion, proc a poison or have an enchant go off and you’ll be seen immediately.

OR... just spam caltrops. Revealing Flare is also good to expose those ninjas but takes a bit more skill. You could also use... wait for it... Detection potions!! Gasp!! Big surprise there.

Funny enough, following a discussion in another thread I've wound up playing only NB myself so I have access to Piercing Mark. I don't have cloak slotted tho.

Also, Revealing Flare is the worst skill in the game.

Datthaw

Cloak needa buff. Give it a burst heal and let it break cc and snares with 20 second immunity. Also it needs major exp, and major force

LittlePinkDot

This post is irrelevent. Cloak is required for PVE, and this game is mainly PVE. ZoS makes the most money off pve DLCs. They are never going to remove cloak.
And as for sneak not requiring cover, theres nothing they can do about that without breaking the thieves guild DLC.

Rowjoh

Posts like this should be nerfed.

The whole premise is so utterly ridiculous, it's gotta be trolling.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Rowjoh wrote: »

Posts like this should be nerfed.

The whole premise is so utterly ridiculous, it's gotta be trolling.

Atleast say why it is ridiculous.

Cloak is god mode open world.

CyrusArya

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Atleast say why it is ridiculous.

Cloak is god mode open world.

Cus it’s not. There’s plenty of counters.

Dojohoda

Remove cloak in PVP?
A player can choose to use it or not. I would not like to see the choice removed.

The discussion point is what should nightblades get as a replacement for cloak.

Currently we get either minor protection or guaranteed crit depending on the morph chosen.

Hmmm, how about something comparable such as Purge or ???. I don't know. Sorry man, I can't think of anything to replace the guaranteed crit.

AddictionX

idk nightblade does have access to a ton of buffs. Yes, even more than warden. @ZoS listen, some nightblades consider all your spoon fed buffs not enough to make the class viable with out 1 skill. That's fine by me.

I'd take those buffs and you can keep cloak

ktdotexe

[deleted]

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

PetiteFire wrote: »

^This.

If OP is actually being serious and not trolling... I fear for the general IQ of today's players.

Why did you have to bring up IQ... Know you just tempted me to make a fool of you and myself by posting an image of legit IQ test. But since i'm not at my PC i wont do that now atleast.

Seriously though, cloak is messed up OP.

IZZEFlameLash

Cloak isn't OP. While annoying to deal with especially with the experienced NBs, but not OP. And personal attacks on IQ level is gonna bode well... lol. I think they might survive just as well as sorcs if cloak got the such treatment given to streak. But I don't know. Cloak doesn't seem that OP.