Remove cloak completely

Curragraigue

No

OdinForge

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade, you should make one in medium armor and play with cloak. Before making threads demanding they remove cloak.

I'll await your inevitable "Fix cloak from breaking constantly" thread.

Mojomonkeyman

OdinForge wrote: »

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade, you should make one in medium armor and play with cloak. Before making threads demanding they remove cloak.

I'll await your inevitable "Fix cloak from breaking constantly" thread.

OP is actually a PvP nightblade since Beta who knows how to handle his class. Your reply to OP based on assumptions tells a lot more about you and your attitude than OPs initial post does about him.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

dotme

Stamina Nightblades are stealthy, single target, assassins. Wearing medium armor, cloak is one of the only "shields" available. It should stay exactly as it is. If OP is really a Nightblade and thinks that cloak is bad for PvP, perhaps he/she should simply take it of their bar. Problem solved.

OdinForge

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade, you should make one in medium armor and play with cloak. Before making threads demanding they remove cloak.

I'll await your inevitable "Fix cloak from breaking constantly" thread.

OP is actually a PvP nightblade since Beta who knows how to handle his class. Your reply to OP based on assumptions tells a lot more about you and your attitude than OPs initial post does about him.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

My reply wasn't an assumption, it was a suggestion. Since I don't know if the OP has a NB or not, I specifically included the below in my post. If I were to assume that the OP didn't have a NB, my message would have read like "OP make a NB and play with cloak before demanding it be removed".

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade

You were so eager to reply to me, you didn't even read my message properly.

So you cannot say this.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

When you don't even read responses properly*?

Mojomonkeyman

OdinForge wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade, you should make one in medium armor and play with cloak. Before making threads demanding they remove cloak.

I'll await your inevitable "Fix cloak from breaking constantly" thread.

OP is actually a PvP nightblade since Beta who knows how to handle his class. Your reply to OP based on assumptions tells a lot more about you and your attitude than OPs initial post does about him.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

My reply wasn't an assumption, it was a suggestion. Since I don't know if the OP has a NB or not, I specifically included the below in my post. If I were to assume that the OP didn't have a NB, my message would have read like "OP make a NB and play with cloak before demanding it be removed".

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade

You were so eager to reply to me, you didn't even read my message properly.

So you cannot say this.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

When you don't even read responses properly*?

Well, your belittleing tone was based on an assumption you made. You didn't even consider to have a discussion on the actual point OP was trying to make but instead insisted on giving "suggestions" therefore implying he lacks inside knowledge. Where do you get the idea from I missed your "if"?

idk

Talcyndl wrote: »

The problem with the existing cloak arises in small scale fights. Even on a Stamblade, cloak allows complete control of the fight. The NB can disengage at will. A competently built and played NB can heal while cloaked and then reengage with a huge attack bonus. They can do this repeatedly over the course of a fight.

Talcyndl wrote: »

The problem with the existing cloak arises in small scale fights. Even on a Stamblade, cloak allows complete control of the fight. The NB can disengage at will. A competently built and played NB can heal while cloaked and then reengage with a huge attack bonus. They can do this repeatedly over the course of a fight.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade, you should make one in medium armor and play with cloak. Before making threads demanding they remove cloak.

I'll await your inevitable "Fix cloak from breaking constantly" thread.

OP is actually a PvP nightblade since Beta who knows how to handle his class. Your reply to OP based on assumptions tells a lot more about you and your attitude than OPs initial post does about him.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

Wait. OP has played a NB since launch and is challenged countering an NB using NB skills? I've found in pretty much every MMO I learn much about countering a class by playing it some. Odd.

technohic

Venom4You wrote: »

Imo cloak is fine because it defines the nightblade class.
Regular sneak on the other hand... could be removed from pvp entirely No more sneaking zergs, no more bating with half an army in sneak as backup, no more gankers waiting in regular sneak for so on horseback. Everyone would always know what he is up against.
That change wouldn't ruin NBs. Because their capability not to be seen, to disappear or to flee from a fight would now simply have to match their magicka pool. No more endless invisible waiting or two cloaks into regular sneak to escape a turning battle! Yeah I could like a change like that!

The minute sneak is removed is the exact moment that any small group will be obliterated by just happening across a zerg.

OdinForge

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade, you should make one in medium armor and play with cloak. Before making threads demanding they remove cloak.

I'll await your inevitable "Fix cloak from breaking constantly" thread.

OP is actually a PvP nightblade since Beta who knows how to handle his class. Your reply to OP based on assumptions tells a lot more about you and your attitude than OPs initial post does about him.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

My reply wasn't an assumption, it was a suggestion. Since I don't know if the OP has a NB or not, I specifically included the below in my post. If I were to assume that the OP didn't have a NB, my message would have read like "OP make a NB and play with cloak before demanding it be removed".

OP if you don't currently have a nightblade

You were so eager to reply to me, you didn't even read my message properly.

So you cannot say this.

Unfortunately, this game's community seems unable to discuss objectively but insists on painting the world black or white.

When you don't even read responses properly*?

Well, your belittleing tone was based on an assumption you made. You didn't even consider to have a discussion on the actual point OP was trying to make but instead insisted on giving "suggestions" therefore implying he lacks inside knowledge. Where do you get the idea from I missed your "if"?

Sorry but next time you should read my post better, no assumption was made on my end. There is no logical discussion to be had right now, with someone suggesting that cloak be removed, because he thinks its current use is not strategic.

OP -

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: burst->cloak->burst->cloak etc etc.
Very few nb actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

This is all just opinion. Cloak is a survival tool for NB, one used offensively and defensively. Cloak is both an important tool for setting up burst, and taking pressure off your resources.

It is unfathomable to me how anyone can suggest removing cloak in the current meta. Where medium armor is the weakest it has ever been, with so many undodgable abilities and unavoidable damage. Where playing a light armor magnb gets you snared and rooted into oblivion, and someone can hard counter you if cloak is on your bar just by using a detect pot.

OP -

It is just not satisfying to fight cloak spamming nb's, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

The sake of the PvP community or the sake of OP, does OP speak for everyone now? I play almost every class and NB is no more standout to me than any other class.

OP -

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.
Just a thought, can be whatever - come with ideas about what to grant.

Is NB supposed to play like a ghetto stamplar now?

CromulentForumID

Vapirko wrote: »

I really don’t say this ever, but this legit sounds like you got your ass kicked by one too many NBs and is a l2p issue. NB is just one of the classes I play so having played as one and against many, cloak is not OP. There are many hard counters to cloak including detect pots, magelight, hurricane, jabs, sub assault, mark target, caltrops, and DKs explosive armor or whatever it’s called, and these are just a few. Have you ever tried slotting a skill that works against cloak?

Note: stop chasing stamblades off into the distance.

But, he's tried nothing, and he's all out of ideas!

HaroniNDeorum

Zos should make cloak as Streak, increase the cost 50% if used in less than 4 seconds. Its bs the spamm of that ability without penalty.

JobooAGS

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Zos should make cloak as Streak, increase the cost 50% if used in less than 4 seconds. Its bs the spamm of that ability without penalty.

If it would work, then sure

CromulentForumID

technohic wrote: »

Venom4You wrote: »

Imo cloak is fine because it defines the nightblade class.
Regular sneak on the other hand... could be removed from pvp entirely No more sneaking zergs, no more bating with half an army in sneak as backup, no more gankers waiting in regular sneak for so on horseback. Everyone would always know what he is up against.
That change wouldn't ruin NBs. Because their capability not to be seen, to disappear or to flee from a fight would now simply have to match their magicka pool. No more endless invisible waiting or two cloaks into regular sneak to escape a turning battle! Yeah I could like a change like that!

The minute sneak is removed is the exact moment that any small group will be obliterated by just happening across a zerg.

I am not sure this problem is worse than the "20 people crouched invisibly in an open field" absurdity.

It'd be nice if sneak required at least some kind of cover or shadow.

martinhpb16_ESO

Just ban the nightblade class altogether right?

Just seems like folks dont want any skills that puts their class at a disadvantage. Its paper, scissors, stones out here and you just have to adapt to survive and l2p to win.

Sneak is an integral part of pvp and not just in this game. Its been around since this guy



and since when we played with these

montjie

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

martinhpb16_ESO

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Zos should make cloak as Streak, increase the cost 50% if used in less than 4 seconds. Its bs the spamm of that ability without penalty.

No. The day that cloak is removed or gimped in pvp is the day I leave ESO for another game.

dotme

montjie wrote: »

If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

That's part of the game - Not every class can take out another class when solo. That's why group play with a combination of DPS, heals, tanks etc always works better in Cyrodiil. It could be, for example, that if you run with a nightblade in your group, you may have more luck killing them. Nightblades have piercing mark at their disposal. It works really well

Datthaw

Buy your cheap ass some detect pots, nb's are glass cannons. No cloak = death. Everyone just comes here to cry about things ththat don't need to be fixed or have easy counters.


BUY SOME DETECT POTS FFS

idk

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Zos should make cloak as Streak, increase the cost 50% if used in less than 4 seconds. Its bs the spamm of that ability without penalty.

No at all. Zos made it so we can prevent the use of cloak all together. Just because some choose to not use the counters and others haven't figured out how to use the counters effectively doesn't mean there is a problem. It's better to bring people uo than the game down.

DocFrost72

How

DocFrost72

About

DocFrost72

No?

montjie

dotme wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

That's part of the game - Not every class can take out another class when solo. That's why group play with a combination of DPS, heals, tanks etc always works better in Cyrodiil. It could be, for example, that if you run with a nightblade in your group, you may have more luck killing them. Nightblades have piercing mark at their disposal. It works really well

I understand what you're trying to say but its not completely true. Player conditions (skill, level, cp), gearsets and such aside, any class can defeat another class in ESO with nightblades being the only exception.
If you can touch it, you can beat it but how are you supposed to kill something you can't touch? Im simplifying alot but u get the idea xD

I agree however with the idea of grouping up with players having versatile setups to cover different types of encounters ingame being a good idea. I mean who wouldnt lol

Piercing mark does not take nightblades out of cloak, it prevents them from turning invisible. Its a nice counter to cloakspammers indeed but didnt fit in my list which consists of abilities to use after cloak has already been activated.

I dont think many players have problems fighting a nighblade who doesnt (ab)use the cloaking mechanisme tbh. I for one dont no matter what class I play. Its when they take away your ability to return fire simply by continually pressing one button and you having no choice but to take it, thats where the problem starts.

lao

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay, there is not a single class or build in the game that does not have access to tools that let them beat Cloak.

Play a nightblade vs bad players, and they won't be able to touch you, play one vs good players, and cloak becomes little more than a crit chance buff

it is not rly about good or bad players. its about are you willing to go out of your way to deal with it by running detect pots which wastes a full potion cooldown that could give you a generelly more valuable feat than detection does or are you willing to sacrifice a slot to run something like magelight/caltrops/whatever other field aoe you wanna use or are you just gonna chase them around till they make a mistake and you can burst them down in one go. imo cloak by itself is fine. the only thing they should maybe change about it is to make it slightly more expensive to use so it becomes more of a strategical tool rather than something bad NB´s can spam to get out of trouble. another option would be to keep the cost but introduce a mechanic that makes it progressively more expensive if you use it within short time intervals similar to dodge roll. maybe that would even be the better option cos it would raise the skill ceiling to find the perfect balance between avoiding attacks by cloaking and dodging without burning either of the ressource pools too hard.

for example if a NB builds in a way so he barely survives even the biggest bursts and gets to cloak at 5% health only to return with full health 3 seconds later repeatably in a 1v1 till he eventually gets the kill is one of the main reason why so many ppl hate fighting the class. at this point it simply becomes a cheap trick to survive situations where any other class would have died.

dotme

montjie wrote: »

I dont think many players have problems fighting a nighblade who doesnt (ab)use the cloaking mechanisme tbh. I for one dont no matter what class I play. Its when they take away your ability to return fire simply by continually pressing one button and you having no choice but to take it, thats where the problem starts.

Well, from my experience, while a Sorc (for example) can have shields up while attacking, nightblades are out of stealth the moment they attack. There's no ability to remain invisible while firing an offensive skill. I don't mind nightblades because when I'm on mine, I see 'em, mark 'em, and then kill 'em. It's a challenge, but it's fun (unlike chasing tanks round and round trees or rocks... I usually just walk away from that... lol). Magelight is also a big stealth-killer/counter for NBs who like to lurk inside keeps. Caltrops work well out in the field.

I think anyone who PvPs runs into frustrating builds and situations. I know I do. I have trouble when on my NB bursting down a tank with 70K health, or a sorc with stacked shields totalling 30K or more on top of their health. I don't want them nerfed though. I'm okay with not being able to kill everyone who comes my way. I choose my targets carefully, and try not to get over-extended in any situation because with no shields and medium armor, I sure do die quickly

CavalryPK

o boy. cloak is the best skill for medium armor stamblades to reset fights. literally every time. If you take that away .... stamblade meta will have to change drastically

technohic

montjie wrote: »

dotme wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

That's part of the game - Not every class can take out another class when solo. That's why group play with a combination of DPS, heals, tanks etc always works better in Cyrodiil. It could be, for example, that if you run with a nightblade in your group, you may have more luck killing them. Nightblades have piercing mark at their disposal. It works really well

I understand what you're trying to say but its not completely true. Player conditions (skill, level, cp), gearsets and such aside, any class can defeat another class in ESO with nightblades being the only exception.
If you can touch it, you can beat it but how are you supposed to kill something you can't touch? Im simplifying alot but u get the idea xD

I agree however with the idea of grouping up with players having versatile setups to cover different types of encounters ingame being a good idea. I mean who wouldnt lol

Piercing mark does not take nightblades out of cloak, it prevents them from turning invisible. Its a nice counter to cloakspammers indeed but didnt fit in my list which consists of abilities to use after cloak has already been activated.

I dont think many players have problems fighting a nighblade who doesnt (ab)use the cloaking mechanisme tbh. I for one dont no matter what class I play. Its when they take away your ability to return fire simply by continually pressing one button and you having no choice but to take it, thats where the problem starts.

So no one can be bothered to run detect pots, could I not be bothered to run anything other than ranged magblade and therefor not be able to hurt a DK or Warden with reflect?

Venom4You

technohic wrote: »

Venom4You wrote: »

Imo cloak is fine because it defines the nightblade class.
Regular sneak on the other hand... could be removed from pvp entirely No more sneaking zergs, no more bating with half an army in sneak as backup, no more gankers waiting in regular sneak for so on horseback. Everyone would always know what he is up against.
That change wouldn't ruin NBs. Because their capability not to be seen, to disappear or to flee from a fight would now simply have to match their magicka pool. No more endless invisible waiting or two cloaks into regular sneak to escape a turning battle! Yeah I could like a change like that!

The minute sneak is removed is the exact moment that any small group will be obliterated by just happening across a zerg.

When I used to small scale I rather suffered from not being able to assess how many people I am up against. My group of 3 would see 8 people on a lumber mill just to attack and realise that 8 more were sitting around in sneak. If I had to chose between the stealth benefit sneak granted my small scale group and the possible benefits of it actually being removed outweigh them by far imo.
But ultimately removing sneak was not part of this thread so I want to apologize for going off topic

technohic

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs,
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

You also miss some with Templars, Unstable core (I spam that on NBs), blazing spear, solar barrage is possible if a NB is trying to sneak in for melee for some reason,

Sorcs have curse which a lot of NBs absolutely hate.

EDIT:

Caltrops
Volley
Impulse

technohic

Venom4You wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Venom4You wrote: »

Imo cloak is fine because it defines the nightblade class.
Regular sneak on the other hand... could be removed from pvp entirely No more sneaking zergs, no more bating with half an army in sneak as backup, no more gankers waiting in regular sneak for so on horseback. Everyone would always know what he is up against.
That change wouldn't ruin NBs. Because their capability not to be seen, to disappear or to flee from a fight would now simply have to match their magicka pool. No more endless invisible waiting or two cloaks into regular sneak to escape a turning battle! Yeah I could like a change like that!

The minute sneak is removed is the exact moment that any small group will be obliterated by just happening across a zerg.

When I used to small scale I rather suffered from not being able to assess how many people I am up against. My group of 3 would see 8 people on a lumber mill just to attack and realise that 8 more were sitting around in sneak. If I had to chose between the stealth benefit sneak granted my small scale group and the possible benefits of it actually being removed outweigh them by far imo.
But ultimately removing sneak was not part of this thread so I want to apologize for going off topic

I disagree there. I have ran into that but far more often when I am by myself on any class; I see a zerg and my only chance is to crouch and sneak. I wouldn't even make it to a resources to attack anyone a lot of these times.