Remove cloak completely

VaranisArano

frozywozy wrote: »

In any case, could you tell me any other class / spec that require to slot a specific ability to counter ? Other than permablock players who can't kill anything obviously. Why would we need to sacrifice a slot to handle only one class?

About a month ago, there was a thread with magblades complaining that they had to respec completely to deal with DK wings reflecting everything they'd equipped. They had options do deal with wings, mind you, but some of the people there didn't want to slot counters that could deal with a DK who could sustain Wings.

ESO PVP is like rock, paper, scissors. If you aren't willing to slot a counter to cloak/wings/whatever your "kryptonite" skill is, you are going to continue to fail when faced with that skill.

OdinForge

VaranisArano wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

In any case, could you tell me any other class / spec that require to slot a specific ability to counter ? Other than permablock players who can't kill anything obviously. Why would we need to sacrifice a slot to handle only one class?

About a month ago, there was a thread with magblades complaining that they had to respec completely to deal with DK wings reflecting everything they'd equipped. They had options do deal with wings, mind you, but some of the people there didn't want to slot counters that could deal with a DK who could sustain Wings.

ESO PVP is like rock, paper, scissors. If you aren't willing to slot a counter to cloak/wings/whatever your "kryptonite" skill is, you are going to continue to fail when faced with that skill.

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm. Magnb will use mark for fracture.

Every magicka class can combo a detect pot + variety of things (skoria, misc item sets, eots, meteor, soul assault).

Ironically the class most screwed over by NB is stamnb. Most good stamnbs will not use mark to save a slot and since surprise attack gives fracture but isn't an aoe, most good stamnbs will have detect pots in handy. To finish the kills on a NB that tries to cloak and heal.

OdinForge

Here is an example of using a typical build kit to deal with a stamnb, without using cloak specific counters like a detect pot, revealing flare or mark target. No item set or ultimate needed, just aoe from jabs and the delayed damage from potl.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I keep coming back to this thread for the laughs. After reading the arguments, it seems the conclusion to this is:

Nightblade cloak is OP because they can run away and reset a fight whenever.

Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but one does not simply win PvP by being the master of getting away. If an NB runs away before you can kill them, guess what? You’re not dead either! Why are you complaining. I can understand the anger at getting ganker because you ACTUALLY die/lose. But if the nightblade runs away, nothing changes. He didn’t take a keep. He didn’t take a resource. The only thing damaged, quite frankly is your ego because you couldn’t kill someone when you thought you should be able to because heavens forbid you aren’t spoon fed to feel like you’re the dovahkin slaying dragon in a single player game.

Now to address “resting” the fight. If the fight resets, does your health and resources remain at whatever percentage they were or do they go back to full? I’ll answer that for you. Full. When a fight resets it isn’t just in favor of the NB. You too are also reset. Again, no loss, why the tears? He/she DIDN’T win. If they run, go ahead, take that as a win! You scared them away and you’re SO powerful they couldn’t continue the fight. If you’re having AP problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but AP ain’t one. Go take a resource and you’ve made up that pitiful amount of AP you didn’t get from killing a terrible NB.

If you cannot stop the fight before it resets maybe you are the issue? Why didn’t you plan your burst phase and CC to line up to where the NB would be dead? EXCEPTIONALLY easy on classes like mDK. I place DoTs and AoE that already make it near impossible for an NB to cloak. Get NB to 50% and leap and flame lash, NB is dead before they can do anything. On sorc the rotation is simple. Shield up if they cloak, soon as they attack and break cloak streak through and you can control the fight like this. Curse, wrath, shards, NB is dead. Every time they cloak just reapply shields and they can do [snip]. Curse keeps them from a good cloak rotation. I don’t play warden or Templar so I have no advice for those classes, though purifying light and jabs spam takes care of most noob NB’s from what I’ve seen from my buddies who play temp.

Do you want to REALLY know why ZoS hasn’t removed cloak from the game after 4 years? Because even the kings of nerf hammer know how rediculous your statements are. Get of your high horse and stop thinking it’s everyone else but you.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Master_Kas

Datthaw wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I've been saying it in every "cloak op" or "nerf nb" thread.

If you think nightblades are overpowered a d clock is some totally broken op skill, do you have a nb character? Chances are no.

If you don't have are nb and cry about how easy and op the class is, I challenge you to roll one.

I have a feeling you will find the class is not as easy as you think. Yeah cloak is a good skill but it is no way broken. Once you roll a nb you will realize that most groups run detection, pots, magelight, caltrops, mark etc etc, and they will hunt you down like a dog.

Just stop posting here. I have zero tolerance with you.
I'm trying real hard not to get banned right now.

You most likely know nothing of this game.

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

He spends most of his playtime on a nightblade actually.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Master_Kas wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I've been saying it in every "cloak op" or "nerf nb" thread.

If you think nightblades are overpowered a d clock is some totally broken op skill, do you have a nb character? Chances are no.

If you don't have are nb and cry about how easy and op the class is, I challenge you to roll one.

I have a feeling you will find the class is not as easy as you think. Yeah cloak is a good skill but it is no way broken. Once you roll a nb you will realize that most groups run detection, pots, magelight, caltrops, mark etc etc, and they will hunt you down like a dog.

Just stop posting here. I have zero tolerance with you.
I'm trying real hard not to get banned right now.

You most likely know nothing of this game.

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

He spends most of his playtime on a nightblade actually.

Screen shots or it didn’t happen!

frozywozy

Dude, you are just derailing repeatidly your own statements to try to make you sound reasonable. This is my final attempt to debate with you. I have been discussing this with logic and replying directly to your arguments.

Please try to do the same on your end.

You previously stated the following :

OdinForge wrote: »

The kinds of fights where I'd just prefer to have my stamplar with a better group comp, to nuke them with synchronized ultimates and AOE.

I then replied to you with :

frozywozy wrote: »

I never said that a stamblade by himself can perform better than a group with synchronized ultimates and AOE. I was comparing the potential of a nightblade, by himself to any other class.

And here you entirely twisted your words around coming from "better group comp" admitting you work better in a group to "versus my stamplar lining up 4 players around LOS in one DB -> jab combo." admitting that you are now reffering to you as a solo player.

Any class can zerg surf and survive, especially roachblades.

Never I was reffering about a nightblade zerg surfing on top of his faction. I have been talking about straight solo play picking up on one or multiple opponents. Again, get your facts straight and stop assuming what I'm thinking.

Shade right now is not relevant to the discussion of how OP NB has the potential to be. Shade fails approximately 100% of the time I use it,

Another toxic and frustrating comment to read. Why do you think Extasy, Miat, Hexys, Sypher, Vitae Belial, name them, use Shadow Image? It is broken yes, but it still works well if you use it correctly and make sure to not get out of LoS or out of range. It's just a matter of getting used to the bug and working accordingly. It is still worth a slot and I can't wait to show it to you next month (since you obviously refuse to admit it to defend your dear class). All great solo nightblade players will slot it, stamina and magicka.

Eternal hunt is also far from the best load-out for stamnb these days

This statement is relative to what you want to achieve as a player. I compare it to someone who would ask "What is the best class nowadays?" It all depends of your playstyle and the amount of people you play with. Eternal Hunt is the set that will help you the most against people spamming gap closers (which is the ability that will get you killed the most when you are getting zerged down). One trap may be the life saver between you getting detected after dodge rolling + cloak and getting away and resetting the fight.

Will a stamnb handle that same group while being marked just as easy, no. Will the stamplar handle the same group while being marked, yes.

This right here is something that people need to stop complaining about. A stamblade without cloak is still a class with the most minor / major buffs in the game. Is still a class with Vigor and Rally available. Is still a class who can play S&B (like Kodi has been doing recently and doing extremely well).

People build their stamblade pure glass cannon and refuse to slot shadow image or to run arcane jewelry or to add extra magicka recovery to spam cloak / fear more because of how dependant they are to cloak. Play your stamblade like any other class and you will find yourself doing perfectly fine being marked.

Master_Kas

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I've been saying it in every "cloak op" or "nerf nb" thread.

If you think nightblades are overpowered a d clock is some totally broken op skill, do you have a nb character? Chances are no.

If you don't have are nb and cry about how easy and op the class is, I challenge you to roll one.

I have a feeling you will find the class is not as easy as you think. Yeah cloak is a good skill but it is no way broken. Once you roll a nb you will realize that most groups run detection, pots, magelight, caltrops, mark etc etc, and they will hunt you down like a dog.

Just stop posting here. I have zero tolerance with you.
I'm trying real hard not to get banned right now.

You most likely know nothing of this game.

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

He spends most of his playtime on a nightblade actually.

Screen shots or it didn’t happen!

@Aelakhaii_De_Mythos Let me know if you want me to remove this :<

frozywozy

VaranisArano wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

In any case, could you tell me any other class / spec that require to slot a specific ability to counter ? Other than permablock players who can't kill anything obviously. Why would we need to sacrifice a slot to handle only one class?

About a month ago, there was a thread with magblades complaining that they had to respec completely to deal with DK wings reflecting everything they'd equipped. They had options do deal with wings, mind you, but some of the people there didn't want to slot counters that could deal with a DK who could sustain Wings.

ESO PVP is like rock, paper, scissors. If you aren't willing to slot a counter to cloak/wings/whatever your "kryptonite" skill is, you are going to continue to fail when faced with that skill.

Which ability are you talking about exactly that magblades have to slot to counter wings? I don't see it anywhere. Now ask yourself this question. Is this ability you are going to reveal to me really used only to counter that specific spec or is it also used in different scenarios against other classes and being pretty useful? Now, tell me what revealing flare is supposed to achieve against any other class? How about Radiant mage Light? How about a detect pot that put me on a 42seconds cooldown without any stamina recovery or stam return?

frozywozy

OdinForge wrote: »

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm.

Lol. All the counters you just mentioned AREN'T used restrictively to counter cloak. They all have great advantages to their class, either by dealing a great amount of damage, providing needed self buffs or by applying ccs / roots / snares.

Again, tell me what is Revealing Flare or a Detect pot going to do against any other class than a nightblade?

technohic

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm.

Lol. All the counters you just mentioned AREN'T used restrictively to counter cloak. They all have great advantages to their class, either by dealing a great amount of damage, providing needed self buffs or by applying ccs / roots / snares.

Again, tell me what is Revealing Flare or a Detect pot going to do against any other class than a nightblade?

Same thing it does to a NB. Pull them out of sneak, and magelight will still reduce your damage. Again; any class can sneak and do the same thing. You are talking about NBs who can cloak rather than crouch which they have to do as well if they want to stay hidden after 4 seconds. A templar can heal, and so can any other class. A templar just does it better. Same concept.

OdinForge

frozywozy wrote: »

Dude, you are just derailing repeatidly your own statements to try to make you sound reasonable. This is my final attempt to debate with you. I have been discussing this with logic and replying directly to your arguments.

I have been very reasonable. I asked you to play NB and show us how easy it is, as you claim it to be. Now you're just plain getting defensive because you know that is an impossible task. Instead you're content bringing up players that I haven't even seen playing solo NB in several months.

Another toxic and frustrating comment to read. Why do you think Extasy, Miat, Hexys, Sypher, Vitae Belial, name them, use Shadow Image? It is broken yes, but it still works well if you use it correctly and make sure to not get out of LoS or out of range. It's just a matter of getting used to the bug and working accordingly. It is still worth a slot and I can't wait to show it to you next month (since you obviously refuse to admit it to defend your dear class). All great solo nightblade players will slot it, stamina and magicka.

How was my comment about shade toxic? It literally has not worked the entire CWC patch, no one is using image in CWC reliably. I haven't seen any of those players you mention play solo NB in months or even several patches, I cannot remember the last time I even saw Miat. Or the last time Sypher even played ESO, I'm pretty sure he stopped playing ESO several patches ago. There is no getting used to the bug, it will literally fail 5 feet away from you. I have used shadow image as a regular part of my NB kit since the start of 1.6, don't talk to me about shadow image you don't even play NB xD.

This right here is something that people need to stop complaining about. A stamblade without cloak is still a class with the most minor / major buffs in the game. Is still a class with Vigor and Rally available. Is still a class who can play S&B (like Kodi has been doing recently and doing extremely well).

People build their stamblade pure glass cannon and refuse to slot shadow image or to run arcane jewelry or to add extra magicka recovery to spam cloak / fear more because of how dependant they are to cloak. Play your stamblade like any other class and you will find yourself doing perfectly fine being marked.

Arcane jewelry? What are you talking about? Adding too much magicka sustain to spam cloak isn't going to keep you alive, when you're taking damage and being pulled out of cloak constantly. And you can't continuously fear people if they are CC immune, you have some magical perception of how nightblade plays.

The rest of your post is not even worth responding to, because to be honest you have no idea what you're talking about regarding nightblade. Your only experience comes from talking about players that I don't even think play this game anymore.

frozywozy

technohic wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm.

Lol. All the counters you just mentioned AREN'T used restrictively to counter cloak. They all have great advantages to their class, either by dealing a great amount of damage, providing needed self buffs or by applying ccs / roots / snares.

Again, tell me what is Revealing Flare or a Detect pot going to do against any other class than a nightblade?

Same thing it does to a NB. Pull them out of sneak, and magelight will still reduce your damage. Again; any class can sneak and do the same thing. You are talking about NBs who can cloak rather than crouch which they have to do as well if they want to stay hidden after 4 seconds. A templar can heal, and so can any other class. A templar just does it better. Same concept.

<

You totally misunderstood the point. Read again. I am not asking you how a nb can counter a nb. I am asking you on any non nightblade class who need to use either revealing flare or a detect pot or any of the counters described in this thread, what are those counters going to achieve against any non nightblade class?

Now, as @OdinForge mentioned in his previous post, what can Sweeps, Purifying Light or Dawnbreaker achieve against any non nightblade class? Everything. Hello reason!

OdinForge

frozywozy wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm.

Lol. All the counters you just mentioned AREN'T used restrictively to counter cloak. They all have great advantages to their class, either by dealing a great amount of damage, providing needed self buffs or by applying ccs / roots / snares.

Again, tell me what is Revealing Flare or a Detect pot going to do against any other class than a nightblade?

Same thing it does to a NB. Pull them out of sneak, and magelight will still reduce your damage. Again; any class can sneak and do the same thing. You are talking about NBs who can cloak rather than crouch which they have to do as well if they want to stay hidden after 4 seconds. A templar can heal, and so can any other class. A templar just does it better. Same concept.

<

You totally misunderstood the point. Read again. I am not asking you how a nb can counter a nb. I am asking you on any non nightblade class who need to use either revealing flare or a detect pot or any of the counters described in this thread, what are those counters going to achieve against any non nightblade class?

Now, as @OdinForge mentioned in his previous post, what can Sweeps, Purifying Light or Dawnbreaker achieve against any non nightblade class? Everything. Hello reason!

You counter the NB by doing exactly what I said and showed in the GIF, by learning to play your build! You're acting like cloak has no reasonable counters, and when provided viable counters you act like they aren't worthy, because they can be used against other classes?

Like what!?

frozywozy

OdinForge wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm.

Lol. All the counters you just mentioned AREN'T used restrictively to counter cloak. They all have great advantages to their class, either by dealing a great amount of damage, providing needed self buffs or by applying ccs / roots / snares.

Again, tell me what is Revealing Flare or a Detect pot going to do against any other class than a nightblade?

Same thing it does to a NB. Pull them out of sneak, and magelight will still reduce your damage. Again; any class can sneak and do the same thing. You are talking about NBs who can cloak rather than crouch which they have to do as well if they want to stay hidden after 4 seconds. A templar can heal, and so can any other class. A templar just does it better. Same concept.

<

You totally misunderstood the point. Read again. I am not asking you how a nb can counter a nb. I am asking you on any non nightblade class who need to use either revealing flare or a detect pot or any of the counters described in this thread, what are those counters going to achieve against any non nightblade class?

Now, as @OdinForge mentioned in his previous post, what can Sweeps, Purifying Light or Dawnbreaker achieve against any non nightblade class? Everything. Hello reason!

You counter the NB by doing exactly what I said and showed in the GIF, by learning to play your build! You're acting like cloak has no reasonable counters, and when provided viable counters you act like they aren't worthy, because they can be used against other classes?

Like what!?

The counters you mentioned are great when used against an agressive nightblade. not against one trying to escape :

1) Fear
2) Dodge roll (dropping a rune from eternal hunt + gaining major expedition from bow)
3) Shuffle
4) Cloak
4.2) Shadow Image

I understand that Dawnbreaker (which is an ultimate and a funny way to counter a spammable ability) and Sweeps can be great counters to offensive nightblades but they won't do anything against one who is trying to get away.

I also find it amusing that you skipped at least 15 arguments I addressed point by point to you from my last posts to go straight to the last thing I have said. It shows how ignorant you are and how you simply want to show that you are right about everything since you play the class and i don't. what is your /played on that nb @IronForge?

OdinForge

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Not to mention that virtually every class generally already has at least one counter slotted. DKs have a variety of ways to keep cloak down and can cast volatile armor into a well timed leap, templars have sweeps/jabs and the delayed damage from purifying light/potl or dawnbreaker. Stamsorc has hurricane and dawnbreaker, magsorc has streak and a detect pot + meteor + rune cage is super deadly, not to mention the delayed damage from curse. Sub and fissure will pull a NB out of cloak if it lands, and Xv1 wardens will slot impaling shards and sleet storm.

Lol. All the counters you just mentioned AREN'T used restrictively to counter cloak. They all have great advantages to their class, either by dealing a great amount of damage, providing needed self buffs or by applying ccs / roots / snares.

Again, tell me what is Revealing Flare or a Detect pot going to do against any other class than a nightblade?

Same thing it does to a NB. Pull them out of sneak, and magelight will still reduce your damage. Again; any class can sneak and do the same thing. You are talking about NBs who can cloak rather than crouch which they have to do as well if they want to stay hidden after 4 seconds. A templar can heal, and so can any other class. A templar just does it better. Same concept.

<

You totally misunderstood the point. Read again. I am not asking you how a nb can counter a nb. I am asking you on any non nightblade class who need to use either revealing flare or a detect pot or any of the counters described in this thread, what are those counters going to achieve against any non nightblade class?

Now, as @OdinForge mentioned in his previous post, what can Sweeps, Purifying Light or Dawnbreaker achieve against any non nightblade class? Everything. Hello reason!

You counter the NB by doing exactly what I said and showed in the GIF, by learning to play your build! You're acting like cloak has no reasonable counters, and when provided viable counters you act like they aren't worthy, because they can be used against other classes?

Like what!?

The counters you mentioned are great when used against an agressive nightblade. not against one trying to escape :

1) Fear
2) Dodge roll (dropping a rune from eternal hunt + gaining major expedition from bow)
3) Shuffle
4) Cloak
4.2) Shadow Image

I understand that Dawnbreaker (which is an ultimate and a funny way to counter a spammable ability) and Sweeps can be great counters to offensive nightblades but they won't do anything against one who is trying to get away.

I also find it amusing that you skipped at least 15 arguments from my last posts to go straight to the last thing I have said. It shows how ignorant you are and how you simply want to show that you are right about everything since you play the class and i don't. what is your playtime @IronForge?

I read your other responses and they were so far off basis, and not relevant it's not worth wasting time. This argument that you're trying to make is worth responding to, because you're literally in denial at this point.

An aggressive nb is the only nb that's a threat, anyone can run away from a fight. I can pop an immovable speed pot and run away from a fight easily on my stamplar or stamsorc. I have a video where I run on my stamplar from Bleakers to the water with a 15 player zerg chasing me, I keep these around for comedy among friends. Among countless clips of me disengaging a fight in IC or something, because I can sprint endlessly (CP). I haven't played my magsorc much this patch but I was pretty good at fleeing fights with him too, to thin chasing numbers. My stamdk is built differently to where I can't run as easily, and my stamnb is built where I rely more on cloak and re-positioning than just plain sprinting away (CP allocated differently for both).

If someone wants to run and they're built for it, chances are they will have a good chance at doing so.

A NB running isn't going to kill you, when the NB tries to kill you is when you have your chance to outplay them. But I also catch a lot of NBs that try to run after a failed gank, you'll know what that feels like when you play your NB more. If the NB isn't built for sheer running speed (chances are they won't be with current befoul) you can easily shut down a NB with a detect pot and unavoidable damage.

You keep tossing out those abilities as if they don't consume resources, take time to cast and in general don't always work. As if just saying the names of them somehow validates your incoherent arguments.

frozywozy

OdinForge wrote: »

I read your other responses and they were so far off basis, and not relevant it's not worth wasting time. This argument that you're trying to make is worth responding to, because you're literally in denial at this point.

An aggressive nb is the only nb that's a threat, anyone can run away from a fight. I can pop an immovable speed pot and run away from a fight easily on my stamplar or stamsorc. I have a video where I run on my stamplar from Bleakers to the water with a 15 player zerg chasing me, I keep these around for comedy among friends. Among countless clips of me disengaging a fight in IC or something, because I can sprint endlessly (CP). I haven't played my magsorc much this patch but I was pretty good at fleeing fights with him too, to thin chasing numbers. My stamdk is built differently to where I can't run as easily, and my stamnb is built where I rely more on cloak and re-positioning than just plain sprinting away (CP allocated differently for both).

If someone wants to run and they're built for it, chances are they will have a good chance at doing so.

A NB running isn't going to kill you, when the NB tries to kill you is when you have your chance to outplay them. But I also catch a lot of NBs that try to run after a failed gank, you'll know what that feels like when you play your NB more. If the NB isn't built for sheer running speed (chances are they won't be with current befoul) you can easily shut down a NB with a detect pot and unavoidable damage.

You keep tossing out those abilities as if they don't consume resources, take time to cast and in general don't always work. As if just saying the names of them somehow validates your incoherent arguments.

Again, I never said that you cannot do on any other class what a nightblade can do (example : getting away from a zerg). I said that a nightblade is the most forgiving class and the easiest to reset a fight after messing up. I'm glad that you were able to accomplish such kiting on your stamplar or your magsorc. But in most scenarios, it will fail and you will die very quickly.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Datthaw wrote: »

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

Considering dueling died 2 years ago (or something like that), maybe you shouldnt bring that up as an indication of competent people.

I EU, there are no dueling guilds alive because 99% of the duelers stopped dueling cause they understand it is NOTHING like it used to be. Every patch becomes less balanced. But wtf do you know about these things anyways... Is my point really THAT messed up? I don't think so at all, and I know some other people that are thinking approximately the same about this issue as I am, and those are some of the most experienced players in eso PC EU.

@Master_Kas It's np. Just ridiculous that some people in this thread dont think I even have a NB cause my reason for making the thread is so absurd.

And anyone who says "use detect pots" has nothing to do in this thread.

Datthaw

frozywozy wrote: »

Dude, you are just derailing repeatidly your own statements to try to make you sound reasonable. This is my final attempt to debate with you. I have been discussing this with logic and replying directly to your arguments.

Please try to do the same on your end.

You previously stated the following :

OdinForge wrote: »

The kinds of fights where I'd just prefer to have my stamplar with a better group comp, to nuke them with synchronized ultimates and AOE.

I then replied to you with :

frozywozy wrote: »

I never said that a stamblade by himself can perform better than a group with synchronized ultimates and AOE. I was comparing the potential of a nightblade, by himself to any other class.

And here you entirely twisted your words around coming from "better group comp" admitting you work better in a group to "versus my stamplar lining up 4 players around LOS in one DB -> jab combo." admitting that you are now reffering to you as a solo player.

Any class can zerg surf and survive, especially roachblades.

Never I was reffering about a nightblade zerg surfing on top of his faction. I have been talking about straight solo play picking up on one or multiple opponents. Again, get your facts straight and stop assuming what I'm thinking.

Shade right now is not relevant to the discussion of how OP NB has the potential to be. Shade fails approximately 100% of the time I use it,

Another toxic and frustrating comment to read. Why do you think Extasy, Miat, Hexys, Sypher, Vitae Belial, name them, use Shadow Image? It is broken yes, but it still works well if you use it correctly and make sure to not get out of LoS or out of range. It's just a matter of getting used to the bug and working accordingly. It is still worth a slot and I can't wait to show it to you next month (since you obviously refuse to admit it to defend your dear class). All great solo nightblade players will slot it, stamina and magicka.

Eternal hunt is also far from the best load-out for stamnb these days

This statement is relative to what you want to achieve as a player. I compare it to someone who would ask "What is the best class nowadays?" It all depends of your playstyle and the amount of people you play with. Eternal Hunt is the set that will help you the most against people spamming gap closers (which is the ability that will get you killed the most when you are getting zerged down). One trap may be the life saver between you getting detected after dodge rolling + cloak and getting away and resetting the fight.

Will a stamnb handle that same group while being marked just as easy, no. Will the stamplar handle the same group while being marked, yes.

This right here is something that people need to stop complaining about. A stamblade without cloak is still a class with the most minor / major buffs in the game. Is still a class with Vigor and Rally available. Is still a class who can play S&B (like Kodi has been doing recently and doing extremely well).

People build their stamblade pure glass cannon and refuse to slot shadow image or to run arcane jewelry or to add extra magicka recovery to spam cloak / fear more because of how dependant they are to cloak. Play your stamblade like any other class and you will find yourself doing perfectly fine being marked.

Idk what yall arguing bout, just read ththrough a bit but I can confirm, image is broke a hell for me too. I slotted it last night and it honestly didn't work once. Was pretty frustrating.

Datthaw

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

Considering dueling died 2 years ago (or something like that), maybe you shouldnt bring that up as an indication of competent people.

I EU, there are no dueling guilds alive because 99% of the duelers stopped dueling cause they understand it is NOTHING like it used to be. Every patch becomes less balanced. But wtf do you know about these things anyways... Is my point really THAT messed up? I don't think so at all, and I know some other people that are thinking approximately the same about this issue as I am, and those are some of the most experienced players in eso PC EU.

@Master_Kas It's np. Just ridiculous that some people in this thread dont think I even have a NB cause my reason for making the thread is so absurd.

And anyone who says "use detect pots" has nothing to do in this thread.

Dueling is alive and well in pc na. And by the way you no nb playing bun dart, USE DETECT POTS

joe.smith21b14_ESO

Datthaw wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

Considering dueling died 2 years ago (or something like that), maybe you shouldnt bring that up as an indication of competent people.

I EU, there are no dueling guilds alive because 99% of the duelers stopped dueling cause they understand it is NOTHING like it used to be. Every patch becomes less balanced. But wtf do you know about these things anyways... Is my point really THAT messed up? I don't think so at all, and I know some other people that are thinking approximately the same about this issue as I am, and those are some of the most experienced players in eso PC EU.

@Master_Kas It's np. Just ridiculous that some people in this thread dont think I even have a NB cause my reason for making the thread is so absurd.

And anyone who says "use detect pots" has nothing to do in this thread.

Dueling is alive and well in pc na. And by the way you no nb playing bun dart, USE DETECT POTS

Lol he said bun dart.

Derra

No idea if i already wrote it.
Problem isn´t cloak imo. It´s sneak.

jhharvest

I think it's very easy: Piercing mark needs to be a fighter's guild skill. But I think it shouldn't give major breach and fracture anymore in that case. And I still think that lingering flare should be /at least/ as good as caltrops, since it doesn't deal any damage. I think it would be entirely reasonable if it had 10 meter radius and 30 second duration.

In low level PVP cloak currently has two counters. You can either play in full heavy turtle mode or you can play a nightblade yourself. Otherwise these cloak ninjas will keep poking at you until they get lucky with their burst, or lucky with your CC break not working, and kill you. They'll reset the fight every time it doesn't go their way.

GC0

WTB DBoS fix against cloak

thankyourat

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I read your other responses and they were so far off basis, and not relevant it's not worth wasting time. This argument that you're trying to make is worth responding to, because you're literally in denial at this point.

An aggressive nb is the only nb that's a threat, anyone can run away from a fight. I can pop an immovable speed pot and run away from a fight easily on my stamplar or stamsorc. I have a video where I run on my stamplar from Bleakers to the water with a 15 player zerg chasing me, I keep these around for comedy among friends. Among countless clips of me disengaging a fight in IC or something, because I can sprint endlessly (CP). I haven't played my magsorc much this patch but I was pretty good at fleeing fights with him too, to thin chasing numbers. My stamdk is built differently to where I can't run as easily, and my stamnb is built where I rely more on cloak and re-positioning than just plain sprinting away (CP allocated differently for both).

If someone wants to run and they're built for it, chances are they will have a good chance at doing so.

A NB running isn't going to kill you, when the NB tries to kill you is when you have your chance to outplay them. But I also catch a lot of NBs that try to run after a failed gank, you'll know what that feels like when you play your NB more. If the NB isn't built for sheer running speed (chances are they won't be with current befoul) you can easily shut down a NB with a detect pot and unavoidable damage.

You keep tossing out those abilities as if they don't consume resources, take time to cast and in general don't always work. As if just saying the names of them somehow validates your incoherent arguments.

Again, I never said that you cannot do on any other class what a nightblade can do (example : getting away from a zerg). I said that a nightblade is the most forgiving class and the easiest to reset a fight after messing up. I'm glad that you were able to accomplish such kiting on your stamplar or your magsorc. But in most scenarios, it will fail and you will die very quickly.

The easiest class to reset a fight with is magplar. Just hold block and cast BoL and you will go from execute range to full. There is really no way to counter this because magplars also have a class purge you have to run a magplar out of resources to kill him. So magplar or even mag dk is alot more easy to learn and forgiving than a stamblade. If You think stamblade is forgiving you just haven't learned to time your burst combos yet. I play a destro build with no way to counter cloak and I don't have any problems killing nightblades.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

And I have zero tolerance with you, cry more about a class defining skill. And you more than likely have never rolled a nb. And if you're so smart and amazing amazing this game you wouldn't think cloak is op. I don't hear anyone in legend crying about this being broken. Only people thay cry are ones like you.

Considering dueling died 2 years ago (or something like that), maybe you shouldnt bring that up as an indication of competent people.

I EU, there are no dueling guilds alive because 99% of the duelers stopped dueling cause they understand it is NOTHING like it used to be. Every patch becomes less balanced. But wtf do you know about these things anyways... Is my point really THAT messed up? I don't think so at all, and I know some other people that are thinking approximately the same about this issue as I am, and those are some of the most experienced players in eso PC EU.

@Master_Kas It's np. Just ridiculous that some people in this thread dont think I even have a NB cause my reason for making the thread is so absurd.

And anyone who says "use detect pots" has nothing to do in this thread.

You can use detect pots they are very useful if you haven't learned to time your burst when the nightblade is out of cloak. This is also probably the most balanced the game has ever been. Cloak being OP is literally a learn to play issue. It's no stronger than any other defensive ability. I'm not experiencing these problems with cloak and I've killed most of the best stamblades on my platform. Just practice more instead of asking for something to be removed

EdTerra

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think the cloak mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a nb. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: burst->cloak->burst->cloak etc etc.
Very few nb actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight cloak spamming nb's, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.
Just a thought, can be whatever - come with ideas about what to grant.

1.6 stamblade in cwc patch, that's all...


stamblades now don't remember they were once fighters...

even on melee magblade I have to wait out of cloak to find them

but remove cloak is a bit too much, bro

Drdeath20

VaranisArano wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

All the skills and methods for detection are extremely limiting. Skills like calthrops, rit of ret, inner light, etc... you basically have to already know where the cloaked player is going.

Which if you are paying attention and watching the likely LOS spots and chokepoints, isn't that hard to figure out where they will run if the only counter you are running is AOE damage/revealing spells. If they are just trying to run away, rather than run and regroup for round 2, I'm not too worried about them.

Needle in the haystack. Nearly useless to slot.

I'm not slotting caltrops to reveal people in cloak. It just helps serve that purpose.

Like i said the only way detection skills are useful is that you pretty much have to know where the stealthed player is.

Im not saying that nightblades shouldnt have cloak. Im saying Cloak should be a world skill.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

EdTerra wrote: »

1.6 stamblade in cwc patch, that's all...


stamblades now don't remember they were once fighters...

even on melee magblade I have to wait out of cloak to find them

but remove cloak is a bit too much, bro

lol that meme cracked me up.

Well atleast you still got your honor, one of the handfull of meele magblades left.

Datthaw

Cloak is underpowerer, needs a buff. Maybe give it cc and snare immunity, along with spell power buff and a burst heal.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Datthaw wrote: »

Cloak is underpowerer, needs a buff. Maybe give it cc and snare immunity, along with spell power buff and a burst heal.

Heck yeah! Also add major expidition and invisible eye of the storm!