Remove cloak completely

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

I think the cloak mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a nb. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: burst->cloak->burst->cloak etc etc.
Very few nb actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight cloak spamming nb's, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.
Just a thought, can be whatever - come with ideas about what to grant.

Vilestride

Cloak may be frustrating at times if you don't have anything equipped to deal with it. But that is far from saying it is overpowered. There is plenty of counterplay if it really is that difficult for you to deal with.

I suggest first simply carrying detect pots at the least.

Nightblades do not get many defensive passives and are typically very easy to kill when caught, so to speak. Cloak is a relatively balanced defensive mechanic that night blade needs to be viable. Not to mention class defining. Stealthy, is an entire play style that many, many people love. Asking for that to be removed is kinda selfish don't you think?

Venom4You

Imo cloak is fine because it defines the nightblade class.
Regular sneak on the other hand... could be removed from pvp entirely No more sneaking zergs, no more bating with half an army in sneak as backup, no more gankers waiting in regular sneak for so on horseback. Everyone would always know what he is up against.
That change wouldn't ruin NBs. Because their capability not to be seen, to disappear or to flee from a fight would now simply have to match their magicka pool. No more endless invisible waiting or two cloaks into regular sneak to escape a turning battle! Yeah I could like a change like that!

Talcyndl

Cloak should be on a cooldown or be made an ulti. A stealth ability that can be cast repeatedly, at-will, while in combat is horrible game design. I know of no other MMO that allows such an ability.

Alternatively, at least raise the active time of detect pots back to what they were originally. Oh, and include a better stam version with immovable. The current potion options are heavily weighted to magicka builds - which already have the option of using magelight.

Kalante

Good, after they make shields critible, penalty to bol spammers and bird spammers. Also remove lethal arrow and L2 builds.

VaranisArano

Stealth mechanics are hard to balance. There's a really fine line between completely OP and completely useless. The current system seems to go with stealth mechanics are completely OP if you use none of the available counters and completely useless if you do use any of the available counters. As someone who doesn't play a nightblade myself, from what I see of nightblades using cloak it either works or it fails spectacularly. High risk, high reward.

Sixty5

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

VaranisArano

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

Sixty5

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay, there is not a single class or build in the game that does not have access to tools that let them beat Cloak.

Play a nightblade vs bad players, and they won't be able to touch you, play one vs good players, and cloak becomes little more than a crit chance buff

Rainraven

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Well played.

Izaki

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

GG WP

DoctorESO

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VaranisArano

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay, there is not a single class or build in the game that does not have access to tools that let them beat Cloak.

Play a nightblade vs bad players, and they won't be able to touch you, play one vs good players, and cloak becomes little more than a crit chance buff

Oh, I agree. Like I said, cloak seems to work either really well, or not work at all depending on whether or not the opposing player is using the appropriate counterplay.

Jake1576

Kalante wrote: »

Good, after they make shields critible, penalty to bol spammers and bird spammers. Also remove lethal arrow and L2 builds.

I agree with this

Vapirko

I really don’t say this ever, but this legit sounds like you got your ass kicked by one too many NBs and is a l2p issue. NB is just one of the classes I play so having played as one and against many, cloak is not OP. There are many hard counters to cloak including detect pots, magelight, hurricane, jabs, sub assault, mark target, caltrops, and DKs explosive armor or whatever it’s called, and these are just a few. Have you ever tried slotting a skill that works against cloak?

Note: stop chasing stamblades off into the distance.

IxSTALKERxI

OP is same person who made thread about removing snares completely to... What are we completely removing next? Breath of Life?

The only things that should be 'completely removed' are earthgore and resource cost poisons. If you make a thread about those you'll have my support lol.

idk

Vilestride wrote: »

Cloak may be frustrating at times if you don't have anything equipped to deal with it. But that is far from saying it is overpowered. There is plenty of counterplay if it really is that difficult for you to deal with.

I suggest first simply carrying detect pots at the least.

Nightblades do not get many defensive passives and are typically very easy to kill when caught, so to speak. Cloak is a relatively balanced defensive mechanic that night blade needs to be viable. Not to mention class defining. Stealthy, is an entire play style that many, many people love. Asking for that to be removed is kinda selfish don't you think?

This really says it all and explains why it is beneficial and that it seems OP is choosing not to use the counterplay available.

If one chooses to not use the counterplays available for the many things in the game then it is really a personal issue for them, not a cause for a nerf.

Talcyndl wrote: »

Cloak should be on a cooldown or be made an ulti. A stealth ability that can be cast repeatedly, at-will, while in combat is horrible game design. I know of no other MMO that allows such an ability.

Alternatively, at least raise the active time of detect pots back to what they were originally. Oh, and include a better stam version with immovable. The current potion options are heavily weighted to magicka builds - which already have the option of using magelight.

And this comment is incorrect for the same reasons. Any player can force a NB cloak ineffective via the various counters to cloak and sneak. It is a choice.

So, alternatively use one of the counters.

umagon

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think the cloak mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a nb. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: burst->cloak->burst->cloak etc etc.
Very few nb actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight cloak spamming nb's, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.
Just a thought, can be whatever - come with ideas about what to grant.

Yes, usher in the age of tankblades; nothing will go wrong with that…

DoctorESO

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xeNNNNN

I can make a much better argument for removing fear i.e mass hysteria than I can cloak, considering MH is a spammable ability which will 100% work every 4 seconds and even with immo pots it usually decides a fight as well due too it being one of the longest CC's in the game and you can only Break free so much. Which is dumb. Cloak isnt the problem the fear/mass hysteria (and the other forgettable morph) are far more unreasonable.

Cloak on the other hand is the only form of escape a nightblade has really. No roll dodging for eternity on a stamblade is not fun either its just a reliable mechanism.

Cloak has so many downsides that are not used too the point where I am asking myself why this is even a thread. Stop complaining about something that is easily countered AND COUNTER IT.

Flare, Mage light, Any kind of AoE, DoTs..... The list goes on.

And Im a magblade main..

Infact no, I WANT them to remove fear totally because its broken, I dont even use it myself out of principal. I dont need it too play well. I dont need it for anything. So I have no respect for those who use it.

Gilvoth

stealth class, = cloak invisibility.
stealth exists, you remove stealth then you take with it all stealth classes and stealth type players with subscriptions will follow.
zenimax, please don't remove stealth and invisibility from eso.

Talcyndl

The problem with the existing cloak arises in small scale fights. Even on a Stamblade, cloak allows complete control of the fight. The NB can disengage at will. A competently built and played NB can heal while cloaked and then reengage with a huge attack bonus. They can do this repeatedly over the course of a fight.

There are counters. Some are basically useless (the stupid flare one I forget the name of). Some are ok but are hit or miss (Magelight). Then of course you can use detect pots. But those are of very short duration (they used to be MUCH longer). And they don't prevent the NB from disappearing after being detected - even without them having to recloak. All in all, pots are an incredibly underpowered counter. Especially for stam classes who don't want weapon crit on their pots.

idk

Talcyndl wrote: »

The problem with the existing cloak arises in small scale fights. Even on a Stamblade, cloak allows complete control of the fight. The NB can disengage at will. A competently built and played NB can heal while cloaked and then reengage with a huge attack bonus. They can do this repeatedly over the course of a fight.

There are counters. Some are basically useless (the stupid flare one I forget the name of). Some are ok but are hit or miss (Magelight). Then of course you can use detect pots. But those are of very short duration (they used to be MUCH longer). And they don't prevent the NB from disappearing after being detected - even without them having to recloak. All in all, pots are an incredibly underpowered counter. Especially for stam classes who don't want weapon crit on their pots.

]

It allows complete control of the fight only if you allow it. Again, an incorrect statement since it id attempting to suggest the counters do not work, yet they do. Choosing to not use the counters is not reason for a nerf.

Talcyndl

idk wrote: »

It allows complete control of the fight only if you allow it. Again, an incorrect statement since it id attempting to suggest the counters do not work, yet they do. Choosing to not use the counters is not reason for a nerf.

IMO, the counters are all significantly underpowered in small scale fights.

enzoisadog

detect pots, mage light, revealing flare, expert hunter, mark, light attacks, heavy attacks, volatile armor damage return and a bunch of other dots and abilities that break cloak.




Nerf warden, thanks.

NyassaV

HYPERLUL

NyassaV

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think the cloak mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a nb. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: burst->cloak->burst->cloak etc etc.
Very few nb actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight cloak spamming nb's, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.
Just a thought, can be whatever - come with ideas about what to grant.

What isn't strategic about trying to avoid your 20 man team of PvE players with Impen gear running over the hill

Knootewoot

nvm

Goshua

surely not serious.. as serious as these people afraid of getting healed to death by templars lul

Rohamad_Ali

How about you go find a different PVP game that suits your playstyle instead of changing one already made that millions love .

zyk

I've considered your idea and think we should compromise by allowing cloak to be used while mounted and keeping everything else the same.