Remove cloak completely

Sixty5

Didgerion wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs,
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

You also miss some with Templars, Unstable core (I spam that on NBs), blazing spear, solar barrage is possible if a NB is trying to sneak in for melee for some reason,

Sorcs have curse which a lot of NBs absolutely hate.

EDIT:

Caltrops
Volley
Impulse

Ah yeah, totally forgot about solar barrage

the rest dont take nbs out of cloak they prevent them from entering it..curse being bit of both
And those AOE abilities you mentioned are far from being viable counters. Maybe a sorc can find a way to slot caltrops using its overload bar but somehow I dont see many people running caltrops on their bars in open world situations. Same goes for the other two

Agree,
Keeping anything on your bar just to reveal NBs means crippling your build.
Also the invis-breaking pots - if you use that then you cripple your sustain.
NBs without cloak are as survivable as any other classes are out there - they have vigor, they have 2h heal ticks, they have rolldodge, they have impen armor. Breaking cloak does not mean that NB is totally defenseless and you can one click kill him.

its not crippling your build if it allows you to have a viable counter to 1 of 5 classes

IDK man, keeping a skill on my already tight bar just to counter NBs and have no use of it for all other 4 classes is called crippling!

Why NB class is forcing me to put something on my bar? No other class there requires me to put counters on my bar except NBs.
And even If I encounter a NB and use that skill to reveal him I'm still crippled as cloak-less NB is as survivable as my stam sorc is for example and I have to fight him with a crippled bar or with a crippled sustain (if I use a pot to revel him)

You have 10 skill slots, yes? I think you can manage one skill without acting like that's crippling your build. Its called cramping your style, not crippling your build.

Here are the skills on my stam sorc.
Front bar:
Crit Charge, Rally, WB, Executioner, Rune cage,
Back bar:
Poison injection, Shuffle, Surge, Hurricane, Dark exchange

any suggestions what to remove?

Dude you have Hurricane, you already counter Nightblades.

If you want to be less squishy, run Defensive Rune, and slap that on an Overload bar. Swap out Wrecking Blow for Dizzying Swing, and run Streak or Ball of Lightning. I'd drop Surge for Vigor as well.

Gilvoth

Hurricane is Horrible, it removes me from stealth instantly and it is the size of most houses and buildings.

technohic

Sixty5 wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs,
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

You also miss some with Templars, Unstable core (I spam that on NBs), blazing spear, solar barrage is possible if a NB is trying to sneak in for melee for some reason,

Sorcs have curse which a lot of NBs absolutely hate.

EDIT:

Caltrops
Volley
Impulse

Ah yeah, totally forgot about solar barrage

the rest dont take nbs out of cloak they prevent them from entering it..curse being bit of both
And those AOE abilities you mentioned are far from being viable counters. Maybe a sorc can find a way to slot caltrops using its overload bar but somehow I dont see many people running caltrops on their bars in open world situations. Same goes for the other two

Agree,
Keeping anything on your bar just to reveal NBs means crippling your build.
Also the invis-breaking pots - if you use that then you cripple your sustain.
NBs without cloak are as survivable as any other classes are out there - they have vigor, they have 2h heal ticks, they have rolldodge, they have impen armor. Breaking cloak does not mean that NB is totally defenseless and you can one click kill him.

its not crippling your build if it allows you to have a viable counter to 1 of 5 classes

IDK man, keeping a skill on my already tight bar just to counter NBs and have no use of it for all other 4 classes is called crippling!

Why NB class is forcing me to put something on my bar? No other class there requires me to put counters on my bar except NBs.
And even If I encounter a NB and use that skill to reveal him I'm still crippled as cloak-less NB is as survivable as my stam sorc is for example and I have to fight him with a crippled bar or with a crippled sustain (if I use a pot to revel him)

You have 10 skill slots, yes? I think you can manage one skill without acting like that's crippling your build. Its called cramping your style, not crippling your build.

Here are the skills on my stam sorc.
Front bar:
Crit Charge, Rally, WB, Executioner, Rune cage,
Back bar:
Poison injection, Shuffle, Surge, Hurricane, Dark exchange

any suggestions what to remove?

Dude you have Hurricane, you already counter Nightblades.

If you want to be less squishy, run Defensive Rune, and slap that on an Overload bar. Swap out Wrecking Blow for Dizzying Swing, and run Streak or Ball of Lightning. I'd drop Surge for Vigor as well.

Quit asking him to gimp his build by actually using Vigor.

CaliMade

Vilestride wrote: »

Cloak may be frustrating at times if you don't have anything equipped to deal with it. But that is far from saying it is overpowered. There is plenty of counterplay if it really is that difficult for you to deal with.

I suggest first simply carrying detect pots at the least.

Nightblades do not get many defensive passives and are typically very easy to kill when caught, so to speak. Cloak is a relatively balanced defensive mechanic that night blade needs to be viable. Not to mention class defining. Stealthy, is an entire play style that many, many people love. Asking for that to be removed is kinda selfish don't you think?

Minor maim on fear, major ward and major resolve from any shadow ability with no cooldown, minor protection on d cloak, perma crit heals in crit cloak. In class major evasion with minor ward and minor resolve, cloak is also basically a magic dodge roll, as it seems that its meant to evade all single target abilities. 3% healing per siphoning ability slotted, Minor maim on shade. Only class that doesnt have to block soul assault, only class that can avoid Cliff racers and In class health bonuses.

Thats not many defensive passives at all.

laksikus

CaliMade wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Cloak may be frustrating at times if you don't have anything equipped to deal with it. But that is far from saying it is overpowered. There is plenty of counterplay if it really is that difficult for you to deal with.

I suggest first simply carrying detect pots at the least.

Nightblades do not get many defensive passives and are typically very easy to kill when caught, so to speak. Cloak is a relatively balanced defensive mechanic that night blade needs to be viable. Not to mention class defining. Stealthy, is an entire play style that many, many people love. Asking for that to be removed is kinda selfish don't you think?

Minor maim on fear, major ward and major resolve from any shadow ability with no cooldown, minor protection on d cloak, perma crit heals in crit cloak. In class major evasion with minor ward and minor resolve, cloak is also basically a magic dodge roll, as it seems that its meant to evade all single target abilities. 3% healing per siphoning ability slotted, Minor maim on shade. Only class that doesnt have to block soul assault, only class that can avoid Cliff racers and In class health bonuses.

Thats not many defensive passives at all.

we dont have to block soul assault? why that`?

rimmidimdim

I'm a NB and I hate cloak, give me minor protection and five purges and imune too gap closers. Good trade off?

Kram8ion

No

Didgerion

Sixty5 wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs,
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

You also miss some with Templars, Unstable core (I spam that on NBs), blazing spear, solar barrage is possible if a NB is trying to sneak in for melee for some reason,

Sorcs have curse which a lot of NBs absolutely hate.

EDIT:

Caltrops
Volley
Impulse

Ah yeah, totally forgot about solar barrage

the rest dont take nbs out of cloak they prevent them from entering it..curse being bit of both
And those AOE abilities you mentioned are far from being viable counters. Maybe a sorc can find a way to slot caltrops using its overload bar but somehow I dont see many people running caltrops on their bars in open world situations. Same goes for the other two

Agree,
Keeping anything on your bar just to reveal NBs means crippling your build.
Also the invis-breaking pots - if you use that then you cripple your sustain.
NBs without cloak are as survivable as any other classes are out there - they have vigor, they have 2h heal ticks, they have rolldodge, they have impen armor. Breaking cloak does not mean that NB is totally defenseless and you can one click kill him.

its not crippling your build if it allows you to have a viable counter to 1 of 5 classes

IDK man, keeping a skill on my already tight bar just to counter NBs and have no use of it for all other 4 classes is called crippling!

Why NB class is forcing me to put something on my bar? No other class there requires me to put counters on my bar except NBs.
And even If I encounter a NB and use that skill to reveal him I'm still crippled as cloak-less NB is as survivable as my stam sorc is for example and I have to fight him with a crippled bar or with a crippled sustain (if I use a pot to revel him)

You have 10 skill slots, yes? I think you can manage one skill without acting like that's crippling your build. Its called cramping your style, not crippling your build.

Here are the skills on my stam sorc.
Front bar:
Crit Charge, Rally, WB, Executioner, Rune cage,
Back bar:
Poison injection, Shuffle, Surge, Hurricane, Dark exchange

any suggestions what to remove?

Dude you have Hurricane, you already counter Nightblades.

If you want to be less squishy, run Defensive Rune, and slap that on an Overload bar. Swap out Wrecking Blow for Dizzying Swing, and run Streak or Ball of Lightning. I'd drop Surge for Vigor as well.

Oh yeah I use vigor on my front bar instead of Crit Charge when solo.

And yeah you are proposing an old build which is not very good as it does not give me the guaranteed stun when I need it for my combo which is very simple: HeavyAttack+WB and if that connects then it is followed by Rune Cage + 2H Ultimate(empowered) + Executioner (if needed).
And of course in the case of NBs nothing connects as it is all miss dodge fear dodge miss dodge and so on.

Yeah my hurricane can pull NBs out of cloak but this helps only if NB is trying to run away and snared - but usually strong NBs don't want to run away - they use cloak purely to disconnect all attacks and to buff up for the next burst which my hurricane can do nothing against.
Also on my other bar's ultimate is Downbreaker for 1vX encounter where 2H ultimate is useless - as you see there is no room for overload.

But you are changing all my build (not just a skill) for the sake of countering cloak.
And how that is not crippling - what is my strong combo then?

Rohamad_Ali

Didgerion wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

How about you go find a different PVP game that suits your playstyle instead of changing one already made that millions love .

Millions?
I don't see millions in PVP area - not even thousands.

And if you care about this game you don't do such claims as you can wake up one day and find yourself alone on the mega server that millions love.

NBs need to be tuned down a bit for PVP same as Stam Wardens do.

Personally I believe that there should not be invisibility in PVP area.
And my argument is simple: Thieves Guild DLC - ZOS got rid of snicking there using that white circle thing.
Why they did it? - Everyone can give their version of the answer here - and all of them is applicable to PVP area.

just because you domt see millions does not mean there are not millions with megaserver instancing . ZoS released the average amount of active players as 2 million plus . So i will not worry about playing alone ever . You can believe what ever you want to believe but you purchased a game with nightblades with cloak as a class defining skill . You can say nightblades need to be toned down but that is just an opinion . Facts are other classes are winning all major dueling competitions not NB's . Maybe next patch they will be stromger but right now they are not op at all . Cloak has counters everywhere . Magelight , detect pots and revealing flare in pvp . Not to mention Miat's addon on pc will tell you the imstant they strike . Finally cloak has been busted aince launch and NB has always had to just adapt . Those are all facts . In short , ZoS will never do what you are hoping so better to find a game with all the mechanics you dont like not included then waste words here trying to remove a class defining skill . Im just saving you lots of time not being rude but very honest with you . Best of luck out there .

Rohamad_Ali

this request has been made many many times on the forums . None have ever been taken onto consideration by Devs ever . Its as unlikely to happen as sorcs losing shields , Templars losing heals or DK losing Talons or spiked armor . Cloak has already been nerfed into oblivion and broken as a reault like other classes have suffered from player whinning . Templar being a big victim but also DK . Seriously play all the classes and duel GOOD players and see if you still feel the same . Get on a NB and duel the last tournament champion on his DK . If you beat him using cloak you will be the most amazing pvp player in history lol .

idk

Didgerion wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs,
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

You also miss some with Templars, Unstable core (I spam that on NBs), blazing spear, solar barrage is possible if a NB is trying to sneak in for melee for some reason,

Sorcs have curse which a lot of NBs absolutely hate.

EDIT:

Caltrops
Volley
Impulse

Ah yeah, totally forgot about solar barrage

the rest dont take nbs out of cloak they prevent them from entering it..curse being bit of both
And those AOE abilities you mentioned are far from being viable counters. Maybe a sorc can find a way to slot caltrops using its overload bar but somehow I dont see many people running caltrops on their bars in open world situations. Same goes for the other two

Agree,
Keeping anything on your bar just to reveal NBs means crippling your build.
Also the invis-breaking pots - if you use that then you cripple your sustain.
NBs without cloak are as survivable as any other classes are out there - they have vigor, they have 2h heal ticks, they have rolldodge, they have impen armor. Breaking cloak does not mean that NB is totally defenseless and you can one click kill him.

The argument put forward here is fantasy. Someone who has obviously spent little to no time as a NB.

I find it entertaining how those that refuse to use the numerous counters to cloak or do not take time to figure out how to us them effectively are asking for this nerf. It is far to common for players to come up with false justifications in asking for a nerf instead of figuring out the same solution built into the game and has been used effectively.

D0PAMINE

I love fighting Nightblades. I will always chase them and pressure them in any way I can. If you want to get better at dealing with nightblades, go out and fight some nightblades.

I fought @NightbladeMechanics in Cyrodiil for 20 minutes and got destroyed every time. I recognized their toon name and I know theyre really good. I learned a lot about where my build was vulnerable and what mistakes I was making.

altemriel

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think the cloak mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a nb. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: burst->cloak->burst->cloak etc etc.
Very few nb actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight cloak spamming nb's, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.
Just a thought, can be whatever - come with ideas about what to grant.

Knootewoot

As one of the few remaining LA melee maglblades.. NOPE

Datthaw

idk wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs,
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

You also miss some with Templars, Unstable core (I spam that on NBs), blazing spear, solar barrage is possible if a NB is trying to sneak in for melee for some reason,

Sorcs have curse which a lot of NBs absolutely hate.

EDIT:

Caltrops
Volley
Impulse

Ah yeah, totally forgot about solar barrage

the rest dont take nbs out of cloak they prevent them from entering it..curse being bit of both
And those AOE abilities you mentioned are far from being viable counters. Maybe a sorc can find a way to slot caltrops using its overload bar but somehow I dont see many people running caltrops on their bars in open world situations. Same goes for the other two

Agree,
Keeping anything on your bar just to reveal NBs means crippling your build.
Also the invis-breaking pots - if you use that then you cripple your sustain.
NBs without cloak are as survivable as any other classes are out there - they have vigor, they have 2h heal ticks, they have rolldodge, they have impen armor. Breaking cloak does not mean that NB is totally defenseless and you can one click kill him.

The argument put forward here is fantasy. Someone who has obviously spent little to no time as a NB.

I find it entertaining how those that refuse to use the numerous counters to cloak or do not take time to figure out how to us them effectively are asking for this nerf. It is far to common for players to come up with false justifications in asking for a nerf instead of figuring out the same solution built into the game and has been used effectively.

The best is when you say use detect pots and they are like "WHAT AND RUIN MY SUSTAIN?!?!?!" lol its like dude if you can't last 30 seconds without a pot for sustain you were gonna lose anyway

Zorgon_The_Revenged

De_Mythos......hmm...that's not the cloak->burst, cloak->burst NB that I used to see on the PC EU server, is it?

xeNNNNN

montjie wrote: »

All these cloakspammers in denial ghegheghe

Sixty5 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I think the heal mechanism needs to be removed (atleast in pvp areas) completely.

This mechanism has no place, especially in PVP.
It immensely decreases the gameplay needed (skillwise) to get anything done as a templar. And i understand why this is something good from devs standpoint.
But looking at it from an coherent viewpoint, it lessen the enjoyment overall - imo.

Now why is this? - Because, as it seems to me atm, it is just being used in the following manner: purge->heal->purge->heal etc etc.
Very few templars actually use it in a strategically way, excluding just spamming it in accordance with above.

It is just not satisfying to fight heal spamming templars, and the majority will keep playing in this way if they're allowed to do so. Take it from them for the sake of the overall health of the PVP community.

Can give us something like: grants minor protection, minor resolve and minor ward for 20 sec when activated.

Healing. Totally OP.

You can make the same argument for Ults with DKs or Shields on Sorcs.



Cloak is one of the few class defining skills that actually has counterplay

Expert Hunter/Inner Light - Highly inefficient. Even volatile armor is more effective in getting cloakspammers out of stealth than these pieces of crap
Detect pots - Yeah lets waste 45 seconds of pot uptime for 16 seconds of chasing down a shaded figure in a poopingposition while not being able to hit him with targeted abilities only to watch him disappear after those 16 seconds. Now youre standing there without a pot to protect you from that surprise attack (which you know is coming) followed by that incap (if the cloakspammer dabbled around long enough while u were playing tag)
Revealing Flare - lol

Steel tornado - Works nice but who runs steel tornado in PvP xD
Arrow Spray
Wall of Elements

DK's - Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames/Noxious Breath
Templars - Jabs
Sorcs - Streak but by the time u touch ground and turn around the spammer is in cloak again lol, Hurricane
Wardens - Impaling Shards (I guess)..srry stamwardens
NBs - *** nb's xD

So yeah the counters any1 has access to are pretty much useless against a decent cloakspammer and some classes don't even have other counters beyond those. If you run certain classes and/or builds you're completely at the mercy of the skilllevel of the cloakspammer.

You really think this isnt a problem or at least should be adressed in one way or the other?

Edit: forgot about the weapon abilities and flare

Utterly false.

DoTs also bring you out of stealth for brief periods allowing you the non-stealth user too stun them too oblivion.

- Revealing flare is far more effective than you think. Its been used on me more times than I can count.
- Detect Pots work masterful when timed right, you dont just pop them randomly like 3 seconds after seeing people, you use them mid fight.
- Inner light lol. Use Radiant Light - "Morph Effect: Reduces the cost and increases the radius of the reveal. You also prevent the stun and reduce the damage from stealth attacks while slotted." seriously. I use this, its really useful. If you're using inner because you want a tiny bit of spell crit you're dumb. Sorry just the truth.

- Steel Tornado A lot of people run it. You'd be suprised.
- Wall of elements YEP people use this. Not even kidding.
- Arrow Spray okay seriously? I see this used almost daily, I mean granted they arent "great" players but they're actually being rather effective.

- Templars have jabs but also purifying light, power of light, and ritual of retribution all bring enemies out of stealth, retribution has a massive AoE that will damage anything in it stealth or otherwise.
- DKs You also missed burning embers which is in most cases very useful vs stealth opponents as they usually get in close.
- Stamsorc/MagSorc HURRICANE. This is the most effective player based anti-stealth ability in the game, downplay its effectiveness and I will slaughter you on the spot. Really. Curse works well for magsorcs even if it only brings them out of stealth for a second and a second is alls you need because frag into "implosion" passive proc is for some reason a thing atm.
- Wardens lol, their "flies" are useful, persistent dot that prevents stealth and probably the most useful anti-stealth ability they have. As it is usually followed up by bird spamming.
- Nightblades - BS mark (Bs because of the timer on it) and "Sap". Thats it pretty much.

Addtional info;

Rearming trap: YES people use this and god damn it is it annoying.
Caltrops: Seriously....very effective. People just dont use it anymore because you fail to get massive AP gains.

THEN theres all the non-player based AoEs but we wont get into siege AoEs and gaurd AoEs because that will just be a post with me raging for half an hour about how ZoS really needs to balance that crap.

With regards,
A magblade main.

technohic

LOL Been playing around with stam sorc lately and I have Hurricane (obviously) and I run an overload bar for utility that has Rapids and radiant light; which is great for traveling outside of combat; caltrops to throw on bottlenecks and entry ways to catch anyone sneaking in. Just situational stuff.

One of the best things about sorc is getting the extra skill bar. You sacrifice an ultimate (although I hear you can put on on your overload bar but not sure how legit that is) I mean; at least its something in stam sorc case as most of the sorc skill set is unused in stams case.

CrazYDunm3r

Taking away cloak of a stealth class? Like dude... what? Would be the same as saying a sorc can't streak or a DK can't use wings etc. What do people want? 1 class that is so boring because it hasn't something special anymore? Honestly I don't play a NB and even tho there are thousands of them in Cyro, I think they deserve their cloak. As people said, there are enough counters, I think it is again (like so many times) a L2P issue.

Soul_Demon

Talcyndl wrote: »

The problem with the existing cloak arises in small scale fights. Even on a Stamblade, cloak allows complete control of the fight. The NB can disengage at will. A competently built and played NB can heal while cloaked and then reengage with a huge attack bonus. They can do this repeatedly over the course of a fight.

There are counters. Some are basically useless (the stupid flare one I forget the name of). Some are ok but are hit or miss (Magelight). Then of course you can use detect pots. But those are of very short duration (they used to be MUCH longer). And they don't prevent the NB from disappearing after being detected - even without them having to recloak. All in all, pots are an incredibly underpowered counter. Especially for stam classes who don't want weapon crit on their pots.

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

technohic

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

The problem with the existing cloak arises in small scale fights. Even on a Stamblade, cloak allows complete control of the fight. The NB can disengage at will. A competently built and played NB can heal while cloaked and then reengage with a huge attack bonus. They can do this repeatedly over the course of a fight.

There are counters. Some are basically useless (the stupid flare one I forget the name of). Some are ok but are hit or miss (Magelight). Then of course you can use detect pots. But those are of very short duration (they used to be MUCH longer). And they don't prevent the NB from disappearing after being detected - even without them having to recloak. All in all, pots are an incredibly underpowered counter. Especially for stam classes who don't want weapon crit on their pots.

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Soul_Demon

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

AGGROxander_Hamilton

Delete cloak? Sounds like a bait thread.... I mustn’t get involved.

JobooAGS

Soul_Demon wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

invalidation invalid of attacking the person instead of the argument

Soul_Demon

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

invalidation invalid of attacking the person instead of the argument

What you suggest is ad hominem, but the statement is actually circumstantial ad hominem. However you are incorrect, and with a bit of explanation I am sure you will see the difference.

Circumstantial ad hominem points out that someone is in circumstances such that they are disposed to take a particular position. It constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. When a statement is challenged by making an ad hominem attack on its author, it is important to draw a distinction between whether the statement in question was an argument or a statement of fact (testimony).

JobooAGS

Soul_Demon wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

invalidation invalid of attacking the person instead of the argument

What you suggest is ad hominem, but the statement is actually circumstantial ad hominem. However you are incorrect, and with a bit of explanation I am sure you will see the difference.

Circumstantial ad hominem points out that someone is in circumstances such that they are disposed to take a particular position. It constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. When a statement is challenged by making an ad hominem attack on its author, it is important to draw a distinction between whether the statement in question was an argument or a statement of fact (testimony).

The problem is that cloak doesnt purge, but rather only supresses dots while it is active, (you still have all the snares and roots and etc on you) therefore there is a hole in the argument to begin with. Disregarding someone's argument solely based on status or being permits disregardment of such disregardment.

Soul_Demon

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

invalidation invalid of attacking the person instead of the argument

What you suggest is ad hominem, but the statement is actually circumstantial ad hominem. However you are incorrect, and with a bit of explanation I am sure you will see the difference.

Circumstantial ad hominem points out that someone is in circumstances such that they are disposed to take a particular position. It constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. When a statement is challenged by making an ad hominem attack on its author, it is important to draw a distinction between whether the statement in question was an argument or a statement of fact (testimony).

The problem is that cloak doesnt purge, but rather only supresses dots while it is active, (you still have all the snares and roots and etc on you) therefore there is a hole in the argument to begin with. Disregarding someone's argument solely based on status or being permits disregardment of such disregardment.

I am certain you can see the difference with what I actually said "Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. (purge features)" and saying it actually purges.

JobooAGS

Soul_Demon wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

invalidation invalid of attacking the person instead of the argument

What you suggest is ad hominem, but the statement is actually circumstantial ad hominem. However you are incorrect, and with a bit of explanation I am sure you will see the difference.

Circumstantial ad hominem points out that someone is in circumstances such that they are disposed to take a particular position. It constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. When a statement is challenged by making an ad hominem attack on its author, it is important to draw a distinction between whether the statement in question was an argument or a statement of fact (testimony).

The problem is that cloak doesnt purge, but rather only supresses dots while it is active, (you still have all the snares and roots and etc on you) therefore there is a hole in the argument to begin with. Disregarding someone's argument solely based on status or being permits disregardment of such disregardment.

I am certain you can see the difference with what I actually said "Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. (purge features)" and saying it actually purges.

There is a clear difference when you are rooted, snared and cannot attack while getting rid of such dots as the moment you are out of cloak, you have the dots reticking on you, you are a turtle at a crawl without a shell, and you are likely oom

Soul_Demon

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Cloak is as over performing as mist form is and all the players using it fully know this- hence they build and play with it as crutch and flock to forum to defend even a reasonable point that it is over performing. Why? Because without it, they go back to running circles around rocks dodge rolling endlessly between ulti drops on new players.

Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. Forget the "miss" projectiles feature and the purge features.....the cost for purge is obscene and who wouldn't use cloak to purge instead of purge if you are NB. The speed bonus, yeah cool, cant be targeted is cool (cant be seen) but that bonus to 10% to weapon and spell damage is nice with the ever present 8% damage reduction when it ends. Those are things that are five piece set bonus' and are made part of a skill line, way over performing.

But the real issue I have is when I am in combat I cant switch up skill on my bar to counter cloak (because I am in combat) cant enter door, mount ect......But NB's can burst and even if I DOT them the can cloak right up to not only suspend damage, but disengage and purge with the nice little 8% damage reduction when it ends (apparently the "in combat" doesn't apply to going invis when you attack for NB's). That isn't allowing counter to the skill, that is giving a bit too much to just one button push and one resource cost-

Now if ZOS allowed me to skill swap while in combat (kinda like the NB attacking and cloaking up with damage on them) I would be a step in right direction, but as with mist form- think they know they are way overperforming skills and just don't care to find some balance in them. Too tough to fix stuff compared to 'pretend not to see it'.

Argument invalid at "purge feature"

Invalidation invalid at sig line "Technohiss - DC Nightblade"

invalidation invalid of attacking the person instead of the argument

What you suggest is ad hominem, but the statement is actually circumstantial ad hominem. However you are incorrect, and with a bit of explanation I am sure you will see the difference.

Circumstantial ad hominem points out that someone is in circumstances such that they are disposed to take a particular position. It constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. When a statement is challenged by making an ad hominem attack on its author, it is important to draw a distinction between whether the statement in question was an argument or a statement of fact (testimony).

The problem is that cloak doesnt purge, but rather only supresses dots while it is active, (you still have all the snares and roots and etc on you) therefore there is a hole in the argument to begin with. Disregarding someone's argument solely based on status or being permits disregardment of such disregardment.

I am certain you can see the difference with what I actually said "Cloak simply suspends damage player should have to take- at the cost its rather easy to simply keep spamming it to completely stop a huge portion of damage by outlasting timer on it. (purge features)" and saying it actually purges.

There is a clear difference when you are rooted, snared and cannot attack while getting rid of such dots as the moment you are out of cloak, you have the dots reticking on you, you are a turtle at a crawl without a shell, and you are likely oom

So no....the answer is no you cant tell the difference. Well- that really interferes with discussion doesn't it.

dotme

I think that any player using any build that I don't have, which results in my death or is otherwise inconvenient, should have their skills removed from the game. Please and thank you.

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Circumstantial ad hominem points out that someone is in circumstances such that they are disposed to take a particular position. It constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. When a statement is challenged by making an ad hominem attack on its author, it is important to draw a distinction between whether the statement in question was an argument or a statement of fact (testimony).

Distinction isn't really that important. Circumstantial ad hominem is still a fallacy