Dark Deal and update 17

DDuke

Waffennacht wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

7s after breaking free and another 10 because of immov potion.

I'd be alright with the 7s immunity after using Stamina to break free since Stam Sorc has been in kind of a bad place for a while balance wise but the additional time to spam Dark Deal during the 10s Immunity from Immov potions is way too much. It lets you pop a potion then use Dark Deal uninterrupted to get back full health and stamina every time.

Immovability potions need to be taken out of the game. They are banned from every dueling tournament for a reason. They are broken and remove counter-play. It's too much uptime on CC immunity when you have 7s from break free then another 10s after a potion. CC'ing is one of the only ways to kill tough players otherwise the fight can just go on forever and Immovable pots are another one of those things you're forced to run because the other guy is using them just like with cost increase poisons, another thing that needs to be gone from PvP.

I'm like conversion 1.7 sec

Attack 1 sec

Cast ward plus conversion 2.7 sec

2 7k attacks 2 sec

Wtf r you worried about.?

You should kill him faster than he can heal. Unless he Los or ur a potato

That's not how it works out against a high skill Stam Sorc that can get off multiple Dark Deal without interrupt. He's getting healing from Rally, Vigor, maybe even running Troll King and Crit Surge and they're almost always in a tanky heavy armor build like Seventh Legion that also returns heals.

And you're running nothzing yourself? (Also I will say my previous posts do not refer to Stam Sorc but rather mag sorc - which may or may not make what I said irrelevant)

Those Stam sets (such as 7th) do make a difference.

I just don't see a sorc being all pumped on conversion with whips or Merc's flying

Conversion is nice for stam sorc though, as it lets you practically spam BoL to either get away from undodgeable damage like power lashes/sweeps/fossilize etc or just absorb it. I'm able to teleport around on my stam bow sorc more than magicka sorcs can: BoL->BoL->dodge roll+conversion (moving with Major Expedition)->BoL->BoL etc...

You'll never run out of resources because Conversion costs practically nothing for stam sorcs, your stam regen restores more than it costs to cast it during the cast time.

Aedaryl

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely broken. Dark deal and pets must be excluded from these changes.

Nope. Dark Deal and Pets are practically useless against savvy players in PvP because of bash/interrupt abuse. Why do you want to keep these skills useless?

The magicka morph is not that great, yes and can use buffs (other than being uninterruptable). Because it costs stamina that magicka Sorcerers do not have unless you do some crazy build that can't kill anyone anyways.

But Dark Deal, the morph that restores stamina and health is completely broken for stamina Sorcs. They are so slippery already and with this change, they can just restore all their ressources in your face. Because they don't need magicka in order to survive.

And as for pets, I never had problems summoning them when I know what I am doing. But now, you can do it without thinking twice about it. I don't mind them being unbashable, just saying that it's not necessary.

I strongly disagree with pets.

Actually on Live, if you don't run crazy damage like your build, but a more sustainable openword build set up, people are able to burst the pet quickly and if they have a gap closer, they will ALWAYS interrupt you if they are good. The 1.5s cooldown is too long. Even if you stun the ennemi by streaking into him then directly cast your pets, he will have the time to break the cc, gap close you and interrupt you.

Seriously, good people, even in open world knows they need to kill the pets, and they will ALWAYS interrupt you. Even if you streak twice, they will kill the second pet while you are casting the first.

You didn't meet the right people Dracane, you spend a lot of time in Imperial city with the imperial city set, I spend most of my time in cyrdodil and duels area, the most thing that's making pet sorc useless is that cast time interruptable. I spend a lot of time in cyrodil, and people hwo knows me focus my pets first, because they know it's an auto win, I will never be able to recast it because this is mathematically impossible to do if the ennemy react proprely.

Pet sorc can be HARD countered like it, and there is nothing you can do when someone build proprely kill your pet and interrupt you.

You are a very good pet sorc, but trust me, when someone knows how to kill a pet sorc, unless you have everything into damage, you will not be able to save your pet and your ass.

Sheesh.. still going on about pets sorc being weak? Ask Dusk for some tips on how to play one

I can tell it's far from easy to interrupt pet cast when the sorc is dropping atronachs left & right while standing behind mines - interrupts are realistically only a real problem vs people with Crushing Shock/Venom Arrow slotted. Of course if you try to recast them in melee range it's going to end up poorly against a decent player...

shhhhhhhh, come on live, I will learn you how to kill a pet sorc. Now stop saying *** about pet sorc please.

I can show you how easy it's to interrupt a pet sorc, if you don't trust me come on live and I show you.

"Of course if you try to recast them in melee range it's going to end up poorly against a decent player..."
Even with a streak stuning the ennemy, the cast time is too long, people can break, gap close or streak to you then interrupt you.

A pet sorc doesn't always have an atronach ready and overload ultimate + mines on it. And outside of a 1v1 perspective, there is nothing difficult to interupt someone. Every pet sorc aren't using a full damage build made for duel situations only.

You sound triggered lol.

Look, first of all most S&B Clown King meta builds don't run gap closer - it's the reason even bow (which uses a cast time ability far more often...) is playable in duels currently.

Second, if you do run into a build with a gap closer, all you've gotta do is keep that in mind when you next BoL & drop mines. You simply cast Wrath, Frag proc (as they're in the gap closer animation) & they're either rip (very likely) when they hit the mines, or they have to dodge roll back & play defensive which lets you resummon pets np.
If you don't play a high dmg build capable of bursting people down, that's probably your problem - you need to make people afraid of using gap closers, that's how all builds with cast time abilities function.

Third, I don't know what build you're playing, but most pet sorc builds have almost 100% uptime on atronach (even before the duration buff coming in this update) and don't need to run mines on overload bar.

I'm not super experienced with magicka sorc, but even I know this...


You should ask people like @Derra or Dusk for tips on how to play pet sorc, they beat most people in duels.


On my DK, pet sorcs are pretty much the only type of sorc capable of killing me. I'm not saying they're "op" (the only thing in the game that I'd call "op" currently is S&B on stam builds), I'm saying they're in a good spot when piloted properly.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

Critical rush is often used on S&B build. Also, streak work too.

Can you tell me the build using 2 pets (4 slots), crystal frag (1 slot), a shield (1 slot), deadric pray (1 slot), BoL (1 slot), a spammable (1slot) (Force pulse/Flame clench), fury (1 slot) and mines (1slot) ? That's 11 slots, you only have 10. SO yeah, you need to use overload. How if you use 2 shields ? and if you want storm wall and elemental drain like dracane ? Where is the place for putting all of that ? You need overload for it, and the cast of overload doesn't make it easy.

Tank doesn't die from a frag + fury + mines. Even if they are in trouble, they will interrupt you then heal themselves. You really think I never tried it ?

Can you tell the secret for a 100% atronach uptime ? I'm very curious. Oh, my little bird tell me you can't with a viable build.

Playing a build capable of bursting peopel isn't the same than playing a full damage oriented build like dracane. Of course I can burst people, but forgot that the burst need a minimum of 6s to fire.

Builds with cast time abilities doesn't work very well. You can play your snipe build on NB because of the NB kitting/sleath mechanics and the low cast time, but there is no build that have a 1.5s interruptable cast time ability.

Again, you know nothing DDuke.

Aedaryl

Dracane wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely broken. Dark deal and pets must be excluded from these changes.

Nope. Dark Deal and Pets are practically useless against savvy players in PvP because of bash/interrupt abuse. Why do you want to keep these skills useless?

The magicka morph is not that great, yes and can use buffs (other than being uninterruptable). Because it costs stamina that magicka Sorcerers do not have unless you do some crazy build that can't kill anyone anyways.

But Dark Deal, the morph that restores stamina and health is completely broken for stamina Sorcs. They are so slippery already and with this change, they can just restore all their ressources in your face. Because they don't need magicka in order to survive.

And as for pets, I never had problems summoning them when I know what I am doing. But now, you can do it without thinking twice about it. I don't mind them being unbashable, just saying that it's not necessary.

I strongly disagree with pets.

Actually on Live, if you don't run crazy damage like your build, but a more sustainable openword build set up, people are able to burst the pet quickly and if they have a gap closer, they will ALWAYS interrupt you if they are good. The 1.5s cooldown is too long. Even if you stun the ennemi by streaking into him then directly cast your pets, he will have the time to break the cc, gap close you and interrupt you.

Seriously, good people, even in open world knows they need to kill the pets, and they will ALWAYS interrupt you. Even if you streak twice, they will kill the second pet while you are casting the first.

You didn't meet the right people Dracane, you spend a lot of time in Imperial city with the imperial city set, I spend most of my time in cyrdodil and duels area, the most thing that's making pet sorc useless is that cast time interruptable. I spend a lot of time in cyrodil, and people hwo knows me focus my pets first, because they know it's an auto win, I will never be able to recast it because this is mathematically impossible to do if the ennemy react proprely.

Pet sorc can be HARD countered like it, and there is nothing you can do when someone build proprely kill your pet and interrupt you.

You are a very good pet sorc, but trust me, when someone knows how to kill a pet sorc, unless you have everything into damage, you will not be able to save your pet and your ass.

You resummon them after you stun your opponent/s, not when they are still on you.
You just have to learn. And before you make assumption, it would be needed to say, that I have very well experienced more than just the Imperial City. I have duelled alot, more than you. Just because I don't do it anymore, doesn't mean that I wasn't able to gather experience from it.

Anyway. Interrupting a pet Sorcerer can be very easy sometimes, but sometimes also tricky and that's without them performing great peaces of art. If pets become unbashable now, then I take the buff, especially the increased movement speed while casting.
You will notice that when people kill your pet, they will spam bash on you. Because they are fools and think, that you are stupid enough to try and recast them. Don't be. Keep calm and don't show them that you panic, as they will exploit it. Just pretend like everything is normal and take the chance. Of course nothing of that will matter anymore from now on

I'm agree with you on the baiting side, but as I told you, this is mathematically impossible to recast the pet without LoS around something.

The way I explained it isn't clear enough I think. Details : My matriarch died, after baiting a bit, I wait the ennemy to come to me. When he is on me I use Bol/streak. I stun him while taking range. Immedialty after the BoL/streak I recast my pet. The ennemy in that time is breaking free, gap closing me and interrupt me.

There is nothing you can do to avoid it, you don't have the time. That's not a question of l2p that's a question of time.

DDuke

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely broken. Dark deal and pets must be excluded from these changes.

Nope. Dark Deal and Pets are practically useless against savvy players in PvP because of bash/interrupt abuse. Why do you want to keep these skills useless?

The magicka morph is not that great, yes and can use buffs (other than being uninterruptable). Because it costs stamina that magicka Sorcerers do not have unless you do some crazy build that can't kill anyone anyways.

But Dark Deal, the morph that restores stamina and health is completely broken for stamina Sorcs. They are so slippery already and with this change, they can just restore all their ressources in your face. Because they don't need magicka in order to survive.

And as for pets, I never had problems summoning them when I know what I am doing. But now, you can do it without thinking twice about it. I don't mind them being unbashable, just saying that it's not necessary.

I strongly disagree with pets.

Actually on Live, if you don't run crazy damage like your build, but a more sustainable openword build set up, people are able to burst the pet quickly and if they have a gap closer, they will ALWAYS interrupt you if they are good. The 1.5s cooldown is too long. Even if you stun the ennemi by streaking into him then directly cast your pets, he will have the time to break the cc, gap close you and interrupt you.

Seriously, good people, even in open world knows they need to kill the pets, and they will ALWAYS interrupt you. Even if you streak twice, they will kill the second pet while you are casting the first.

You didn't meet the right people Dracane, you spend a lot of time in Imperial city with the imperial city set, I spend most of my time in cyrdodil and duels area, the most thing that's making pet sorc useless is that cast time interruptable. I spend a lot of time in cyrodil, and people hwo knows me focus my pets first, because they know it's an auto win, I will never be able to recast it because this is mathematically impossible to do if the ennemy react proprely.

Pet sorc can be HARD countered like it, and there is nothing you can do when someone build proprely kill your pet and interrupt you.

You are a very good pet sorc, but trust me, when someone knows how to kill a pet sorc, unless you have everything into damage, you will not be able to save your pet and your ass.

Sheesh.. still going on about pets sorc being weak? Ask Dusk for some tips on how to play one

I can tell it's far from easy to interrupt pet cast when the sorc is dropping atronachs left & right while standing behind mines - interrupts are realistically only a real problem vs people with Crushing Shock/Venom Arrow slotted. Of course if you try to recast them in melee range it's going to end up poorly against a decent player...

shhhhhhhh, come on live, I will learn you how to kill a pet sorc. Now stop saying *** about pet sorc please.

I can show you how easy it's to interrupt a pet sorc, if you don't trust me come on live and I show you.

"Of course if you try to recast them in melee range it's going to end up poorly against a decent player..."
Even with a streak stuning the ennemy, the cast time is too long, people can break, gap close or streak to you then interrupt you.

A pet sorc doesn't always have an atronach ready and overload ultimate + mines on it. And outside of a 1v1 perspective, there is nothing difficult to interupt someone. Every pet sorc aren't using a full damage build made for duel situations only.

You sound triggered lol.

Look, first of all most S&B Clown King meta builds don't run gap closer - it's the reason even bow (which uses a cast time ability far more often...) is playable in duels currently.

Second, if you do run into a build with a gap closer, all you've gotta do is keep that in mind when you next BoL & drop mines. You simply cast Wrath, Frag proc (as they're in the gap closer animation) & they're either rip (very likely) when they hit the mines, or they have to dodge roll back & play defensive which lets you resummon pets np.
If you don't play a high dmg build capable of bursting people down, that's probably your problem - you need to make people afraid of using gap closers, that's how all builds with cast time abilities function.

Third, I don't know what build you're playing, but most pet sorc builds have almost 100% uptime on atronach (even before the duration buff coming in this update) and don't need to run mines on overload bar.

I'm not super experienced with magicka sorc, but even I know this...


You should ask people like @Derra or Dusk for tips on how to play pet sorc, they beat most people in duels.


On my DK, pet sorcs are pretty much the only type of sorc capable of killing me. I'm not saying they're "op" (the only thing in the game that I'd call "op" currently is S&B on stam builds), I'm saying they're in a good spot when piloted properly.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

Critical rush is often used on S&B build. Also, streak work too.

Crit Rush is a 2H skill (and having it on off bar is clunky to say the least). What most of the meta builds do is run immovable+speed pots & Forward Momentum. Not saying I agree with that (I think gap closer makes any melee build better), but it is what it is.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Can you tell me the build using 2 pets (4 slots), crystal frag (1 slot), a shield (1 slot), deadric pray (1 slot), BoL (1 slot), a spammable (1slot) (Force pulse/Flame clench), fury (1 slot) and mines (1slot) ? That's 11 slots, you only have 10. SO yeah, you need to use overload. How if you use 2 shields ? and if you want storm wall and elemental drain like dracane ? Where is the place for putting all of that ? You need overload for it, and the cast of overload doesn't make it easy.

Easy. Move the 6s duration Daedric Prey to the Overload bar, or run without Frags & use Master Destro Flame Clench there instead.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Tank doesn't die from a frag + fury + mines. Even if they are in trouble, they will interrupt you then heal themselves. You really think I never tried it ?

If a tank doesn't die to your burst combo even when not blocking & while eating mines, you have bigger problems than your pets dying. That fight was over before it even began.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Can you tell the secret for a 100% atronach uptime ? I'm very curious. Oh, my little bird tell me you can't with a viable build.

I said almost. The downtime between atronachs is like the downtime between stamblade Incaps - minimal.

You'd need 6 ultimate/second to have a 100% uptime, so with light attacks you're only missing 3/s, which you can achieve with Major Heroism buff (or something like Tava's). Sure, not viable - but good to know nonetheless :P

Aedaryl wrote: »

Playing a build capable of bursting peopel isn't the same than playing a full damage oriented build like dracane. Of course I can burst people, but forgot that the burst need a minimum of 6s to fire.

No, you can't burst people if you fail to kill someone who's eating your mines & not blocking (i.e. using a gap closer while you're standing on mines).

Here's a thought: try using the BoL->Mines as your Curse is about to pop - there's a prime opportunity for you to resummon your pets because very few people are mad enough to gap close into mines when a curse is about to go off - unless they're really not afraid of your damage.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Builds with cast time abilities doesn't work very well. You can play your snipe build on NB because of the NB kitting/sleath mechanics and the low cast time, but there is no build that have a 1.5s interruptable cast time ability.

Again, you know nothing DDuke.

What if I told you magicka sorcs kite even better than stamblades? I'd trade my 90% of time useless cloak for BoL in a heartbeat, just as I'd trade my fear trap for (stamina) mines any day.


Anyway, it doesn't seem like any of the other people playing pet sorc have issues resummoning their pets (or they'd be here complaining as well & would actually lose some duels too).

No offense, but that's probably a personal misplay you're making rather than something being wrong with the class.

My advise: spend some time at the Alik'r duel spot & observe how other pet sorcs deal with people trying to interrupt them.

Ashamray

Agreed with OP, but honestly pets are so stupid that I personally don't mind if summoning will become uninterruptible.

Aedaryl

DDuke wrote: »

Easy. Move the 6s duration Daedric Prey to the Overload bar, or run without Frags & use Master Destro Flame Clench there instead.

That not what you said, you was telling me I could use a combinaison of skills that doesn't have the space in bars while saying that combinaison didn't need overload bar and it's false, you made a mistake, accept it.

You try to denied your mistake with that proposition "easy" but curse on overload isn't viable, ask to every pet sorc. Like a build without crystal frag is just STUPID. Again a mistake, stop damage here.

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Tank doesn't die from a frag + fury + mines. Even if they are in trouble, they will interrupt you then heal themselves. You really think I never tried it ?

If a tank doesn't die to your burst combo even when not blocking & while eating mines, you have bigger problems than your pets dying. That fight was over before it even began.

You are saying the pet sorc burst is Frag + fury and then mines can be added. This is so wrong, really again a mistake. What do think is the pet sorc burst ? Not Frag + fury you spoke about.

DDuke wrote: »

I said almost. The downtime between atronachs is like the downtime between stamblade Incaps - minimal.

You'd need 6 ultimate/second to have a 100% uptime, so with light attacks you're only missing 3/s, which you can achieve with Major Heroism buff (or something like Tava's). Sure, not viable - but good to know nonetheless :P

This is a mistake, here is why : you need 56.6 so 57s for having a atro. The atro last 28s so it's half of the ultimate. You need 29s for having it up after your first atronach is down. Incap need 23s to be up with light attacks. The siphoning passive make you gain 4 ultimate when you refresh your leeching strike, that's now an incap ever 20s and you will get 20 ultimate every 45s so you your incap cost between 14s and 20s depending if you have a potion or not. So you need 50% more time or 28.6% more time to have an atronach up than having incap up. This is not that similar. "Almost 100% up" is different of 50% up and it's not "minimal".

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Playing a build capable of bursting peopel isn't the same than playing a full damage oriented build like dracane. Of course I can burst people, but forgot that the burst need a minimum of 6s to fire.

No, you can't burst people if you fail to kill someone who's eating your mines & not blocking (i.e. using a gap closer while you're standing on mines).

It's just stupid, the pet sorc burst is a minimal of 6s, doesn't matter hwo play it. You also seems to forget that mines have 3s arming, so you can gap close before mines are ups.

DDuke wrote: »

Here's a thought: try using the BoL->Mines as your Curse is about to pop - there's a prime opportunity for you to resummon your pets because very few people are mad enough to gap close into mines when a curse is about to go off - unless they're really not afraid of your damage.

Again mines need 3s to arm and I need to go overload for it.

DDuke wrote: »

What if I told you magicka sorcs kite even better than stamblades? I'd trade my 90% of time useless cloak for BoL in a heartbeat, just as I'd trade my fear trap for (stamina) mines any day.

Here a mistake again. Stamina NB is far better to kite than sorc : stamina NB can sprint, cloak, shadow image, have major expedition to kite. Pet sorc have streak/BoL and it's countering by gap closer. I streak ? use gap closer. Then repeat, then I'm OOM.

DDuke wrote: »

Anyway, it doesn't seem like any of the other people playing pet sorc have issues resummoning their pets (or they'd be here complaining as well & would actually lose some duels too).

No offense, but that's probably a personal misplay you're making rather than something being wrong with the class.

My advise: spend some time at the Alik'r duel spot & observe how other pet sorcs deal with people trying to interrupt them.

There is 2 pet sorc active on this forum section. Me and Dracane, so saying I'm the only one complaining about it here is 50% of the pet sorc active here. Again, come on live I will show you that's not possible to recast if the ennemy react proprely. And don't think pet sorc never loose 1v1. An openworld pet sorc build can die in 1v1. A full damage oriented pet sorc made for dueling in alikir desert will have a lot of fun there immo. But the goal of duel is to be better in openworld, not changing skills, gear, and cp for dueling the guy you face then being wreck in cyrodil.

ak_pvp

Dark deal spam in the face would be annoying in some scenarios. But, it is a cast time ability where they cannot attack/defend and are open to take damage, possibly from various sources and is using mag that could be used to streak away.

Also, @ removing immo pots. HELL NO. Getting CC'd every 6s by groups who can do that is absolutely awful, and hurts solo the most because hard CC is often single target. Badbadbad.

DDuke

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Easy. Move the 6s duration Daedric Prey to the Overload bar, or run without Frags & use Master Destro Flame Clench there instead.

That not what you said, you was telling me I could use a combinaison of skills that doesn't have the space in bars while saying that combinaison didn't need overload bar and it's false, you made a mistake, accept it.

You try to denied your mistake with that proposition "easy" but curse on overload isn't viable, ask to every pet sorc. Like a build without crystal frag is just STUPID. Again a mistake, stop damage here.

Ok, let's take a step back & look at what I actually said:

DDuke wrote:

Third, I don't know what build you're playing, but most pet sorc builds have almost 100% uptime on atronach (even before the duration buff coming in this update*) and don't need to run mines on overload bar.

*This is actually wrong, thanks Dracane for correcting me. Good thing they aren't buffing the viable morph's duration lol


I didn't say you can run any specific combination of skills on your bar along with having mines on off bar.

I also wonder how many have actually tried having Curse on overload bar - if your problem is that you're getting interrupted then the logical solution to that is having an anti-interrupt/melee skill more easily available to you.

Many sorcs run without Frags these days, it hasn't really been a must have on bar since the removal of the stun (pet sorcs in particular tend to use the scamp stun for CC these days). I believe Blobs for example has a pet build that doesn't run Frags at all: https://youtu.be/Qq3VjLN8ILA

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Tank doesn't die from a frag + fury + mines. Even if they are in trouble, they will interrupt you then heal themselves. You really think I never tried it ?

If a tank doesn't die to your burst combo even when not blocking & while eating mines, you have bigger problems than your pets dying. That fight was over before it even began.

You are saying the pet sorc burst is Frag + fury and then mines can be added. This is so wrong, really again a mistake. What do think is the pet sorc burst ? Not Frag + fury you spoke about.

Doesn't have to be frags+fury, you can just as well use Overload or DBOS as the burst, or even just Master Destro Flame Clench+Curse+Fury procs at the same time if you're playing a high dmg build.

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I said almost. The downtime between atronachs is like the downtime between stamblade Incaps - minimal.

You'd need 6 ultimate/second to have a 100% uptime, so with light attacks you're only missing 3/s, which you can achieve with Major Heroism buff (or something like Tava's). Sure, not viable - but good to know nonetheless :P

This is a mistake, here is why : you need 56.6 so 57s for having a atro. The atro last 28s so it's half of the ultimate. You need 29s for having it up after your first atronach is down. Incap need 23s to be up with light attacks. The siphoning passive make you gain 4 ultimate when you refresh your leeching strike, that's now an incap ever 20s and you will get 20 ultimate every 45s so you your incap cost between 14s and 20s depending if you have a potion or not. So you need 50% more time or 28.6% more time to have an atronach up than having incap up. This is not that similar. You have atronach half of time, and this is not "minimal".

20 seconds or 29 seconds, it's very similar lol.

Especially when you consider (which you didn't) the fact that a stamblade doesn't just drop the Incap as soon as it's up again (like atro is used), but waits for a burst opportunity (and has to be in melee range to actually use it).

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Playing a build capable of bursting peopel isn't the same than playing a full damage oriented build like dracane. Of course I can burst people, but forgot that the burst need a minimum of 6s to fire.

No, you can't burst people if you fail to kill someone who's eating your mines & not blocking (i.e. using a gap closer while you're standing on mines).

It's just stupid, the pet sorc burst is a minimal of 6s, doesn't matter hwo play it. You also seems to forget that mines have 3s arming, so you can gap close before mines are ups.

...which is conveniently almost the same time it takes to CC Break+Gap Close, bravo. So you hit people with your burst while they can't dodge/block anything (gap closer animation) & then once the animation finishes those mines pop, they hit 20%, wrath pops, target dead. Unless you play some potato build with zero dmg.

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Here's a thought: try using the BoL->Mines as your Curse is about to pop - there's a prime opportunity for you to resummon your pets because very few people are mad enough to gap close into mines when a curse is about to go off - unless they're really not afraid of your damage.

Again mines need 3s to arm and I need to go overload for it.

Here's the whole ordeal:

1. Curse
2. Shield up
3. BoL (you spend around 1s in animation)
4. Opponent spends around 1s CC breaking
5. You to drop mines
6. Wrath
7. Opponent casts gap closer
8. Cast Frags, Overload Light Attack, whatever your burst consists of
9. Opponent takes a billion damage because he couldn't block/dodge
10. Oppponent arrives to your location, gets to maybe cast one skill
11. Mines explode
12. Wrath goes off, maybe Implosion passive too
13. rip

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What if I told you magicka sorcs kite even better than stamblades? I'd trade my 90% of time useless cloak for BoL in a heartbeat, just as I'd trade my fear trap for (stamina) mines any day.

Here a mistake again. Stamina NB is far better to kite than sorc : stamina NB can sprint, cloak, shadow image, have major expedition to kite. Pet sorc have streak/BoL and it's countering by gap closer. I streak ? use gap closer. Then repeat, then I'm OOM.

• Anyone can sprint (not a NB skill, and actually blocks your stam regen entirely much like blocking, no bueno)
• Cloak fails 90% of time and can be hardcountered by certain abilities (both bugged & intentional).
• Shadow Image isn't currently working and when it actually works it doesn't absorb incoming undodgeable projectiles (and even things like Meteor, Soul Assault etc) like BoL does.
• Major Expedition isn't a stamblade skill either, you can even get a 100% uptime of it from a potion.
• Even my stam sorc with 10k magicka can BoL twice in a row without running out of magicka. I'm starting to understand why you have problems playing sorc.

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Anyway, it doesn't seem like any of the other people playing pet sorc have issues resummoning their pets (or they'd be here complaining as well & would actually lose some duels too).

No offense, but that's probably a personal misplay you're making rather than something being wrong with the class.

My advise: spend some time at the Alik'r duel spot & observe how other pet sorcs deal with people trying to interrupt them.

There is 2 pet sorc active on this forum section. Me and Dracane, so saying I'm the only one complaining about it here is 50% of the pet sorc active here. Again, come on live I will show you that's not possible to recast if the ennemy react proprely.

Derra also plays a lot of pet sorc.

I don't, as I find the build variety too limited for my taste. I do have several builds that utilize cast time abilities though (without the kiting tools/area denial/shield survivability of sorcs), I'd like to see you interrupt even one Snipe or Dark Conversion or Dark Flare - I'm not [snip] enough to cast them in melee range

Aedaryl wrote: »

And don't think pet sorc never loose 1v1. An openworld pet sorc build can die in 1v1. A full damage oriented pet sorc made for dueling in alikir desert will have a lot of fun there immo. But the goal of duel is to be better in openworld, not changing skills, gear, and cp for dueling the guy you face then being wreck in cyrodil.

"An openworld pet sorc build". Now why would you bring one to duels?

And how can those "full damage oriented pet sorcs" have fun if they get interrupted non-stop while resummoning their pets? :thinking:


If your build isn't working at duels, then you adjust it - it's really that simple.
Be warned though: very few builds actually work at duels these days thanks to all the heavy armor S&B Clown King heroes.

NyassaV

I feel like 7 seconds is too long... I'd think 4-5 would be better

Sixty5

Except the issue here is that you are ignoring the fact that a Sorcs off resource pool isn't endless.

If you are running a Mag Sorc with Shacklebreaker and tri-stat enchants, you'll hit 16k-ish Stamina.

In that case, you cast the first Dark Conversion and get interrupted, meaning you lose the stamina, and the ability is cancelled. You lose 2.4k stam, putting you at 13.6k.
You are now stunned, meaning you have to break free, costing another 3k or so stam;.
At 10k Stam, a Sorc can now cast 4 Dark Conversions, which the grace period should allow them to do. Except now they have zero stamina, and haven't really moved from where they started, and have no shields up.
20k HP with Light armour isn't really all that much survivability.

Likewise on a Stam Sorc, you'll get 4-5 Dark Deals out of your magicka pool before running dry, and that is assuming you haven't had to use streak at any point recently.

Additionally interrupts will now also set a target off balance, opening them up to massive damage from a heavy attack, along with a large potential resource restore for the one interrupting them.

Basically, I don't believe that the changes will make Dark Deal spamming any more effective than it is now, which is to say, suicidal if you do it out in the open.
As a Stam Sorc player, I can't really remember the last time I didn't get line of sight broken before Dark Dealing up, simply because if I need Dark Deal, I cannot risk the stun in the first place.

DDuke

Sixty5 wrote: »

Except the issue here is that you are ignoring the fact that a Sorcs off resource pool isn't endless.

If you are running a Mag Sorc with Shacklebreaker and tri-stat enchants, you'll hit 16k-ish Stamina.

In that case, you cast the first Dark Conversion and get interrupted, meaning you lose the stamina, and the ability is cancelled. You lose 2.4k stam, putting you at 13.6k.
You are now stunned, meaning you have to break free, costing another 3k or so stam;.
At 10k Stam, a Sorc can now cast 4 Dark Conversions, which the grace period should allow them to do. Except now they have zero stamina, and haven't really moved from where they started, and have no shields up.
20k HP with Light armour isn't really all that much survivability.

Likewise on a Stam Sorc, you'll get 4-5 Dark Deals out of your magicka pool before running dry, and that is assuming you haven't had to use streak at any point recently.

Additionally interrupts will now also set a target off balance, opening them up to massive damage from a heavy attack, along with a large potential resource restore for the one interrupting them.

Basically, I don't believe that the changes will make Dark Deal spamming any more effective than it is now, which is to say, suicidal if you do it out in the open.
As a Stam Sorc player, I can't really remember the last time I didn't get line of sight broken before Dark Dealing up, simply because if I need Dark Deal, I cannot risk the stun in the first place.

Ever thought about using the opposite morphs of that skill?

I believe a magicka sorc gets way more value by casting the relatively cheaper (since magicka cost is reduced by light armor passives) Dark Deal as a way to have infinite stamina (i.e. after CC breaking you cast it & voila, full stamina again). This lets you CC break more, block more, dodge more etc, which in the end very likely winds up saving you magicka as well.

Also as stam sorc, I feel Dark Conversion is way more valuable for the reason you stated: you also need that magicka for BoLs, refreshing Crit Surge etc.

It also gets reduced by medium armor passives (if you're using medium armor) and winds up costing just 1836 stamina/cast with 5 medium.

Being able to BoL pretty much infinitely (BoL->BoL->Conversion->BoL->BoL etc) also means you'll wind up saving stamina since you're spending a lot of time avoiding dmg with a skill that costs magicka while your stam pool recovers.

Derra

It´s basically impossible to loose both pets on a petsorc against a single opponent. If you did you made a mistake.
However if you have one pet it´s not possible for the opponent to kill said pet without the sorc recasting their other pet. As soon as you get attro up you should be able to recast all you want.

I don´t think fragments is even remotely required on petsorc nowadays. The skill is absolutely obsolete since it no longer stuns. Same goes for fury. Fury is the skill i deslot first for anything resembling a dueling situation even on "normal" sorc builds.

That being said. I respecced away from pets again bc those little idiots are nowadays worse than they ever were open world.
They get simply stuck on rocks and take sometimes 5+ minutes to reappear even through multiple passive/attack cycles.
Whoever designed them in their current form should be fired.

Sixty5

DDuke wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Except the issue here is that you are ignoring the fact that a Sorcs off resource pool isn't endless.

If you are running a Mag Sorc with Shacklebreaker and tri-stat enchants, you'll hit 16k-ish Stamina.

In that case, you cast the first Dark Conversion and get interrupted, meaning you lose the stamina, and the ability is cancelled. You lose 2.4k stam, putting you at 13.6k.
You are now stunned, meaning you have to break free, costing another 3k or so stam;.
At 10k Stam, a Sorc can now cast 4 Dark Conversions, which the grace period should allow them to do. Except now they have zero stamina, and haven't really moved from where they started, and have no shields up.
20k HP with Light armour isn't really all that much survivability.

Likewise on a Stam Sorc, you'll get 4-5 Dark Deals out of your magicka pool before running dry, and that is assuming you haven't had to use streak at any point recently.

Additionally interrupts will now also set a target off balance, opening them up to massive damage from a heavy attack, along with a large potential resource restore for the one interrupting them.

Basically, I don't believe that the changes will make Dark Deal spamming any more effective than it is now, which is to say, suicidal if you do it out in the open.
As a Stam Sorc player, I can't really remember the last time I didn't get line of sight broken before Dark Dealing up, simply because if I need Dark Deal, I cannot risk the stun in the first place.

Ever thought about using the opposite morphs of that skill?

I believe a magicka sorc gets way more value by casting the relatively cheaper (since magicka cost is reduced by light armor passives) Dark Deal as a way to have infinite stamina (i.e. after CC breaking you cast it & voila, full stamina again). This lets you CC break more, block more, dodge more etc, which in the end very likely winds up saving you magicka as well.

Also as stam sorc, I feel Dark Conversion is way more valuable for the reason you stated: you also need that magicka for BoLs, refreshing Crit Surge etc.

It also gets reduced by medium armor passives (if you're using medium armor) and winds up costing just 1836 stamina/cast with 5 medium.

Being able to BoL pretty much infinitely (BoL->BoL->Conversion->BoL->BoL etc) also means you'll wind up saving stamina since you're spending a lot of time avoiding dmg with a skill that costs magicka while your stam pool recovers.

On paper it sounds good, but the issue I have there is that on of the big advantages Sorcs have is that they don't need to go super hard on recovery for their main resource to be able sustain.
Running something like Shacklebreaker in non-cp or putting a few points into the off resource node in CP lets you get away with 1400 recovery and go hard elsewhere for damage.

I can definitely see the point in running same resource conversion, but I feel like it would be something you'd only really want to do if you were running Lich or Bone Pirate.

DDuke

Sixty5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Except the issue here is that you are ignoring the fact that a Sorcs off resource pool isn't endless.

If you are running a Mag Sorc with Shacklebreaker and tri-stat enchants, you'll hit 16k-ish Stamina.

In that case, you cast the first Dark Conversion and get interrupted, meaning you lose the stamina, and the ability is cancelled. You lose 2.4k stam, putting you at 13.6k.
You are now stunned, meaning you have to break free, costing another 3k or so stam;.
At 10k Stam, a Sorc can now cast 4 Dark Conversions, which the grace period should allow them to do. Except now they have zero stamina, and haven't really moved from where they started, and have no shields up.
20k HP with Light armour isn't really all that much survivability.

Likewise on a Stam Sorc, you'll get 4-5 Dark Deals out of your magicka pool before running dry, and that is assuming you haven't had to use streak at any point recently.

Additionally interrupts will now also set a target off balance, opening them up to massive damage from a heavy attack, along with a large potential resource restore for the one interrupting them.

Basically, I don't believe that the changes will make Dark Deal spamming any more effective than it is now, which is to say, suicidal if you do it out in the open.
As a Stam Sorc player, I can't really remember the last time I didn't get line of sight broken before Dark Dealing up, simply because if I need Dark Deal, I cannot risk the stun in the first place.

Ever thought about using the opposite morphs of that skill?

I believe a magicka sorc gets way more value by casting the relatively cheaper (since magicka cost is reduced by light armor passives) Dark Deal as a way to have infinite stamina (i.e. after CC breaking you cast it & voila, full stamina again). This lets you CC break more, block more, dodge more etc, which in the end very likely winds up saving you magicka as well.

Also as stam sorc, I feel Dark Conversion is way more valuable for the reason you stated: you also need that magicka for BoLs, refreshing Crit Surge etc.

It also gets reduced by medium armor passives (if you're using medium armor) and winds up costing just 1836 stamina/cast with 5 medium.

Being able to BoL pretty much infinitely (BoL->BoL->Conversion->BoL->BoL etc) also means you'll wind up saving stamina since you're spending a lot of time avoiding dmg with a skill that costs magicka while your stam pool recovers.

On paper it sounds good, but the issue I have there is that on of the big advantages Sorcs have is that they don't need to go super hard on recovery for their main resource to be able sustain.
Running something like Shacklebreaker in non-cp or putting a few points into the off resource node in CP lets you get away with 1400 recovery and go hard elsewhere for damage.

I can definitely see the point in running same resource conversion, but I feel like it would be something you'd only really want to do if you were running Lich or Bone Pirate.

Can't say about magicka sorc (haven't tested enough), but stam sorc definitely doesn't need Bone Pirate to sustain.

Just being able to BoL infinitely helps a lot (both with stam sustain & survivability) & the rest of stam sustain is just a matter of how many heavy attack weaves you need to do (which will restore double resources next patch on ppl you've put off balance with Tactician).

Sixty5

DDuke wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Except the issue here is that you are ignoring the fact that a Sorcs off resource pool isn't endless.

If you are running a Mag Sorc with Shacklebreaker and tri-stat enchants, you'll hit 16k-ish Stamina.

In that case, you cast the first Dark Conversion and get interrupted, meaning you lose the stamina, and the ability is cancelled. You lose 2.4k stam, putting you at 13.6k.
You are now stunned, meaning you have to break free, costing another 3k or so stam;.
At 10k Stam, a Sorc can now cast 4 Dark Conversions, which the grace period should allow them to do. Except now they have zero stamina, and haven't really moved from where they started, and have no shields up.
20k HP with Light armour isn't really all that much survivability.

Likewise on a Stam Sorc, you'll get 4-5 Dark Deals out of your magicka pool before running dry, and that is assuming you haven't had to use streak at any point recently.

Additionally interrupts will now also set a target off balance, opening them up to massive damage from a heavy attack, along with a large potential resource restore for the one interrupting them.

Basically, I don't believe that the changes will make Dark Deal spamming any more effective than it is now, which is to say, suicidal if you do it out in the open.
As a Stam Sorc player, I can't really remember the last time I didn't get line of sight broken before Dark Dealing up, simply because if I need Dark Deal, I cannot risk the stun in the first place.

Ever thought about using the opposite morphs of that skill?

I believe a magicka sorc gets way more value by casting the relatively cheaper (since magicka cost is reduced by light armor passives) Dark Deal as a way to have infinite stamina (i.e. after CC breaking you cast it & voila, full stamina again). This lets you CC break more, block more, dodge more etc, which in the end very likely winds up saving you magicka as well.

Also as stam sorc, I feel Dark Conversion is way more valuable for the reason you stated: you also need that magicka for BoLs, refreshing Crit Surge etc.

It also gets reduced by medium armor passives (if you're using medium armor) and winds up costing just 1836 stamina/cast with 5 medium.

Being able to BoL pretty much infinitely (BoL->BoL->Conversion->BoL->BoL etc) also means you'll wind up saving stamina since you're spending a lot of time avoiding dmg with a skill that costs magicka while your stam pool recovers.

On paper it sounds good, but the issue I have there is that on of the big advantages Sorcs have is that they don't need to go super hard on recovery for their main resource to be able sustain.
Running something like Shacklebreaker in non-cp or putting a few points into the off resource node in CP lets you get away with 1400 recovery and go hard elsewhere for damage.

I can definitely see the point in running same resource conversion, but I feel like it would be something you'd only really want to do if you were running Lich or Bone Pirate.

Can't say about magicka sorc (haven't tested enough), but stam sorc definitely doesn't need Bone Pirate to sustain.

Just being able to BoL infinitely helps a lot (both with stam sustain & survivability) & the rest of stam sustain is just a matter of how many heavy attack weaves you need to do (which will restore double resources next patch on ppl you've put off balance with Tactician).

Shacklebreaker is actually a godsend to stam sorc, because it gives you so much of what you want.

Emma_Overload

olsborg wrote: »

Id be fine if the immunetime was 3s, same as the cooldown to use the skill again, but 7s is a joke, for any of the cast time skills/spells, but with dark deal its ridiculous.

If you have 60%+ health when you gain the immunity and you have resources to cast dark deal (as a stamsorc) 3-4 times during that time you will be back to full hp and full stam within that time....the kicker is...theres nothing the oponent can do about it except stand and watch as he spams deal.

LOL, what would be the point of setting the cooldown AND the immunity to 3 seconds... the Sorc would NEVER be able to complete a cast of an interrupted spell!

Vaoh

Why did they need to “fix” a system that wasn’t broken? I hate all of these interrupt changes. The system was good. Smh

Vapirko

Derra wrote: »

Imo it´s fine for dark deal BUT darkdeal should get a 2s stacking resource return decrease of 20% - meaning it can be spammed for healing but not to gain massive amounts of resources back.

Why do i think its fine otherwise? It´s the sorcs resource return mechanic and needs to be vaible against competent opponents aswell (which it currently is not).

This should also apply to bol.

Ragnaroek93

So they are removing the only kind of counterplay which you have against a class which is already insanely strong in duels (petsorc)...

Derra

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

So they are removing the only kind of counterplay which you have against a class which is already insanely strong in duels (petsorc)...

Realisticly dueling with specific dueling builds should not play any role in balancing efforts.

Petsorc is utter trash even below garbage tier for any pvp that does involve more than 2 players and/or does not revolve around flat terrain around a flag.

Literally the only thing someone has to do to never die to a petsorc open world is run away in a straigt line past some kind of environmental obstacle. Done.

If it´s problematic in duels - so what? It´s banned in any competetive format i´ve ever heared of since pets got buffed and it´s not like anyone forces you to duel petsorcs.
They´re irrelevant to any argument made about balance bc there is no involuntary encounter where they´re problematic.

Minalan

Dracane wrote: »

Completely broken. Dark deal and pets must be excluded from these changes.

Derra wrote: »

It´s basically impossible to loose both pets on a petsorc against a single opponent. If you did you made a mistake.
However if you have one pet it´s not possible for the opponent to kill said pet without the sorc recasting their other pet. As soon as you get attro up you should be able to recast all you want.

I don´t think fragments is even remotely required on petsorc nowadays. The skill is absolutely obsolete since it no longer stuns. Same goes for fury. Fury is the skill i deslot first for anything resembling a dueling situation even on "normal" sorc builds.

That being said. I respecced away from pets again bc those little idiots are nowadays worse than they ever were open world.
They get simply stuck on rocks and take sometimes 5+ minutes to reappear even through multiple passive/attack cycles.
Whoever designed them in their current form should be fired.

Can’t agree more on the last paragraph...

The issue is pet control, and fitting a proper/complex scheme in somehow on a console controller. So they give pets normal NPC AI, which is pretty terrible.

Minalan

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Id be fine if the immunetime was 3s, same as the cooldown to use the skill again, but 7s is a joke, for any of the cast time skills/spells, but with dark deal its ridiculous.

If you have 60%+ health when you gain the immunity and you have resources to cast dark deal (as a stamsorc) 3-4 times during that time you will be back to full hp and full stam within that time....the kicker is...theres nothing the oponent can do about it except stand and watch as he spams deal.

LOL, what would be the point of setting the cooldown AND the immunity to 3 seconds... the Sorc would NEVER be able to complete a cast of an interrupted spell!

Channeled spells should always be interruptible. Period. End of discussion. Please stop the bad players from casting in my face.

If you can’t get a spell off, seriously L2P.

You get streak. You get major or minor expedition with lightning form/hurricane. You can withdraw and LOS. You can dodge roll. You can CC the other guy with rune cage. You can resto ult and enjoy a few seconds of god mode while you escape. There is so much counterplay that we don’t need the immunity window. Stop it!

If you are a Sorc that cant channel it is your fault alone.

olsborg

Pets is not a problem in cyrodiil in open world, they are beyond stupid and does their own thing, this includes the warden bear too.

The problem I foresee is sorcs taking a big advantage over having 7s of uninterruptable dark dealing. Eough estimate is sorcs will be able to turn cc immunity into 15k+ resources (depending on build)

Ashamray

Minalan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Id be fine if the immunetime was 3s, same as the cooldown to use the skill again, but 7s is a joke, for any of the cast time skills/spells, but with dark deal its ridiculous.

If you have 60%+ health when you gain the immunity and you have resources to cast dark deal (as a stamsorc) 3-4 times during that time you will be back to full hp and full stam within that time....the kicker is...theres nothing the oponent can do about it except stand and watch as he spams deal.

LOL, what would be the point of setting the cooldown AND the immunity to 3 seconds... the Sorc would NEVER be able to complete a cast of an interrupted spell!

Channeled spells should always be interruptible. Period. End of discussion. Please stop the bad players from casting in my face.

If you can’t get a spell off, seriously L2P.

You get streak. You get major or minor expedition with lightning form/hurricane. You can withdraw and LOS. You can dodge roll. You can CC the other guy with rune cage. You can resto ult and enjoy a few seconds of god mode while you escape. There is so much counterplay that we don’t need the immunity window. Stop it!

If you are a Sorc that cant channel it is your fault alone.

it's not that simple. Because everything is interruptible, I rarely see Templar using Dark Flare or Healing Ritual. Well, Healing Ritual still will be bad but I can at least cast this dodgeable long-travel Dark Flare safely. When you casting, you vulnurable, and it's not *my* fault. Should I only strike from rocks and walls like now? I actually don't like such a niche skills.

Derra

olsborg wrote: »

Pets is not a problem in cyrodiil in open world, they are beyond stupid and does their own thing, this includes the warden bear too.

The problem I foresee is sorcs taking a big advantage over having 7s of uninterruptable dark dealing. Eough estimate is sorcs will be able to turn cc immunity into 15k+ resources (depending on build)

Well you can´t exclude dark deal from the changes bc if you could lockout a sorc completely from darkdeal (no interrupt immunity during cc immunity - still 3s lockout on interrupt) it would break the class.

I´d trade dark deal for any of the other classes main resources mechanics: Battleroar (+ free whip spammable), siphoning attacks, rune focus, netch.
All are better infight than dark deal currently because they have 0 risk associated to them.

I don´t even get what you´re worried about. What sorc has beaten you bc of dark deal as of late?
I think from actually playing sorc in cyro and dueling with them (on non pet builds) - this change might make them a little more competetive again in actual fights (not when running away).

If you´re worried about stamsorc - reduced healing on dark deal is something they could do relatively safely without harming the skill imo.


Edit: Alternatively a suggestion that i and other have brought up: Make darkdeal return resources over a short period of time between 4 to 8 seconds - preventing the ability from being spammed excessively while uninterruptable.

BohnT

If these changes will hit live we can all respec to sorc and enjoy our never ending battles with harness+ dark deal+ BoL.

If people can use DD as much as they want, sorc will completely dominate.

For comparison: siphoning attacks can restore a maximum of 8k stamina or magicka + some healing over time

3 casts of DD give you 12k magicka/ stamina + the same amount of healing

DD was the only class sustain ability that wasn't significantly nerfed with morrowind.
And the only reason was people saying that it's balanced due to it being 100% counterable with interrupts. With these changes there is no counterplay for 7 long seconds and another 10 when used with immovabillity potions. 2 casts of DD give you more resources than any other class can get in such a small period of time.
And surviving for 1 sec isn't a problem for any of the sorc specs.

Change it that one cast of the ability removes the immunity, if you are bad you get your medal but for every additional cast you should outplay your enemies

Vapirko

Stam sorcs could really use this or at least some form of it, with shields it’s for sure too strong. Plus our limited amount of magicka ensures maybe 3 casts max, perhaps 4.

pieratsos

Why cant we just remove pets from sorcs and put them in a different summoning skill line. No one likes them anw.

Ragnaroek93

Derra wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

So they are removing the only kind of counterplay which you have against a class which is already insanely strong in duels (petsorc)...

Realisticly dueling with specific dueling builds should not play any role in balancing efforts.

Petsorc is utter trash even below garbage tier for any pvp that does involve more than 2 players and/or does not revolve around flat terrain around a flag.

Literally the only thing someone has to do to never die to a petsorc open world is run away in a straigt line past some kind of environmental obstacle. Done.

If it´s problematic in duels - so what? It´s banned in any competetive format i´ve ever heared of since pets got buffed and it´s not like anyone forces you to duel petsorcs.
They´re irrelevant to any argument made about balance bc there is no encounter where they´re problematic.

By that logic the game would be perfectly balanced because every class can play a draw against every class by using line of sight. I strongly disagree that petsorc is trash if more than 2 players are involved, the only reason why petsorc struggles open world is because the pets tend to stuck often, otherwise the build would be strong there as well.

There is a difference between not balancing around duels (I believe that giving every class the chance to beat every class is a better approach for good balance than these 1vX nonsense arguments but whatever) and ignore duels at all. Enabling builds which can't be beaten (and exactly this will happen to petsorc if you can't bash them anymore) is just unnecessary and is bad game design.

Tasear

When sorc tanks become popular then I believe it's over powered.