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Dark Deal and update 17
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
I can't agree with that, on magsorc it always felt much easier to duel with than other classes ( except for warden) as i can much easier prevent my enemy from killing me until i can fightback again.
And imo a sorc forcing a Draw is winning the duel as he can escape in situations where he's outnumbered while most other classes die due to lack of mobility.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My main point in the interrupt-changes on pts. Is that people wont have to make rounded builds because one mechanic (dark deal mainly) looses its counters.
So stamsorc builds on live atm who speccs solely for dmg and relies on DD has a counter, bash, if you know how to counter it you will effectively punish them hard...for having a weakness to their build. On pts that weakness is changed into one of their strengths. Balanced?
Where are the counters to heavyattacks for stam, rune focus, betty netch, battleroar, siphoning attacks?
Just a hint: A nb spamming lightattacks with siphoning heals for more hps than a sorc spamming dark deal. Just some food for thought.
If at all dark deal should be changed to return hp + resources over 4s to prevent abusive spamming (not that this is imo problematic as it does not kill you - but ppl are gonna whine i guess).
4s would mean 1.8k potential regen.
Resource regain over 10-13 seconds would be fine. It would be unfair if all other classes have low regen consistent regen while one class can get much better burst regen with the same amount of counterplay
So I have to use 30% of my off resource for a 1.4s channel, a tiny 4k heal (that get's even smaller with all the defile) and 13 seconds to return 4.8k stamina, which I probably don't get if a need another heal from that?
All while leaching strikes cannot be interrupted, has no channel time, costs 900 stam (with MA even less), heals you reliably with every light/ heavy attack for 700 (+/-, depends on CP and de/buffs as well) hp, gives you 106 stam on top of it plus a hugh chunk (4270) if it runs out (what it can do because you don't have to recast it for a heal).
See? One has to sacrifice valuable time, the other just can keep attacking.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on January 26, 2018 12:03PM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
On stamsorc it was scary how powerful it was. I played some builds with 0 sustain full damage and had no fight where i ran out of resources at any given moment.
It felt like playing stamsorc when they got overbuffed with procs and then go out to fight really, really bad players.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
On stamsorc it was scary how powerful it was. I played some builds with 0 sustain full damage and had no fight where i ran out of resources at any given moment.
It felt like playing stamsorc when they got overbuffed with procs and then go out to fight really, really bad players.
To be fair, every stam class was able to play without any regen in that meta, mainly because how insane heavy armor and Redguard was.
In the current state I think a buff to sorc is justified but we need to see how this will actually play out.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »How many seconds do you need to kill someone in front of you that doesn't fight back and does nothing but using a 4k heal every 1.4 seconds?
Thankfully vigor, rally, crit surge+ hurricane give you healing even while doing other things
That's a lot of healing skills you have to slot though.
I've got mixed feelings about Dark Conversion on stam (bow) sorc (having tested it on PTS). While the sustain portion is awesome and lets me pretty much spam BoL, the heal part is kinda lackluster at only 4k/cast.
I was looking for a Rally substitute (with the caveat of it having a cast time, but providing sustain), didn't really find one
Dunno if that says more about Rally being crazy strong, or Dark Conversion being weak'ish in comparison.
Well no problem with a 3rd bar for no opportunity cost
Rally is the stamina equivalent of healing ward, a class that has nothing like it to offer has to rely on it.
Overload bar... I don't know if it's just me, but sorc feels extremely clunky with it. Especially stam sorc, when you can't slot any burst shields/heals on that bar like magicka sorcs.
On a bow build it means you can't slot Flawless Dawnbreaker for the necessary damage on main bar or can't slot Ballista on off bar. It's a mess
Luckily bow sorc still works very well, but a proper heal would really finalize that build.
Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
On stamsorc it was scary how powerful it was. I played some builds with 0 sustain full damage and had no fight where i ran out of resources at any given moment.
It felt like playing stamsorc when they got overbuffed with procs and then go out to fight really, really bad players.
Tbh, you can play any build with 0 sustain next patch - just get Tactician CP & start heavy attacking Off Balanced targets for double resource return. 4k+ stamina for each S&B heavy weave for instance.Edited by DDuke on January 26, 2018 12:13PM3 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
On stamsorc it was scary how powerful it was. I played some builds with 0 sustain full damage and had no fight where i ran out of resources at any given moment.
It felt like playing stamsorc when they got overbuffed with procs and then go out to fight really, really bad players.
To be fair, every stam class was able to play without any regen in that meta, mainly because how insane heavy armor and Redguard was.
In the current state I think a buff to sorc is justified but we need to see how this will actually play out.
Yeah but it felt like i could play my old builds against the new meta with no problems. It was like bringing an assault rifle to a medival fight0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »How many seconds do you need to kill someone in front of you that doesn't fight back and does nothing but using a 4k heal every 1.4 seconds?
Thankfully vigor, rally, crit surge+ hurricane give you healing even while doing other things
That's a lot of healing skills you have to slot though.
I've got mixed feelings about Dark Conversion on stam (bow) sorc (having tested it on PTS). While the sustain portion is awesome and lets me pretty much spam BoL, the heal part is kinda lackluster at only 4k/cast.
I was looking for a Rally substitute (with the caveat of it having a cast time, but providing sustain), didn't really find one
Dunno if that says more about Rally being crazy strong, or Dark Conversion being weak'ish in comparison.
Well no problem with a 3rd bar for no opportunity cost
Rally is the stamina equivalent of healing ward, a class that has nothing like it to offer has to rely on it.
Overload bar... I don't know if it's just me, but sorc feels extremely clunky with it. Especially stam sorc, when you can't slot any burst shields/heals on that bar like magicka sorcs.
On a bow build it means you can't slot Flawless Dawnbreaker for the necessary damage on main bar or can't slot Ballista on off bar. It's a mess
Luckily bow sorc still works very well, but a proper heal would really finalize that build.
Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
On stamsorc it was scary how powerful it was. I played some builds with 0 sustain full damage and had no fight where i ran out of resources at any given moment.
It felt like playing stamsorc when they got overbuffed with procs and then go out to fight really, really bad players.
Tbh, you can play any build with 0 sustain next patch - just get Tactician CP & start heavy attacking Off Balanced targets for double resource return. 4k+ stamina for each S&B heavy weave for instance.
Once i got used to it the 3rd bar i started to realise how disgustingly strong a 3rd bar when used right.
Yeah the off balance changes are awful for the balance but i know that they won't revert them as they simply lack insight on the game0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
I can't agree with that, on magsorc it always felt much easier to duel with than other classes ( except for warden) as i can much easier prevent my enemy from killing me until i can fightback again.
And imo a sorc forcing a Draw is winning the duel as he can escape in situations where he's outnumbered while most other classes die due to lack of mobility.
I don´t know any good player who thinks magsorc (without pets) is in a good spot in 1v1 encounters that have the goal of actually killing a competent opponent at the moment.
Honestly none.Edited by Derra on January 26, 2018 1:09PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My main point in the interrupt-changes on pts. Is that people wont have to make rounded builds because one mechanic (dark deal mainly) looses its counters.
So stamsorc builds on live atm who speccs solely for dmg and relies on DD has a counter, bash, if you know how to counter it you will effectively punish them hard...for having a weakness to their build. On pts that weakness is changed into one of their strengths. Balanced?
Where are the counters to heavyattacks for stam, rune focus, betty netch, battleroar, siphoning attacks?
Just a hint: A nb spamming lightattacks with siphoning heals for more hps than a sorc spamming dark deal. Just some food for thought.
If at all dark deal should be changed to return hp + resources over 4s to prevent abusive spamming (not that this is imo problematic as it does not kill you - but ppl are gonna whine i guess).
4s would mean 1.8k potential regen.
Resource regain over 10-13 seconds would be fine. It would be unfair if all other classes have low regen consistent regen while one class can get much better burst regen with the same amount of counterplay
Sorry i feel you´re totally disconnected from the topic.
You can´t just compare the regen but also have to compare the secondary effects of the mentioned abilities.
NB gets rediculous healing on top.
Warden gets major sorc + effect removal + heal for no cost.
Templar gets major resi buffs.
DK does not need an ability.
It is still a drawback to having a 1.2s cast compared to an instant ability. If the cooldown was 8s+ i would flatout deslot the skill bc it would become a waste of barspace.
Honestly if you do really think sorcs are that overpowered and will be even moreso with the changes - why do you still play NB?
Also why do you feel sorc is in dire need of discussion when the heavyattack + offbalance changes will give stamina massive advantages compared to magica?
Probably bc you benefit from those more. But who am i to judge. <Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes i dueled as a sorc (stam and mag) and against sorcs (stam and mag) on PTS, lost and won due to lag but the tendency was that when i removed DD from my bars i felt how much of a buff the new changes are
I can only speak for magsorc and i have to say - it feels like a buff in duels.
But its not that the class does not need sth at the moment. Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
I can't agree with that, on magsorc it always felt much easier to duel with than other classes ( except for warden) as i can much easier prevent my enemy from killing me until i can fightback again.
And imo a sorc forcing a Draw is winning the duel as he can escape in situations where he's outnumbered while most other classes die due to lack of mobility.
I don´t know any good player who thinks magsorc (without pets) is in a good spot in 1v1 encounters that have the goal of actually killing a competent opponent at the moment.
Honestly none.
Yeah, I feel a bit sorry for them tbh, they've tough time killing people and they slowly but surely melt under pressure.
Next patch with 2x Power Lashes for each Fossilize rather than one... I really wouldn't want to fight a mDK as one.1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magsorc without pets is in a terrible spot.
I do agree there. Theres very little variation in the sorc builds and has been for a long time. Sorcs are good at killing noobs, but then again so are most classes (that are played well)
Magsorc needs some boosting, but personally I do not think these uninterruptable cast time skills (DD) is a good way to do it.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭My main point in the interrupt-changes on pts. Is that people wont have to make rounded builds because one mechanic (dark deal mainly) looses its counters.
So stamsorc builds on live atm who speccs solely for dmg and relies on DD has a counter, bash, if you know how to counter it you will effectively punish them hard...for having a weakness to their build. On pts that weakness is changed into one of their strengths. Balanced?
Where are the counters to heavyattacks for stam, rune focus, betty netch, battleroar, siphoning attacks?
Just a hint: A nb spamming lightattacks with siphoning heals for more hps than a sorc spamming dark deal. Just some food for thought.
If at all dark deal should be changed to return hp + resources over 4s to prevent abusive spamming (not that this is imo problematic as it does not kill you - but ppl are gonna whine i guess).
4s would mean 1.8k potential regen.
Resource regain over 10-13 seconds would be fine. It would be unfair if all other classes have low regen consistent regen while one class can get much better burst regen with the same amount of counterplay
Sorry i feel you´re totally disconnected from the topic.
You can´t just compare the regen but also have to compare the secondary effects of the mentioned abilities.
NB gets rediculous healing on top.
Warden gets major sorc + effect removal + heal for no cost.
Templar gets major resi buffs.
DK does not need an ability.
It is still a drawback to having a 1.2s cast compared to an instant ability. If the cooldown was 8s+ i would flatout deslot the skill bc it would become a waste of barspace.
Honestly if you do really think sorcs are that overpowered and will be even moreso with the changes - why do you still play NB?
Also why do you feel sorc is in dire need of discussion when the heavyattack + offbalance changes will give stamina massive advantages compared to magica?
Probably bc you benefit from those more. But who am i to judge.
BohnT has serious issues to understand sorc mechanics.
He refuse to understand passive regen like dk one, or semi passive like nb one is better than dark deal. He also think stam sorc doesn't need his stamina managment mechanic being reliable when every other classes have it.
He also doesn't understand magicka sorc is in a bad spot because magsorc defensives mechanics are all hardcoutered or just underperforming.
I'm speaking about :
-Streak being hardcountered by any gap closer while streak have a 50% cost increase and none on the gap closer + the fact u need 3 streaks to be out of gap closer range.
- Shield being extrememy bad when you are outnumbered because you need to constantly reapply them so you can't go offensive, also shield can be bursted easely compared to block, that's mitigate more damage (you survive coordonated burst because block mitigate damage by a % and not vanish after a flat damage taken).
He also doesn't understand how sustaining on magicka is FAR harder than sustaining on stamina :
- Stam skills are 15% cheaper, but the main stam sustain is HEAVY ATTACKS, with the off balance changes you restore 4k+ stamina when you use heavies + you deal a lot off damage, thanks to the exploiter 10% and 70% from attacking off balance target.
- Magicka can't rely on heavy attacks because the cast time is far too long, and magicka doesn't have reliable access to off balance (expect dk).
I think BohnT is not objective at all concerning balance.
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My main point in the interrupt-changes on pts. Is that people wont have to make rounded builds because one mechanic (dark deal mainly) looses its counters.
So stamsorc builds on live atm who speccs solely for dmg and relies on DD has a counter, bash, if you know how to counter it you will effectively punish them hard...for having a weakness to their build. On pts that weakness is changed into one of their strengths. Balanced?
Where are the counters to heavyattacks for stam, rune focus, betty netch, battleroar, siphoning attacks?
Just a hint: A nb spamming lightattacks with siphoning heals for more hps than a sorc spamming dark deal. Just some food for thought.
If at all dark deal should be changed to return hp + resources over 4s to prevent abusive spamming (not that this is imo problematic as it does not kill you - but ppl are gonna whine i guess).
4s would mean 1.8k potential regen.
Resource regain over 10-13 seconds would be fine. It would be unfair if all other classes have low regen consistent regen while one class can get much better burst regen with the same amount of counterplay
Sorry i feel you´re totally disconnected from the topic.
You can´t just compare the regen but also have to compare the secondary effects of the mentioned abilities.
NB gets rediculous healing on top.
Warden gets major sorc + effect removal + heal for no cost.
Templar gets major resi buffs.
DK does not need an ability.
It is still a drawback to having a 1.2s cast compared to an instant ability. If the cooldown was 8s+ i would flatout deslot the skill bc it would become a waste of barspace.
Honestly if you do really think sorcs are that overpowered and will be even moreso with the changes - why do you still play NB?
Also why do you feel sorc is in dire need of discussion when the heavyattack + offbalance changes will give stamina massive advantages compared to magica?
Probably bc you benefit from those more. But who am i to judge.
I have to excuse myself for that solution i posted above i wrote it while i was changing the train and didn't use enough time to make a good compromise.
Some of those things are just wrong, yes siphoning strikes are great but they loose effectiveness when coupled with LOS.
Templar sustain locks you onto a tiny AoE which either removes LoS capabilities or you have to give up the regen completely.
DKs have to waste their ult on cooldown to get the maximum amount while being the class with the worst ulti regen and helping hands is a crippled version of what it once was.
And warden there is no discussion that this class is problematic balance wise
I'd take the new version of DD over the methods of DK and Templar in a blink of an eye and if i had the same mobility as sorc i would use the live version aswell.
I don't play my nb often as i think they are unbalanced, i used my stamnb for 2 days to check why Killers Blade seemed to be undodgeable but other than that i refuse to play a class which overperforms unless i want to check if this assumption is right.
I play either my magplar, stamplar or magdk atm and sometimes i log to my sorc to get rid of the frustration of getting zerged down everytime i go to cyro.
You should play stamplar or stamdk for a week it's pretty fun but afterwards i think you'd understand why i think sorc doesn't need the buff to DD.
I have a bigger picture in mind when I'm posting about balance, i want the classes to be different but balanced and that's not what I'm seeing atm.
With Bugfixes and some changes to the classes there could be balance but sadly ZOS doesn't want to change everything in one patch so they have to start somewhere. I don't want sorcs to be nerfed by a lot just small adjustments to bring them more in line with the other classes, same goes for stamnb which would be fine with CC removal of incap, wardens would needs more than one change, buffs to stamplar, stamdk and Stamsorc as they are underperforming however only stamdk is in need of true buffs, stamsorc is good but small buffs would put them to a magnb balance level.
(The changes to DD will make them too strong imo, a class spammable would be decent i guess+ it adds class identity)
But the balance shouldn't end there, things like cost poisons, shieldbreaker & shieldstacking, oblivion damage, defiles, siphoner cp etc. need to be either removed or completely reworked. When all these things happen we could have a somewhat balanced game, yes there would be things which still might be too strong or too weak but we would have a baseline of balance. And from this baseline the game could be made more balanced with every further patch.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭xiZeroPointix wrote: »
Sorcs have to have dark deal
misses major expedition from Boundless Storm
otherwise it's interesting to have a comparison of that. No debuffs, no spam, telegraphed burst. Seems rather "balanced"Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on January 26, 2018 2:10PM3 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My main point in the interrupt-changes on pts. Is that people wont have to make rounded builds because one mechanic (dark deal mainly) looses its counters.
So stamsorc builds on live atm who speccs solely for dmg and relies on DD has a counter, bash, if you know how to counter it you will effectively punish them hard...for having a weakness to their build. On pts that weakness is changed into one of their strengths. Balanced?
Where are the counters to heavyattacks for stam, rune focus, betty netch, battleroar, siphoning attacks?
Just a hint: A nb spamming lightattacks with siphoning heals for more hps than a sorc spamming dark deal. Just some food for thought.
If at all dark deal should be changed to return hp + resources over 4s to prevent abusive spamming (not that this is imo problematic as it does not kill you - but ppl are gonna whine i guess).
4s would mean 1.8k potential regen.
Resource regain over 10-13 seconds would be fine. It would be unfair if all other classes have low regen consistent regen while one class can get much better burst regen with the same amount of counterplay
Sorry i feel you´re totally disconnected from the topic.
You can´t just compare the regen but also have to compare the secondary effects of the mentioned abilities.
NB gets rediculous healing on top.
Warden gets major sorc + effect removal + heal for no cost.
Templar gets major resi buffs.
DK does not need an ability.
It is still a drawback to having a 1.2s cast compared to an instant ability. If the cooldown was 8s+ i would flatout deslot the skill bc it would become a waste of barspace.
Honestly if you do really think sorcs are that overpowered and will be even moreso with the changes - why do you still play NB?
Also why do you feel sorc is in dire need of discussion when the heavyattack + offbalance changes will give stamina massive advantages compared to magica?
Probably bc you benefit from those more. But who am i to judge.
BohnT has serious issues to understand sorc mechanics.
He refuse to understand passive regen like dk one, or semi passive like nb one is better than dark deal. He also think stam sorc doesn't need his stamina managment mechanic being reliable when every other classes have it.
He also doesn't understand magicka sorc is in a bad spot because magsorc defensives mechanics are all hardcoutered or just underperforming.
I'm speaking about :
-Streak being hardcountered by any gap closer while streak have a 50% cost increase and none on the gap closer + the fact u need 3 streaks to be out of gap closer range.
- Shield being extrememy bad when you are outnumbered because you need to constantly reapply them so you can't go offensive, also shield can be bursted easely compared to block, that's mitigate more damage (you survive coordonated burst because block mitigate damage by a % and not vanish after a flat damage taken).
He also doesn't understand how sustaining on magicka is FAR harder than sustaining on stamina :
- Stam skills are 15% cheaper, but the main stam sustain is HEAVY ATTACKS, with the off balance changes you restore 4k+ stamina when you use heavies + you deal a lot off damage, thanks to the exploiter 10% and 70% from attacking off balance target.
- Magicka can't rely on heavy attacks because the cast time is far too long, and magicka doesn't have reliable access to off balance (expect dk).
I think BohnT is not objective at all concerning balance.
Try to sustain a Stamplar while being able to kill people.
I sustain just fine on all my magchars maybe your build is bad?
Try to permablock with the next patch, say hello to -1.6k stamina per second when playing a full block build, block was op but it's not like there are no things which ignore block.
I don't see how you fail to get away with streak? 1st with mines you can get at least 8m between you and your enemy before your first streak, with a stun you buy yourself another streak before he can gapclose to you.
Also if you are out of his gapcloser range at one moment he will never catch you like never unless you are stupid enough to wait for him to run to you.
Also with DD you can do the following: streak 3x, DD 2x 3x Streak.... but psssh don't tell others it's only used by "bad" sorcs like Fasold to use streak infinitely
Atleast you won't die when your shield gets bursted unlike a class without shields that dies when he gets bursted. And your shield can't be reduced by 70% by one trolltank which can be done to anyone utilising heals and while being vulnerable to status effects.
You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
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Try to sustain a Stamplar while being able to kill people.
I sustain just fine on all my magchars maybe your build is bad?
Why sustaining a templar is harder than sustaining a magicka sorc ?
I said sustain is better on stamina, I never said it was impossible to sustain in magicka. You invest far more in gear to sustain magicka build than stamina.Try to permablock with the next patch, say hello to -1.6k stamina per second when playing a full block build, block was op but it's not like there are no things which ignore block.
You lost your credibility here. The block system was nerfed on the cost block glyph side, and buffed in counter part. The thing is : NOT A SINGLE GOOD PLAYER use block glyph in PvP. Blocking in PvP receive a BUFF next patch. From a player hwo play everything,you should know that.I don't see how you fail to get away with streak? 1st with mines you can get at least 8m between you and your enemy before your first streak, with a stun you buy yourself another streak before he can gapclose to you.
Also if you are out of his gapcloser range at one moment he will never catch you like never unless you are stupid enough to wait for him to run to you.
Here it's stupid too : No one run mines on his magicka sorc actually, you need to go overload, and so lost 1s your ennemy can use to gap close you. Even if you use mines, you can still gap close when you are immobile. so just press the button again. If you stun your ennemy, he break in 0.5s and can still gap close you.Also with DD you can do the following: streak 3x, DD 2x 3x Streak.... but psssh don't tell others it's only used by "bad" sorcs like Fasold to use streak infinitely
Dark deal use magicka to gain stamina, you will not streak with it. You seems to forget people take their horses when they want to chase sorc.Atleast you won't die when your shield gets bursted unlike a class without shields that dies when he gets bursted. And your shield can't be reduced by 70% by one trolltank which can be done to anyone utilising heals and while being vulnerable to status effects.
You don't understand how this game work : if you take 2 light attack + 2 dizzing swing + 2 dawnbreaker, the shield will be eaten and a light armor sorc is being to be severly touched behind. If you block heal, then you are not stunned, you are HoT and you mitigate so much the damage, you will easely survive.
If you don't understand blocking is better, then l2p. Should I use number ?You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play every classes, my main is just sorc. You don't know how classes work, and you proove it by posting stupids things here.
0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of those things are just wrong, yes siphoning strikes are great but they loose effectiveness when coupled with LOS.
Templar sustain locks you onto a tiny AoE which either removes LoS capabilities or you have to give up the regen completely.
DKs have to waste their ult on cooldown to get the maximum amount while being the class with the worst ulti regen and helping hands is a crippled version of what it once was.
And warden there is no discussion that this class is problematic balance wise
Honestly could you stop making irrelevant references to line of sight situations?
Nothing about darkdeal changes when using line of sight - hence stop comparing other sustain methods with line of sight situation. The buff straightup affects only in combat use.
Compare it to using the other abilities in combat.You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play magsorc, magblade, stamsorc, stamblade.
Just judging from your comments on sorc you either play the class not enough, are too bad at it OR you´re a better sorc than all other sorcs i know - because none of those agree with your view of the class.Edited by Derra on January 26, 2018 2:46PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Try to sustain a Stamplar while being able to kill people.
I sustain just fine on all my magchars maybe your build is bad?
Why sustaining a templar is harder than sustaining a magicka sorc ?
I said sustain is better on stamina, I never said it was impossible to sustain in magicka. You invest far more in gear to sustain magicka build than stamina.Try to permablock with the next patch, say hello to -1.6k stamina per second when playing a full block build, block was op but it's not like there are no things which ignore block.
You lost your credibility here. The block system was nerfed on the cost block glyph side, and buffed in counter part. The thing is : NOT A SINGLE GOOD PLAYER use block glyph in PvP. Blocking in PvP receive a BUFF next patch. From a player hwo play everything,you should know that.I don't see how you fail to get away with streak? 1st with mines you can get at least 8m between you and your enemy before your first streak, with a stun you buy yourself another streak before he can gapclose to you.
Also if you are out of his gapcloser range at one moment he will never catch you like never unless you are stupid enough to wait for him to run to you.
Here it's stupid too : No one run mines on his magicka sorc actually, you need to go overload, and so lost 1s your ennemy can use to gap close you. Even if you use mines, you can still gap close when you are immobile. so just press the button again. If you stun your ennemy, he break in 0.5s and can still gap close you.Also with DD you can do the following: streak 3x, DD 2x 3x Streak.... but psssh don't tell others it's only used by "bad" sorcs like Fasold to use streak infinitely
Dark deal use magicka to gain stamina, you will not streak with it. You seems to forget people take their horses when they want to chase sorc.Atleast you won't die when your shield gets bursted unlike a class without shields that dies when he gets bursted. And your shield can't be reduced by 70% by one trolltank which can be done to anyone utilising heals and while being vulnerable to status effects.
You don't understand how this game work : if you take 2 light attack + 2 dizzing swing + 2 dawnbreaker, the shield will be eaten and a light armor sorc is being to be severly touched behind. If you block heal, then you are not stunned, you are HoT and you mitigate so much the damage, you will easely survive.
If you don't understand blocking is better, then l2p. Should I use number ?You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play every classes, my main is just sorc. You don't know how classes work, and you proove it by posting stupids things here.
Are you really this stupid?
Blocking on a build that isn't specced into block cost reduction will eat more than 5k stam per second.
And block cost glyphs are played by stamdks as they have no better defence than blocking.
nO sOrC iS rUnNiNg MiNeS. Are you kidding me? Malcom uses mines, Metzger uses Mines, Fasold uses MInes, Ralyc uses Mines and not using overload is so stupid, you get a free bar while having access to 2 ults+ overload.
You can't gapclose while rooted except for Ambush and Chains, if you ever played a stamclass you'd knew that.
Yeah i used the wrong Name for Dark Conversion but that doesn't Change anything
You haven't used your other classes then in cyro because your sorc is the only one of your chars in my kill Counter and someone who is this bad on his main will die on all other classes.Some of those things are just wrong, yes siphoning strikes are great but they loose effectiveness when coupled with LOS.
Templar sustain locks you onto a tiny AoE which either removes LoS capabilities or you have to give up the regen completely.
DKs have to waste their ult on cooldown to get the maximum amount while being the class with the worst ulti regen and helping hands is a crippled version of what it once was.
And warden there is no discussion that this class is problematic balance wise
Honestly could you stop making irrelevant references to line of sight situations?
Nothing about darkdeal changes when using line of sight - hence stop comparing other sustain methods with line of sight situation. The buff straightup affects only in combat use.
Compare it to using the other abilities in combat.You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play magsorc, magblade, stamsorc, stamblade.
Just judging from your comments on sorc you either play the class not enough, are too bad at it OR you´re a better sorc than all other sorcs i know - because none of those agree with your view of the class.
LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
Los is irrelevant to the dark deal discussion as nothing changes regarding darkdeal when using line of sight. What is so hard to understand about this fact.
Darkdeal changes only for infight situations where you do not los (duel per gentlemans agreement) or can not los - therefor this should be the base for discussing and comparing it to other sustain methods.
I played my stamsorc just 2 days ago. Admittedly i spend less time on the other classes bc i try to get gold campaign rewards on one char - the magsorc i want to get to grand overlord.
Magsorc in open world is an entirely different beast than fighting a good player with it 1v1.Edited by Derra on January 26, 2018 3:25PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
Los is irrelevant to the dark deal discussion as nothing changes regarding darkdeal when using line of sight. What is so hard to understand about this fact.
Darkdeal changes only for infight situations where you do not los or can not los - therefor this should be the base for discussing and comparing it to other sustain methods.
I played my stamsorc just 2 days ago. Admittedly i spend less time on the other classes bc i try to get gold campaign rewards on one char - the magsorc i want to get to grand overlord.
Magsorc in open world is an entirely different beast than fighting a good player with it 1v1.
I don't think it's irrelevant as we have to compare the Overall performance and not just in one optimised Setup.
I take Leeching strikes over DD in a duel atm, after that patch I'm not sure which is better and i guess thats Preference, but in conjunction with LoS i'd take DD over Leeching Strikes any day due to it being equally good in combat while being better in LoS.
This makes DD superior Overall which makes you wonder why one class has a better Option than others with no drawbacks in any playstyle.
But this is just how i view this Situation.
0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Try to sustain a Stamplar while being able to kill people.
I sustain just fine on all my magchars maybe your build is bad?
Why sustaining a templar is harder than sustaining a magicka sorc ?
I said sustain is better on stamina, I never said it was impossible to sustain in magicka. You invest far more in gear to sustain magicka build than stamina.Try to permablock with the next patch, say hello to -1.6k stamina per second when playing a full block build, block was op but it's not like there are no things which ignore block.
You lost your credibility here. The block system was nerfed on the cost block glyph side, and buffed in counter part. The thing is : NOT A SINGLE GOOD PLAYER use block glyph in PvP. Blocking in PvP receive a BUFF next patch. From a player hwo play everything,you should know that.I don't see how you fail to get away with streak? 1st with mines you can get at least 8m between you and your enemy before your first streak, with a stun you buy yourself another streak before he can gapclose to you.
Also if you are out of his gapcloser range at one moment he will never catch you like never unless you are stupid enough to wait for him to run to you.
Here it's stupid too : No one run mines on his magicka sorc actually, you need to go overload, and so lost 1s your ennemy can use to gap close you. Even if you use mines, you can still gap close when you are immobile. so just press the button again. If you stun your ennemy, he break in 0.5s and can still gap close you.Also with DD you can do the following: streak 3x, DD 2x 3x Streak.... but psssh don't tell others it's only used by "bad" sorcs like Fasold to use streak infinitely
Dark deal use magicka to gain stamina, you will not streak with it. You seems to forget people take their horses when they want to chase sorc.Atleast you won't die when your shield gets bursted unlike a class without shields that dies when he gets bursted. And your shield can't be reduced by 70% by one trolltank which can be done to anyone utilising heals and while being vulnerable to status effects.
You don't understand how this game work : if you take 2 light attack + 2 dizzing swing + 2 dawnbreaker, the shield will be eaten and a light armor sorc is being to be severly touched behind. If you block heal, then you are not stunned, you are HoT and you mitigate so much the damage, you will easely survive.
If you don't understand blocking is better, then l2p. Should I use number ?You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play every classes, my main is just sorc. You don't know how classes work, and you proove it by posting stupids things here.
Are you really this stupid?
Blocking on a build that isn't specced into block cost reduction will eat more than 5k stam per second.
And block cost glyphs are played by stamdks as they have no better defence than blocking.
nO sOrC iS rUnNiNg MiNeS. Are you kidding me? Malcom uses mines, Metzger uses Mines, Fasold uses MInes, Ralyc uses Mines and not using overload is so stupid, you get a free bar while having access to 2 ults+ overload.
You can't gapclose while rooted except for Ambush and Chains, if you ever played a stamclass you'd knew that.
Yeah i used the wrong Name for Dark Conversion but that doesn't Change anything
You haven't used your other classes then in cyro because your sorc is the only one of your chars in my kill Counter and someone who is this bad on his main will die on all other classes.Some of those things are just wrong, yes siphoning strikes are great but they loose effectiveness when coupled with LOS.
Templar sustain locks you onto a tiny AoE which either removes LoS capabilities or you have to give up the regen completely.
DKs have to waste their ult on cooldown to get the maximum amount while being the class with the worst ulti regen and helping hands is a crippled version of what it once was.
And warden there is no discussion that this class is problematic balance wise
Honestly could you stop making irrelevant references to line of sight situations?
Nothing about darkdeal changes when using line of sight - hence stop comparing other sustain methods with line of sight situation. The buff straightup affects only in combat use.
Compare it to using the other abilities in combat.You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play magsorc, magblade, stamsorc, stamblade.
Just judging from your comments on sorc you either play the class not enough, are too bad at it OR you´re a better sorc than all other sorcs i know - because none of those agree with your view of the class.
LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
If you need block cost reduction on your dk, then you need to l2p, REALLY, You don't perma block in PvP, you just press quicly the block button when the damage is incoming. And even if you block for a full second, it's still cost less than 3 shield casted.
We was speaking about streak and gap closing these sorc can use mine when they already streakedand are in a safe place, with overload bar. You don't use mines to escape it's cost too much when u need mana to streak, you use mines when you want to fight people inside. You forget mines have 3s before being effective. When you are in the need to streak, you can't wait 3s your mines arms. What your saying isn't the reallity.
I never said overload was stupid to slot, but overload is stupid to use in front of your ennemy, you need to be safe or agaisnt complete noobs for using it in front of ennemies. Also, having 2 ultimate + overload is an exploit, and it's also not usefull, because you loose too much time for swich bar, entering overload, use your ultimate. You need your ultimate quickly, waiting 1-2s before having it without being able to do anything else is stupid.
Check your kill counter more ofen, and look hwo killed you
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Something a little funny, I can already see quite alot of rerolls to stamsorc on PCEU.
God forbid the class becomes actually good again
I think you can contribute just as much to stamsorcs bein top pve dps currently and the changes to heavyattacks/off balance being a massive buff for playstyles not utilizing 1h shield that are not nightblades.
Whats not so funny is they are currently all out dmg builds that rely on dark deal, I bash 9 out of 10 deal that they atempt now, and they die, but next patch when the counter is removed it will be 1 out of 10 deals that I can bash. Is this rly good for the game? Are stamsorcs rly gonna be alowed in a position where they dont need any other sustain to their build then DD.
Same can be said about stamina heavyattacks vs any player not utilizing 1h + shield.
It´s basically impossible to prevent resource gain from that and they can just heavychannel in your face - which ironically also gets buffed next patch.
I fail to see the difference in that case (unless you play 1h shield with a lot of sturdy). Atleast the stamsorc isn´t dealing dmg to you when they darkdeal.
I recently fought a relatively high dmg heavy armor build that relied on heavy atks for his main sustain, I ended up blocking or dodging most of his heavy atks effectively breaking his sustain, ofc this cost me quite abit of stamina aswell, but I could manage it. Atleast that has a counter. Uninterruptable channels wont next patch, and this promoted more stupid pvp imo. Or shall I say pvp for the stupids.
Now tell me how you do that on a stambuild that is not a NB without sword and board or on a magica build.
NB is in the unique position that it is the only class that can deny heavyattack sustain effectively without being able to block a lot.
Your assessment of the situation is too biased from playing NB in that case.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
Los is irrelevant to the dark deal discussion as nothing changes regarding darkdeal when using line of sight. What is so hard to understand about this fact.
Darkdeal changes only for infight situations where you do not los or can not los - therefor this should be the base for discussing and comparing it to other sustain methods.
I played my stamsorc just 2 days ago. Admittedly i spend less time on the other classes bc i try to get gold campaign rewards on one char - the magsorc i want to get to grand overlord.
Magsorc in open world is an entirely different beast than fighting a good player with it 1v1.
I don't think it's irrelevant as we have to compare the Overall performance and not just in one optimised Setup.
I take Leeching strikes over DD in a duel atm, after that patch I'm not sure which is better and i guess thats Preference, but in conjunction with LoS i'd take DD over Leeching Strikes any day due to it being equally good in combat while being better in LoS.
This makes DD superior Overall which makes you wonder why one class has a better Option than others with no drawbacks in any playstyle.
But this is just how i view this Situation.
Just the bolded part:
So in INFIGHTS you're saying it's just as good to stop attacking and channel in the face of others than to have a instant skill that returns res & heals over time while you can attack to your hearts content?Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on January 26, 2018 3:34PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You don't place mines to streak away you have mines up to kite your enemy mid fight and use them to buy you time when the tides are turning.
Try to sustain a Stamplar while being able to kill people.
I sustain just fine on all my magchars maybe your build is bad?
Why sustaining a templar is harder than sustaining a magicka sorc ?
I said sustain is better on stamina, I never said it was impossible to sustain in magicka. You invest far more in gear to sustain magicka build than stamina.Try to permablock with the next patch, say hello to -1.6k stamina per second when playing a full block build, block was op but it's not like there are no things which ignore block.
You lost your credibility here. The block system was nerfed on the cost block glyph side, and buffed in counter part. The thing is : NOT A SINGLE GOOD PLAYER use block glyph in PvP. Blocking in PvP receive a BUFF next patch. From a player hwo play everything,you should know that.I don't see how you fail to get away with streak? 1st with mines you can get at least 8m between you and your enemy before your first streak, with a stun you buy yourself another streak before he can gapclose to you.
Also if you are out of his gapcloser range at one moment he will never catch you like never unless you are stupid enough to wait for him to run to you.
Here it's stupid too : No one run mines on his magicka sorc actually, you need to go overload, and so lost 1s your ennemy can use to gap close you. Even if you use mines, you can still gap close when you are immobile. so just press the button again. If you stun your ennemy, he break in 0.5s and can still gap close you.Also with DD you can do the following: streak 3x, DD 2x 3x Streak.... but psssh don't tell others it's only used by "bad" sorcs like Fasold to use streak infinitely
Dark deal use magicka to gain stamina, you will not streak with it. You seems to forget people take their horses when they want to chase sorc.Atleast you won't die when your shield gets bursted unlike a class without shields that dies when he gets bursted. And your shield can't be reduced by 70% by one trolltank which can be done to anyone utilising heals and while being vulnerable to status effects.
You don't understand how this game work : if you take 2 light attack + 2 dizzing swing + 2 dawnbreaker, the shield will be eaten and a light armor sorc is being to be severly touched behind. If you block heal, then you are not stunned, you are HoT and you mitigate so much the damage, you will easely survive.
If you don't understand blocking is better, then l2p. Should I use number ?You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play every classes, my main is just sorc. You don't know how classes work, and you proove it by posting stupids things here.
Are you really this stupid?
Blocking on a build that isn't specced into block cost reduction will eat more than 5k stam per second.
And block cost glyphs are played by stamdks as they have no better defence than blocking.
nO sOrC iS rUnNiNg MiNeS. Are you kidding me? Malcom uses mines, Metzger uses Mines, Fasold uses MInes, Ralyc uses Mines and not using overload is so stupid, you get a free bar while having access to 2 ults+ overload.
You can't gapclose while rooted except for Ambush and Chains, if you ever played a stamclass you'd knew that.
Yeah i used the wrong Name for Dark Conversion but that doesn't Change anything
You haven't used your other classes then in cyro because your sorc is the only one of your chars in my kill Counter and someone who is this bad on his main will die on all other classes.Some of those things are just wrong, yes siphoning strikes are great but they loose effectiveness when coupled with LOS.
Templar sustain locks you onto a tiny AoE which either removes LoS capabilities or you have to give up the regen completely.
DKs have to waste their ult on cooldown to get the maximum amount while being the class with the worst ulti regen and helping hands is a crippled version of what it once was.
And warden there is no discussion that this class is problematic balance wise
Honestly could you stop making irrelevant references to line of sight situations?
Nothing about darkdeal changes when using line of sight - hence stop comparing other sustain methods with line of sight situation. The buff straightup affects only in combat use.
Compare it to using the other abilities in combat.You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play magsorc, magblade, stamsorc, stamblade.
Just judging from your comments on sorc you either play the class not enough, are too bad at it OR you´re a better sorc than all other sorcs i know - because none of those agree with your view of the class.
LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
If you need block cost reduction on your dk, then you need to l2p, REALLY, You don't perma block in PvP, you just press quicly the block button when the damage is incoming. And even if you block for a full second, it's still cost less than 3 shield casted.
We was speaking about streak and gap closing these sorc can use mine when they already streakedand are in a safe place, with overload bar. You don't use mines to escape it's cost too much when u need mana to streak, you use mines when you want to fight people inside. You forget mines have 3s before being effective. When you are in the need to streak, you can't wait 3s your mines arms. What your saying isn't the reallity.
I never said overload was stupid to slot, but overload is stupid to use in front of your ennemy, you need to be safe or agaisnt complete noobs for using it in front of ennemies. Also, having 2 ultimate + overload is an exploit, and it's also not usefull, because you loose too much time for swich bar, entering overload, use your ultimate. You need your ultimate quickly, waiting 1-2s before having it without being able to do anything else is stupid.
Check your kill counter more ofen, and look hwo killed you
you say Block negates all damage and then you say you only block when you have incoming damage, just a small hint there is always damage incoming in PvP when you can't streak away
maybe your opinion on block Comes from the fact that you are a sorc? As sorcs put everything on one delayed burst with almost no pressure inbetween.
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
Los is irrelevant to the dark deal discussion as nothing changes regarding darkdeal when using line of sight. What is so hard to understand about this fact.
Darkdeal changes only for infight situations where you do not los or can not los - therefor this should be the base for discussing and comparing it to other sustain methods.
I played my stamsorc just 2 days ago. Admittedly i spend less time on the other classes bc i try to get gold campaign rewards on one char - the magsorc i want to get to grand overlord.
Magsorc in open world is an entirely different beast than fighting a good player with it 1v1.
I don't think it's irrelevant as we have to compare the Overall performance and not just in one optimised Setup.
I take Leeching strikes over DD in a duel atm, after that patch I'm not sure which is better and i guess thats Preference, but in conjunction with LoS i'd take DD over Leeching Strikes any day due to it being equally good in combat while being better in LoS.
This makes DD superior Overall which makes you wonder why one class has a better Option than others with no drawbacks in any playstyle.
But this is just how i view this Situation.
Just the bolded part:
So in INFIGHTS you're saying it's just as good to stop attacking and channel in the face of others than to have a instant skill that returns res & heals over time while you can attack to your hearts content?
as a resource return mechanic yes absolutely, if i Need the sustain now i get the sustain now and not over 20 seconds. if i'm out/low of/on resources due to high pressure i can't wait 20 seconds to get my resources back while i can get 5k instantly with DD when i Need it.
And no i'm not talking about being in a Situation where my enemy will kill me before my DD Ends if i'm this weak then Leeching strikes won't save me either.
0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
Los is irrelevant to the dark deal discussion as nothing changes regarding darkdeal when using line of sight. What is so hard to understand about this fact.
Darkdeal changes only for infight situations where you do not los or can not los - therefor this should be the base for discussing and comparing it to other sustain methods.
I played my stamsorc just 2 days ago. Admittedly i spend less time on the other classes bc i try to get gold campaign rewards on one char - the magsorc i want to get to grand overlord.
Magsorc in open world is an entirely different beast than fighting a good player with it 1v1.
I don't think it's irrelevant as we have to compare the Overall performance and not just in one optimised Setup.
I take Leeching strikes over DD in a duel atm, after that patch I'm not sure which is better and i guess thats Preference, but in conjunction with LoS i'd take DD over Leeching Strikes any day due to it being equally good in combat while being better in LoS.
This makes DD superior Overall which makes you wonder why one class has a better Option than others with no drawbacks in any playstyle.
But this is just how i view this Situation.
I can´t comment on dark deal in that case - i don´t use it enough on my stamsorc.
For conversion vs siphoning attacks: siphoning attacks still outperforms dark deal considerably in an infight situation where it consistently heals.
You´ll get ~30k healing out of it over the 20s duration. That´s a lot of darkdealing to make up for that.
You have to also think about darkdeal in a way that it further reduces the sorcs offensive time - that´s already low due to shields.
Sorc does not have dots compared to other classes to make up for that lack in offensive time.
I can maybe see it being annoying/problematic on stamsorc. On magsorc i honestly can´t. Also due to the fact that i currently can´t interrupt darkdealing magsorcs on my NB or sorc and that is not an issue.Edited by Derra on January 26, 2018 3:48PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Eh, Dark Deal is kinda Sorc's wheelhouse. It's not like you can blockcast it or anything so even with this change Sorc's are still going to need to create distance / LOS before attempting to Dark Deal which is exactly what happens on Live. Just because there's a period where this wont be interruptable doesn't mean a Sorc is going to be able to facetank damage while using this ability.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
xiZeroPointix✭✭✭LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
Los is irrelevant to the dark deal discussion as nothing changes regarding darkdeal when using line of sight. What is so hard to understand about this fact.
Darkdeal changes only for infight situations where you do not los or can not los - therefor this should be the base for discussing and comparing it to other sustain methods.
I played my stamsorc just 2 days ago. Admittedly i spend less time on the other classes bc i try to get gold campaign rewards on one char - the magsorc i want to get to grand overlord.
Magsorc in open world is an entirely different beast than fighting a good player with it 1v1.
I don't think it's irrelevant as we have to compare the Overall performance and not just in one optimised Setup.
I take Leeching strikes over DD in a duel atm, after that patch I'm not sure which is better and i guess thats Preference, but in conjunction with LoS i'd take DD over Leeching Strikes any day due to it being equally good in combat while being better in LoS.
This makes DD superior Overall which makes you wonder why one class has a better Option than others with no drawbacks in any playstyle.
But this is just how i view this Situation.
I can´t comment on dark deal in that case - i don´t use it enough on my stamsorc.
For conversion vs siphoning attacks: siphoning attacks still outperforms dark deal considerably in an infight situation where it consistently heals.
You´ll get ~30k healing out of it over the 20s duration. That´s a lot of darkdealing to make up for that.
You have to also think about darkdeal in a way that it further reduces the sorcs offensive time - that´s already low due to shields.
Sorc does not have dots compared to other classes to make up for that lack in offensive time.
I can maybe see it being annoying/problematic on stamsorc. On magsorc i honestly can´t. Also due to the fact that i currently can´t interrupt darkdealing magsorcs on my NB or sorc and that is not an issue.
According to eso head the dark conversion tooltip states 8k health return at a 3200 stam cost. Its a 1 sec cast time then another 1 sec to recieve the health. Im not sure if percent amps are figured in or not i am at work and cant check with a return of around 2200-2500 magicka. Considering most magsorcs have around 9 to 10k stam this is roughly around 3 conversions and you are empty giving you an effective 24k health return and an additional 6 to 7 seconds where you would be out of combat and vulnerable to attack. You are then out of stam so no blocking or roll dodging incoming attacks. So dd or dc is not advisable in an in fight situation. So LL would be a better health recovery option as its a dot and you can still shield or go offensive while passively gaining health0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
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You don't place mines to streak away you have mines up to kite your enemy mid fight and use them to buy you time when the tides are turning.
Try to sustain a Stamplar while being able to kill people.
I sustain just fine on all my magchars maybe your build is bad?
Why sustaining a templar is harder than sustaining a magicka sorc ?
I said sustain is better on stamina, I never said it was impossible to sustain in magicka. You invest far more in gear to sustain magicka build than stamina.Try to permablock with the next patch, say hello to -1.6k stamina per second when playing a full block build, block was op but it's not like there are no things which ignore block.
You lost your credibility here. The block system was nerfed on the cost block glyph side, and buffed in counter part. The thing is : NOT A SINGLE GOOD PLAYER use block glyph in PvP. Blocking in PvP receive a BUFF next patch. From a player hwo play everything,you should know that.I don't see how you fail to get away with streak? 1st with mines you can get at least 8m between you and your enemy before your first streak, with a stun you buy yourself another streak before he can gapclose to you.
Also if you are out of his gapcloser range at one moment he will never catch you like never unless you are stupid enough to wait for him to run to you.
Here it's stupid too : No one run mines on his magicka sorc actually, you need to go overload, and so lost 1s your ennemy can use to gap close you. Even if you use mines, you can still gap close when you are immobile. so just press the button again. If you stun your ennemy, he break in 0.5s and can still gap close you.Also with DD you can do the following: streak 3x, DD 2x 3x Streak.... but psssh don't tell others it's only used by "bad" sorcs like Fasold to use streak infinitely
Dark deal use magicka to gain stamina, you will not streak with it. You seems to forget people take their horses when they want to chase sorc.Atleast you won't die when your shield gets bursted unlike a class without shields that dies when he gets bursted. And your shield can't be reduced by 70% by one trolltank which can be done to anyone utilising heals and while being vulnerable to status effects.
You don't understand how this game work : if you take 2 light attack + 2 dizzing swing + 2 dawnbreaker, the shield will be eaten and a light armor sorc is being to be severly touched behind. If you block heal, then you are not stunned, you are HoT and you mitigate so much the damage, you will easely survive.
If you don't understand blocking is better, then l2p. Should I use number ?You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play every classes, my main is just sorc. You don't know how classes work, and you proove it by posting stupids things here.
Are you really this stupid?
Blocking on a build that isn't specced into block cost reduction will eat more than 5k stam per second.
And block cost glyphs are played by stamdks as they have no better defence than blocking.
nO sOrC iS rUnNiNg MiNeS. Are you kidding me? Malcom uses mines, Metzger uses Mines, Fasold uses MInes, Ralyc uses Mines and not using overload is so stupid, you get a free bar while having access to 2 ults+ overload.
You can't gapclose while rooted except for Ambush and Chains, if you ever played a stamclass you'd knew that.
Yeah i used the wrong Name for Dark Conversion but that doesn't Change anything
You haven't used your other classes then in cyro because your sorc is the only one of your chars in my kill Counter and someone who is this bad on his main will die on all other classes.Some of those things are just wrong, yes siphoning strikes are great but they loose effectiveness when coupled with LOS.
Templar sustain locks you onto a tiny AoE which either removes LoS capabilities or you have to give up the regen completely.
DKs have to waste their ult on cooldown to get the maximum amount while being the class with the worst ulti regen and helping hands is a crippled version of what it once was.
And warden there is no discussion that this class is problematic balance wise
Honestly could you stop making irrelevant references to line of sight situations?
Nothing about darkdeal changes when using line of sight - hence stop comparing other sustain methods with line of sight situation. The buff straightup affects only in combat use.
Compare it to using the other abilities in combat.You are playing nothing else than sorc and complain about people who play every class in this game because the have no insight on how classes work?
I play magsorc, magblade, stamsorc, stamblade.
Just judging from your comments on sorc you either play the class not enough, are too bad at it OR you´re a better sorc than all other sorcs i know - because none of those agree with your view of the class.
LoS isn't irrelevant, it's the number one 1vX tool if you actually say that LoS is irrelevant when saying how usefull a skill is then we can throw all Balance discussion in the trash, a perfect test Scenario doesn't reflect the actual gameplay.
i haven't seen you on your stamsorc for 4 months while i see you with your sorc almost everyday i guess magsorc isn't that bad after all if you still Play it as often as you do
and yes I'm a bad sorc but if i'm able to pull of These Things with no Problems then there's something wrong
If you need block cost reduction on your dk, then you need to l2p, REALLY, You don't perma block in PvP, you just press quicly the block button when the damage is incoming. And even if you block for a full second, it's still cost less than 3 shield casted.
We was speaking about streak and gap closing these sorc can use mine when they already streakedand are in a safe place, with overload bar. You don't use mines to escape it's cost too much when u need mana to streak, you use mines when you want to fight people inside. You forget mines have 3s before being effective. When you are in the need to streak, you can't wait 3s your mines arms. What your saying isn't the reallity.
I never said overload was stupid to slot, but overload is stupid to use in front of your ennemy, you need to be safe or agaisnt complete noobs for using it in front of ennemies. Also, having 2 ultimate + overload is an exploit, and it's also not usefull, because you loose too much time for swich bar, entering overload, use your ultimate. You need your ultimate quickly, waiting 1-2s before having it without being able to do anything else is stupid.
Check your kill counter more ofen, and look hwo killed you
you say Block negates all damage and then you say you only block when you have incoming damage, just a small hint there is always damage incoming in PvP when you can't streak away
maybe your opinion on block Comes from the fact that you are a sorc? As sorcs put everything on one delayed burst with almost no pressure inbetween.
No, my opinion come from my dk, you don't need to permablock, you need to block at the right time. On block build you have HoT and high resistance so you don't need to block EVERYTHING. Blocking is better to resist burst, and non blocking hight resistance + hot is better than shield.
Shield mechanic is weak, the block one is far more effective.0