ESO's overland content is too hard

Fischblut

Part 1: I stand in front of two enemies in the Clockwork City

You've chosen very bad example of mobs Lone thunderbug is not very scary, and teapot spider has only one powerful weapon - it's unbelievable cuteness (until it sometimes enrages and transforms into dancing spider).
Do it with 3 factotums (not all 3 patchers though), with 2 dwemer spheres (especially in melee range so they start their 360 spinning attack) or just 1 werewolf from Glenumbra for example... Or maybe try to stand in front of 1 wamasu or troll

I'm far over the CP cap, but I will never understand why people don't like difficulty of overland content here. I earned my gear and my CPs, and I'm proud to be able to breathe through mobs because it feels right; even more, if mob doesn't die in 2-3 seconds and it's not intentional (sometimes I'm in the mood to play with them), I feel ashamed of myself

If I want challenge, I will join for vet dungeons (but they mostly have this stupid "I have lot of health and hit hard, and will also drain your resources!" challenges which I don't like).
Overland content poses challenges of other kind which are much more thrilling:
- how to contain my anger when I already aggroed whole room and suddenly other cowardly player cloacked through those mobs to thieves trove (I didn't see the trove until all mobs were running to me, and they died too fast before I could even drag them so they could use their AOEs on that trove) That player now sitting on his mount laughing, so I just go kill few other mobs showing I totally didn't care about trove...
- what to do when both me and other player see treasure chest which is guarded by mobs
- how to position troll or dwemer centurion over the treasure chest so other player can stop thinking about trying to do something nasty
- get dawnbreaker ultimate recharged as soon as possible; use all ultigen tools you have
- not use AOEs in some situations to avoid aggroing mobs who follow other player - or mobs will start following you instead while he takes heavy sack around the corner
- who will reach that columbine faster - farmer or me on my super fast mount and on PC which doesn't really like fast mounts
- few people are farming safeboxes, so I try to guess which safebox will respawn faster so I can reach it first
- take heavy sack near world boss without fighting: make sure there are no other players nearby, aggro boss on super fast mount, make him follow you, turn around and take the loot in that free second you have Receive 4 torchbug thorax, but over 9000 of adrenaline!
- try to kill nereid in Vvardenfell as werewolf (werewolves can't use this synergy as well ) - only clever application of Claws of Life can save

Motherball

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

So you enjoy a game without player risk or failure states? You do not want a game, you want an "experience"

So solitaire, golf, majong, crossword puzzles, and wheres waldo are just experiences now. Thank you for the lesson in semantics.

In my opinion, you get back what you put in to any game or experience. It only takes a little imagination to tailor the experience to your liking. ESO allows players to do this more than any other online rpg ive ever played. Maybe players could take some initiative instead of expecting the game to force every experience.

The distinction was relevant to my point. Obviously there is a bit of hyperbole when claiming there is absolutely zero ways to fail in overland, but you really have to try or be highly inpet at playing a game of this type. If someone exclusively wants to take in a story being told to them or "faff about" with housing which is perfectly fine mind you, that persons perspective on the subject is flawed since they are considering how a difficulty spike would effect their comfort zone as opposed how it would or would not benefit the game in general.

Also every game you mentioned has a failure state.

Fair enough, but so does this game. I still die from time to time in the open world on my cp300 if Im not paying attention.

idk

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right".

LOL. Yea, there is good HM content in the game for those of us that are interested in a challenge. Overland is not the place for it.

Yet overland is 95% of the game.

Running the same dungeons over and over again is boring. Vet players should be able to experience story content every now and then too.

@MLGProPlayer

Exactly. Considering it is probably much less than 5% of the game that has cleared all trial HMs (not including vAS HM0 it seems clear that overland is as it should be.

Good point.

Oh, and no one is holding back vet players from experiencing the story content. Nothing at all.

Motherball

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

After reading both sides of the argument and a variety of possible solutions, the one I like best is the suggestion for some kind of player debuff that is only applied by the player themselves and thus adjusts their stats and the amount of damage they take while increasing reward possibilities (higher percentages for higher tiered rewards). Tying it to some kind of story/achievements may also make people more likely to participate and work towards being able to do that mode. Some people still won't be happy with this because its purposefully 'cripples' their character but it seems to be the best compromise between providing more of a challenge for those who want it while incentivizing doing so for the added rewards/achievements without forcing it on those who are satisfied.

Why does their have to be xtra rewards though? Shouldnt the reward be that you get to play the game without falling asleep? Players will then think they need to do the hard mode because all their friends are, and will complain its too hard. I dont think there needs to be any incentive or extra reward beyond the fact that players would have more options.

Without getting into the difficulties of implementing a difficulty slider or toggle in an open level scaled environment without mob tagging lockouts or seperate instances, creating arbitrary difficulty spikes just for the sake of rarely work. Players by nature will always take the path of least resistence for equitable rewards. There needs to be a measurable incentive, otherwise engagement falls flat.

I hear what you are saying about the difficulty for the sake of it, but if the least resistance statement were true the title of the thread would be “more rewards” not “harder game”. It would be extremely shallow of someone to deny fun engaging content simply because there is no reward, in my opinion. Entertainment is the reward.

MLGProPlayer

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right".

LOL. Yea, there is good HM content in the game for those of us that are interested in a challenge. Overland is not the place for it.

Yet overland is 95% of the game.

Running the same dungeons over and over again is boring. Vet players should be able to experience story content every now and then too.

@MLGProPlayer

Exactly. Considering it is probably much less than 5% of the game that has cleared all trial HMs (not including vAS HM0 it seems clear that overland is as it should be.

Good point.

Oh, and no one is holding back vet players from experiencing the story content. Nothing at all.

Vet trials require herculean organization skills. You need to make sure that 12 people can stay on the computer for a few hours as you work through the mechanics of the trial. That's why so few people run them. It's the same reason no one did group content in Craglorn (forming groups takes a lot of effort).

MLGProPlayer

Motherball wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

After reading both sides of the argument and a variety of possible solutions, the one I like best is the suggestion for some kind of player debuff that is only applied by the player themselves and thus adjusts their stats and the amount of damage they take while increasing reward possibilities (higher percentages for higher tiered rewards). Tying it to some kind of story/achievements may also make people more likely to participate and work towards being able to do that mode. Some people still won't be happy with this because its purposefully 'cripples' their character but it seems to be the best compromise between providing more of a challenge for those who want it while incentivizing doing so for the added rewards/achievements without forcing it on those who are satisfied.

Why does their have to be xtra rewards though? Shouldnt the reward be that you get to play the game without falling asleep? Players will then think they need to do the hard mode because all their friends are, and will complain its too hard. I dont think there needs to be any incentive or extra reward beyond the fact that players would have more options.

Without getting into the difficulties of implementing a difficulty slider or toggle in an open level scaled environment without mob tagging lockouts or seperate instances, creating arbitrary difficulty spikes just for the sake of rarely work. Players by nature will always take the path of least resistence for equitable rewards. There needs to be a measurable incentive, otherwise engagement falls flat.

I hear what you are saying, but if that were true the title of the thread would be “more rewards” not “harder game”. It would be extremely shallow of someone to deny fun engaging content simply because there is no reward, in my opinion. Entertainment is the reward.

I agree with this. I don't need greater rewards for my effort. I just want to have fun playing the game.

Jpk0012

Huh? This is the lowest content available - its meant to get even the dimmest of people leveled up. There are nominal rewards for killing trash overland content. Hell, if I had my way it would be faster. They just slow me down from getting where I want to be.

Go stand in front of a world boss and tell us how long you last. I don't care if trash mobs hit you for 1 hp. They do not give rewards.

DieAlteHexe

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

After reading both sides of the argument and a variety of possible solutions, the one I like best is the suggestion for some kind of player debuff that is only applied by the player themselves and thus adjusts their stats and the amount of damage they take while increasing reward possibilities (higher percentages for higher tiered rewards). Tying it to some kind of story/achievements may also make people more likely to participate and work towards being able to do that mode. Some people still won't be happy with this because its purposefully 'cripples' their character but it seems to be the best compromise between providing more of a challenge for those who want it while incentivizing doing so for the added rewards/achievements without forcing it on those who are satisfied.

Why does their have to be xtra rewards though? Shouldnt the reward be that you get to play the game without falling asleep? Players will then think they need to do the hard mode because all their friends are, and will complain its too hard. I dont think there needs to be any incentive or extra reward beyond the fact that players would have more options.

Without getting into the difficulties of implementing a difficulty slider or toggle in an open level scaled environment without mob tagging lockouts or seperate instances, creating arbitrary difficulty spikes just for the sake of rarely work. Players by nature will always take the path of least resistence for equitable rewards. There needs to be a measurable incentive, otherwise engagement falls flat.

I hear what you are saying, but if that were true the title of the thread would be “more rewards” not “harder game”. It would be extremely shallow of someone to deny fun engaging content simply because there is no reward, in my opinion. Entertainment is the reward.

I agree with this. I don't need greater rewards for my effort. I just want to have fun playing the game.

I also agree with this. After falling prey to the "must have the most über BiS stuff" in EQ, I gave that mentality up and just went with: Am I having fun?

So long as I can manage the content I am up against, I don't need to be further rewarded. Although it is a treat to get a nice drop.

Jpk0012

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Whilst waiting for a boss respawn in a public dungeon the other day, someone had obviously parked their lvl 33 toon waiting on the respawn too. I stood there for about 3mins watching a single trash mob enemy hack away at him. The guy's health regen all but negated the npc's damage output. After 3mins the guy had come back from whatever he was doing and carried on as normal. It's kind of farcical tbh.

I would only believe this if it was a 500+ cp toon with relevant gear. And... apparently he was a tank with high health recovery... so it probably takes him 3 minutes to kill trash too

nnargun

When I start a new char I thoroughly clear all the maps of dolmens and public dungeons. And I'm always looking forward to getting into that one public dungeon per map because those are actually fun at low level, whereas I really just wanna get done with the stupid dolmens. Reward is the same though. Always skyshard and achievement.

emilyhyoyeon

It doesn't really make sense that 2 random bugs/weak creatures would be difficult to fight anyway, especially for someone in full armor, whether the armor is light or heavy. Combat gear is made for combat. Anyway IMO there should just be more difficult mobs in overland areas (ex. make more mobs overland trolls but more difficult) but also plenty of weak ones

code65536

exeeter702 wrote: »

You do not want a game, you want an "experience"

Why is that incompatible?

Doctordarkspawn

exeeter702 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

.....

exeeter702 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

The fact that the overland content is this easy just makes noobs stay noobs because they think they are doing well since they are fine completing all the quests and tiny dungeons etc. The amount of people who never look up for build is rather scary tbh because sometimes you need people who have max CP and still cant play the game properly (we had a guy join trial using inner fire as spammable... he was NOT tank)

I don't think you are taking into account the number of people who are not trying for nor gearing up to do PvP or vet dungeons etc.

Hi. I'm one of them. I have no interest in those but I have a lot of interest in the quests, most of the achievements, crafting, faffing about with my houses etc.

I'm playing the game "properly" when I can avail myself of the content I want and not croak.

Not everyone plays an MMO to compete.

-signed,

Content PermaNoob

So you enjoy a game without player risk or failure states? You do not want a game, you want an "experience"

I have no idea what you're trying to insinuate with this comment so I can't really debate it with you. But I can say this, I enjoy this game a lot. That I don't want adrenaline pumping "excitement" does not mean that I "do not want a game...", it simply means that I enjoy THIS game pretty much as is.

Because when a game fails to engage the player in ways that incentivize overcoming challenge with clear failure and victory states, it becomes more of an interactive experience with no risk/reward dynamic.

The argument here is that in this game such a dynamic exists in end game / pvp which is such a paltry amount of the games overall package.

It has nothing to do with epeen elitism and everything to do with wanting a game that does not coddle players, and actually respects their intellegence while creating an enviroment that lends itself to the entirety of the game without sacrificing integrity.

Having an accessible ie without challenge, overland experience solely for story delivery is not some kind of mandatory rule. Creating an overland experience that delivers on the narrative front while pushing players to overcome mild odds and teach them aspects of the game that creates in them a desire to test themselves in more difficult environments like dungeons or trials.

It is the game design ideology of "here, keep playing this if you are comfortable, we wont make it hard for you, so stay in your comfort zone and enjoy the content"

Vs

"Here, we are going to provide you the tools and lessons, via early progression game play so you can learn and improve. This empowerment will hopefully encourage you to step out of your comfort zone and rise to the fair challenge we present you with. Resulting in higher engagement overall"

Some people want their mmos al la carte in that each different type of content can be isolated from one another and be exclusively "enough" for a given player. Others want the game in its entirety to lend itself to all aspects of it in some way or another.

Having cleared cwc and vvardenfell recently on a new character without spending cp and only using looted and queat reward gear, i do not believe the difficulty is in a good place in this game in a good spot. And would like to think a little nore highly of the capabilities of your average 16+ year old gamer to be able to handle a little more than what we currently have as eso overland content.

Correction: It fails to engage -you-.

REPEAT AFTER ME SUBJECT 2045. I AM NOT ALL PLAYERS. I AM NOT ALLL PLAYERS.

Sigh.... why are you even here man. Honeslty, are you even contributing to anything right now? Spare me the caps lock please.

I'm here because you apparently cant understand that people have different viewpoints than yours, and that's the core of your issue.

Honestly, this thread dont contribute bugger all aside from the demands of a few entitled souls reguarding something that will not satisfy them even if it is implimented.

Doctordarkspawn

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

After reading both sides of the argument and a variety of possible solutions, the one I like best is the suggestion for some kind of player debuff that is only applied by the player themselves and thus adjusts their stats and the amount of damage they take while increasing reward possibilities (higher percentages for higher tiered rewards). Tying it to some kind of story/achievements may also make people more likely to participate and work towards being able to do that mode. Some people still won't be happy with this because its purposefully 'cripples' their character but it seems to be the best compromise between providing more of a challenge for those who want it while incentivizing doing so for the added rewards/achievements without forcing it on those who are satisfied.

Why does their have to be xtra rewards though? Shouldnt the reward be that you get to play the game without falling asleep? Players will then think they need to do the hard mode because all their friends are, and will complain its too hard. I dont think there needs to be any incentive or extra reward beyond the fact that players would have more options.

Without getting into the difficulties of implementing a difficulty slider or toggle in an open level scaled environment without mob tagging lockouts or seperate instances, creating arbitrary difficulty spikes just for the sake of rarely work. Players by nature will always take the path of least resistence for equitable rewards. There needs to be a measurable incentive, otherwise engagement falls flat.

I hear what you are saying, but if that were true the title of the thread would be “more rewards” not “harder game”. It would be extremely shallow of someone to deny fun engaging content simply because there is no reward, in my opinion. Entertainment is the reward.

I agree with this. I don't need greater rewards for my effort. I just want to have fun playing the game.

And in order to have that fun you need to be above people in some way.

Or you need to be forced into a playstyle in order to succeed.

These are the only two things I can think of where a arbitrary raising of damage the enemies deal, and a lessening of damage you deal, will do that would satisfy someone like you. And if either of these are what you want, you could just as easily find another game for that.

Sidenote: Herculean organizational skills. No, you just need people who know they're buisness and know the fights. There's raid guilds for that. It sounds like you've been found wanting when it comes to the -actually- hard content and now want something you can hoist above your head and shout about how others are inferior. And I'm betting that's all this is.

Otherwise you wouldn't be crying about experiencing the story. Because you can do that.

Kram8ion

I'm getting the idea that some want harder overland content which is perfectly fine to request but due to One Tamriel is probably impossible so going naked is an option but sustain would be awful and I agree but doesn't the bad sustain that comes with being naked also be under the harder conditions

MLGProPlayer

Kram8ion wrote: »

I'm getting the idea that some want harder overland content which is perfectly fine to request but due to One Tamriel is probably impossible so going naked is an option but sustain would be awful and I agree but doesn't the bad sustain that comes with being naked also be under the harder conditions

Craglorn has easy and hard delves/dungeons, so it's definitely possible in One Tamriel.

Another way to do it is to have normal and vet versions of all instances (like delves, public dungeons, and quest instances). These are instanced already, so allowing you to set difficulty would be incredibly easy to implement.

Seri

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Kram8ion wrote: »

I'm getting the idea that some want harder overland content which is perfectly fine to request but due to One Tamriel is probably impossible so going naked is an option but sustain would be awful and I agree but doesn't the bad sustain that comes with being naked also be under the harder conditions

Craglorn has easy and hard delves/dungeons, so it's definitely possible in One Tamriel.

They're not split into 'normal' and 'vet' versions that have two difficulty toggles though - they're the 'group' vs 'solo' delves instead.

Another way to do it is to have normal and vet versions of all instances (like delves, public dungeons, and quest instances). These are instanced already, so allowing you to set difficulty would be incredibly easy to implement.

That'd be nice to see but I'm not sure 'every instance' needs to be tackled to start with. Just the public dungeons and the quest/story instances (hell, even just future story instances or DLC only if the quick balance check required is too much effort for all the pre-existing story content). Public and delve dungeons should (although it is ZOS...) be relatively well balanced compared to each-other so the vet mode toggle scaling should be relatively consistent.

idk

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just kidding. I see a lot of folks saying the game's overland content difficulty is "just right".

LOL. Yea, there is good HM content in the game for those of us that are interested in a challenge. Overland is not the place for it.

Yet overland is 95% of the game.

Running the same dungeons over and over again is boring. Vet players should be able to experience story content every now and then too.

@MLGProPlayer

Exactly. Considering it is probably much less than 5% of the game that has cleared all trial HMs (not including vAS HM0 it seems clear that overland is as it should be.

Good point.

Oh, and no one is holding back vet players from experiencing the story content. Nothing at all.

Vet trials require herculean organization skills. You need to make sure that 12 people can stay on the computer for a few hours as you work through the mechanics of the trial. That's why so few people run them. It's the same reason no one did group content in Craglorn (forming groups takes a lot of effort).

No they do not. The only thing that comes close to what you are describing is true progression for a group.

If you want challenge do not balk or make excuses for not doing the challenging content. Forming groups, when in raid guilds, is not that hard. I have done random group trials constantly, even HM. Someone just says they are putting a group together and we raid. It is what those who want PvE challenge do.

Tinus_92

Try playing ESO on a lvl 40 wearing lvl 20 gear without CP, without food, using random green gearsets you received overland. Then the overworld definitely is not easy. I experienced this while levelling an alt account myself.

When you're near the cp cap, using food, have optimalized gear, yes, mobs burn away in front of you from just using elemental blockade.

Regarding veteran trials, those who claiming these can be cleared with randoms, this is only partially true. Most 'randoms' here in good running random vet groups are usually friends, guildies (even if talking about the 500-man ones) or other connections from players who do possess a certain knowledge already to clear such content. If you put 12 randoms together who all cleared vHRC or even vMOL/vHOF, you most likely will complete it with such group too. It you put 12 fully randomized cp 160+ people together, of which half barely got any trial knowledge, you most likely will not complete any veteran trials. The only trial which usually is 'doable' for less experienced players is vAA when good coördination is being used.

Niobium

I do like that people took their armour off to challenge themselves in fighting overland mobs - then complained that it was too hard to juggle their resources.

So.. basically.. harder, challenging content was achieved and then complained about.

All in all it really doesn't matter. ZOS has the metrics of 1T and pre-1T and there's a reason all that was changed. No one likes dying to mudcrabs or having 10 minute fights with wolves.

Now - if all those saying they want harder overland content said something more along the lines of "different areas, different instances, more content" then this would be a whole different discussion (as a couple did mention, instanced HM delves etc).

But trying to increase the difficulty in storymode is a never going to fly. The only way to do that is to adjust yourself accordingly and then not be upset when you can't manage your resources with no armour.

Serjustin19

nnargun

Again guys. I think for most people complaining about overland being too easy it's really a lack of solo content. Because as soon as overland is too easy there is only MA. Personally I want more of that. No matter where it comes from. All other endgame content requires me to group which I personally don't want all the time.
This is not about being wrong or right. I love this game, I play it a lot, solo and in groups. I don't wanna take anything from anyone. I just want MORE. How can anyone argue with this?
Maybe it's not possible to make the overland difficulty right for everyone but what the heck is the problem with discussing it? Why does everyone feel personally attacked all the time?

[Edit to remove bait]

Kel

nnargun wrote: »

Again guys. I think for most people complaining about overland being too easy it's really a lack of solo content. Because as soon as overland is too easy there is only MA. Personally I want more of that. No matter where it comes from. All other endgame content requires me to group which I personally don't want all the time.
This is not about being wrong or right. I love this game, I play it a lot, solo and in groups. I don't wanna take anything from anyone. I just want MORE. How can anyone argue with this?
Maybe it's not possible to make the overland difficulty right for everyone but what the heck is the problem with discussing it? Why does everyone feel personally attacked all the time?

I hardly think anyone is saying more content is a bad thing. I see players wanting a thing, and arguing how to get there without ruining it for other players. Some want it at any cost, some look for a compromise, while some don't want it at all.
It's a forum on the internet. What do you honestly expect? This is a place for argument (Hopefully constructive. I'm more concerned about people saying you're not constructive because you simply don't agree with them.) and discussion. Discussion doesn't always mean agreement.

nnargun

Discussions on these forums are rarely constructive because people are always afraid that something will be taken from them. And other people fuel those feelings obviously. Hence all the censorship in the other overland thread. I don't need mindless agreement. But I also don't need stupid close minded comments all the time. If you can deal with stupidity, fine. I can't, so I'm out.

Kel

nnargun wrote: »

Discussions on these forums are rarely constructive because people are always afraid that something will be taken from them. And other people fuel those feelings obviously. Hence all the censorship in the other overland thread. I don't need mindless agreement. But I also don't need stupid close minded comments all the time. If you can deal with stupidity, fine. I can't, so I'm out.

I'm with you to a point. Some people enjoy being *******'s....never understood it, never will. But you have to know coming to a forum is like that. No matter what the topic or where you find it. Anonymity leads to a certain toxicity for some people. They enjoy it for some reason beyond understanding. But, that's the reality when you come to a forum.

JiKama

It is quite sad when you're doing a questline just to 2 shot the bad guy/gal. I would like for the questing to be like it was back at launch. The troll boss in the rift questline being tough and require some kiting around. Or my experience fighting the Fighters Guild Titan as a Vampire Stamblade at launch. I struggled with that so much XD

Joosef_Kivikilpi

I can genuinely say the difficulty of Craglorn quests in instanced dungeons with small groups was amazing. Getting killed by bosses for the first time in weeks was amazing with a friend. It was a competition with a friend to see who had the lowest death tally at the end of the dungeon. It was a blast. I miss having a challenge playing through the base game.

I mean... whatever happened to that first Fighter's Guild quest boss from original ESO? Gah, I have PTSD from her! haha Now I can slap her around with a shield bash and win.

exeeter702

Motherball wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

After reading both sides of the argument and a variety of possible solutions, the one I like best is the suggestion for some kind of player debuff that is only applied by the player themselves and thus adjusts their stats and the amount of damage they take while increasing reward possibilities (higher percentages for higher tiered rewards). Tying it to some kind of story/achievements may also make people more likely to participate and work towards being able to do that mode. Some people still won't be happy with this because its purposefully 'cripples' their character but it seems to be the best compromise between providing more of a challenge for those who want it while incentivizing doing so for the added rewards/achievements without forcing it on those who are satisfied.

Why does their have to be xtra rewards though? Shouldnt the reward be that you get to play the game without falling asleep? Players will then think they need to do the hard mode because all their friends are, and will complain its too hard. I dont think there needs to be any incentive or extra reward beyond the fact that players would have more options.

Without getting into the difficulties of implementing a difficulty slider or toggle in an open level scaled environment without mob tagging lockouts or seperate instances, creating arbitrary difficulty spikes just for the sake of rarely work. Players by nature will always take the path of least resistence for equitable rewards. There needs to be a measurable incentive, otherwise engagement falls flat.

I hear what you are saying about the difficulty for the sake of it, but if the least resistance statement were true the title of the thread would be “more rewards” not “harder game”. It would be extremely shallow of someone to deny fun engaging content simply because there is no reward, in my opinion. Entertainment is the reward.

Its a natural law of video games really.. the majority of players will not bother with facing more pushback from a game if there is no incentive or yeild. That has been proven time and time again across multiple games over the years.

Not to sound rude, but "entertainment is its own reward" is an outlook that find to be a bit naive. If that were the case, then self imposed handicaps to raise your own personal stakes would be enough. You might have a small dedicated group of the player base partake in hardmode overland content but thst would be the exception to the rule. Even a title attached to clearing the various zones on a raised difficulty would be enough of an incentive mind you, but there needs to be a carrot at the end of the stick no matter what.

exeeter702

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

.....

exeeter702 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

The fact that the overland content is this easy just makes noobs stay noobs because they think they are doing well since they are fine completing all the quests and tiny dungeons etc. The amount of people who never look up for build is rather scary tbh because sometimes you need people who have max CP and still cant play the game properly (we had a guy join trial using inner fire as spammable... he was NOT tank)

I don't think you are taking into account the number of people who are not trying for nor gearing up to do PvP or vet dungeons etc.

Hi. I'm one of them. I have no interest in those but I have a lot of interest in the quests, most of the achievements, crafting, faffing about with my houses etc.

I'm playing the game "properly" when I can avail myself of the content I want and not croak.

Not everyone plays an MMO to compete.

-signed,

Content PermaNoob

So you enjoy a game without player risk or failure states? You do not want a game, you want an "experience"

I have no idea what you're trying to insinuate with this comment so I can't really debate it with you. But I can say this, I enjoy this game a lot. That I don't want adrenaline pumping "excitement" does not mean that I "do not want a game...", it simply means that I enjoy THIS game pretty much as is.

Because when a game fails to engage the player in ways that incentivize overcoming challenge with clear failure and victory states, it becomes more of an interactive experience with no risk/reward dynamic.

The argument here is that in this game such a dynamic exists in end game / pvp which is such a paltry amount of the games overall package.

It has nothing to do with epeen elitism and everything to do with wanting a game that does not coddle players, and actually respects their intellegence while creating an enviroment that lends itself to the entirety of the game without sacrificing integrity.

Having an accessible ie without challenge, overland experience solely for story delivery is not some kind of mandatory rule. Creating an overland experience that delivers on the narrative front while pushing players to overcome mild odds and teach them aspects of the game that creates in them a desire to test themselves in more difficult environments like dungeons or trials.

It is the game design ideology of "here, keep playing this if you are comfortable, we wont make it hard for you, so stay in your comfort zone and enjoy the content"

Vs

"Here, we are going to provide you the tools and lessons, via early progression game play so you can learn and improve. This empowerment will hopefully encourage you to step out of your comfort zone and rise to the fair challenge we present you with. Resulting in higher engagement overall"

Some people want their mmos al la carte in that each different type of content can be isolated from one another and be exclusively "enough" for a given player. Others want the game in its entirety to lend itself to all aspects of it in some way or another.

Having cleared cwc and vvardenfell recently on a new character without spending cp and only using looted and queat reward gear, i do not believe the difficulty is in a good place in this game in a good spot. And would like to think a little nore highly of the capabilities of your average 16+ year old gamer to be able to handle a little more than what we currently have as eso overland content.

Correction: It fails to engage -you-.

REPEAT AFTER ME SUBJECT 2045. I AM NOT ALL PLAYERS. I AM NOT ALLL PLAYERS.

Sigh.... why are you even here man. Honeslty, are you even contributing to anything right now? Spare me the caps lock please.

I'm here because you apparently cant understand that people have different viewpoints than yours, and that's the core of your issue.

On the contrary actually...

Bryanonymous

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

After reading both sides of the argument and a variety of possible solutions, the one I like best is the suggestion for some kind of player debuff that is only applied by the player themselves and thus adjusts their stats and the amount of damage they take while increasing reward possibilities (higher percentages for higher tiered rewards). Tying it to some kind of story/achievements may also make people more likely to participate and work towards being able to do that mode. Some people still won't be happy with this because its purposefully 'cripples' their character but it seems to be the best compromise between providing more of a challenge for those who want it while incentivizing doing so for the added rewards/achievements without forcing it on those who are satisfied.

Why does their have to be xtra rewards though? Shouldnt the reward be that you get to play the game without falling asleep? Players will then think they need to do the hard mode because all their friends are, and will complain its too hard. I dont think there needs to be any incentive or extra reward beyond the fact that players would have more options.

Without getting into the difficulties of implementing a difficulty slider or toggle in an open level scaled environment without mob tagging lockouts or seperate instances, creating arbitrary difficulty spikes just for the sake of rarely work. Players by nature will always take the path of least resistence for equitable rewards. There needs to be a measurable incentive, otherwise engagement falls flat.

I hear what you are saying about the difficulty for the sake of it, but if the least resistance statement were true the title of the thread would be “more rewards” not “harder game”. It would be extremely shallow of someone to deny fun engaging content simply because there is no reward, in my opinion. Entertainment is the reward.

Its a natural law of video games really.. the majority of players will not bother with facing more pushback from a game if there is no incentive or yeild. That has been proven time and time again across multiple games over the years.

Not to sound rude, but entertainment is its own reward is a bit of a naive statement. If that were the case, then self imposed handicaps to raise your own personal stakes would be enough. You might have a small dedicated group of the player base partake in hardmode overland content but thst would be the exception to the rule. Even a title attached to clearing the various zones on a raised difficulty would be enough of an incentive mind you, but there needs to be a carrot at the end of the stick no matter what.

Maybe not enough for you or some others, but I have no problem taking the path less traveled. In single player games, I play on hard. Do I get anything for it? A sense of achievement is the reward. It’s the same reason I use minimal UI in this game and never try to figure out what the meta is. Satisfaction is subjective, and some people don’t know how to enjoy what they have.

Btw. I took my armor off. Made enemies harder. Not impossible. It’s also easy to roleplay into the story. Maybe armor is heavy and only used when necessary... who knows. At the end of the day, the game is what you make of it. If people need a cookie every time they accomplish something, perhaps the problem is with the person, not the game.